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can we make squigly a tiny bit better

akindhobo

akindhobo

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Squigly Eliza
so the consensus is that squigly isn't as good as the rest of the cast so I'd like to make some suggestions that i think would maker her a bit more fun to play and stronger over all.

--double jump cancelable air normals every one else has air dash cancelable normals so why not squigly?
-her uppercut is a legit uppercut
-Cancel any special move into sing!
-Every dive kick is a high! (or more block stun)
-Tremelo hits low!
-Squigly keeps her siera charge while tagged out even if you use special moves that consume siera charge while she's an assist
-Only 2 meters for level 3 super from level 2 sing is a feature not a bug!
-medium divekick hit-stun she had prior to release
-j.hp not having green box on the attack
 
Make Squigly OP got it.

Give Fortune more heads while you're at it. And safe on block fiber uppers. Faster head cooldowns. AIR OMNOMNOMS.

I think she's fine personally but I don't use her.
 
only half trolling to be honest
i think double jump cancelable air normals and sustained siera charge while tagged out would be cool but that's just me i guess
 
akindhobo said:
-Squigly keeps her siera charge while tagged out even if you use special moves that consume siera charge while she's an assist
-Only 2 meters for level 3 super from level 2 sing is a feature not a bug!
-j.hp not having green box on the attack
165.gif
 
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Buff Squigly's snapback where she automatically hits all 3 players plus gives you 5 meters!
 
1. I don't know if that would even be useful since Squigly has a ton of re-jump options for air combos anyway
2. Yes please
3. Unless you want Squigly to be able to Stance Cancel all her special moves, nope.
4. Nah, not necessary her standing overhead is actually good now and it was super annoying
5. Level 2 Tremolo would track and trip-guard people. Potentially too much.
6. Unless you want infinite Level 2 sing assists, no. That would be horribly broken.
7. Eh.. nah.
8. No no no no, being able to link heavies from a divekick was so stupid
9. Would make her super super braindead at full screen
 
I suppose they should give Peacock her 3 bombs and armor then.
 
I sorta like low Tremolo and a stronger uppercut, personally.

The uppercut more than the Tremolo since yeah, trip-guard seems a bit ouch. But it'd be nice if she had a few more options for getting in besides just her divekick. It feels like that's all anyone uses even on Salty Cupcakes.
 
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Hi i'd like to purchase chip damage cr.HP for 7500 P$ thanks bye


I honestly can't think of anything valid to give Squigly that would actually be fair and something she'd need.

She could use prettier colors at least.
 
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Alright isn't enough, we need Incredible.
 
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I think the legit uppercut is a legit suggestion. She is seemingly unanimously considered the worst character in the game, however she's only been out a short while. I'd wait til she has been out at least a year, see what she does in EVO, etc. Then maybe she needs buffs if she still isn't doing anything competitively.
 
She does not need a stronger DP, Squigly is in a VERY good place right now in comparison to say, the entire cast. Why do so many people in this community feel that every character needs to be able to do everything. Wah Filia the reset character can't do long combos - Mike gives you combos, wah Parasoul the poke/mid range character has low combo damage - Mike gives you better damage, wah Peacock the ZONER has weak defensive options - Mike gives her the most ridiculous get-off-me-move. At some point you need to give it a rest.
 
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Woofly said:
She does not need a stronger DP, Squigly is in a VERY good place right now in comparison to say, the entire cast. Why do so many people in this community feel that every character needs to be able to do everything. Wah Filia the reset character can't do long combos - Mike gives you combos, wah Parasoul the poke/mid range character has low combo damage - Mike gives you better damage, wah Peacock the ZONER has weak defensive options - Mike gives her the most ridiculous get-off-me-move. At some point you need to give it a rest.

Point being, what is her DP good for if its not even startup invincible? Its incredibly unsafe, has a long startup and doesn't do the most damage so you don't use it for combos.

It doesn't anti-air consistently either because you can't DP the move deep, no startup invincibility, can't do it early - invincibility will run out and it will trade, you have to do it perfectly so that you can use the ~7 invincibility frames in the middle of the move to beat the jump in. Its just impractical, and to make matters worse you don't even get to confirm it into a combo unless you buffer into SBO before you see it hit, which costs meter, or you hit with the level 2 version with your opponent close enough to the corner. Its not like Updo xx Fenrir where you have all day to cancel into Gregor and make it work.
 
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all of her moves can be cancelled.
extremely great assist variety and keepaway damage.
best throw candidate.
mixups galore.
her flames kill some projectiles...
and her dp is great already.
 
Jason said:
Point being, what is her DP good for if its not even startup invincible? Its incredibly unsafe, has a long startup and doesn't do the most damage so you don't use it for combos.

It doesn't anti-air consistently either because you can't DP the move deep, no startup invincibility, can't do it early - invincibility will run out and it will trade, you have to do it perfectly so that you can use the ~7 invincibility frames in the middle of the move to beat the jump in. Its just impractical, and to make matters worse you don't even get to confirm it into a combo unless you buffer into SBO before you see it hit, which costs meter, or you hit with the level 2 version with your opponent close enough to the corner. Its not like Updo xx Fenrir where you have all day to cancel into Gregor and make it work.

I didn't say it was a good move, did you read my post? I said she was already a good character and that the Skullgirls community seem to think that every character should have a good everything. If a character ever has a weakness they blow it up and ask for buffs. Squigly has a bad DP, Squigly is still a good *great* character if played correctly. Do you think Squigly needs a good DP? If so, why?
 
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I'm pretty sure every complaint about any of the SG characters that is unfounded generally comes down to "please make all the characters the same", which is probably also why people want Squigly to have a stronger DP/Updo clone.

Also her DP is a really good assist for Peacock imo, makes plenty of space if they get in too close for your likings.
 
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While on the topic allow me to express my thoughts on Squigly's moveset overall and why I feel she needs no buffs including to her somewhat weak dragon punch. Squigly is a stance character *gasp*, now what this as most of you will know is in order to use any of her special moves she will have to go through the initial stance startup on top of the attacks startup itself. This leads to all her moves generally having more startup than most others when used in a “normal” way such as if the opponent jumps at you and you want to anti air him/her.

As a stance character the plus side to this is that 4 of her punch stance moves share the same initial startup animation and the other 3 kick moves share a different startup animation but the same applies. Also once in this stance while holding the button you also still have the option to be mobile. You can walk up or walk back while charging your move. This means you now have a move with far shorter startup, no further directional input required and whatever you have chosen to do will now come out at the release of a button.

Now let us say for example the move you decided to use was her DP, you are in front of the opponent and you have an extremely short startup, no motion input DP stored at this point. The opponent has no idea what move you have stored. You can release the button to DP him, hold it a little longer if you think he is nervous and DP him, cancel it and go high, cancel it and go low, cancel it and throw him, cancel it and block. No other character in the game has an option like this.

Squigly isn’t a regular character, she is quirky and unique, Mike designed her to be difficult and on top of this her playstyle(s) are not so obvious. They aren’t as direct as others such as Filia, Painwheel and Peacock. Use it, while her DP in and of itself is weak who cares? Using the rest of her moveset it becomes far more powerful. Everytime you enter a stance you have ALREADY mixed up your opponent, troll them, dance around them and use her ridiculous tools to your advantage. GGWP.

Obligatory lel.
 
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Woofly said:
As a stance character the plus side to this is that 4 of her punch stance moves share the same initial startup animation and the other 3 kick moves share a different startup animation but the same applies. Also once in this stance while holding the button you also still have the option to be mobile. You can walk up or walk back while charging your move. This means you now have a move with far shorter startup, no further directional input required and whatever you have chosen to do will now come out at the release of a button.

That sounds great in theory until you realize that standing around in a stance for very long at that range is basically an invitation for your opponent to take some free damage while you can't block.

Double will use Car or Luger
Peacock will shot stuff at you
Filia can use drill or gregor
Val can use dead cross or EKG
PW can throw nails
Fortune will confirm off of her head
Parasoul will hit you with a tear shot, or even a level 3 into a full combo
Squigly will Sing xx SBO

And no, you're not going to be able to release the stance fast enough to block in most of those scenarios, except maybe Dead Cross or Nails.

About the only character that actually has to respect Squigly posturing with Dragon Stance at mid-range is Cerebella. Even against her, you're perilously close to Kara-360 range.

Despite my initial impressions about the character, Squigly turned out to be surprisingly solid and she's my strongest character by far but you could remove Draugen Punch tomorrow and I wouldn't miss it one bit. Either make it useful or get rid of it entirely. Seeing as she's currently 'good but not top tier', IMO, I'd favor making it useful (Plus its just a cool animation so why waste it?).

Even if Draugen Punch gets legit invincibility frames it still doesn't knockdown on hit unless its charged and starts up in 17 frames, making it tied for the slowest reversal in the game (excluding Fortune taking her head off). I don't think having a reversal option that's slow and hard to confirm into damage would break her.

Everytime you enter a stance you have ALREADY mixed up your opponent, troll them, dance around them and use her ridiculous tools to your advantage. GGWP.

Yeah because having a choice between 4 different moves that all hit mid and are all unsafe on block (or don't even hit in the case of sing) is a really great mixup. You're also free to projectiles and hitstop supers while you're standing there not able to block. 'top lel' as they say.
 
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Jason said:
That sounds great in theory until you realize that standing around in a stance for very long at that range is basically an invitation for your opponent to take some free damage while you can't block.

You gain access to options when you use your stance, this isn't rocket science and I don't understand how you don't see that. If the opponent has counters to the stance itself and the stance follow up moves it does not mean the move sucks, it means it has counters.

Jason said:
but you could remove Draugen Punch tomorrow and I wouldn't miss it one bit.

I would.

Jason said:
Either make it useful or get rid of it entirely.
But it has uses, just because they are not obvious to you that does not mean it isn't useful.

Jason said:
I don't think having a reversal option that's slow and hard to confirm into damage would break her.
Mike specifically wanted her to have a weak reversal game in order for her to be a more difficult character (paraphrasing), balance does not mean everyone is good at everything *gasp*.

Jason said:
Double will use Car or Luger
Peacock will shot stuff at you
Filia can use drill or gregor
Val can use dead cross or EKG
PW can throw nails
Fortune will confirm off of her head
Parasoul will hit you with a tear shot, or even a level 3 into a full combo
Squigly will Sing xx SBO
I don't recall saying entering Squiglys stance is unbeatable. What you just did was list ways for characters to beat another option and what? What does that mean to my argument of Squigly's stance being good? Does a move or tactic need to be unbeatable for it to be good? I honestly don't understand, I gave a few examples of how her stances are good and can be used and you respond with "no but this could happen". I really am mindfucked. I can list ways to beat Filia DP assist that does not mean Filia DP assist is bad.

If you have the PC version I would be more than happy to play you and give examples of how Squigly stances can be applied.

Also......

Jason said:
Seeing as she's currently 'good but not top tier', IMO, I'd favor making it useful (Plus its just a cool animation so why waste it?)

Seriously? Medal of Stupid right there. Give a good character stronger tools, hey what is the worst that could happen right?
 
Squigs has barely been a real character, it's way too soon to be asking for anything really. Also Guitalex...
 
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Woofly said:
I don't recall saying entering Squiglys stance is unbeatable. What you just did was list ways for characters to beat another option and what? What does that mean to my argument of Squigly's stance being good? Does a move or tactic need to be unbeatable for it to be good? I honestly don't understand, I gave a few examples of how her stances are good and can be used and you respond with "no but this could happen".

You didn't give especially good ones though. Your 'stance mix-up' argument made no sense when, as pointed out, all of them hit mid. Which also kinda cheapens the 'you can hold the stance to confuse them' argument when, again, the answer to almost all of the moves is the same. You're not going to really confuse them all that much by holding a clutch bad DP. You didn't really even respond to the critique of your mix-up post either. :P

Basically your argument seemed to be 'you can use it as a tech option when they get nervous" but they're not going to get nervous because the move doesn't warrant it, even charged. I don't think it should be an amazing DP baseline and just throw it out like Updo - but I do think the charged one should be worth more than it is. It feels like a novelty move at best even at Seria.

I like Squigly and I do think most of the buffs suggested were too much though. The only ones I like are DP and Tremolo - but Tremolo is an awful idea for balance, it's just a very satisfying idea, so DP is the only one I particularly liked as an actual buff. Maybe some day.
 
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Woofly said:
You gain access to options when you use your stance, this isn't rocket science and I don't understand how you don't see that. If the opponent has counters to the stance itself and the stance follow up moves it does not mean the move sucks, it means it has counters.

What I'm saying is that standing there with draugen punch primed is totally pointless because if they know the matchup they'll just hit at range or attack you with a move that's too fast to react to for free damage.

I don't see how this is hard to understand.

Draugen Punch is useless outside of a few very niche combos and setups for which she has other options that are just as good, like Liver Mortis.
 
SunnyRei said:
You didn't give especially good ones though. Your 'stance mix-up' argument made no sense when, as pointed out, all of them hit mid. Which also kinda cheapens the 'you can hold the stance to confuse them' argument when, again, the answer to almost all of the moves is the same. You're not going to really confuse them all that much by holding a clutch bad DP. You didn't really even respond to the critique of your mix-up post either. :P
I don't play Squigly so I may be oversimplifying things, but you can stancel into high/low/throw if you think they're going to try and block. If they're not scared of you and they try to throw out a poke, liver mortis will stuff most of their options (this might be wrong! I don't play the character)
 
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SunnyRei said:
You didn't give especially good ones though. Your 'stance mix-up' argument made no sense when, as pointed out, all of them hit mid.

I will address that as I meant to in the previous post, I didn't mean a literal mixup btw as in high/low. I meant that in the terms of mindgames your opponent starts guessing about what you will do, not if you will go high or low.

Also she has the ability to cancel it and block, now by the logic of "you can't cancel it and block in time because *reasons*" she very much can release the button to attack. You can let off Mortis or Dragon Punch if you chose one of those attacks and it will beat most attacks. Because this is an option your opponent can choose to not attack, you can cancel it and attempt throws, you can cancel it and attempt whatever you choose to do so because Squigly is a stance character. This is one of the things they are good at.
 
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Jason said:
Double will use Car or Luger
Peacock will shot stuff at you
Filia can use drill or gregor
Val can use dead cross or EKG
PW can throw nails
Fortune will confirm off of her head
Parasoul will hit you with a tear shot, or even a level 3 into a full combo
Squigly will Sing xx SBO
I just went in training mode for 30 seconds. It's incredibly easy for Squigly to DP through double's car super on reaction from a held lv2 stance by letting go of the button. I haven't tested the other options yet, but I suggest that you do so if you want to get better at your character.

Edit: That was way too bitchy of me, especially as it sounds like you actually do know your character pretty well. Sorry! The point still remains, though; not all of those options are guaranteed to hit against a Squigly who's holding her punch stance.
 
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Jason said:
What I'm saying is that standing there with draugen punch primed is totally pointless because if they know the matchup they'll just hit at range or attack you with a move that's too fast to react to for free damage.

I don't see how this is hard to understand.

Draugen Punch is useless outside of a few very niche combos and setups for which she has other options that are just as good, like Liver Mortis.

I was not specifically talking about her DP though as I made clear in the very first line of my post, it was in terms of all her options from the same stance INCLUDING DP. They cannot KNOW you have dragon punch and they cannot KNOW you will even attempt to use it. You could very well be using one of the other punch stance attacks that WILL beat their option. It is all mindgames.
 
Again I feel this discussion is going nowhere, if you are up for some games at some point I would be more than happy to show you how useful it can be when applied in a match setting rather than the counter-counter theorycrafting going on in here.
 
Woofly said:
I was not specifically talking about her DP though as I made clear in the very first line of my post, it was in terms of all her options from the same stance INCLUDING DP. They cannot KNOW you have dragon punch and they cannot KNOW you will even attempt to use it. You could very well be using one of the other punch stance attacks that WILL beat their option. It is all mindgames.

It doesn't matter which move you primed because they can all be blocked mid and are unsafe on block and are all susceptible to getting shot in the face at a distance except level 2 sing, which also requires meter (and even that doesn't always work).
 
Mr Peck said:
I don't play Squigly so I may be oversimplifying things, but you can stancel into high/low/throw if you think they're going to try and block. If they're not scared of you and they try to throw out a poke, liver mortis will stuff most of their options (this might be wrong! I don't play the character)

Holding the stance is not the mixup. Its never a mixup.

Stance canceling lets her create mixups with her other moves, yes, of course but that's not what he was talking about.
 
Jason said:
It doesn't matter which move you primed because they can all be blocked mid and are unsafe on block and are all susceptible to getting shot in the face at a distance except level 2 sing, which also requires meter (and even that doesn't always work).

DUDE WTF. You can't BOTH say that if Squigly attacks the opponent can block mid AND say that if she cancels it they can attack then NOT call that an option. WTF ARE YOU MEWTWO? ARE YOU PSYCHIC? CAN I HAVE YOUR POWERS PLEASE? WHY ARE YOU NOT BEATING DUCKATOR? WHERE IS YOUR KING OF SKULLGIRLS BANNER?
 
Moved to the more appropriate gameplay general section since requesting buffs/nerfs for X character isn't really a appropriate for the beta/SG feature request area.
 
Mr Peck said:
I just went in training mode for 30 seconds. It's incredibly easy for Squigly to DP through double's car super on reaction from a held lv2 stance by letting go of the button. I haven't tested the other options yet, but I suggest that you do so if you want to get better at your character.
He also suggested that Filia do Gregor fullscreen, which is almost as unreasonable as Baiko's claim that Squigly has the best throw in the game. Gregor has 5f invuln and after that it loses to everything.
 
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