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Teaching a game

Osmiumsmith

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Lots of people like to squash noobs. I don't hear tales of teaching them

Anybody have stories of masters and students in games? Happened to me sometimes and they are fun memories.

In GTA vice city I helped my sister to reach the objectives when she was driving since she had difficult to pay attention to the road and the map at the same time.

I helped her kick the first Diablo's ass with the rogue.

A cousin of mine, completely unfamiliar with video games, mashed a lot of buttons in sparring mode with Bela and had a blast.
 
Squashing is a way of teaching.

Puts hair on their chests!
 
Squashing is a way of teaching.

Puts hair on their chests!

I had been squashed in MMA class once.

Disturbing, painful picture (NOT JOKING).

ufc-anderson-silva-quebra-perna.jpg
Didn't get knowledge or hair chest. A lot of metal in my bones though.
 
I usually ask people for advice on learning specific characters to the point of calling 'em "Coach" after a while.
 
I tell the nicer people who decide to add me that Fortune actually sucks because she has no good air to air and that her overhead special is balls because you can jab or super out of it. (Yes she has head but it's useless if you're in the air all the time.) Then they win and I cry a little.

I also teach everyone who adds me not to ask me any questions regarding system mechanics for the game and character stuff because learning from me is just a bad idea. I think that helps the most.
 
Zevak/CoH, NCV/konkrete, That Fucking Cup, Duckator, McPeanuts, Satan/FecalFeast, ElkyDori, Icky, and a whole mess of other players I can't remember right now are all awesome people that have either patiently gone through enormous (and often very one-sided) sets with me to help me learn a matchup, or have point-blank taken me into a training mode to help me learn something they recognized as a problem in my play.

Aside from that, there's IRC, SH, Steam Chat, Steam Community guides, Youtube videos and a whole other mess of helpful shit shared freely from the likes of Krackatoa, Worldjem, Khaos, Domo, Sev, and others. I never even know where to start saying thank you.

Skullgirls has a ridiculously helpful community, and although I'm not great at the game, I would be infinitely worse at it without all these people. I will say my dearest Skull-buddy is Zevak. I was nothing but an extremely frustrated solo painwheel contemplating why I gave up Starcraft 2 for Skullgirls when I get a Steam chat out of nowhere, saying "Hey, you're playing solo painwheel in a sea of Filia/Fortunes. I respect that, let me help you." I didn't know him, had never talked to him, it was just this friendly thing that came out of left field and helped me build some fundamentals.
 
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There were two interesting cases for me:

-One player wanted to have a couple of matches with me as Parasoul to see some of my skills. We won and lost some matches here and there and added each other as friends on Steam.
-There was one player who added me on Skype and Steam because he liked how I played with Filia and asked to teach me. I taught him a few bread-and-butter combos. I also added his friend who challenged me to a few matches and I enjoyed those matches.

Overall, the Skullgirls community is awesome to me because not only did it teach me additional fundamentals of fighting, but it also encouraged me to share my knowledge to other players whenever possible. I would like to say that Dohnut V.2 is a key inspiration to me as well as a cool friend.
 
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in my opinion the best teacher is the one that doesn't hold back and beats your ass regardless of skill level.guile players used to be impossible to touch till i fought a good one and started noticin his patterns.keep in mind some spammers are actually pretty damn good once you open them up (beat them multiple times until they show their true skill)

for some reason though i cant touch one unless im dudley or makoto but thats a whole different game.

I have to admit i like it when somebody doesnt know how to pushblock :/
sucks being better than beginners but destroyed by intermediates.
 
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in my opinion the best teacher is the one that doesn't hold back and beats your ass regardless of skill level.guile players used to be impossible to touch till i fought a good one and started noticin his patterns.keep in mind some spammers are actually pretty damn good once you open them up (beat them multiple times until they show their true skill)

for some reason though i cant touch one unless im dudley or makoto but thats a whole different game.

I have to admit i like it when somebody doesnt know how to pushblock :/
sucks being better than beginners but destroyed by intermediates.
I definitely know that feel. But once you start learning some of the smaller things (sneaky overheads, pushblock), you realize the impact it has on the outcome of a match. Every hit/block counts; makes the most of it.
 
When i play i'm not taking those things into account i just rush in and do combo resets 24/7, maybe that's why i cant beat intermediates :/
 
I think different people learn in different ways, so the best teacher is the one who doesn't force their teaching style, but teaches to the need of their pupil. In my case, getting my butt handed to my teaches me nothing (or perhaps I should say I LEARN nothing from it), but I've had some very kind players teach me TONS of stuff by breaking things down for me at at level I can understand. Dime_X, for instance, offered to coach me and though he doesn't play online with me, has reviewed some match and training videos I took of myself and given me tips as well as given me exact combos to practice that aren't optimal, but are purely for the purpose of building the foundation I clearly lacked.

I'd say my best training however has come from TheChrisMaxwell, a self proclaimed beginner himself, his knowledge of the basics of fighting games is still greater then mine and he has on multiple occasions invited me to training room or 2 player lobbies to practice and go over core elements. During our last session he set up voice chat so he could point out bad habits to me as I was doing them as well as explain what he was doing and how I should be reacting instead of how I was. He also spent significant time running drills with me, like he'd just try to block non stop and my job was to try to open him up for damage however I could, or he'd do nothing but zone me and my only job was to try to get in taking as little damage as possible. Chris ran these drives for me for quite while and when we were done the results were night in day, I went from almost never landing any damage or ever getting out of his zone pressure, to occasionally sneaking in damage or making it through the bullet hell walls. I still have a long way to go, but I'd improved, and he taught me tricks to accomplish both goals I'd never even considered before.

It's worth noting that part of why we did those particular drills was because we did play some serious matches for a bit where he kept near perfecting me and he took note both that I struggled to deal with zoning attempts, and that whenever I did get in on him, I was never capitalizing, then he'd get me into a long series of combos and resets and the match was over with my having learned nothing, but by removing everything but the zoning, or by removing his counter attacking and purely blocking, he allowed me to focus on one of my weaknesses until I'd really learned some ways to improve.

It's also worth noting that besides helping focus me in the training room on simple core concepts to repeat, Dime_X also had me spend a good chunk of time against Nightmare comp opponents in arcade mode, something I'd probably have never done if he hadn't suggested it do to my foolish desire to get right into matches against real people. Arcade mode let me apply the concepts I'd spent hours practicing in the training room against moving, reacting, opponents, and actually see some tangible success and improvement. I think another core element to a successful teacher is making your trainee truly feel good about their progress, like how if you work out and eat right for a month you may give up if you look in the mirror and don't look any thinner, but if you weigh yourself and see you're actually 4 lbs lighter that's tangible evidence that you're hard work is paying off, and that motivates you to keep training and keep eating healthy. It's not that hard to be motivated when you start out, but sustained motivation, or the lack there of, is one of the biggest hindrances to growth in all aspects of life, as evidence but the millions of new years resolutions that are abandoned every year by February. Its hard to see improvement when you're facing players way about you've level, but against AIs the improvements are much more apparent.

So yeah, just two stories of two great teachers whose combined efforts have already made me a much better skull girls player and are the main reasons I'm still playing this game at all. The key take away is that if you want to be a good coach:

- Encourage you're trainee at every opportunity
- Give them small obtainable goals to build the core skill set necessary for long term success
- Don't be afraid to use computer AIs as a means for them to practice in low stress environments and see tangible results to their training
- When you play against them, if you do go all out, its on you as the teacher to learn what they're doing wrong, not the other way around, and once you spot some core areas of weakness, put the real matches on the back burner and instead set up drills that allow them to focus specifically on their weaknesses you discovered.
- If you can't play with them but can see their matches, don't just tell them what they're doing wrong, give them ways to train themselves to do things right.
- Never forget that just because you learned something one way, doesn't mean they will to, be creative and try different approaches if what worked for you isn't working for them.
- Above all else, don't give up them if they become frustrated or lose motivation, if they do give up that's a failure on you as a teacher as much if not more so then on them. Instead, Help them brush off their failures and celebrate their accomplishments.
 
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I have what I consider kind of a sad story about my attempt to teach someone how to play Skullgirls. It is quite long, so I will spoiler box it for the sake of those who do not wish to read it.

A long time ago, back before the Skullgirls Indiegogo was a thing, and the Xbox community for Skullgirls was dying, I had a Ranked Match against someone I had not faced before. This individual seemed to have no idea what to do, to the point where he resorted to short hopping and air grabbing over and over again as he was at his last character.

After the match, I sent a courteous "Good game" message. The person responded, stating that he wished he was better at the game, but he did not know special attack inputs. This was before the in-game movelist was implemented, so I could understand this dilemma. I asked if he would like me to teach him the inputs in a Player Match, and he agreed.

He was playing Skullgirls of all Fighting Games, I thought, so he probably has some Fighting Game experience. How hard could this be...?

We started an Xbox Live party and began a Player Match. Both of us start as Peacock (as the player favors the character). I begin by telling him the input for the basic bomb throw move: Quarter-Circle-A. What precedes this is a question that foreshadowed the entire "experience" I would have teaching him for the next few weeks:

"What's 'Quarter-Circle'?"

...We're gonna have to start from square one...

While I personally learned how to play Fighting Games in one of the hardest ways possible (starting with Third Strike, of all things), I believed that the best way to teach someone would be to actually teach them slowly and patiently. My plan was to go over everything he would need to know about playing a Fighting Game, and help him in any way I could along the way. I was dedicated to teaching him how to be the best he could be at Skullgirls. The game needs more players, and if he was willing to learn, than it only made sense to try to teach him.

This ended up being one of the most stressful experiences I ever had as a gamer.

He was nigh unteachable, his mic had a permanent high pitched whining that would blare whenever we were in a Xbox Live party, he stoutly refused to try the easier-to-learn characters, he would forget moves as quickly as he learned them, and he could not perform a combo after any amount of practice.

Despite all of this, I continued to teach him, determined to make him at least a okay player. I was calm, reserved, and willing to repeat myself when necessary. However, the stress of these teaching sessions started to get to me, as progress was slow and he continued to make helping him very difficult, so I put our training sessions on hiatus for a few weeks.

Before we began training again, I realized that he was starting to play the newly released COD and/or Halo (I forget at this point), and I feared that he will start developing a specific habit that I am particularly against: tea-bagging. I tell him that, while I will tolerate anything else, my one rule is that there is no tea-bagging. Anything else is okay, but if this rule is broken, I am done teaching him.

He broke the rule. I kept teaching him. He broke it again. I continued to teach him. He did it enough times to finally break any willingness I had to continue.

I am still willing to help others who wish to learn how to play Fighting Games (although I have not had to teach anyone since then), but that particular attempt was the furthest my patience had ever pushed by someone, and I hope I never have anything like that happen ever again.
 
snip
When I reached the part about tea bagging I expected this to become some joke Ciscokid story.

You had such a great opportunity.

Why didn't you take it? :(
 
When I reached the part about tea bagging I expected this to become some joke Ciscokid story.

You had such a great opportunity.

Why didn't you take it? :(

A long time ago, back before the Skullgirls Indiegogo was a thing, and the Xbox community for Skullgirls was dying, I had a Ranked Match against someone I had not faced before. This individual seemed to have no idea what to do, to the point where he resorted to short hopping and air grabbing over and over again as he was at his last character.

After the match, I sent a courteous "Good game" message. The person responded, stating that he wished he was better at the game, but he did not know special attack inputs. This was before the in-game movelist was implemented, so I could understand this dilemma. I asked if he would like me to teach him the inputs in a Player Match, and he agreed.

He was playing Skullgirls of all Fighting Games, I thought, so he probably has some Fighting Game experience. How hard could this be...?

We started an Xbox Live party and began a Player Match. Both of us start as Peacock (as the player favors the character). I begin by telling him the input for the basic bomb throw move: Quarter-Circle-A. What precedes this is a question that foreshadowed the entire "experience" I would have teaching him for the next few weeks:

"What's 'Quarter-Circle'?"

...We're gonna have to start from square one...

While I personally learned how to play Fighting Games in one of the hardest ways possible (starting with Third Strike, of all things), I believed that the best way to teach someone would be to actually teach them slowly and patiently. My plan was to go over everything he would need to know about playing a Fighting Game, and help him in any way I could along the way. I was dedicated to teaching him how to be the best he could be at Skullgirls. The game needs more players, and if he was willing to learn, than it only made sense to try to teach him.

This ended up being one of the most stressful experiences I ever had as a gamer.

He was nigh unteachable, his mic had a permanent high pitched whining that would blare whenever we were in a Xbox Live party, he stoutly refused to try the easier-to-learn characters, he would forget moves as quickly as he learned them, and he could not perform a combo after any amount of practice.

Despite all of this, I continued to teach him, determined to make him at least a okay player. I was calm, reserved, and willing to repeat myself when necessary. However, the stress of these teaching sessions started to get to me, as progress was slow and he continued to make helping him very difficult, so I put our training sessions on hiatus for a few weeks.

Before we began training again, I realized that he was starting to play the newly released COD and/or Halo (I forget at this point), and I feared that he will start developing a specific habit that I am particularly against: tea-bagging. I tell him that, while I will tolerate anything else, my one rule is that there is no tea-bagging. Anything else is okay, but if this rule is broken, I am done teaching him.

He broke the rule. I kept teaching him. He broke it again. I told him how I became the prince of a town called Bel-air. In west Philadelphia born and raised. On the playground where I spent most of my days chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool and all shooting some b-ball outside of the school when a couple of guys, they were up to no good started making trouble in my neighbourhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared and said "You're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel-air." I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said "fresh" and had a dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare but I thought nah, forget it, yo homes to Bel-air! I pulled up to a house about seven or eight and I yelled to the cabby "Yo, homes smell you later!" looked at my kingdom I was finally there to sit on my throne as the prince of Bel-air.

I am still willing to help others who wish to learn how to play Fighting Games (although I have not had to teach anyone since then), but that particular attempt was the furthest my patience had ever pushed by someone, and I hope I never have anything like that happen ever again.
 
People don't want to learn though, they want shortcuts to fast wins and complain when they can't find any. Whenever you give new players advice on what they can do to improve (check the beginner forums for example), it's usually them telling you why they can't do it and what problems SG has. So, why waste your time? If players want to learn, they need to:

  1. Be humble and recognize that their knowledge of the game is probably flawed.
  2. Ask questions about their play. If you're losing often and badly to various players, ask one of them what you could be doing better.
  3. Stop blaming aspects of the game as to why they lose, like blaming combos for why they keep losing matches (this happens so often).
I'm sure if they did that and showed interest in learning, then there would be no problems with anybody teaching.
 
People don't want to learn though, they want shortcuts to fast wins and complain when they can't find any. Whenever you give new players advice on what they can do to improve (check the beginner forums for example), it's usually them telling you why they can't do it and what problems SG has. So, why waste your time?
While you are free to your opinion, I personally feel this is the absolute WORST mine set to have. I'm not saying you should break your back bending over backwards for a player who has made it clear to you they intend to put in no effort, but this forum is also rife with people who expressed frustration and instead of being given encouragement or advice, were treated with, at best, indifference, at worst, contempt. Heck, I feel like half the time I've seen people even try to help they did so in a "here's a link to helpful information... but if you weren't a lazy loser you'd have found it on you're own, grumble grumble making me take 10 seconds to link this for him grumble grumble what a jerk grumble". Its not just about providing useful information, but the way you present it can have a huge impact on whether or not they feel motivated to actually look into it.

If players want to learn, they need to:

  1. Be humble and recognize that their knowledge of the game is probably flawed.
  2. Ask questions about their play. If you're losing often and badly to various players, ask one of them what you could be doing better.
  3. Stop blaming aspects of the game as to why they lose, like blaming combos for why they keep losing matches (this happens so often).
I'm sure if they did that and showed interest in learning, then there would be no problems with anybody teaching.

Would it be awesome if every potential new player matched you're check list, absolutely. You pretty much listed the ideal student, and any player who matches your list is much more likely to succeed at this game than any that doesn't. But if you only help people who match you're ideal student, you're alienated the vast VAST majority of potential new players. A good teacher and a good community sucks up their frustration and restrains their eye rolling when 9999th new player that week complains about how everyone online combos them for 5 minutes and thus why they suck, and instead said good teacher offers the player tips both on how to improve, explaining how the process will lead to them being able to do said combos as well, and or, on how to find opponents more around their skill level so they can enjoy the more casual game they're looking.

A bad teacher or community either ignores the cry for help, or worse, tells them something to the extent of "this is just how fighting games are, stop crying and learn to like losing or GTFO you @$!%#".

I think the latter is the single most damaging thing you can do for a potential new player, whether the statement is true or not, the way a new player is going to see it is as you being a pompous A-hole personally attacking them for expressing their very valid (even if you believe completely wrong) opinion and experiences. Yes, some players are just coming here to vent before they quit no matter what you say, but a very large portion are venting with the hope that some one here will step in and show them what they're doing wrong or what they're missing so they can stop being frustrated and start enjoying the game.
 
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I totally agree with DanTheMeek. While I was certainly frustrated with my posted experience in teaching, it was just one person, and I still believe that understanding, patience, and a willingness to overcome difficulties is the best way to help someone learn. Fighting Games require a mindset that the average gamer is not equipped with going in, so it is important to try to help them gain this mindset though learning and experience.

I don't wish for my story to be seen as a whine against noobs, but as a single unfortunate case.
 
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i don't have the exact link, but last monday on UltraChen there was a special presentation about trying to help teach new players in fighting games

i have no idea how effective it would be, but it was pretty interesting
 
I'm just learning from all the resources there are. While a lot of the good old things are now outdated because of patches, there are plenty of things out there. YT has so many things it's not even funny. The JPs come up with lots of great stuff (and why wouldn't they otherwise?) >.>

I don't have any teaching experience here. But I do have one principle: I don't bother teaching anyone that won't bother wanting to learn. If I don't feel like learning, I'll just turn off the game, play something else, and then come back with a fresh mind and a fresh start. Maybe some people could learn to do the same sometimes..? (Not pointing fingers at people and it wouldn't matter because I don't know anyone here...and it does help).
 
I had been squashed in MMA class once.

Disturbing, painful picture (NOT JOKING).
Man that fight was crazy wasn't it, I wish it didn't end that way though, it was a good match up.
 
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Squashing is a way of teaching.

Puts hair on their chests!

This is actually how my family teaches one another how to play Fighters
We throw each other in the ring and tell them to battle.

I have taught my friends the same way

What we do is play one match and then proceed to break down the character and their inputs afterwards.

It's a teaching style that doesn't work for everyone, and in more recent times should I have to teach someone I often take more TLC to teach them before I squash them.
 
This is actually how my family teaches one another how to play Fighters
We throw each other in the ring and tell them to battle.

I have taught my friends the same way

What we do is play one match and then proceed to break down the character and their inputs afterwards.

It's a teaching style that doesn't work for everyone, and in more recent times should I have to teach someone I often take more TLC to teach them before I squash them.

For the record, once its already made clear up front you're here to help them improve, I do think starting off with at least 1 all out match, and its likely resulting squashing is important. It serves two purposes. First, it lets you, see what you truly have to work with, do they exhibit basic fighting game principles but clearly don't know skull girls nuances, or does it look like this is the first fighting game they've ever played and they are completely lost. Second, it establishes a level of respect and authority for the trainee, by proving how far above them you are, you also prove that you have much they can learn from. Not that two people around the same skill level can't learn from each other, but a new player is more likely to give you're advice extra weight if they've seen first hand that you know what you're talking about.

My only issue with the squashing method is with people who only squash and nothing else. Its not impossible to learn from repeatedly getting you're bottom handed to you on a silver platter, but it takes a very special, very rare, kind of person to do so, and the majority of people not only won't learn from the experience, but will actually have their motivation to keep playing reduced until it reaches a point where they just give up entirely. Unless they tell you up front their goal is to win an Evo, you, as a teacher, must always keep in mind that even if this game to you is you're obsession, to most other players, its just a game, and its purpose for them is to provide enjoyment. If they're not enjoying themselves, even if they are improving from you're daily beat downs, odds are still high that they won't stick around, so its important to gauge they're enjoyment level, and if its poor, see if you can't find creative ways to make things more enjoyable while still serving the same ends, even if the process to greatness is slower for the compromise.

One more note. I do also often get the impression that a lot of the posters on the forum feel like new players need us more then we need them, thus the onus is on them to show us and the game respect and to shut up and listen when we're disagreeing with them. This is another poor mindset, in my opinion. Fighting games, by their very nature, require other players, and lets not kid ourselves, this isn't Street Fighter 4, our community is small and fragile and consequently we need new players more then most fighting game communities. Whether you like it or not, we really do need them more then they need us.

There's a sea of games (fighting or otherwise) out there to take up peoples time, as such, every new player we snag to the skull girls community is a small victory for the game and community as a whole, whether they never intend to be more then a casual player, or they genuinely aspire to be the next EVO champion. Just as we should help new players celebrate their victories, we should celebrate every time a new player even considers picking this game up, and should put serious effort into both getting them to take the plunge, but just as importantly, give them the encouragement and positive experience that will greatly increase the odds of them sticking around long term. The guy whose thinking about joining seems to have a bad attitude? Don't put him down for it, give him reasons to change his tune. If you care about this game (and if you're on this forum I assume you do), you do yourself and the game a disservice every time you brush off a potential new player, no matter how justified you feel in you're actions.
 
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words words words words

No offense, but you and Dime seem to like making almost all your posts loooooooooong. I mean, I don't want to be a hypocrite because I know I can sometimes go off on incredibly long tangents (especially on topics that interest me). But holy hell, how am I supposed to read all this.

Anyway, I agree with Winnie. Teaching is easy...if someone wants to learn. If they have no interest, than it's going to be like pulling teeth. As much as we like certain things and want to share our interests with our friends/family, sometimes you just have to realize that something is just not for everyone.

If there's one thing I'd say though, it's don't get mad or make someone feel shitty because they aren't improving fast enough or something. Different people improve at different rates, or might not feel the need to take their game to a certain level. There's nothing wrong with that and you should respect it.
 
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My younger brother has recently wanted to get into Skullgirls and asked me to teach him how to play. I have been teaching him how to play lots of games for years now, so I felt quite honored to share my knowledge with him. I am no expert by any means, but I know enough to get by. One reason why I love teaching him is because sometimes he will discover things that I never knew about. So, it's a learning experience for the both of us.

With some games, he actually surpasses me. Command&Conquer 3 for example. I taught him how to play and the next thing I know, he becomes the master while I become the student.