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squigly center stage assist counts as "hitting"

dragonos451

dragonos451

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Cerebella
Center stage assist, even though it doesn't apply a "hit", does prevent you from calling asssit for the rest of your combo.
Seria center stage, I guess I can understand, it applies hitstop to the opponent. But normal version? I'm a bit confused.

Is there a specific reason for it to prevent several assist calls, while one can spam robo fortune c.hk or beo taunt assist mid combo?

@Mike_Z
 
This was an intentional exception to the "whiff assist allows you to keep calling assist" rule, yes

I believe the reasoning was something along the lines of
"It actually has a use in being called multiple times (unlike taunts, or smth like L.George which just won't do anything - this was prior to Robo cHK which gets heads out), and *gets you hits* in neutral - eg if you whiff Peacock L.George and it doesn't hit, you can then land an overhead and call another assist while it is waddling on the screen since it didn't actually connect with the opponent. If you "whiff" Cstage, it still pull the opponent next to you, so if you then land a hit on them it is presumably in large part due to that - thus, no other assist call allowed"

Too lazy to search out his post regarding the matter; can't even recall whether it was a post or just IRC/something
 
Normal centre stage allows corner combos midscreenso it does change damage output. Things that cause wallbounce or knock very far away (BB st.hk, painwheel air L buer, robo fortune st.hk etc etc) have drastically different effects when center stage is called first.


I DO think however that there is precedence for some other assists that don't hit, to still change/help combos because of their inherent collision properties, though I can't think of any non hitting examples ATM, but a hitting example is BB L extend assist confirm, dash under, then hit character towards BB. BB acts like a wall here and allows certain combos that wouldnt normally be applicable.
 
If this isn't a technical limitation it doesn't really seem like a necessary exception, does it
Comparing with LK george, once that's on screen it doesn't need to hit to do its job. If Cerebella connects with a grab thanks to the opponent watching out for george, that doesn't use up the assist call per combo even though the assist made the combo possible.

Besides, center stage is hardly an overused assist. Allowing it to be called as much as you want would only serve to make it actually useful.

Edit: Not that I think it isn't useful for anything, it just really lacks the versatility to justify picking it over a more conventional assist
 
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zeknife said:
Besides, center stage is hardly an overused assist. Allowing it to be called as much as you want would only serve to make it actually useful.

Straight the F up, agreed.

Though I think the assist is far from useless obviously, currently it is certainly overshadowed by other assists and so... Since its "an exception" an exception could be made to allow it to be called multiple times in a combo. Worst that happens is something breaks and it isn't good... But that's what betas are for so... Yep.
 
dragonos451 said:
Is there a specific reason for it to prevent several assist calls, while one can spam robo fortune c.hk or beo taunt assist mid combo?
All taunt assists act as if they got hit, and lock out assists/tags/etc for 1.5 sec after they leave. Even when not in combos.
Center Stage doesn't do that, but it does need to do SOMETHING because it does immediately accomplish the thing you're calling for it to do. So, you "hit" with it. Taunts, and even Robo c.HK, don't accomplish anything when called. And locking Robo other Headrone assist types to only calling 1 head per combo without using it, removes their use.
Center Stage also allows EXTREMELY easy midstage double-snaps with everyone, as well as midstage corner combos. Just cuz people don't do 'em doesn't mean they aren't there. I don't want to allow those AND have them be extended by another assist afterward.
 
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I'm not usually the type to speak up multiple times about something like this, but I truly think I have a point to make. I know several people who have extensively tried to make use of center stage assist, and none of them have stuck with it (including myself). I think it's an assist that seems good in theory, but almost never in practice.

Mike_Z said:
All taunt assists act as if they got hit, and lock out assists/tags/etc for 1.5 sec after they leave. Even when not in combos.
Center Stage doesn't do that, but it does need to do SOMETHING because it does immediately accomplish the thing you're calling for it to do.
Simply selecting center stage (or a taunt, some of these points apply to those too) cripples you from character select, because you're stuck with an assist that only does something in very specific situations, is possibly the most useless alpha counter in the game, and also possibly the most high-risk assist to call in neutral;
The opponent can react to the Squigly assist showing up and then you're stuck with a useless assist waiting to get hit while the opponent can pressure you with his own assists or alpha counter into happy birthday super the moment you try to put them in blockstun.

The amount of matchups where picking center stage actually provides a justifiable net worth seems to be very few to me, maybe something like duo painwheel vs solo peacock? Most times I've used it or seen it used, it seems like a seldom callable gimmick waiting to backfire.

Mike_Z said:
Center Stage also allows EXTREMELY easy midstage double-snaps with everyone, as well as midstage corner combos. Just cuz people don't do 'em doesn't mean they aren't there. I don't want to allow those AND have them be extended by another assist afterward.
Is this even a concern? If they got their midstage double-snap, they would have no need for an assist extension anyway, short of the rare situation of needing just one more move to fill that last pixel of meter.
Getting to do midstage corner combos and then call another assist would certainly be good, but maybe that's the kind of good it would take for anyone to actually consider sticking with center stage after trying it.
 
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zeknife said:
I'm not usually the type to speak up multiple times about something like this, but I truly think I have a point to make. I know several people who have extensively tried to make use of center stage assist, and none of them have stuck with it (including myself). I think it's an assist that seems good in theory, but almost never in practice.


Simply selecting center stage (or a taunt, some of these points apply to those too) cripples you from character select, because you're stuck with an assist that only does something in very specific situations, is possibly the most useless alpha counter in the game, and also possibly the most high-risk assist to call in neutral;
The opponent can react to the Squigly assist showing up and then you're stuck with a useless assist waiting to get hit while the opponent can pressure you with his own assists or alpha counter into happy birthday super the moment you try to put them in blockstun.

The amount of matchups where picking center stage actually provides a justifiable net worth seems to be very few to me, maybe something like duo painwheel vs solo peacock? Most times I've used it or seen it used, it seems like a seldom callable gimmick waiting to backfire.


Is this even a concern? If they got their midstage double-snap, they would have no need for an assist extension anyway, short of the rare situation of needing just one more move to fill that last pixel of meter.
Getting to do midstage corner combos and then call another assist would certainly be good, but maybe that's the kind of good it would take for anyone to actually consider sticking with center stage after trying it.
Pretty much comes down to the type of style the player chooses to use when they play and try out other characters. Then there are custom assists if the initial 2 aren't what they want to do. Whether an assist is useless or not completely depends on what one chooses to do with them.
 
One of the primary reasons why I think center stage could use a buff like this is because:


Besides the obvious things like much of what se knife said, all of which I agree with. There's also the thing where... This is a highly original assist and has the power to really open up the game to a new style of play.

I think this is very different from asking if some cr.lk assist can be buffed or some dp/lockdown assist can be buffed for a better hitbox or more invincibility etc etc...


This assist is one of a kind and as such I feel like it should be balance to be a powerful option, not one that by and large gets you killed or just sits on the sidelines rarely getting called except in the off chance that you get a cr.lk starter or a high starter at midscreen and want to do a part of a corner combo. Or in the off chance that you get a midscreen happy birthday WITHOUT using an assist to do it.



Those are both some of the things that make the assist a bit less useful than most other assists. It's ability to use as a midscreen corner combo is limited to non assist starters, and off of throw you aren't going to generally want to go full combo/assist extension cause of proration and enemy meter gain.

Then there's the happy birthday... A good concept in theory except that lots of happy birthdays come from assists starters. So center stage can't be used.

Then there's the use it to stop people from running away from you thing... Except that the enemy can just counter call their assist easily and center stage takes forever to wind up and actually get going.



Then theres the wait for them to call their assist, then call center stage to counter and make their point and assist land on top of each other and get a happy birthday... Which is wishful thinking at its best and rarely works out in your favour.



Then there's the esoteric shit like pulling the opponent into bellas mgr range, using it to stop Beowulf runaway super, using it to stop filias runaway Gregor in midair... But these are all said things that hardly even affect a game and aren't worth using center stage for.


Yes maybe people just need to get better... But the same is also said of dp and lockdown assists and they are already dominant and will stay that way more than likely.



Anyways, those are the reasons why I feel like center stage could use a buff. In short it's a fantastic piece of tech that I really wish could be used more, but ATM just doesn't seem worth it even after all it's theory fighter uses.
 
Non-charged Sing is a pretty weak move in general. I don't think changing it to allow you to call it as much as you want is really going to improve it much since you hardly ever want to call it anyway.

But it is a very unique mechanic, it would be nice to see it become more useful, on the other hand whenever you have a move that functions very differently to everything else in the game there's always the risk that improving it would break something.
 
zeknife said:
I'm not usually the type to speak up multiple times about something like this
And we are all glad! :^P

Do not equate your own experiences with the full extent of experiences that can be had by others. Do not equate the current metagame with the eventual metagame. And do not try to insist that because an assist is not immediately useful standing around at neutral it is not ever useful. Seriously now, Nova/Spencer/Strange would like a word with you. You can put her on a trio and have a useful attacking assist as well as Center Stage, and when the level of play improves midstage doublesnaps will be a BIG deal - look how big a deal they are in MvC2 now.

Because this is obviously my job, have some practical uses that do not include midstage corner combos, doublesnaps, or randomly calling her at neutral:
This was 15 minutes of poking around.
 
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WHAT YOU CAN COMBO OFF OF THE BURST WITH BURST ALPHA COUNTER THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
 
I used Sing with fukua point. its good but you NEED to be smart with it. its not a lockdown assist but after tender embrace and then calling Sing assist allowed for immediate setups.

Filia with sing assist is decent due to her speed on her normals and in general.
Bella with titan knuckle could setup alot of things. most people do not expect an immediate attack thanks to sing.

Parasoul............well in that vid can napalm shot > detonate > assist call > Sniper shot= immediate conversion.

Eliza.......off of s.hkX2 can get some results and safe jumps if she wanted to.

not sure what fortune would get since i don't play her at all anymore.

these are basic things i did and for the most part were effective against good players as well.
 
i already knew of many of those uses, but the Titan knuckle got me shook. That was nice.


Having said that ice seen one other instance where I thought sing was a ridiculous assist. On gfarmers Fukua team. He would backdash, call sing, then do fukuas shadow move. Very hard to stop because sing would pull you towards him, and attacking him full stop was hard because of having to deal with fukuas jhk. It was also good because unlike most pokes which are either duckable or very close to the ground and jumpable, the m shadow hits ground and high up on the air as well.. So it was really good.



I've also had it give uses for painwheels dash j.mp since j.mp controls both ground an air.


But I've never seen use for the move to really put it on a team above certain other assists... But perhaps at the end of the day the problem was squigly and not necessarily sing in itself as far as my team was concerned since I never actually learned how to squiggles.
 
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