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Why do you (or don't you) use orange vial

gllt

gllt

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gllt

Can we discuss it pls
 
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For resets it's ok, but usually it's more safe (?) to go for a poison vial.
Also, mashed supers beats some resets.
Would be nice something like mixing vials, like loading L and H and getting 2/3 of the effect of each.
 
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Go into a 200-300 ping contection match. Get a full load of the orange vial. Hit them with it and the proceed to T-bag like a crazed mother fucker, who wants to make sweet sugary love to Gaia.

Do this until your opponent has either controller dropped or Rage Quit.

Rinse and Repeat.
 
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But girls can't love girls.
 
Try recording a long mash of gregor and try to reset while the dummy is trying to mash. Setting as reversal won't illustrate it well.
 
50% chance of mashing it when I tried to get out myself. Had to mash hard. If opponent is doing that, burst baits etc
 
I feel like people don't use input lag vial simply because it isn't a 100% guaranteed damage upgrade. Players are far more focused on ensuring damage is increased to deter getting hit instead of taking the momentum of an ensured hit and making so that they have more advantage for a duration.

Simply put, people would rather poison than make sure you can't retaliate-- at least, they won't waste a combo on it, because that's what a reset is for.

Answer:
I actually used stun and lag vials for my very short Valentine career along with a nice Cere assist like Excella / Diamond Drop / LnL. It was incredibly nice to be able to do IAD and have a threat coming and my opponent would either have to take the setup and let me get another setup in (stun), or guess my next move and eat dirt (lag).

It's good.

(Although I feel like this kind of thing goes deeper-- especially with Potential On Point and our Ensemble choices)
 
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Shin ATproof said:
Man, it's like I'm a fucking prophet and finally people are starting to see what the gods have whispered to me in the last year.

You're my prophet, dude, lmao.
 
Bless you, my child.



Seriously though, that crossunder in that first video is hella legit. I defy anyone to block that shit on reaction! Especially if you decide to go with an IAD j.HP.
 
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Its also really good if you hit an assist with it. Which i never do, but i should probably try
 
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I don't play Valentine much, but when I do I just always use purple vial, because I want damage. I don't really focus on resets with Valentine. But over a few months @Shin ATproof has found some dirty ass setups for Valentine with orange Vial. (HATE YOU SHIN AND THAT SET UP <3)
 
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I use it all the time because I'm bad at jumping backwards and doing j.HP...

I think it's gotten me resets before though...
 
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It's a tool to make resets slightly better in a game with brutally unreactable resets already which is mostly played online with lag anyway
 
I actually use the green vial most. It's a weird habit now. I think I used to be all over the place with which vial to use and for a while I used the purple one. I rarely ever used the orange one. I should start mixing stuff up, I guess.
 
Lag vial only seems legit at not level one levels. at level one you can still guess ahead of time (which is what you do for resets anyway) so I don't see its use in any way other than things that will require a reaction in a split second. (but for resets you're just gonna guess anyway? so it just seems like whatever)

It would be cool if lag vial added start up and not just hold your input for a few frames imagine you mess up the opponents combos because moves now take a little longer to chain into.
('cause when the opponent hits they can just press their inputs ahead of time and it'll all still combo kinda like a buffer of sorts)

Not sure I made any sense but that's my input.
 
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Stuff said:
Lag vial only seems legit at not level one levels. at level one you can still guess ahead of time (which is what you do for resets anyway) so I don't see its use in any way other than things that will require a reaction in a split second. (but for resets you're just gonna guess anyway? so it just seems like whatever)

It would be cool if lag vial added start up and not just hold your input for a few frames imagine you mess up the opponents combos because moves now take a little longer to chain into.
('cause when the opponent hits they can just press their inputs ahead of time and it'll all still combo kinda like a buffer of sorts)

Not sure I made any sense but that's my input.
I think I understand what you mean, like it's probably better for resets like end your air combo with j.LK, land on the other side of them, try to get them to react to the fact that it's a crossup then WOOPS NO and grab them. I don't know if you can combo into orange vial, keep the combo going, and then do that reset, but if you could I would get hit with it like 100% of the time
 
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Yeah all the syringes have enough hit stun that you can combo into lag vial and then go for a reset at your own discretion; it's why its such an effective tool for resets. Even with a level 1 you're making your resets easier than doing them raw and you can keep your opponent guessing trying to make them do the wrong inputs.
 
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Load poison vial to use in combos. Got an opportunity to safely load another vial? Go for orange.
 
Colossi said:
Load poison vial to use in combos. Got an opportunity to safely load another vial? Go for orange.

Tried this. Worked really fine. Never been a fan of orange vial though. I'm more used to the green one
 
mcpeanuts said:
I think I understand what you mean, like it's probably better for resets like end your air combo with j.LK, land on the other side of them, try to get them to react to the fact that it's a crossup then WOOPS NO and grab them. I don't know if you can combo into orange vial, keep the combo going, and then do that reset, but if you could I would get hit with it like 100% of the time

The jLK crossunder and/or dash for a second crossunder would work. You could also do:

corner
cHP jHP adc jMP(3) jHP
jMK Orange Vial djLP jMP
sLP sLK and
  • backdash IAD jHP (feint) low
  • backdash IAD jMP high

Also jMK Orange Vial djLP wait airthrow is as obnoxious as can be.

The hard part is still/always justifying its use over the unscaled damage you'd get through a pink vial because fuckkkkkkkk pink vial damage is so good.
 
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I mostly use green vial but I should probably start using purple and orange.
 
It's hard to measure the efficacy of orange vial, since every post-orange vial setup is a reset or bait or read, so it's impossible to really be sure whether the setup worked because they couldn't react in time, or they just made a wrong read on defense.

Because of this, my brain doesn't go "yay" whenever I successfully use OJ Vial. Does OJ Vial still make assists come out delayed?
 
yes but if they mash it it'll come out as it would normally if you started mashing it as soon as you got hit by the vial
 
What I mean is, if you hit the assist with OJ vial, will the assist itself be delayed? I remembered that was a thing a while ago but I don't know if it stayed or was taken out.
 
ClarenceMage said:
What I mean is, if you hit the assist with OJ vial, will the assist itself be delayed?
Yes.
 
Nope. The assist itself doesn't do an input so there's nothing to delay other than the assist call (since that is a button press but the point character isn't lag vialed the assist is so that doesn't get delayed at all).

(Which is why I think adding start up to moves is cooler than delaying an input.)

EDIT: I tested this with level 3 vial which causes very noticeable input lag but beat extend still showed up and had regular start up despite being lag vialed. (btw how great is it that vial effects don't go away if val gets hit by normals in beta)
 
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An assist hit with an orange vial is delayed while orange'd, though.

Best way to see for yourself: training mode, Val vs a 2-char team. Record the dummy doing call assist and something right after. Play it a few times in slow motion and memorise point vs assist char position during the call, best pick one or two distinctive frames for it.

Then load an orange vial, play the dummy recording, hit the assist with the vial. Play the recording again in slow motion, you'll notice the orange'd assist is delayed compared to what you memorised a few moments ago.

COUNTER EDIT:
Stuff said:
EDIT: I tested this with level 3 vial which causes very noticeable input lag but beat extend still showed up and had regular start up despite being lag vialed. (btw how great is it that vial effects don't go away if val gets hit by normals in beta)
I did it with a dash assist a few minutes before my fist post. Retail, lvl 3 vial, 10% slow motion. The delay was slight, just a few frames, but it was there.
 
Looks like you're right I went ahead and recorded them though 'cause I'm not gonna look at slo-mo (although I think frameskip might've affected this recording. But there's 9f delay just like the frame data says it does)
 
i thought, if you hit an assist with orange vial, the assist gets extra vulnerable startup frames? I remember hearing this somewhere

@Mike_Z is this true
 
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From what I noticed, no. It seems to be the assist call gets delayed because I still see only two vulnerable frames and the same start up beat extend has both of which were what I was looking at and that was what prompted my mistake.
 
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