Val's c.mp

[Colossi]

This move is pretty much nearly useless

• CONS
  • Small hitboxes
    
  • Fast, but not enough
  • Small hitboxes
    
  • Deals less damage than every part of s.mp and less damage than c.mk (that btw hits low)
    
  • Small hitboxes
    
  • Doesn't hit low
  • Small hitboxes
  • Hurtboxes don't match visual effect
  • Small hitboxes
  • Can't anti-air effectively
  • Small hitboxes
  • 14 frames startup
    • Her s.mp is more useful and it's 13f, s.mk/c.mk are also 14, but are useful
      
    • Just as an example, Fukua's c.mp is 9f, and s.mp/s.mk/c.mk are 10f
  • Small hitboxes

• PROS
  • Best move to stop SSJ, but still needs timing
    • Backjumping j.hk can also punish and give you a heavy counterhit combo starting on stage 1
    • Also, best way to punish SSJ is still blocking
  • Val keeps a good position while doing it
  • Pushes the enemy a little away and is -1 onblock, but who the hell will use this if you can cancel anything into L bypass (-4f onblock) after and deal some chip damage?
  • ... that's it
  • Can punish some specific jump-ins, but too slow to beat some crosses like Filia's air dash j.lk j.hk

I'm not asking to make this move a super good move, but extend her hitboxes enough to work as a anti-air better than s.mp or s.hk and to work as a way to pop bursts.
OR
Remove multihits from it. Combo damage will increase and it's enough to make the move viable. Also, Val has enough multihits moves already(c.lk, c.mp, s.mp, s.mk, j.lk, j.mp).

 

[gllt]

Yo Duckator anti aired the hell out of me with that move as Parasoul, FYI

 

[mcpeanuts]

I don't agree at all that this isn't an effective anti air. Back in vanilla my pal Alex played solo Val and he would anti air everything with c.MP, and I don't think the move has been changed since vanilla. Honestly if you're going to make a thread about how a standing or crouching normal isn't useful outside of combos, this is sort of a bizarre one to pick, since it's one of the handful of non-jumping normals in this game that can be used effectively at neutral.

 

[Broken Loose]

Today, I learned that a disjointed hitbox larger than your character's body counts as a "small, small, small, small, small, small, small" hitbox.

 

[Colossi]

I still don't agree with it being a good move. I've been practicing with Caio to use it against some jump-ins like Parasoul's j.HP and j.LP, PW's j.mk, j.mp and j.hp, etc. Sometimes works in reaction, but startup is too long (works well against PW's charged j.hp). If you use it a little bit earlier, sometimes doesn't work because it whiffs and you get counterhitted. It may be theorically a great move, but honestly I don't see anyone really using it effectively.

Also, s.mp and c.mp comparison.

s.mp has a higher reach and is one frame faster than c.mp. Even tho it makes you more vulnerable, seems to anti air more effectively.

 

[DDB]

Yes, Val needs better normals. She's clearly lacking in them.

 

[dragonos451]

looks like the perfect counter to bella j.mp to my eyes...
probably fucks up filia iad j.hp too.
stop whinning.

 

[Fedora_Ninja]

Needs titty jiggle added to pros.

 

[Adeveis]

Maybe you haven't seen anyone use it effectively, but I've seen/used it as an anti air plenty of times. It's better when reacting to jumpins than s.hk. It also restands and combos into s.hp if that is a plus.

 

[Hilary]

This thread is great.

 

[Colossi]

why

Also, I also came up with the idea that I'm plainly dumb and bad at this game, because it's not possible that I'm the only one that can't use this move for anythang.

 

[dekillsage]

pls buff

 

[mcpeanuts]

Small hitboxes

 

[Hilary]

Small hitboxes

but there's a lot of them.

it's almost like how a ball of wasps/bees has a bunch of constituent parts that make the whole thing really scary to put your hand into.

 

[alexpi]

wait, i thought we liked bees.