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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I dont need a reversal indicator in my life, but one would make the game feel a bit more polished... Its what the cool kids do.

Who needs to be cool though when youve got robots with laser beams to do your bidding.
 
Dime_x said:
St.mk however has much more priority than c.MP, but i dont find that use particularly powerful in my own games as an assist and have found that trying to use it that way is a good way to get happy birthdayed.
Priority literally does not exist in this game. The closest comparison would be disjointed hitboxes, of which c.MP is much less vulnerable than s.MK.
 
he doesn't mean literal priority like move A beats move B, he means hitbox interactions....

5MK has a better hitbox than 2MP as an anti air, is what he is saying. I don't know why you couldn't get that from context.
 
Mike_Z said:
GG, MvC2, etc do not have reversal indicators. I see them as unnecessary. Why do you need one? If your move comes out it comes out, if it doesn't then you messed up.
If my move comes out and hits the opponent, it is very possible that it was just my opponent who messed up, and I didn't actually do the right thing.
Or that the gap between his two moves is just awfully large, and I misjudge this as having done a proper reversal. Or various other possibilities..

---

Base examples:

My opponent hits me with a sliding knockdown, then dashes up and attempts a meaty cLK. I super him in the face. Yay, clearly I did a good reversal!
- In fact, he just screwed up his timing and the cLK whiffed through me during my wakeup frames; while my "reversal" actually came out 2 frames too late and would've lost if the cLK had indeed been meaty.

I block a Filia sHP (-4 on block) and input SSJ for the punish. BAM Filia gets the CH red flash broken heart cus I am ROLLIN ALL OVER HER! GG reversal punish
- In fact, I was wayyyyyyyyyyyy too late on my "reversal" SSJ and just hit Filia out of trying to cLK me after the sHP

I am playing Parasoul and trying to reversal vs a guy whom I expect to do a restand into mixup. He does the restand, I attempt to Pillar, I get hit.
- Did this happen because I missed the reversal window, or because I fumbled my inputs (getting a jump-HK and then being hit out of jump startup)?

Fighting vs a Parasoul that likes to do cMK 4HK on block, and I 'reversal' him for it every time. A bit later, I block another cMK, reversal, and get hit by cHK. Repeatedly.
- cMK cHK has a 1f gap, so one CAN reversal there. However, I will miss said reversal every time, because I kept getting positive reinforcement that my timing for the reversal after cMK 4HK was correct - when it fact it was not at all, and I just managed to hit him anyway because there is a 5f gap between those moves

I am playing as BigBand and got knocked down. My opponent seems to attempt some kinda weird setup; trying to reversal with L.Beat Extend, I get counterhit and die.
- Did I just happen to fuck up the DP motion (getting a "reversal" cLP), or was his setup a meaty? No way to tell?

I spent some hours in training mode, figuring out how to airdash crossup in a way that dodges reversal Pillar via being in the deadzone at the right time. The next time I fight a Parasoul, I attempt it, and.. get hit
- Did I screw up my timing, or did I do it right, but my opponent ~did not actually do a reversal~ and hit me with the Pillar via delaying it by some frames?

Etc there are probably countless similar examples to this.

---

It makes the game extremely bad at teaching the player through ~just playing~, as I am never sure whether what I did had the right timing, or just happened to work anyway.

I will play an FT50 vs an Eliza player Bob, feel proud that during the course of the set I learned how to punish Sekhmet Axe consistently, ..
.. and then I fight against a different Eliza player - who jumps my every throw; forcing me to recognize that I am completely mistiming my throw"punish",
and it just counterhit Bob every time because he would follow up any blocked Axe with attempting to 2LP me.

Something like "trying to learn how to time your reversal after getting hard knockdowned" was never something I recognized as being forced to spend training mode hours on;
I will just play games, and try it out. I will get hit some times but whatever, it is more fun to learn this way rather than spending even more time with savestates.
- And then I learned a timing that would hit my opponent every time, and was settled ..
.. But magically lost the ability to do this from one day to the next, and instead got hit every time. What gives??
Turns out my timing was wrong from the start, and I just hit them every time because they hadn't practiced how to do meaties after slide KD, instead just playing it by ear (and apparently they were deaf).
Now I had to completely unlearn a timing which I had slowly improved over the course of countless matches, all my attempts at learning it during the game were a complete waste of time, and I needed to step into training mode after all.

---

I do not see them as unnecessary at all..
 
IsaVulpes said:
I am playing as BigBand and got knocked down. My opponent seems to attempt some kinda weird setup; trying to reversal with L.Beat Extend, I get counterhit and die.
- Did I just happen to fuck up the DP motion (getting a "reversal" cLP), or was his setup a meaty? No way to tell?
Or did you reversal with a move that is not invincible on the first frame, like LP Beat Extend? :^P

Anyway, I understand your point. I still don't agree it's necessary, though.
 
Mike_Z said:
Or did you reversal with a move that is not invincible on the first frame, like LP Beat Extend? :^P
That was my point

I get knocked down, my opponent does some weird setup, I try to reversal with L.Beat Extend, I get CHd
- Did this happen because I fucked up the DP motion, getting an s/c LP instead
- Or was my reversal proper but his attack was a meaty, hitting L.BE out of the 1f vuln startup
This would be a relevant distinction to make, so I know whether I should try to Beat Extend again the next time he does this setup

BE is kind of a bad example cus I could always just choose a different BE or Brass or whatever, but you get the idea (I woulda used L.Bomber, but that doesn't have vuln startup anymore)
 
IsaVulpes said:
This would be a relevant distinction to make, so I know whether I should try to Beat Extend again the next time he does this setup
BE is kind of a bad example cus I could always just choose a different BE or Brass or whatever, but you get the idea (I woulda used L.Bomber, but that doesn't have vuln startup anymore)
But this logic is awful. Why would you reversal with something not-invincible in the hopes that your opponent screws up?

Also, why would you not get a reversal message for s./c.LP? I did that for PBGC and everyone complained so now it's on everything...
 
In lieu of BGM, today I'd like to present a useful bit of knowledge:

DHCs are not affected by hitstop, so you can do them even when you can't do anything else. (In SG terms, that's uh...Blockbuster Sequels, right? :^)

General
- Calling assists in dummy recordings As Reversal now works.
Note: doing special+assist, like QCT+LP+MK, As Reversal will NOT work because that's not possible. If the special is a true reversal your character never goes through a neutral frame, so calling assists is never allowed.
- Mucked with default assist types some more. Thanks for the feedback.
- Fixed extra weird way of inputting command throws. Thanks Izzmo!
- Assist commands (P+K) will no longer trigger the followups for multiple same-button-press normal attacks. For example, s.LP, LP+MK used to give you s.LPx2, now it does not. Thanks Skarmand.
- Bugfix: Training dummy will no longer sometimes dash after pushblocking.

MsFortune
- Headless airdash height limit -2f. Was +4f from head-on, now is +2f from head-on.
Painwheel
- Mess with levels on new VO. Thanks Elky_Dori.
RoboFortune
- Intro animation!
- j.HP projectile 2f faster startup, +2f hitpause, +1f hitstun. Now combos from j.LP and j.LK. Thanks MegamanDS #Top300Fukua.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/208610/announcements/detail/195115947981090064
 
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>Assist commands (P+K) will no longer trigger the followups for multiple same-button-press normal attacks. For example, s.LP, LP+MK used to give you s.LPx2, now it does not. Thanks Skarmand.

T-this wasn't intended?

I legit used this for a few specific things, not that fussed about it going away but nonetheless I thought it was actually useful that assist inputs could do a follow up and call assist at the same time.
 
I like the change to the arrangement of the character roster. It looks quite nice and that I can now see Fukua. It always bothered me that there was a square 'empty'.
 
GpG65C7.png
but yeah, airdash change is cool, but I still think headless is way worse than head-on
 
Hi hello I would like to say as a H pinion user that M pinion is for big nerds. but yeah, i've seen both assists about as much as the other (which isn't too often) but H pinion leads into some extremely cool things with some characters (Especially Big Band) and I love it
 
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Domo said:
Hi hello I would like to say as a H pinion user that M pinion is for big nerds. Really though, H pinion leads into some extremely cool things with some characters (Especially Big Band) and I love it

I like to call it and j.mp with Squigly to play a nice game of catch with myself.

That said, M does seem reasonable since it gives a (small) taste of the awesomeness of H while still being less specific.

@Skarmand

Agreed... clonks my bonkers too.
 
dekillsage said:
lol its worse because its cooldown/recovery takes forever.
It ain't that bad. If the opponent overcommits to the punishing the head then they leave themselves open. If the Fortune just refuses to protect the head then, well, that's their fault.
 
Mike already buffed headless. Twice. More even.

Also I like the iad lockout change. 10f iad lockout really bugged me but 8f lockout feels alright.
 
the assist button still activates fortunes head. IDK if it should be like that.
 
Tank said:
the assist button still activates fortunes head. IDK if it should be like that.
It's known.
That's why the default assist 2 macro was changed from MK HP to MP HK.
To avoid using HP and moving around the head.

Edit: CalerenceMage y i otta
 
Tank said:
the assist button still activates fortunes head. IDK if it should be like that.
This is not as easy to take care of since the head is negative-edge, and there are situations where you might accidentally release HP and some kick button at the same time, so I kinda have to leave it. :^(

alexpi said:
Swear to god, even the game designer doesn't know the name of his stuff.
I know 'em, doesn't mean I like 'em. :^P
We couldn't use DHC because MvC2 used it officially. Aww.

@dekillsage @Skarmand etc
DHCs have been like that since forever, and are like that in MvC2 also. Hee hee. In MvC3 not only are they like that, but your DHC input takes priority over the opponent's super input.
Though for what it's worth, everything assist-based is like that in SG, so if you absolutely feel like calling an assist to take some hits for you you can do that post-flash too.
 
- Assist commands (P+K) will no longer trigger the followups for multiple same-button-press normal attacks. For example, s.LP, LP+MK used to give you s.LPx2, now it does not. Thanks Skarmand.
This was legitimately useful for incorporating assists in combos, and you could still get assist calls without chaining the attack by just pressing any of the multitude of other button combinations
Maybe it got in the way for people who use assist macros or something?
(I use this literally all the time)
 
Does the normal in that instance never come out? Or is it kept from coming out when an assist is available?
 
zeknife said:
This was legitimately useful for incorporating assists in combos, and you could still get assist calls without chaining the attack by just pressing any of the multitude of other button combinations
Maybe it got in the way for people who use assist macros or something?
(I use this literally all the time)


I havent messed around with it, but i dont like this change in general. It seems to want to cater to a niche idea without taking everyone else into account (who have gotten used to the old way), imho.

I also dont like the idea of people using assist macros to do moves besides get out assists, but thats another thing for another time, or not, i guess.
 
Prefer the old way of assist calls. The p+k following up multi part attacks was really useful in calling assist in combos and felt natural, now it feels clunky and random especially if you are only using 6 buttons instead of assist macros.
 
I am baffled that people like getting normal followups with assist macros, like Val s.MP MP. You can achieve the same thing by plinking the assist input or hitting assist then s.MP again fast. If the macro doesn't do it, then you can choose to get the assist and the normal followup, or the assist and no normal followup. If you want the old method of assist macros causing extra normal chains, you are advocating giving less options to the player.
 
Mike_Z said:
NCR might be stretching it, but if Beo isn't out by NWM/CB I'll be crying.
.
We don't have a "I hope Big Band is out by NCR otherwise McPeanuts is fucked" situation this year, so it isn't a problem if Beowulf isn't out by then.

Real talk though, I just want to say that Beta feels like 99% perfect to me. One thing I would like to ask you is about Meter Gain for the person getting hit. At the last NorCal local we were talking about how the person getting hit generates so much meter. Is there any chance of you tweaking this? I am very curious to see how lowering this would affect the game. Spending meter is fun though, and there are lots of things to spend it on in a team game, so I wouldn't like to see it toned down too much.
 
ClarenceMage said:
I am baffled that people like getting normal followups with assist macros, like Val s.MP MP. You can achieve the same thing by plinking the assist input or hitting assist then s.MP again fast. If the macro doesn't do it, then you can choose to get the assist and the normal followup, or the assist and no normal followup. If you want the old method of assist macros causing extra normal chains, you are advocating giving less options to the player.

Ok you can plink the input thats why it felt random. After a bit of practice I could get the same thing consistently thanks. The older method just made things happen I never saw the use for making the assist call stopp your muli part attack but now we can both have what we want.
 
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