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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Dreamepitaph said:
Yes i understand. But filia, fortune, band, Pw, val arguably have the same deal. The only thing i can imagine is making lvl3 a command grab but why?
I wouldn't say that for Filia because her level 3 has its uses:

6:05 just in case it didn't work
 
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Swiftfox-Dash said:
My stupid idea of the moment is still that the Goodfella's explosion being like Lenny's explosion so Peacock can follow up afterwards.
My only ideas for Goodfellas/Lenny hits are as follows (and don't change gameplay)
- to ignite enemies who are hit by it (like parasoul's tears)
- maybe spruce up the animation a bit? compared to the concussive force portrayed when eliza lands her lvl3, peacock's supers with explosion effects seem to lack impact. maybe toss in a shockwave or something for dramatic effect?
 
What if Peacock had a way to do 6.2k from a regular throw at full undizzy?

It sounds like something Double would get a lot of use out of, but Peacock probably needs it more what with her terrible meter gain and awful damage outside of level 3.
 
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The only level 3 that's kind of bad is valentines imo. Squigly used to have a pretty bleh one, but I think its pretty good now.

I still think Eliza's level 3 does too much fully scaled. It does iirc just as much as doubles, but you can combo off it. That's kind of unfair! I know she spends meter with sek and stuff, but she can build meter really well without sek and if she has 3 bars she can spend some of it and build it again in a combo.

Peacock is alright how she is now. I still think Fukua's MK and HK shadow should be a tad bit faster :(
 
Is HK shadow really that useless? It seems like it can be used to set some shit up. It is like +20 on block or something, right?

I mean, you guys would know more than me for sure as I don't play her, but +20 on block doesn't seem all that awful even if its use is kind of niche.
 
CaioLugon said:
Video
Lol thank you, even with max undizzy goodfellas is still outclassed. The only effective use it may have outside of trolling is that you can potentially kill a character and not have them build meter for the next incoming character. But I have only intentionally done that once. Leaving an incoming double with no meter.... still lost anyways from what I recall lol.
 
Spencer said:
Is HK shadow really that useless? It seems like it can be used to set some shit up. It is like +20 on block or something, right?

I mean, you guys would know more than me for sure as I don't play her, but +20 on block doesn't seem all that awful even if its use is kind of niche.

It is when you get pushed block away. You kinda have to be really close to your opponent or have an assist to let you get it out in a range you want it to be in without getting push blocked. It's too slow to use it from that range though, and its really really REALLY hard to hit anyone with it.

In combos you would use it to boost your damage by a TON, but every shadow does the same amount of damage now. :(
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
Lol thank you, even with max undizzy goodfellas is still outclassed. The only effective use it may have outside of trolling is that you can potentially kill a character and not have them build meter for the next incoming character. But I have only intentionally done that once. Leaving an incoming double with no meter.... still lost anyways from what I recall lol.
another fun thing you can do is throw, H item(dont charge), cancel into lenny, argus, H item charge, argus, release item for 6.6k or spend another bar on argus for like 8k, this way it makes sure you are at stage 3 at the end, in the video it depends on how early you release the item.
 
Peacock has a level 4 that's called lenny into level 3 and it's actually amazing
 
OK So maybe make peacock level three do 7K? Or command throw?
 
And I'm just here like Peacock is fine as is and enjoy having a troll lvl 3.

Only change I would maybe want is to have qcb+pp be a grab command that is techable but goes straight into lvl 3 if it connects on a staggered opponent or something.

Edit: also ya Val's lvl 3 is booty when scaled.
 
RemiKz said:
And I'm just here like Peacock is fine as is and enjoy having a troll lvl 3.

Only change I would maybe want is to have qcb+pp be a grab command that is techable but goes straight into lvl 3 if it connects on a staggered opponent or something.

Edit: also ya Val's lvl 3 is booty when scaled.

I'd only accept a command grab level 3 if you lose all your meter if it whiffs. Otherwise bleh
 
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dekillsage said:
The only level 3 that's kind of bad is valentines imo. Squigly used to have a pretty bleh one, but I think its pretty good now.

I still think Eliza's level 3 does too much fully scaled. It does iirc just as much as doubles, but you can combo off it. That's kind of unfair! I know she spends meter with sek and stuff, but she can build meter really well without sek and if she has 3 bars she can spend some of it and build it again in a combo.

Peacock is alright how she is now. I still think Fukua's MK and HK shadow should be a tad bit faster :(

New max scaling Khapri Sun is fine imo, just is one of the best supers in the game though; if used as reversal the followup is scaled almost to max already, she only gets followups in corner now. Also her only true get off reversal from midair upclose+above.

Peacock level 3 is by no means the best, but not the worst either. Level 3 is also 1 input, so maybe the ease of its damage should be considered as well? (also won't be potentially stopped by the timer with low time on the clock?)

For discussion and consideration (I think these are all max scaling just tested them) in 1.0 damage scaling
Filia 2137
Fortune 2250
Eliza 3747 (New)
Squigly 1976
Beowulf (subject to change obviously) 2812 (the animated one)
Peacock 6225
Painwheel 2598
Cerebella 2475
Valentine 2250
Parasoul 3306
Double 3690
Big Band 3242
Fukua 2295
 
I don't agree. When the super corner carries from midscreen and you get a full combo off it and it does more damage than doubles when they're both fully scaled that's bs imo.

Edit: also wtf? Do people not realize how good st.mp -> horus is an an anti air reversal? come on guys. Her defense isn't that bad
 
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dekillsage said:
What about poor Valentines level 3?!
At least you can dhc into it, not everyone can dhc into lenny > argus
 
CaioLugon said:
At least you can dhc into it, not everyone can dhc into lenny > argus

You can dhc into bomb argus argus what's the problem?

edit: that's what you said. YEAH WTF GUYS BUFF VALS LEVEL 3
 
I meant buff others to closer match other level 3s rather than nerf the higher ones, since that might justify nerfing double's lvl 3 which I dont think should/want to happen.
 
cloudKing211 said:
I meant buff others to closer match other level 3s rather than nerf the higher ones, since that might justify nerfing double's lvl 3 which I dont think should/want to happen.

Other level 3's have uses outside of combo enders. Fukua only hits one person but is super fast and is a hit grab, Fortunes hits in a lot of different spots and is a hit grab, Parasouls can be cancelled and start pressure, Squiglys controls the screen and keeps her safe, Painwheels does a lot of damage and you can combo off it, Doubles is a combo ender and a decent reversal(can't combo off it other than car), Eliza's does the same thing doubles does but you CAN combo off it (and it does more damage), Vals is pointless, etc

So yeah no don't buff the others damage for no reason.
 
cloudKing211 said:
Uh doesn't the fact that you grabbed them reset the scaling?
Then it's not at max scaling

combo > stagger assist > lv3 is a thing, techable but still a thing
 
CaioLugon said:
Then it's not at max scaling

combo > stagger assist > lv3 is a thing, techable but still a thing
Just use LP Bang.
 
Elizas does more at max scaling, so as a dhc or reversal it doesnt do as much (Her followup without meter is limited to 7.5k after a reversal level 3). A reversal level 3, that can only be continued in the corner is not crazy or overpowered. Everyone's level 3 has a weakness, but not utility. So that might be reasoning for a buff to val's level3. The reason why its not more is probably bc of the ability of having vial damage active during the animation, but that should have changed alongside the encore vial change.

CaioLugon said:
Then it's not at max scaling

combo > stagger assist > lv3 is a thing, techable but still a thing

Alright didn't think comboing into grab would matter here, since its techable. Should that be accepted as a reason for a buff though? When the peacock player knows, or should know that from that setup multi argus or argus/lenny would be the better option?

Also is it possible to dhc from it? Just wondering?
 
Spencer said:
Remember, it has armor too.

I'm pretty sure it's sometimes/often safe as an assist punish? Since it's invincible and flies all over the screen through the point character on hit
 
cloudKing211 said:
Elizas does more at max scaling, so as a dhc or reversal it doesnt do as much (Her followup without meter is limited to 7.5k after a reversal level 3).

Yes it does....
 
Would it be possible to separate the icons for block punishing or whiff punishing moves with counterhitting moves out of startup? I can't tell if some of my punishes are actual punishes or they're mashing right after.
 
cloudKing211 said:
Also is it possible to dhc from it?
Only before she stops kicking the opponent

cloudKing211 said:
When the peacock player knows, or should know that from that setup multi argus or argus/lenny would be the better option?
That's the thing, in a real game there's NEVER any instance where lv3 would be a better choice as it is now. Having a useless lv3 just feels bad, it rather have it nerfed and have at least ONE use for it then never using it at all.
 
AOW_Yomabuddy said:
Would it be possible to separate the icons for block punishing or whiff punishing moves with counterhitting moves out of startup? I can't tell if some of my punishes are actual punishes or they're mashing right after.
Not easily because those phases aren't marked. :^S

========

PLEASE STOP WITH THE IDIOTIC SUGGESTIONS thank you (@Spencer yours isn't idiotic, we can try it but I'm not sure people will like it).

cloudKing211 said:
Horus divekick animation reused as a divekick that restands is sort of what I meant. For situations like max range j.hp, and j.mk. Also beowulf s.hk for upping damage at earlier undizzy levels and allowing better damage before oki, whick might give fugazi more use. If thats too good, oh well, dont put it in
With how good j.HP is I'm sorta okay with her not being able to convert super easily off max range vs high air (cuz max range vs ground/low air you can dash in LP just fine).
And you can end barrel loops, which don't use OTG, with Fugazi. Plus you can now use Monster as a setup afterward (Fugazi-step-step-Monster-oki).
What's the giant disconnect between why you think she needs buffs and I don't?
Are we going to suggest Lv1 catheads again next? :^P

Dreamepitaph said:
Yes i understand. But filia, fortune, band, Pw, val arguably have the same deal. The only thing i can imagine is making lvl3 a command grab but why?
Filia's does 7k on counterhit and allows followups in the corner, and does more damage by itself than any combination of 3 other supers except ground Gregor, 1-hit ground Gregor, Fenrir, which is position specific.
Fortune's beats armor, hits nearly everywhere, gets your head back and allows OTGs into the corner.
PW's has armor, is unblockable for a good distance, does really good damage on counterhit, does more than 2 Threshers and a Crawl, and does extra if you have Hatred Guard damage stored.
Band's does at least 4k min scaled.
Val's is a little more useful in Beta since it won't go past the opponent, hits very high up and very far away, and does more damage than any other 3 supers she can put together except a Counter with a full combo.

Peacock's Lv3 does 6.2k, it's one of the most damaging attacks in the game. The real "problem" with Peacock's is that Argus does too much damage and allows followups that include Lv3 item drops, but heaven forbid I change THAT any more, the amount of shit from entitled players would be through the roof. In the Beta with the reduced scaled damage on Argus, Lv3 does a comparable amount to triple Argus off throw.
 
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Mike, I'd like to know if my throw scaling suggestion was stupid, or not?
 
Yeah I wasn't sure if it would be good or not. I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head that it fucked up specifically, but it could be awkward as hell for sure. It could potentially be awful if you are doing a lot of down to back movement and happen to hit a kick though...
 
Mike_Z said:
Not easily because those phases aren't marked. :^S

Val's is a little more useful in Beta since it won't go past the opponent, hits very high up and very far away, and does more damage than any other 3 supers she can put together except a Counter with a full combo.

Does it have more hitstop now? And does the fact that level 3 does more than 2 scalpel supers + ekg is not very fitting when its damage is still low imo. Is buffing val level 3's damage that unhinging? Even allowing val to dhc out of the last hit would make it more useful.
 
ClarenceMage said:
Mike, I'd like to know if my throw scaling suggestion was stupid, or not?
No, it wasn't. Though damage is still damage, and upback loses to any low, and I'm not sure what I'd do for command grabs...
 
@Spencer
hi, about H shadow. Its not the fact its +20 on block but you're not given an incentive to use it. You're dealing with the slowest overhead in the game tied with pummel horse iirc. The damage is the same a
Spencer said:
Is HK shadow really that useless? It seems like it can be used to set some shit up. It is like +20 on block or something, right?

I mean, you guys would know more than me for sure as I don't play her, but +20 on block doesn't seem all that awful even if its use is kind of niche.
Hi, please don't take anything i say seriously. and PLEASE correct anything.
Proper name: Forever a Clone H
Properties: Overhead
Frame startup:30F
Distance: about 3.5 grid blocks
Special notes: in a sassy fashion her hand sways, signaling it going high.
Damage: same as all other shadows:750 on counter hit it does about 1125 which is the same any other CH shadow which i am now testing.

Breakdown
In terms of frames its the slowest overhead in SG. average overhead is 24F atleast(do not quote me on this).
even big band has a faster overhead and even cerebella has a faster overhead (that can be easily combo'd into just like H shadow). its very telegraphed and its 30F.

Analysis
Attempts at using it is very hard to use at mid-close range against majority of the cast you will get CH combo'd. what really discourages using H shadow is that not only is it really hard to figure out how and when to use it but also when to use it. on a solo scenario when fukua is a alone using H shadow at mid-close range is questionable at most points when you're better off just doing M shadow or L shadow or just waiting for your fireball and use ground H fireball. at close range you need to be at a very close and dangerous proximity for you to use H shadow which can be mashed, poked, grabbed out of if you feeling like you know the opponent. the times you use H shadow you can even up-back the shadow(chicken block) and go from there. if you do hit H shadow you just worked up all the effort of trying to use overhead as a mixup tool and even a pressure tool to just get a 750 starter. depending on your distance and even the player it doesn't take much to identify the shadow and start upbacking which doesn't do much

The main use is mainly a combo extender that will also save otg and allow you to get a 7K(being very vague on the damage itself cause it doesn't matter).

there is no incentive to looking at H shadow for much other than combo extending for one of the more damaging combos. cause all of the trouble and trying to set up the mixup or any other application of using H shadow (though thank you @Mr Peck i will test the stuff you posted when i get back to playing) when you can just c.lk, stagger your L shadow. or do a tick grab.
 
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