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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Valentine crosses tho.
Man, I love those.
I almost feel like a retail Fukua.
 
Mike_Z said:
I would advise not working on a guide until things exist in retail, myself. I can be a fickle mistress, or something.

In seriousness, how are they working out? I've been on too much Beowulf lately to remember.
To keep it brief.

Fukua's still limber. if you mess up a fireball then its become easier to get in on fukua which makes sense. she's still limber and i think for most of what fukua's do now and people have problems fighting her. i think that some players just need to sit back and learn how she operates in the air.
because ground fireballs have +5f recovery so if you super jump you're kinda in there.

If she does Air fireballs she's committed to that action she can't do something stupid like an air shadow. and if she reads wrong on her fireball vector then she has a 40f recovery at least.

I think she's fine. BUT if you feel like doing anymore changes then i'll just continue trying it out for atleast a day or two and try to play against all the cast and then give my feedback as i usually try to do.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
BUT if you feel like doing anymore changes then i'll just continue trying it out for atleast a day or two and try to play against all the cast and then give my feedback as i usually try to do.
I dunno that I do for now because I gotta look at other stuff, but I appreciate the summary AND the levelheaded approach. It's nice!
 
Can Eliza's mp upperkhat more consistently combo into the hp version? I've been trying to use the mp version as a get of me because it has a better hitbox than the lp version but it doesn't consistently combo into hp upperkhat when used this way.
 
Adeveis said:
Can Eliza's mp upperkhat more consistently combo into the hp version? I've been trying to use the mp version as a get of me because it has a better hitbox than the lp version but it doesn't consistently combo into hp upperkhat when used this way.
That's cuz it's farther out from you, and the LP version is for up-close. So no, MP won't be improving to the point where you want to skip LP entirely. (^.^)
 
Can Fukua M Drill get something unique that doesn't break her, like wall bounce for cool combos?
 
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Mike_Z said:
That's cuz it's farther out from you, and the LP version is for up-close. So no, MP won't be improving to the point where you want to skip LP entirely. (^.^)
It would be nice if it could at least be good enough that s.hpx2xx623mp~hp didn't sometimes fail on Squigly (sometimes, she'll fall in such a way that the HP won't hit her).

EDIT: Wow, that wasn't clear at all. I mean, the 623mp will hit, but then Squigly will sometimes magically fall in just a way that the hp follow-up whiffs entirely.
 
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Cynical said:
It would be nice if it could at least be good enough that s.hpx2xx623mp~hp didn't sometimes fail on Squigly (sometimes, she'll fall in such a way that the HP won't hit her).
EDIT: Wow, that wasn't clear at all. I mean, the 623mp will hit, but then Squigly will sometimes magically fall in just a way that the hp follow-up whiffs entirely.
Nah I gotcha, but does that happen at some distance where LMH won't work? Cuz again, I don't want to make M take L's place.

Unrelated, does it bother anyone that Beowulf's c.MK won't OTG assists? It's not easy to fix, but I can maybe fix it.
 
Mike_Z said:
Nah I gotcha, but does that happen at some distance where LMH won't work? Cuz again, I don't want to make M take L's place.
I'd have to go test more to tell you for certain (I'll fire up training mode shortly, but I've got Cruciamentum's "Engulfed in Desolation" blasting over my speakers right now and don't want to interrupt it), but I seem to recall there being a spot sort of "between" M and H for Squigly (far in M's range; M will hit here, H will whiff) where MH won't work, because Squigly will fall weirdly.

Even if it is "always possible" with LMH, though, 5hpx2xx623mp~hp works 100% on every other character in the game (well, of course, unless you're far enough that you just need to go straight 623hp); having this one exception would be annoying anyways. I understand wanting them different for neutral, but is it really that important that they're all useful in combos?
 
eh... i don't really use c.MK to otg assists, only on the point character that i'm smacking so i can go into the BullDog finisher. so i don't think it should otg assists.

Now onto a Beo question: Why does Beo's wulf cannon give out so much meter? in a small BnB (without the Headbutts in grabmode) he can gain about .8 ish of a bar. it's kinda good. Also if you block one of the wulf cannons you can cancel it into it's downward direction so that it can be safe up to +7 frames sometimes. will this be changed so that it will be less positive on block or is it kinda all ready set in stone?
 
Cynical said:
Even if it is "always possible" with LMH, though, 5hpx2xx623mp~hp works 100% on every other character in the game (well, of course, unless you're far enough that you just need to go straight 623hp); having this one exception would be annoying anyways. I understand wanting them different for neutral, but is it really that important that they're all useful in combos?
Well if LMH is always possible then that also works on every other character, no? Just to ask.
And it doesn't bother me to fix this exception (but I need a reliable test case to fix it!), it's that if I make M-H work *better* then L becomes not as useful as M at neutral either because M-H will also work. See? I mean maybe the solution there is that M/H become not invincible but that also kinda sucks.

Ninja said:
eh... i don't really use c.MK to otg assists, only on the point character that i'm smacking so i can go into the BullDog finisher. so i don't think it should otg assists.
That's not what I meant. It would not grab them, but if an assist is down on the floor it won't hit them at ALL. It's kinda weird for doublesnaps, though I guess that only matters to me right now because you all don't have his snapback yet. :^)

Ninja said:
Now onto a Beo question: Why does Beo's wulf cannon give out so much meter?
Oh, Tackle indeed isn't supposed to give the extra meter on each hit. Thanks!
The advantage on block is likely staying because he has no actual blockstring into Tackle, although it could stand to be smaller on the downward versions.
 
Ninja said:
eh... i don't really use c.MK to otg assists, only on the point character that i'm smacking so i can go into the BullDog finisher. so i don't think it should otg assists.

Now onto a Beo question: Why does Beo's wulf cannon give out so much meter? in a small BnB (without the Headbutts in grabmode) he can gain about .8 ish of a bar. it's kinda good. Also if you block one of the wulf cannons you can cancel it into it's downward direction so that it can be safe up to +7 frames sometimes. will this be changed so that it will be less positive on block or is it kinda all ready set in stone?

I dunno it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I mean Beowulf doesn't have a double jump and doesn't have an air dash he needs some kind of way to get in that's not horribly unsafe.

Its usually +4 or so, sometimes +6 if you get it really low.
 
Mike_Z said:
Oh, Tackle indeed isn't supposed to give the extra meter on each hit. Thanks!
The advantage on block is likely staying because he has no actual blockstring into Tackle, although it could stand to be smaller on the downward versions.

mmmhhh. okay. I'll try to see if there is anything else that needs looking at. Ta
 
Mike_Z said:
Well if LMH is always possible then that also works on every other character, no? Just to ask.
And it doesn't bother me to fix this exception (but I need a reliable test case to fix it!), it's that if I make M-H work *better* then L becomes not as useful as M at neutral either because M-H will also work. See? I mean maybe the solution there is that M/H become not invincible but that also kinda sucks
LMH doesn't work at a lot of ranges, which is why I don't know whether it works or not on most characters.

Spent several minutes in training mode, wasn't able to reproduce the Squigly issue, stopped recording... then got it in a game, where Squigly was exactly dead on the center of the MP hieroglyph-man, pretty sure LP would have whiffed. I think it might have something to do with height after the c.mk trip, actually (from my training mode experiments, it's DEFINITELY not just raw range; doing 2mk -> 5hpx2xx623mp~hp worked at every range I tried it on the ground, from point blank to the very edge of 2mk), but I can't figure out how to reproduce it consistently. Other Eliza players -- @guitalex2007 @alexpi @Dawn111 @Emuchu @fenster -- do any of you know how to reproduce this consistently?
 
Cynical said:
Other Eliza players -- @guitalex2007 @alexpi @Dawn111 @Emuchu @fenster -- do any of you know how to reproduce this consistently?
First time hearing about this, will test it when I get home.
Mike_Z said:
Unrelated, does it bother anyone that Beowulf's c.MK won't OTG assists? It's not easy to fix, but I can maybe fix it.
One vote for no, please.
 
guitalex2007 said:
One vote for no, please.
No, don't fix it? Are you sure you're understanding the question?

To clarify:
- c.MK OTG vs point = grab
- c.MK OTG vs point + assist (OTG or not) = grab point
- c.MK OTG vs assist only = COMPLETELY WHIFF right now. IMO this should be changed to "hit them normally", which is what I'm asking.
 
Would like it to be fixed, even tho I don't see people using it for double snaps.
 
Yes fix cMk whiffing on hit vs assists pls
 
Mike_Z said:
- c.MK OTG vs assist only = COMPLETELY WHIFF right now. IMO this should be changed to "hit them normally", which is what I'm asking.
Well, it's a hit grab. It's OTG specific, but still. it should work the same way all hitgrabs work. Unless we're gonna make it so all hitgrabs can be used for double snaps. Eh, either way I don't care. We can just not use that normal during Double snaps, so I don't feel like it's really important that it changes.
 
If you can make it hit an assist and not completely whiff, I'd say go for it.
 
I've actually did stuff like leaving the point with 1 hp and recording the dummy calling assist to try snapbacks.
with chair (s.lk c.mp c.hp delay M cannon > up+k > down+k)xN seemed to work out.
 
Cynical said:
Spent several minutes in training mode, wasn't able to reproduce the Squigly issue, stopped recording... then got it in a game, where Squigly was exactly dead on the center of the MP hieroglyph-man, pretty sure LP would have whiffed. I think it might have something to do with height after the c.mk trip, actually (from my training mode experiments, it's DEFINITELY not just raw range; doing 2mk -> 5hpx2xx623mp~hp worked at every range I tried it on the ground, from point blank to the very edge of 2mk), but I can't figure out how to reproduce it consistently. Other Eliza players -- @guitalex2007 @alexpi @Dawn111 @Emuchu @fenster -- do any of you know how to reproduce this consistently?

The only combos that I've found so far where I can get M dp to hit but not H Dp after are like....cLK xx M DP, cLPx2-cMKx1-sHPx1 xx M DP and etc, basically when I intentionally shorten my buttons for no reason. Most everything I use normally with DPs works though and I couldn't find any case like that. What combo were you using?
 
2lk -> 2mk (pretty sure I got both hits; I don't ever cancel that one early, unless I'm cancelling early into 236mk for a shitty mixup on block) -> 5hpx2 -> 623mp~hp
 
That works perfectly fine for me, no matter what I try, so I can't help you there.
 
SonicFox5000 said:
Can we make sweeps more useful by making counter hit Sweeps cause a hard knockdown?
You do know that if someone techs a sweep, they lose quite a bit of undizzy, so in effect they can choose either to risk the tech or take a hard knockdown. Either option is in your favor, so changing it seems unnecessary?
 
No one in the right mind would not tech a sweep
 
RemiKz said:
No one in the right mind would not tech a sweep
.......midscreen. Man stop acting like sweeps' only use is beating armor, which is already a great aspect of the move type. But im out of my right mind. (also in corner if you use sweep in a combo that used otg, the them getting knockdown and "having" to tech puts you at advantage with the opponent with less undizzy)
 
I have oki setups off a sweep with peacock too. Not saying they are completely useless, but having them cause hard knockdown on CH would be neat to try.

Not teching knockdowns is a horrible idea, even midscreen. The opponent has enough time to distinguish that you did not tech and have to stand up in place, putting you in a horrible position, even with undizzy meter full. Need I remind you that using a reversal super while you have undizzy built up will allow it to be blockable post-flash now.
 
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RemiKz said:
Need I remind you that using a reversal super while you have undizzy built up will allow it to be blockable post-flash now.
Which makes wakeup throw better.
 
I guess he thought he had enough undizzy left and wanted to go for the full L,M,H copter chain
 
No idea what he was thinking - quite probably he wasn't thinking at all.

I'm just saying you aren't really making a point for "X is better than Y" by posting a video where doing X is getting you killed (except not, because your opponent is stupid)
 
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Think about it like tech chasing in smash bros, just off of sweep. They have 3 options: tech in either direction or take knockdown. Now a tech will take away what appears to be half of currently built undizzy. This a tradeoff for being to act sooner. However, keep in mind that you still have to respect a mixup on a correctly read chase and the benefit for your opponent is greater due to less undizzy. Also blockable post flash would still happen if you are hit with a full combo into sweep, since after the tech you 50% undizzy, so your opponents mixup is still safer than it used to. So either option is a risk your opponent takes, the only downside is that it gives your opponent options, and the tech chase is a gamble in itself. Higher risk, higher reward.
 
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