The Unofficial Official Beta Discussion Thread

[CaioLugon]

Kinda off topic, but would it be possible to update the endless beta version to have the current build of the game? That would let me run both at the same time and have access to training mode while waiting for games in qm.

 

[Stuff]

One bit of QoL i would like to see that hasnt been mentioned here yet is the consistency of her flight hurtboxes, Her feet dip down depending on the direction you fly and can lead to her getting clipped at max height for some directions but not others by things such as L-luger, lenny, and Marie's beams. I'd really like for her to have one static hurtbox for flight

I think this would be a really good change because yeah it does not feel good to get clipped after dodging certain moves 'cause you're in neutral fly to punish and WHAM your foot is out and ouch.

3.6.7 live:

I'm gonna miss jLP A2A (happy she keeps the faster overhead) but I think this really is the best of both worlds and pw got to keep most of the good stuff I liked so that's great. My only problem really was that it was thought that Painwheel was "overall nerfed" was not a sentence I was willing to accept but now I don't think anybody would say that.

Regardless I don't think Painwheel beats Robo any time soon (probably her worst match up imo) but anything helps and I'm still happy to see she got anything at all after so many years. Also yay thresher refreshes flight, finally my prayers have been answered

There's definitely a lot more I wanted for the character but given the time constraints, I'm pretty happy with what was given

 

[Cattfish]

Kinda off topic, but would it be possible to update the endless beta version to have the current build of the game? That would let me run both at the same time and have access to training mode while waiting for games in qm.

This is a GREAT idea- I just ask if we can archive current endless beta as a launch option ie ireallyfearchange so people can still play/lab pre-Annie sg thanks I still load it up to this day.

 

[Controlfreak69]

I'm not sure what's the direction for Marie right now is, no real reason to play her outside of "I enjoy her"

My suggestion to somewhat of a buff(?) Is to make hilgard punch and howl (L,M,H) is to have less recovery time/make him go away much quicker. Maybe keep L punch and howl the same but make hilgard go away quicker at least with M, H

 

[Liam]

I forgot one update note in the last update which has been added to the patch notes this morning, just a heads up this is also live:

 

[CaioLugon]

This is a GREAT idea- I just ask if we can archive current endless beta as a launch option ie ireallyfearchange so people can still play/lab pre-Annie sg thanks I still load it up to this day.

Can't you just use that trick triv and nope had a while back to play older versions?

 

[Will]

I have to say while I understand the j,mk + Assist call nerf, I don't understand the momentum nerfs. Afaik, this isn't an aspect of the character people were really complaining about so what was this nerf for? Don't want to go too deep into my thoughts just yet but I just don't quite understand the logic behind this

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

ALSO it is again probably healthy for no assist calls after jmk, but it's crazy that Marie loses it after 2 months but robo has had jhk assist call for 10 years

This is a really good point; Robo Fortune should probably not have this if Marie lost it, it basically enables assist calls at heights they probably shouldn't be allowed. And if you want to look at that and go "but Fortune Fiber + assist!!!!" then sure, that can probably go too. Calling assists at heights your opponent cannot see the assist is pretty corny, and SG was designed from the ground up to try and prevent that as much as possible.

Umbrella

This character is STRONG. Considering how strong she is (still) could we consider making all hits she takes in starving automatic counter hit? More incentive to properly manage hunger and makes the disadvantage state more of a disadvantage. I'm with Cloud in feeling like this character is overall better than she was before (which is kind of nuts if you think about it), but rather than take stuff away and make her less fun to play, I would like to see starving made more of a disadvantage stage as an equalizer.

 

[Calexe]

I can adjust the launch height of moves to launch characters higher the heavier the character is - that is done ALL over the place for every character. If I can just do that on a few key Umbrella moves I will consider it. OTGless Hungern Rush I really do not think needs to come back.

I think the most noticeable buttons that needs to be adjusted for OS Umbrella are jHP and fHP (lvl2), to some extent the bubble pop as well.
Also, would be super helpful if Salt Grind have some startup reduced to help her routes against mediums as well.
On Overstuffed, Umbrella needs to preserve the OTG to increase her damage, some of her routes are very tricky on mediums as well, so the QoL is welcome against them.

Anyway, I really want to suggest to you to consider giving the Rush bounce back, she got both OS damage reduced and Rush removed, that hurt way too much the Overstuffed gameplan.

Some other notes:
OS sHP xx Puddle SnS needs to be revised against Parasoul on corner, again;
Satiated sHP xx TT deserve to work otgless on corner targets;
sHK ground bounce could be higher to help Umbrella new routes after TT;
Starving does not need the Red HP drain, the most optimal play against Umbrella is timing her out, this is way too punishing;

Also want to ask if you can give the Umbrella's sHK treatment to Cerebella missed Grab Bag, don't really this she needs to eat my OTG.

 

[Sg Hen]

but Fortune Fiber + assist!!!!" then sure, that can probably go too.

The calls for fortune nerfs are coming from inside the house.
Fiber already puts fortune in a super jump state so she's only calling assist when she's on the ground already, I don't think it's the same at all.
I'm also not sure how you would change fiber+assist without it feeling awful anyway. If it was you can't do assist+fiber in the same input you would just do 62(assist)3HK for the same result but harder execution, or you make it so fortune can't fiber at all when an assist is coming on screen which would be horrendous.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

The calls for fortune nerfs are coming from inside the house.
Fiber already puts fortune in a super jump state so she's only calling assist when she's on the ground already, I don't think it's the same at all.
I'm also not sure how you would change fiber+assist without it feeling awful anyway. If it was you can't do assist+fiber in the same input you would just do 62(assist)3HK for the same result but harder execution, or you make it so fortune can't fiber at all when an assist is coming on screen which would be horrendous.

For the record I agree with you; I just think Robo should lose hers, and if Fiber + assist has to be a casualty of that than it's kind of whatever. Robo j.hk + assist exists in the same grey area where you call the assist while grounded or in jump frames, and then instantly launch yourself into the air making the fact you called it while grounded basically meaningless. Maybe Fortune and Robo are going to be unchanged in this regard, but I would like some sort of consistency going forward for characters that can effectively cheese the "no assist calls at SJ height rule". Maybe the solution is giving Marie j.mk + assist back, but to me, it makes more sense to look at the other two worst offenders of this, and those are Fortune Fiber + assist and Robo j.hk + assist.

Also, my suggestion is not removing her ability to fiber when you've already called assist, that's nuts. The "harder execution version" with Fiber + assist is more akin to what I would want.

 

[Liam]

This character is STRONG. Considering how strong she is (still) could we consider making all hits she takes in starving automatic counter hit?

I don't think this meaningfully moves the needle in terms of her strength, it is very rare for her to make it to Starving with her current drain and hunger mechanics imo.

I'm with Cloud in feeling like this character is overall better

Cloud hasn't communicated this anywhere visible to me.

Kinda off topic, but would it be possible to update the endless beta version to have the current build of the game?

I don't expect we'll ever touch it again, sorry. You can achieve this already though by following these steps:

- Delete contents of endless beta install folder.
- Copy the entire contents of your regular Skullgirls install folder into that.
- Create a file called "steam_appid.txt" in the root folder of the new endless beta install folder.
- Paste the app ID of Skullgirls Endless Beta [208610] (or any other game that is not Skullgirls) in that file and save it.
- Launch Skullgirls Endless Beta through Steam using -beta launch option.
- Launch regular Skullgirls.
- You now have two versions open at the same time, one using the ID from Endless Beta and one that uses the regular ID.

The steam_appid.txt file works for every game on Steam btw, not just Skullgirls.

 

[Sg Hen]

For the record I agree with you; I just think Robo should lose hers, and if Fiber + assist has to be a casualty of that than it's kind of whatever. Robo j.hk + assist exists in the same grey area where you call the assist while grounded or in jump frames, and then instantly launch yourself into the air making the fact you called it while grounded basically meaningless.

I see, I'm fine with the way marie and robo call assists at super jump height personally, but I do understand the perspective that they shouldn't be allowed to do that. I wasn't under the impression that when people talked about robo doing jHK+assist they had a problem with her doing it from the ground, I thought the problematic sequence was viewed to be 7/8/9HK L beam+assist at the top of the screen to create a wall and cover her landing or create an ambiguous left/right as she runs away. I guess it goes without saying since I'm fine with the more egregious cases but even if robo jHK+assist got removed I think she should still be allowed to do it starting from the ground.

 

[Liam]

Also, for general update on timing, I have some reduced availability to make changes until some point next week, before or after Wednesday.

(I am leaving for vacation on Thursday, the 9th.)

Ideally let's have feedback on critical fixes, tweaks, etc, in before Monday, so I can have the highest chance of success for turning things around.

 

[Yatoto]

Can we have the buffer on Cerebella's jLPxN jHP back? it feels way worse than it should be to do this string for something that is so essential for the character

 

[oddberry]

Quick word on umbrella changes as this is probably going to be the last time i'll be able to talk about her

I think the most noticeable buttons that needs to be adjusted for OS Umbrella are jHP and fHP (lvl2), to some extent the bubble pop as well.
Also, would be super helpful if Salt Grind have some startup reduced to help her routes against mediums as well.
On Overstuffed, Umbrella needs to preserve the OTG to increase her damage, some of her routes are very tricky on mediums as well, so the QoL is welcome against them.

Anyway, I really want to suggest to you to consider giving the Rush bounce back, she got both OS damage reduced and Rush removed, that hurt way too much the Overstuffed gameplan.

just piggybacking on this post, any move that launches in general needs a higher bounce for overstuffed combos to work on heavies. 6HP, jHP, bobble, salt grinder all need to launch higher. i still think getting the overstuffed launch back couldnt hurt, at least during combos. i also dont agree with the ravenous 2mp change as it already felt different from the previous range change but i'll play with it more to see how i feel. the animation not matching the hitboxes is going to mess with me a lot but that's a problem umby already has with air throw and now jmp so i can't say i'm not used to it. someone pointed it out earlier but the ravenous sns change is messing up some combos. i think the higher they are in the air the farther away umbrella goes because she dismounts close to where they were in the air instead of the fixed distance previously. If ravenous slide just hit like it used to but still had the faster dismount on block it would feel fine.

As for word on her general design, i think she feels okay this patch. coming outof it, if this version of umbrella dropped tomorrow, i would make it work. I have really been enjoying playing her lately (i know i'm supposed to be playing retail for combo breaker but this version is so much fun i cant help it!)

just some final FINAL umby thoughts:

is there any update on this? being lamed out into a mode i get lamed out harder in is very unfun

I think I'll let her do something analogous to old L Bubble in Starving to regain some Hunger Meter and we'll test that out - she's really going to want a way to recover vs Peacock / Robo at fullscreen.

is there any update on this? being lamed out into a mode i get lamed out harder in is very unfun

The management is engaged with a different, simpler, more streamlined way after the rework which is a pretty big part of how it all fits together. One of the goals of this is to also make Umbrella a bit easier to wrap your head around and play. With your proposed changes, we're back to Salt Grinder, grind 1 pip, SQRT, then fall back into Ravenous, and right back where we started.

I know the issue of "1 grind salt grinder at the tip of rav" but we physically can't do that anymore. i think having rush be the only eating move that wont put you completely in satiated is the ideal way to go as you can only combo into it once without meter, and it gives her an ideal ravenous combo and/or reset point. it's also basically useless at this point as a combo tool since you can use both tongue twister and salt grinder which do way more damage. maybe even make hunger drain faster every time you refill in ravenous so it still feels like a danger mode but not one you're not allowed to play in even if you're right. i dont think a ravenous game plan is something to be scared of for the longevity of the game, just like an overstuffed gameplan isnt. different people are going to lean towards one or another and finding the different gameplans to come out of that is really cool! i feel like encouraging different state play can only be healthy for the character. the 2mp change would also make Way more sense if this change was implemented as gutting the pre hit of a character that has to hit you or die feels like the wrong way to go about the mode.

As for other characters i'll give a quick writeup.

Fukua

I sense a lot of hesitancy to buff Fukua or make her anything other than what she is now, but I don't think she's particularly amazing at the moment. Characters that get up in your face, hit you with a strong pre-hit mix up, then two touch you are more scary than Fukua to me at least, even though her layered resets and pressure are very powerful.

Is there any plan to do at least the hld on throw? i've read a LOT of fukua player posts and have talked to a lot of fukua players that at least want one of their tools changed. i personally think health drain on shadows isn't needed and big band players should try not calling big band like they're going to die in 3 seconds if they don't. l shadow isn't doing anything to h bomber or full screen beam and even assists it does work on. you can hit the shadow. like i think gaining health back on hit is the right direction? but with the other insane things in the game (i.e. item drop literally existing) im quite unsure why fukua can't have an item drop you can actually interact with that is on the screen that you can see without losing health.

Beowulf
it's kind of unfortunate the way beo exists currently. you either completely rework him and make him an interesting character, gutting beo band teams forcing them to rework a gameplan thats been around for a long time, or don't do that and keep beo in the same spot he's been in since people realized other characters do damage. i'm personally unsure of what to do with beo to make him better and more unique without pissing off at least one beo player but that's the main problem. there's not really a meta incentive to change his game plan but at the same time he's lacking in so many areas that he needs the one thing he does to be relevant at all. I wish we had more time i really wouldve liked to have seen a reworked beo. as one of the first characters i ever tried in sg as a little 13 year old its a shame that hes chained to either band or solo.


Marie
I feel like if a lame zoner gets designed you should let her be a lame zoner. I am honestly not a fan of marie. after labbing what she could do for 2 weeks i realized what her game plan was and got extremely bored. i do not like that the last character for the foreseeable future was a what if child of fukua and robo. however, if she's going to be that character, why take away the tools other up up and away zoners have from her. getting to superjump height and being able to call assist is not exclusive to marie, so i'm unsure of why that would have to go for her specifically. maybe because summons are like assists i guess? i just think changing it specifically for marie makes no sense. if you want her to be a lame zoner let her do that! i think she's really good at it with or without it regardless, but taking it away just feels weird considering there are multiple other characters that can do that as well. i feel like marie is going to be a strong character but with the consistent nerfs to her, i really can't see what is expected of the character.

 

[SonicFox]

Give Marie Star finger from the classic jojo fighting on her M summon and let me walk forward and box with it and we’re TALKING

Always thought she should use hilgars as a stand to be more active in neutral and do more messed up/oppressive things with it

 

[SeaJay]

Can we have the buffer on Cerebella's jLPxN jHP back? it feels way worse than it should be to do this string for something that is so essential for the character

I'd also personally be in favour of having it back, but it was only taken away because people complained that it messed up their muscle memory or something like that, so there won't be a way that makes everyone happy.

Check out this combo I did with the buffer on though :)

 

[ImpDi]

Dahlia's Mousetrap still looks awful, because it do too much options. Zoning and space control, anti-zoning(eating projectile), reversal. Dahlia hard to punish for this, because she go ago. And even if you manage to punish her for this, the attacker who was able to punish for the move is still at a disadvantage, because the trap is still under your feet. It's looks like pseudo reversal(because you can’t punish him and he doesn’t waste resources)
Maybe, If mousetrap will be destroyed on hit will be better?

 

[dekillsage]

Armor

- Armor specials taking full damage is one of the worst changes I have ever seen/experienced. This has never been the case for how armor works in the entirety of my time playing this game and getting TOD'd by Annie arm -> dhc is so dumb and its not fun either.

Eliza

- Lady of Slaughter can dhc into SSJ, Gregor, death crawl etc midscreen if you slightly delay the dhc but the timing is pretty strict. If it can be more lenient like new fenrir that would be good.

-Air super and Bite super into annie beam doesn't really work if it can be adjusted for that their synergy would be a lot nicer.

Robo

-Old 2Mk was fine she should have that I think

- Detonate explosion was made with being unable to pushblock it in mind and the pushblock change has removed that. I think it should just work as it was designed.

Umbrella

- If one of the questions is whether or not she's better than retail IMO she is better. More importantly she is more fun. Being able to stay in OS mode is pretty over powered though. Prior to that change I had to accept that set ups made me lose the mode, but now I just set up and then max damage route every time into the same set up again.

I think players over time will like the ravenous speed over rising j.mp and looping people, because you don't even need to loop people to kill them anymore her damage is great for just killing them.

- It is not hard to get to Ravenous/ it wasn't hard when specials maxed your hunger meter. You can set up for it with retina -> taunt pretty free in neutral/ post kill.

Marie

- If the idea for her is she hits the top of the screen and uses her summons to approach I have been fooled because she herself sucks at this. She is so slow that anytime you actually do get the summon and approach with it the pushblock on the summon pushes her so far back I end up just putting myself at risk for no reason. Peacock, Dahlia, and Robo do not have to go through this because they either don't care about pushblock or they just get in right away anyways with their speed/movement options.

- Her blockstrings are ass. Half the players I play react to the overhead, the other half mash on me crazy because the armor mind game is ass and m tackled gets mashed on/pbgc'd for free anyways its a meme. Most characters have super fast specials to keep themselves safe that can lose to pbgc but they do not lose to mashing.

- Shoulder hitbox should be bigger/hit lower. It is not a projectile assist and should not be whiffing on people point blank because they're on the ground.

- The bunny went from being useful to ass really fast. It was really the only thing she had vs zoners like Robo and Peacock and she didn't even get to do it unless she gained advantage state. It is really good for making an approach, way better than her summons, but if it hits my reward is garbage into a garbage reward reset into no set up. I really hate this move.

- Marie losing jMK assist but its worse than Robo who can rising jHK assist and Filia can airball airdash assist. If she had an air dash then sure but she should be able to do this. What else is she trying to do?

- Throw -> H tackle universal please or make command grab not 15F no one else has to go through this nor do they have slow ass command grabs.
It's a really interesting command grab too I just need my risk to have some reward.

- jhp hits and still drops on hit why does it have a max range if its gonna do this. 5HP does the same thing you can L summon to fix the ground one but its ass you get mashed on mad hard her specials are giga slow

- Spirit bomb dhc in combos might be a bit too slow. Midscreen robo H spin -> canon -> spirit bomb does not work, you can fix this by doing M spin but that's basic synergy that doesn't work.

- 5LK hitting a little lower too it hits some of the cast and whiffs on the others point blank on otg

- L punch skeleton not scaling is really nice tyvm. M and H should also have better scaling values too it doesn't need to be no scaling or make M slightly easier to convert from the midrange with more of a hitpause or higher launch and H recovery faster on hit so I can actually use it again for set up on HKD hit.

 

[CaioLugon]

I don't expect we'll ever touch it again, sorry. You can achieve this already though by following these steps:

- Delete contents of endless beta install folder.
- Copy the entire contents of your regular Skullgirls install folder into that.
- Create a file called "steam_appid.txt" in the root folder of the new endless beta install folder.
- Paste the app ID of Skullgirls Endless Beta [208610] (or any other game that is not Skullgirls) in that file and save it.
- Launch Skullgirls Endless Beta through Steam using -beta launch option.
- Launch regular Skullgirls.
- You now have two versions open at the same time, one using the ID from Endless Beta and one that uses the regular ID.

The steam_appid.txt file works for every game on Steam btw, not just Skullgirls.

WHAT THE HELL THIS IS HUGE THANK YOU

I'd also personally be in favour of having it back, but it was only taken away because people complained that it messed up their muscle memory or something like that, so there won't be a way that makes everyone happy.

I'm very strongly in favor of bringing it back as well. Any version of timed inputs would work the same and if you mashed, it just made your jlps come out more consistently so I don't understand how that change could negatively affect any consistent method to do the string at all.

 

[LucFal]

I agree with Sage on armor, this seems a bit extreme.
I'm loving Eliza and appreciate all the changes given.

Fukua definitely needs more looked into imo:
- First I have a question, is it intended that if you use the armored command grab or taunt that her recoverable red life from shadows is capped? You can no longer recover previous shadow life lost with darts, or anything else once you have used one of these so I just wanted to make sure that was intended along with the new mechanics, since I believe this is how it works in retail. Other than that, I want to say that I prefer Fukua losing health for holding shadows over not losing any health at all. Her ability to time stall without health drain isn't very healthy for the game imo and her issues with pre-hit makes that tactic much safer and overall a better gameplan. I definitely prefer these health regen changes thematically and gameplay wise.

- One thing I think should absolutely be changed is the scaling metergain and hitstun on darts. I would personally prefer if they were all normalized but increasing the minumum across the board could be fine to bring back old dart rejump combos (you can still do them a little bit but it's very unforgiving in timing), being able to convert off point blank falling dart instead of being mashed on and losing for being right, and in general helping her transition from neutral to conversions easier.

- Getting the ability to convert from throw would definitely make her prehit better and allow her to open people up without spending a ton of resources to do so. This would really help her ability to get her gameplan started. I definitely think she should have this at the least.

-As a QOL if it's possible, making M Shadow grab enemies in hitstun only more consistently would help tremendously against characters with more egregious hurtboxes. As is there's a lot of delay differences to make certain combos work and especially in the corner things get a little wacky.

-A great change would be to reset shadow usage on BFF DHC specifically if that is possible. M Shadow assist isn't necessarily better H Drill for a lot of characters already, and when used properly ends up hurting her DHC damage and reset potential as a detriment. You're forced to reset first then DHC if you want the better DHC routes, which just gives your opponent more chances to slip out.

-Something I would love to try, is reducing the startup of H Shadow and letting it travel a little longer, as well as letting it bounce enemies a little higher on air hit. I'd also like these collective changes as an alternative to the throw conversion if both are not possible. Being able to threaten with a faster overhead on the ground augments her pressure game the same way as threatening the throw and fits in line with her 2LK staggers. The bouncing on air hit lets you convert from throws if it's held before the throw a lot easier, especially air throw setups. I'd at least like this option to be considered, as in tandem with meter and hit stun normalization from darts I think she'd function a lot better overall, and you'd get more metergain to be able to threaten throws more as well.

Thanks again for all the changes Liam, I appreciate how passionate you and the team are about the game that you're willing to keep it updated alongside mobile^^ Enjoy your vacation when it comes, you definitely deserve it lol

 

[Liam]

- Detonate explosion was made with being unable to pushblock it in mind and the pushblock change has removed that. I think it should just work as it was designed.

This never worked correctly FWIW, if you just tap pushblock a few times it was very easy to get it, since you can always pushblock on the frame that a hit makes contact even when it tried to lock out PB. If you PB her early as possible PBGC punish is still impossible though because of how locked up by hitpause you are, and she won't slide backwards either, so unless I'm missing something I don't recall what the anti PB change was supposed to do originally actually.

- First I have a question, is it intended that if you use the armored command grab or taunt that her recoverable red life from shadows is capped? You can no longer recover previous shadow life lost with darts, or anything else once you have used one of these so I just wanted to make sure that was intended.

Yeah that's how it was implemented before. Once you use a "main healing move", it wipes the stored health drain damage so you can't get any more of it.

- If one of the questions is whether or not she's better than retail IMO she is better. More importantly she is more fun. Being able to stay in OS mode is pretty over powered though. Prior to that change I had to accept that set ups made me lose the mode, but now I just set up and then max damage route every time into the same set up again.

She is more fun to play but I also think she is more fun (less frustrating) to play against too which is also a goal. I expected that in the long run not being able to revert back to Satiated from Overstuffed whenever you want would actually end up being more of a nerf than a buff, since slower normals is annoying up close in a scramble. The idea is that if you go into Overstuffed for a combo opportunity, you have to play a little bit of neutral in Overstuffed too before you can revert back to Satiated and eat again, so it's more of a commitment. If that ends up just being better for her I could see that being adjusted.

Could I see some of these OS set ups you're referring to? I'm curious if it's just using regular QCB+K bubbles, or OS Under The Weather. UTW could end OS still as one potential change.

is there any update on this? being lamed out into a mode i get lamed out harder in is very unfun

It won't be L Bubble, it will be ice cream taunt if anything. I'll see if I have time to integrate it, but don't expect it to be as fast and simple to fire off like old L Bubble of course.

someone pointed it out earlier but the ravenous sns change is messing up some combos. i think the higher they are in the air the farther away umbrella goes because she dismounts close to where they were in the air instead of the fixed distance previously. If ravenous slide just hit like it used to but still had the faster dismount on block it would feel fine.

Yeah, I'll do something like that.

Is there any plan to do at least the [hkd] on throw?

We did try that once and it was armageddon levels of contention trying to get everyone on the same page from what I recall, even some Fukua players said it should be reverted.

 

[Liam]

Also I would appreciate it if some Umbrella players could post some of their up to date combos starting from Ravenous/Satiated/Overstuffed, assistless.

 

[Adeveis]

Parasoul
The Parasoul changes are mostly fine. The M egret change isn't very good though. He's on the screen too long so I can't call him multiple times in short time frames. He moves forward a lot but after one dash, this change is mostly useless. I'd rather go back to where I could call him, dash forward, and not have him linger so I can call him again.

Dhalia
I think her blockstrings need to be touched up. Her lights are fine as is but everything after isn't a very good option. Yes she can low/high with lk > s.hp, but that's not really that scary with having no low to chain into after lk. Yes cancelling into L shot is a blockstring off most her normals and is safe, but this just makes her super weak to pushblock. c.mp is -5 but if you pushblock her light, you can just punish her for trying to string into this. She basically has no mediums when blockstringing and it makes her feel clunky and limited. Maybe something like letting c.mk have an extra thing where you hold the button and she doesn't put out bear trap but she recovers a lot faster. Maybe she should be able to cancel into onslaught (I'm pretty sure someone has asked for this but I don't know what the opinion is on letting her have this).

j.hk my only thing is I think it's weird it doesn't function like parasoul j.hp or fortune j.hk. If she chains into it, I think it should be a red bounce rather than blue.

Doily setting is weird. Me personally I would like to be locked out of setting another one while there is one on the screen and only allowed to teleport. I don't think the need to change the doily's position comes up enough to warrant keeping that option. Though I understand if ppl wouldn't want to lose the option. I do think something needs to change about the doilies though. Better ways to tell them apart or giving different options from the 214K input when the doily is out. As an example making 214mk teleport but make 214hk teleport attack(like her counter) and 214lk fake teleport

 

[hunter half hands]

I was planning on waiting till after balance discussion to bring this back but given the responses, or lack there of, my self and others have gotten on most of it I figure I may as well let this out now.
A little while back I made a post regarding accessibility options on assist inputs, and later I did get to talk with Liam VERY briefly about it but there were some things i wanted to point out and didn't get to at the time.
I think the game would benefit from an accessibility option to disable assist macro on P+K inputs and have a dedicated assist button.
When i did get to discus this with Liam before the reason I was given was "SG was built to be 6 buttons FULL STOP, adding an option for extra buttons puts you at a disadvantage if you don't have extra buttons on your controller."
Now that's a fair point even if i may disagree being that in the last decade I have not seen a controller produced without 8 or more buttons unless homemade, but that point is still fair.
That is until we remember SG already has an 8 button option for pad and other controllers with right stick options being "right stick assist", even when configuring all controls the game asks you for these inputs.
I know plenty of high level players who play on pad with the advantage of assist macro and dash/PB/other macros, so I feel like this argument is almost disingenuous.
All I'm asking is the OPTION to not have my assist come out because my wrist bumped K when I PB at the cost of having to work harder on routing for losing same frame special + assist.
I don't see why we couldn't have the option to map right stick assist to a button like L1/L2 as right stick up/down and simply add an option to disable the button inputs.
If that's a coding issue I would understand but the reasoning i was given simply doesn't make sense in my opinion, there already is an 8 button option that does give an advantage to other controllers.
I'm not trying to argue or complain, I am just wanting to be able to make the game more approachable for people like myself or at the very least have some clarification as to why we can't.

 

[Liam]

That is until we remember SG already has an 8 button option for pad and other controllers with right stick options being "right stick assist", even when configuring all controls the game asks you for these inputs.

Just to be clear on something, right stick assists are not extra buttons. Even when you are using them, the game is still a six button game. Right stick assists just input regular assist inputs like LP + MK, etc, and they are no different from macros - they are more restrictive actually since they cannot be rebound. If you hold right stick up for example, you cannot press LP because that button is held down. All assist inputs interact this way by preventing your point character from doing something (or forcing them to do something) as if that button is locked out. Adding dedicated assist buttons changes this, and your six attack button state (holding SOID or Fukua shadows etc) never conflicts with assist buttons.

If right stick used dedicated assist call buttons, then SG would be an 8 button game and adding dedicated assist buttons that do what right stick assists do would be fine, because people would wire the right stick pad up/down to their stick anyway.

To the point though: I have no intentions on adjusting assist call macros, adding extra buttons, or how right stick assists work at this time.

 

[Liam]

I'd rather go back to where I could call him, dash forward, and not have him linger so I can call him again.

The total lockout before you can call another M Egret right now is 293F. In retail, the lockout between M Egret is 287F. A difference in 6F for the distance he covers and for the length he lasts feels like a buff to me personally? If you wish to revert it, that is fine, but I don't think it will meaningfully let you call him any faster than before.

 

[hunter half hands]

Just to be clear on something, right stick assists are not extra buttons. Even when you are using them, the game is still a six button game. Right stick assists just input regular assist inputs like LP + MK, etc, and they are no different from macros - they are more restrictive actually since they cannot be rebound. If you hold right stick up for example, you cannot press LP because that button is held down. All assist inputs interact this way by preventing your point character from doing something (or forcing them to do something) as if that button is locked out. Adding dedicated assist buttons changes this, and your six attack button state (holding SOID or Fukua shadows etc) never conflicts with assist buttons.

If right stick used dedicated assist call buttons, then SG would be an 8 button game and adding dedicated assist buttons that do what right stick assists do would be fine, because people would wire the right stick pad up/down to their stick anyway.

To the point though: I have no intentions on adjusting assist call macros, adding extra buttons, or how right stick assists work at this time.

just to be clear i understand how RS works in this case, its just that the argument i was given was "we dont want to give an advantage to a controller for more buttons" which that goes against by adding extra macro options, yes they are the same macro system but still adding an advantage to controllers with access to that. I understand you dont plan to change this but im still gonna continue to make myself heard and known on this in general because in all honesty I have still yet to get a solid reason as to why having the OPTION would be detrimental

 

[Liam]

just to be clear i understand how RS works in this case, its just that the argument i was given was "we dont want to give an advantage to a controller for more buttons" which that goes against by adding extra macro options, yes they are the same macro system but still adding an advantage to controllers with access to that. I understand you dont plan to change this but im still gonna continue to make myself heard and known on this in general because in all honesty I have still yet to get a solid reason as to why having the OPTION would be detrimental

Changing how many macros exist on your controller does not impact what is possible within the current rules of the game. 50 macros on your controller that all interact with the default six buttons I believe is still tournament legal under EVO rules for example, and fine. Separating assist calls to not interact with those six buttons for gameplay is where things start to diverge, certain techniques will only be possible if you are using dedicated assist call buttons. I believe it's intended and designed so that if you have the minimum number of buttons required to play Skullgirls (6), then you should theoretically be able to perform everything in the game.

I don't think it would be "detrimental" fwiw! It's just not in the cards right now. Since I have less than 7 days to try and finalize this patch for consoles this will also be the last time I speak to it, I have to focus on other things that are in scope - my apologies.

 

[oddberry]

does the video straight from computer option nto work? it's not letting me do it directly. i really dont want to make an entire youtube video right now

 

[hunter half hands]

Changing how many macros exist on your controller does not impact what is possible within the current rules of the game. 50 macros on your controller that all interact with the default six buttons I believe is still tournament legal under EVO rules for example, and fine. Separating assist calls to not interact with those six buttons for gameplay is where things start to diverge, certain techniques will only be possible if you are using dedicated assist call buttons. I believe it's intended and designed so that if you have the minimum number of buttons required to play Skullgirls (6), then you should theoretically be able to perform everything in the game.

I don't think it would be "detrimental" fwiw! It's just not in the cards right now. Since I have less than 7 days to try and finalize this patch for consoles this will also be the last time I speak to it, I have to focus on other things that are in scope - my apologies.

i wasnt intending this to be included in this beta cycle by any means, I just wanted to put it out there again while people are actively discussing the game and its health. I'm also not saying to change how the game works but have the option to sacrifice things like same frame assist+special in exchange for not having to worry about the input overlap. by no means should the game no longer be playable on 6 buttons after that any more so than it is less playable now without macros or RS options

 

[oddberry]

does the video straight from computer option nto work? it's not letting me do it directly. i really dont want to make an entire youtube video right now

nvm my files are too big im just gonna make a video

 

[Calexe]

Also I would appreciate it if some Umbrella players could post some of their up to date combos starting from Ravenous/Satiated/Overstuffed, assistless.

 

[oddberry]

its 7 videos bc youtube made it 7 videos but this is some of the overstuffed routing im working with currently. things start falling apart the heavier characters get

 

[tossle]

I understand time is precious now, and so if it's not ideal to test out before pushing for the console update I get it, but I wanted to try and follow up on the proposed change to dahlias' jHK - more specifically the idea to have it hit differently on assist whenever it hits point+assist, (or was it just assist hits?) to avoid situations where the assist bodyblocks a shot for the point and breaks combo. It didn't come to pass when she got her other changes, so I'm left a little curious if it's to be considered still or not in scope right now.

 

[DEMACLIO]

Going to post my umbrella routes in a sec but first I wanted to give my thoughts so far now that I've had more time to play beta

Spoiler: Umbrella

I  love this version of the character. She's SO fun to play, being able to interact will all hunger states more often and more comfortably rules.

People keep wishing for OS hungern rush bounce to return. I still maintain that I think it's fine it it requires OTG to combo from, but I get why people are upset the more I think about it. I've always held myself back from complaining about her DP in general since you can always convert from it meterlessly, I think it's a really strong option to have, but then there's characters like band and eliza who also use their DPs as combo tools and also don't require OTG (ignoring sound stun), so maybe it's not crazy to have the big boingy back. Maybe give it a bigger bounce that still requires OTG? iunno. It would certainly relegate OS to a defensive state if she has a crazy good DP, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. Whatever happens, I'll be happy.

I also agree with giving her ice cream taunt or something to save her from getting lamed out while in starving. I can't say I've had it happen to me super frequently, but it definitely sucks if you're solo or have no assists left and they camp you out the moment you hit ravenous. I definitely don't agree that forcing counterhits on her in starving is fair, she's already getting punished enough.

My biggest wishlist item is auto chomps on salt grinder now that it gives a fixed amount of hunger. I feel like it's a waste of energy to do now, it makes labbing a pain and at times I've found my fingers forget which way to charge after mashing left and right (I am aware I can use LPHP but it always feels weird to do in-game, like you have to time alternating the buttons). Even sometimes I would mash left to right, but ever so incorrectly, so it would give me one or two chomps, giving me significantly less damage overall. It makes sense on beat extend since there are times you don't want to mash it, even if they are few, but for Umbrella I don't think there is a reason not to go max chomps every time anymore. I already put up with annoying microdashes on small characters after using it, at least let me save my left hand's strength @w@

Spoiler: Marie

She's also super fun! But I've definitely felt some friction playing her. I think her up close offense is hard to pull off successfully, most of my hits I tend to score with rising jLP (amazing button) or jMK summon shenanigans with the occasional command grab, which I tend to abuse since most of my pressure tends to get blocked. I'm not sure personally what exactly she'd need to fix this, maybe it's just meant to be one of her weaknesses which is fine, she doesn't exactly play like a filia type, but seeing Sage mention her blockstrings are bad felt a bit validating.

On the dust bunnies, I haven't been too hurt by the nerfs as I never really abused the taunt that much, I thought it was a lame gameplan hahaha. I think if bunny should be better, you could relegate taunt to something else, like giving hilgard one extra hit of armour or something (not sure if that's busted or not, just an example) in favour of giving bunny more hits or whatever else it needs.

For jMK changes, I agree with the sentiment that it's probably a good change but I'm still looking at robo doing jHK + assist and flying away. I don't think robo shouldn't be able to do this, it could simply be that that is robo's gameplan and marie's isn't, but if that's so I think giving marie some extra love on offense wouldn't hurt. M shoulder is super easy to PB and punish for offense, and using H shoulder to reversal or blow through pressure on defense feels like it almost never works, somehow much less consistently than robo's sHP despite both having one hit of armour. I think that would be due to robo's being a normal, so assists are able to be called, it being stationary so it doesn't go under things, and it's a bit faster than H shoulder, so it makes more sense as a reversal (I'm not intending to compare her directly to robo, but just drawing paralells. I'll stop now though lol).

H shoulder though feels like it's telling me not to use it as a reversal every time I use it, which I don't know whether it's meant to be or not. Previously when it had 2 hits of armour, it made sense as a reversal - it was constantly blowing through things not unlike painwheel using charged 2H normals (though tbh maybe people were just getting hit because of day 1 knowledge checks), but because of how slow the windup is, it takes a long time for the actual hit to come out, meaning it gets snuffed out by a second hit super easily.

I still think she's very playable and not a bad character by any stretch, but there are just times where she feels inconsistent in her up-close offense, as I have tried and struggled to convey heheh. I'm sure I'll get better at the character and some of these complaints will dissipate, and people will discover more tech, but I can't deny she feels one-note from time to time.

As always, solid effort and thank you for the amount of care you're putting into this patch Liam <3

 

[DEMACLIO]

Umbrella routes:

 

[Adeveis]

The total lockout before you can call another M Egret right now is 293F. In retail, the lockout between M Egret is 287F. A difference in 6F for the distance he covers and for the length he lasts feels like a buff to me personally? If you wish to revert it, that is fine, but I don't think it will meaningfully let you call him any faster than before.

Perhaps it was just placebo. It definitely feels less effective. However I also didn't have a problem with the old one at all. Thought it worked fine vs any zoner she was up against. I still would prefer the old one but if other Parasouls like the new version, I wouldn't complain about keeping it as is.

 

[Sg Hen]

If you PB her early as possible PBGC punish is still impossible though because of how locked up by hitpause you are,

If you pushblock very soon after the first hit of explosion, within about 15 frames generally I think it's possible to punish robo. Bella seems to be the most capable with PBGC flick or 360 since when the PBGC window happens the explosion is still active but a lot of characters are able to punish with a super still. I know that was technically possible before but between this and the countdown above robo's head it's a lot more consistent.