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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

LK Hairball is useful if you just killed with s.HK in the corner, and wanna push them back into it after they bounce away.

Beyond that, mind games?
 
When I played Filia I used to end blockstrings with L Hairball + call Hornet Bomber then go for another mixup. Using H didn't give me as much frame advantage. This probably doesn't work with Lock N Load as your assist.
 
joshb911 said:
1. Your not lab zero so your opinion does'nt matter
Pheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew boy.
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But on a more serious note, if you want to just throw out requests like that, you're gonna need better reasoning. If you get the wrong move, that's completely your fault.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
When I played Filia I used to end blockstrings with L Hairball + call Hornet Bomber then go for another mixup. Using H didn't give me as much frame advantage. This probably doesn't work with Lock N Load as your assist.

This is what I do when I play Filia bomber. It's pretty good

don't make hairball drill
 
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joshb911 said:
1. Your not lab zero so your opinion does'nt matter

2. A simple I disagree here's why would suffice

3. Explain and support your argument

4. request for air grab to cancel air fireball into otg setup (get at me did)

You're*, doesn't*
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
overall isa it was meant to be:

i don't want anymore changes to fukua. she's ok as she is at the moment.

What i would really like to see is using shadows in the air using the j hp animation but that's NEVER going to happen
Edit: also the Air shadow allows ground bounce just for shits and giggles
Save it for Skullgirls OMEGA.
 
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I think it is an unequivocal buff for Filia... possibly a huge buff even.

The j.hk mix-up seems more predicated on a near invisible cross-up. That it is also an overhead is merely a bonus. She already has fast overheads, so now she has a high-low (that may or may not cross-up) and a low-throw option... both of which end in full combos or Filia's amazing reset game.
 
Filia current jHK change sounds like the least nerfed of all the jHK changes tested. Give her a low assist and you get guess if a high or low will hit first or if its going to be the mid then low since the jumping mid wont trigger unblockable protection.
 
dekillsage said:
Painwheel is so good vs Filia

Up until about a month ago i was more or less of the same opinion. Painwheels j.mp blocks off most avenues of what filia wants to do and j.hk lands on filia and painwheel can make lk airball wiff pretty easily.

Thats what i thought until playing against new anti pw tech that folks has. Which i already stated. Dash jump j.hp xx j.hp

pw doesnt have any great answers for this. She cant make it wiff under her and she has a very hard time out ranging it. She can stop flying... But thats kind of a shit option. She can thresher the j.hp or buer them... But those are also shit options. She can fly at a lower height than normal, but that leaves her open to iad stuff much more easily.

There is no good answer to it. Pw just has to deal with the best that she can, which isnt very well. But dont take my word for it. Watch some pw versus filia vids and see how many filias use that pattern for anti air aggression... You will find exactly 0 players. It is unknown and unused technology. Try it out against painwheel before you dismiss out of hand.
 
s.mp, It's why I bothered trying to learn the ch combo. I find that it is a decent answer to this tactic if you can convert off it.
 
For me the bane of my existence while flying is lk.airball > IAD stuffs.

I don't think it is free for Filia by any means, but I think it is overstated how good it is for PW. Filia has the tools to get in and once in PW does not have the tools to get her back out.

There is a lot of jumping backwards putting up the j.mp shield hoping to catch a Filia and confirm... but there's always a corner somewhere.
 
Triblue said:
s.mp, It's why I bothered trying to learn the ch combo. I find that it is a decent answer to this tactic if you can convert off it.
no one decent is going to be doing that pattern while the opponent is grounded. If they are just guessing the air to air then you may have a point, but folks doesnt and when ive played with the pattern to study it, i was guessing a bit with it, but i could always not guess with it.

Im thinking that maybe you think I'm talking about instant air dash stuff? I'm not. This is a dash jump into an early j.hp the. Airdash cancels into another j.hp which continues moving forward and affects a much higher and further away spacing than instant airdash stuff.

The pattern I'm talking about traverses the full length of the screen from fully zoomed out to point blank. Try it in training mode. Pick filia and walk backwards till she is cant walk backwards anymore but her back isnt to the corner. Then just dash and do immediate j.hp and immediately cancel it into its fastest timing airdash j.hp.

You will have moved full screen and will be right in the opponents face, this tactic has serious range. And when you do smart shit like do wiffed iad into midrange and then do the dash j.hp tactic... Its near impossible to outrange. So pw has to unfly or ground herself preemptively and thats where filia iad stuff takes over. And charged st.mp is an easy break for filia iad j.mp so it isnt something that you will be using with any kind of consistency against good players.
 
joshb911 said:
Can I make a request for Fukua? Can you make it so that tender embrace and snuggle what ever the hell its called (the two QC grabs) does not auto correct when crossing up/under?
Short answer no, it's not going to be changed. Longer answer you never have to worry about whether you crossed up or not, you do the motion the same.
Since you clarified this as wanting to do the motion backward - it works this way for everything in the game. If your character is facing to the right, you do motions as if they are facing to the right. So if you slide under with a normal you do motions the way the normal is facing. MvC2 and all the old versus games (pretty much the only games besides SG that let you whiff cancel) work this wayif you cross up while in an attack, and so do most other game engines. For example, if you do a rekka with Fei Long or Yang and it goes underneath them, if you want to keep doing rekkas you need to do them facing the original way rather than backward. Same deal.

obregon said:
Yeah, it's like a throw. I get like 4.1k off the first raw spike combo I tried. You'd definitely want to reset off it early.
Oops I forgot to mention that in the notes, yeah it scales. Lemme add that.

obregon said:
The standard encore corner combo with Filia where you do a launch j.HP j.HK xx H airball adc j.MK(2) j.HP drops most of the time on most characters at either the j.MK or the j.HP. I can get it occasionally but it used to be universal and undroppable. Just saying in case Mike is looking for stuff that's gotten off with the changes.
You mean in the corner? I just did it on every character, with the same timing for everyone. It's not the same as the old timing, which is going to be the case for a lot of things, but it still works so I count this as a pass.
s.HP, wait before jumping /\ j.HP small pause j.HK xx HK ball, airdash j.MK(2)->j.HP \/ dash s.LP.
 
I figure that^ depends on whether you do the QCF/QCB in a "buffer period" at the end of the Fake Kanchou (you're still counted as "in a special that started left from the opponent", so to get your QCF you have to do QCR), or a few frames afterwards, where the Fake Kanchou has finished (you're now considered to be on the right of the opponent, so you need to do QCL to get your QCF)
 
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joshb911 said:
No Isa when I cross under using cr. mp into cr. hk into grab I want it to be QCF grab for the low start up grab not QCF and get tender embrace (its just a bit confusing and I could probably practice it but 0 fucks given so....)

You have to do the motion based on your character's facing, not your position relative to the opponent.
 
Yeah. That all is probably the reason. But that doesn't mean I'm any less stressed when after moving behind them I do qcb and get qcf. Having to worry about whether or not I'm a frame too early is stressful when successfully landing the next reset is the difference between winning a match and going home defeated.
 
Zidiane said:
Yeah. That all is probably the reason. But that doesn't mean I'm any less stressed when after moving behind them I do qcb and get qcf. Having to worry about whether or not I'm a frame too early is stressful when successfully landing the next reset is the difference between winning a match and going home defeated.
I agree, and that's why I hate it
But it is what it is
And it's "intended" to work that way
 
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First impressions:

Have mixed feelings about some of the changes. Filia is trading her high/low/crossup mixup for low/throw/crossup. It's definitely nice to be able to combo off ground throw without meter, but I'm very much missing the ability to overhead in close-quarters outside of the corner. I might be asking too much, but could maybe one of her other aerials have the hitbox reworked a tad to allow to overhead at close range? Last I checked, Filia's j.LK looked like it could maybe have a hitbox on the foot that is tucked in. So maybe extend the hitbox for that slightly downward and not allowing it to crossup at point blank? (Can currently crossup characters like cerebella pretty consistently at point blank range) Ringlet change is also pretty nice to use vs peacock.

I also like the changes done with Valentine, but I don't think she should be doing as much damage as I seem to be getting. I managed 7.8k damage on most of the characters with 1 meter. I'd like for her to keep the bypass change but maybe some slight alterations to damage somewhere is in order.

The added leg hurtboxes on cerebella is a godsend to my combos that were really strict on her.

@Mike_Z
Since you are going over character hurtboxes, I'd like to make a suggestions. Could the hurtbox on Peacock's hat during her crouch idle be made to not bob back and forth and just expand the hurtbox to cover all the space it currently moves between? Because it moves around, it makes certain attacks hit or miss depending on the position of her hat during her idle crouch animation. Looking over other character hurtboxes, their head hurtbox doesn't move around like Peacock's but accommodates all the space where the head moves around.

The most obvious way of seeing this for yourself is to corner peacock and constantly do IAD j.HP on her with Filia. It'll randomly hit or miss depending on the position of the hat. This issue is not limited to Filia's attacks.

EDIT: Here's an example:http://www.twitch.tv/remikz/b/582837647?t=30s @0:30

Also, would it be possible to make Double's Flesh step not push the opponent if you pass through them while next to them? This is why: http://www.twitch.tv/remikz/b/582849862?t=50m30s @50:30
 
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Im used to third strike so the whiff normal for cross up into super does not apply in that game. Ken ex tatsu into shuryuken into SA3 does not require you to use the reverse the input for srk for it to work you do it on the side you land on. (I just want continuity in my games sorry if I offended any one....I'm very defensive)....

Also I dont know if this has been brought up but is there any way to make vals cr.lk 0 on block and make 2*cr.lk -2 on block cause to make it safe you have to throw away some potential damage with your hit confirmation of 2* cr.lk to make it 0 on block....Doesnt really make sense to me 0_o
 
joshb911 said:
Im used to third strike so the whiff normal for cross up into super does not apply in that game. Ken ex tatsu into shuryuken into SA3 does not require you to use the reverse the input for srk for it to work you do it on the side you land on. (I just want continuity in my games sorry if I offended any one....I'm very defensive)....

There is a lot of risk inherent in doing crossups; you have to jump, then dash, then there's your aerial normal startup. You risk being beaten by a DP, or them mashing something, while doing all of this. A lot of the only advantage of crossing up , is screwing up someone's inputs, whether it's for blocking or for some big super or DP they're trying to mash.

Autocorrect moves should be thought of an advantage, but inputs don't autocorrect so that cerebella players for instance can't just nail everything with some fancy command grab option select that someone finds.

joshb911 said:
Also I dont know if this has been brought up but is there any way to make vals cr.lk 0 on block and make 2*cr.lk -2 on block cause to make it safe you have to throw away some potential damage with your hit confirmation of 2* cr.lk to make it 0 on block....Doesnt really make sense to me 0_o

I think that the reasoning for this is that your c.lp is faster? I'm no character expert but -2 is still not THAT bad, I would hate to give her the filia stanky leg, and have to block confirmable +0 low/grab into easy full combos for the rest of my life (the risk/reward seems very skewed there).
 
She still has a high/low, right? She has other attacks that hit fast overhead like j.lp.

While her high/low took a hit for sure, she now has a high/low/throw/cross-up. Right?
 
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Spencer said:
She still has a high/low, right? She has other attacks that hit fast overhead like j.lp.

While her high/low took a hit for sure, she now has a high/low/throw/cross-up. Right?

Technically she can still hit high with j.LK, but not a single aerial hits overhead in close-quarters like j.HK could, you have to be standing a bit back from the opponent.
 
@Mike_Z for filia jhk, is it that you think it still does too much, and you rather it either be a crossup tool OR a high (but not both)? I'm genuinely curious. The way I look at these experiments is that by giving her midscreen meterless grab conversions and a crossup (with red bounce), and taking away the high property, you're seeking to balance the character a little more. But the way I see it is that while she becomes a better battery (filia grab always seems like it gives a ton of meter by itself) from being able to combo from grab midscreen and continue into new mixup (which you can still do with select assists even in retail), she loses out on extra high pressure from blockstrings like iad jlp jlk jhk, loses out on a good damaging opener (in more instances than just crossing up), and obviously a great instant overhead. Also, giving jhk red bounce gives her like one true crossup setup higher in the air (to my knowledge.) She can do other crossup setups and even if they get hit upbacking with blue bounce version not everyone techs it, leading to what is essentially what we have in the beta anyways. And if they did tech it they either guessed you would go for crossup high and upback+tech to get out of pressure (@dekillsage ) or were mashing. First case is beat by basic low, second by burst bait/uncombo and block. Throw loses to both those things as well, so giving her a midscreen grab conversion seems a little moot.

Filia gets her big damage from being a bully until you get them to a corner so you get a true high/low/throw where her high gives you the damage. This is what makes blocking her in the corner so scary. By removing the damaging overhead starter at this point now, while she can still go high, it is not as fast, and scales her first three hits more (having to do iad any aerial normal into jhk instead of things like jhk adc jmp jhk for starters. This damages her pressure game as well seeing as how you have to use your air dash to go high right away), leading to less real soviet damage. If I HAD to choose between crossup jHk and overhead jhk, I would choose overhead.

If anyone else has thoughts or reasoning these new changes are better for her please enlighten me. This is just how I see these changes.
 
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Man I'd be fine if she had an overhead that scaled her damage, I just really wish she had a close range overhead still.
 
I've read more of the thread after making my response, and seeing the other benefits of the ringlet buff (neutral game buff essentially too). I'm also really torn on crossup vs overhead. Like, crossup is really good for her midscreen mixup, while overhead is super good for the corner game and kinda good for her midscreen mixup. She keeps the same amount of mixup with both instances pretty much, but loses damage in the corner for one. I think I'd still lean towards keeping it as a high now, but still would like to see more discussion to flesh out the topic a little more before coming to a conclusion
 
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RemiKz said:
Man I'd be fine if she had an overhead that scaled her damage, I just really wish she had a close range overhead still.
pls no, my burst bait combos will suffer ; ;

edit:if it only scaled on the first hit I would agree I guess. if jhk always scaled then lol no
 
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Almost any burst bait combo will kill with a HP starter.
 
s.HP, wait before jumping /\ j.HP small pause j.HK xx HK ball, airdash j.MK(2)->j.HP \/ dash s.LP.

Ah, that fixes it, cheers.

If j.HK is getting nerfed further beyond the hurtboxes, I'd rather it be the overhead part than that nasty anti-crossup thing just because it felt so gross. I think overhead is a stronger tool, but if she's gonna get compensating neutral buffs it should come out however Mike wants it to come out without having to do something that feels as hacky as a crossup stopper exception for the move.
 
joshb911 said:
1. Your not lab zero so your opinion does'nt matter
While this guy comes across as an ass with this statement, he is actually 100% right about this.

Ok bye.
 
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guitalex2007 said:
While this guy comes across as an ass with this statement, he is actually 100% right about this.

Ok bye.
Except Mike Z expirements with things he doesn't seem too happy about when enough people express an opinion...so they matter...to the extent Mike Z allows them to matter.
 
None of you seem to understand the context of my statement...... I was told to shut the fuck up and I retaliated by listing my issues...... The fact of the matter is I do not honestly believe that your opinions have no power I was just trying to defend myself against Twerk.....so everyone lets just get off this topic and move on to more relevant discussions
 
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