Need some input regarding assists

[pegglefrank]

I currently run BB/Beo/Bella, which, for me, is a fairly comfortable team. I know BB has the best assists out of them all (perhaps out of anyone in the entire game?), but I prefer to run him on point because I'm more comfortable with him. I usually tag him out at around mid-health to start making use of his assist, without putting him at a dangerous amount of health.

However, I don't know what assists to use. I've looked some things up and I've made a few choices so far, but I could use some extra input in this regard.

Right now, I have:

Big Band - LP Beat Extend
Beowulf - LP Hurting Hurl
Cerebella - Excellebella

This seems to work pretty okay in most matches, but sometimes it feels like I'd be better off with other assists.

I've considered and used MK A-train for BB, and that seemed to work better in combos, but I ended up using Excellebella instead and replacing MK A-train with LP beat extend. The reason for that was because Excellebella gives a better angle on the final hit than MK A-train, which just sends the opponent off on a horizontal trajectory and is less reliable with big moves like Beo's chairless c.HP. Excellebella also does less damage than MK A-train, except at max scaling, though I believe it also gives slightly more meter.

I spent a lot of time thinking about Beo's assist. I tried wulf shoot, but that was far too predictable considering the startup and travel time. It also doesn't have armor or invulnerability frames, which makes it mostly useless. I originally thought it would be a good thing to try alongside MK A-train, but it really didn't work. So, I moved on to the chair toss. I thought about all versions of it, though I really only liked the HP and LP versions. I wanted a decent-ranged low (BB only has a few lows and they're all very short-ranged. His sweep is fantastic, but it's difficult to convert off of) that I could combo from, so I went with LP, but at the same time it feels like HP would be nice for pressure on incoming. LP chair toss really doesn't do that very well, and Excellebella doesn't do anything if my opponent is blocking -- which they should be, if they see a Cerebella assist call.

Excellebella is definitely the weak point here, in my opinion, but I can't think of anything to replace it. Cerecopter, while good for lockdowns, is too short for me to convert off of using big moves, and at mid-screen it's almost impossible to get a full combo off of. Excellebella doesn't have that issue and is completely unblockable if my opponent is jumping, which they're much more likely to do while I have Beo on point, but by the time Cerebella gets on-screen and begins to start up the move it's probably too late. It really only works against clumsy opponents, from what I've seen. So, I've been trying to think of something to replace it with. Cerecopter would be nice, but it has the aforementioned issues that make it not very useful outside of the corner. MGR might be neat to try with MK A-Train, but that can be broken if Cerebella gets hit, which, I suspect, would make it just as useless as wulf shoot with MK A-Train. Titan knuckle might be okay for long-ranged support (especially if I'm trying to move forwards; the long range on TK will more than make up for how far Cerebella is behind me), but it hits mid, which makes it pretty easy to ignore because my opponent can just block high or low depending on what I'm doing and not worry about having to block in any specific direction for TK. Lock n' Load is also a fair option, alongside TK, though it doesn't have quite the same range and has travel time. However, it does have armor, which might make it better for pressure.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I've considered a lot of things, but I still don't really know what's best. I want to be able to convert off my assists, as well as use them for pressuring my opponent. I've narrowed down Beo's assists to LP or HP hurting hurl, and, as for Cerebella, I haven't narrowed it down at all. She has so many options, but none of them are perfect, and I don't know which would be most useful.

 

[Kyugetsuki]

Consider taking another look at Cerecopter. I'm not quite sure what you mean by its too short to convert off of. It sounds like you jump back when you call Cerecopter causig you to not be in range to convert. That would be the real problem.

 

[pegglefrank]

Consider taking another look at Cerecopter. I'm not quite sure what you mean by its too short to convert off of. It sounds like you jump back when you call Cerecopter causig you to not be in range to convert. That would be the real problem.

That's probably it. I tried it a couple of times and it always sent my opponent flying before I could close in; I have a tendency to move backward when calling assists.

I'll give it another try, and I'll be more offensive this time. If it lands, I should be close enough to convert off of with s.lp or something. If not, I can go A-train.

 

[Ninja]

I currently run BB/Beo/Bella, which, for me, is a fairly comfortable team. I know BB has the best assists out of them all (perhaps out of anyone in the entire game?)

Not true, all assists have a use, heck you don't have to use a special move for an assist. If used correctly a low multi hitting normal like say, Filia's cr.mk can be a great mixup/ pressure tool.

Excellebella is definitely the weak point here, in my opinion,

Excellebella isn't weak, you just have to use it at the right time in your combos. Due to it being a hit grab it will scale your combo if you use it too early, that's why it should be used last in a combo.

Old ass example:

But in this case I strongly feel you should swap out Excellebella and put in Lock and Load. You shouldn't use it for Band, but more for Beo. Beowulf is all about setplays and having a staggered armored assist backing him up will cover up the gaps in his pressure and will give him chances to set up throws and heavy hitting combos with the assist.

 

[Meow-Professor]

Personally, I feel like your team order really limits how you can capitilize off of your assists. I assume you don't want team advice, but I'd really recommend making your team order Beowulf, Cerebella, Big Band. Both Cerebella and Big Band have assists Beowulf can really benefit from to help his okizeme and neutral, so it's something I would really consider.

What I'd recommend for your team order:

I've considered and used MK A-train for BB, and that seemed to work better in combos, but I ended up using Excellebella instead and replacing MK A-train with LP beat extend. The reason for that was because Excellebella gives a better angle on the final hit than MK A-train, which just sends the opponent off on a horizontal trajectory and is less reliable with big moves like Beo's chairless c.HP. Excellebella also does less damage than MK A-train, except at max scaling, though I believe it also gives slightly more meter.

MK A-Train can lead to some resets for Beowulf as well, so I'd say overall it is more useful. Brass Knuckles is like Lock N' Load, with a few better properties; while it does more damage and has a much larger hitbox, it can however be harder to convert off of, and it can make Beowulf's okizeme even better, as I mentioned, and it can also help his neutral. Cerebella can also benefit off of it, as her approach isn't the best.
While Beat Extend is a great assist too, I'd say Brass Knuckles would be your best assist choice for Big Band.

I spent a lot of time thinking about Beo's assist. I tried wulf shoot, but that was far too predictable considering the startup and travel time. It also doesn't have armor or invulnerability frames, which makes it mostly useless. I originally thought it would be a good thing to try alongside MK A-train, but it really didn't work. So, I moved on to the chair toss. I thought about all versions of it, though I really only liked the HP and LP versions. I wanted a decent-ranged low (BB only has a few lows and they're all very short-ranged. His sweep is fantastic, but it's difficult to convert off of) that I could combo from, so I went with LP, but at the same time it feels like HP would be nice for pressure on incoming. LP chair toss really doesn't do that very well, and Excellebella doesn't do anything if my opponent is blocking -- which they should be, if they see a Cerebella assist call.

If you go for Brass Knuckles, which I recommend, definitely use HP Hurting Hurl for Beowulf's assist. This way, you still have a DP assist to help you with enemies approaching from the air, along with a lot of other uses.

Excellebella is definitely the weak point here, in my opinion, but I can't think of anything to replace it. Cerecopter, while good for lockdowns, is too short for me to convert off of using big moves, and at mid-screen it's almost impossible to get a full combo off of. Excellebella doesn't have that issue and is completely unblockable if my opponent is jumping, which they're much more likely to do while I have Beo on point, but by the time Cerebella gets on-screen and begins to start up the move it's probably too late. It really only works against clumsy opponents, from what I've seen. So, I've been trying to think of something to replace it with. Cerecopter would be nice, but it has the aforementioned issues that make it not very useful outside of the corner. MGR might be neat to try with MK A-Train, but that can be broken if Cerebella gets hit, which, I suspect, would make it just as useless as wulf shoot with MK A-Train. Titan knuckle might be okay for long-ranged support (especially if I'm trying to move forwards; the long range on TK will more than make up for how far Cerebella is behind me), but it hits mid, which makes it pretty easy to ignore because my opponent can just block high or low depending on what I'm doing and not worry about having to block in any specific direction for TK. Lock n' Load is also a fair option, alongside TK, though it doesn't have quite the same range and has travel time. However, it does have armor, which might make it better for pressure.

Cerecopter is a great assist. It puts up a large hazard in neutral and it helps keep your pressure tight. It isn't too hard to combo off of, you just need to attack right when the assist ends. I'd definitely recommend using it.
Overall, I recommend your assists should be Brass Knuckles for Big Band, HP Hurting Hurl for Beowulf, and Cerecopter for Cerebella.

Lock N' Load is also an option for Cerebella. If you decide to use it, your team will miss a lockdown assist, but you can use MK A-Train if you want now. Lock N' Load is useful in the same way Brass Knuckles is for Beowulf, to help his okizeme and neutral game. It's great in combos. It doesn't result in the knockdown that Brass Knuckles does, so it is easier to convert off of midscreen, as well. I'd say it is better for your team, but I find having the lockdown assist more important.

 

[pegglefrank]

Not true, all assists have a use, heck you don't have to use a special move for an assist. If used correctly a low multi hitting normal like say, Filia's cr.mk can be a great mixup/ pressure tool.

They all have a use, but LP beat extend is one of the more versatile ones. I should have worded that better; my bad.

Excellebella isn't weak, you just have to use it at the right time in your combos. Due to it being a hit grab it will scale your combo if you use it too early, that's why it should be used last in a combo.

I've been using it in my combos, but it feels weak in neutral. If I'm moving forward, my opponent will be too far away to be caught by excellebella. If I stand still and keep Cerebella in range, they won't jump, and if they were already jumping, they'll land before they have a chance of being caught by excellebella.

I guess what I'm looking for are assists that are better in neutral. If I can use them in combos, that's great, but I need something to throw out during neutral to try and get a shot at a conversion and a full combo. Beo is the one that's probably going to benefit the most from these types of assists.

But in this case I strongly feel you should swap out Excellebella and put in Lock and Load. You shouldn't use it for Band, but more for Beo. Beowulf is all about setplays and having a staggered armored assist backing him up will cover up the gaps in his pressure and will give him chances to set up throws and heavy hitting combos with the assist.

I'll try mixing up my team order a little, as Meow Professor suggested, so that I can use lock n' load with Beo right off the bat.

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Personally, I feel like your team order really limits how you can capitilize off of your assists. I assume you don't want team advice, but I'd really recommend making your team order Beowulf, Cerebella, Big Band. Both Cerebella and Big Band have assists Beowulf can really benefit from to help his okizeme and neutral, so it's something I would really consider.

I've been told that before. It's something I definitely want to do, but my Beo isn't nearly as solid as my BB, and it makes me feel a bit uneasy playing him on point.

I'll try and spend some more time practicing his combos and setups to prepare for moving him to point, but I don't plan on switching up the order immediately.

MK A-Train can lead to some resets for Beowulf as well, so I'd say overall it is more useful. Brass Knuckles is like Lock N' Load, with a few better properties; while it does more damage and has a much larger hitbox, it can however be harder to convert off of, and it can make Beowulf's okizeme even better, as I mentioned, and it can also help his neutral. Cerebella can also benefit off of it, as her approach isn't the best.
While Beat Extend is a great assist too, I'd say Brass Knuckles would be your best assist choice for Big Band.

You have a point. I think I'd prefer Brass over Lock n' Load for the okizeme, as you mentioned. I've had issues converting off Lock n' Load before, but I suspect that might just be because I'm not positioning myself correctly. I tend to move backwards after calling an assist. I'll need to break that habit.

If you go for Brass Knuckles, which I recommend, definitely use HP Hurting Hurl for Beowulf's assist. This way, you still have a DP assist to help you with enemies approaching from the air, along with a lot of other uses.

Yeah, the anti-air is one of the main reasons I was considering it. I only went with LP because it's a low, but it can be jumped over (and doesn't help pressure on incoming as much as HP), so I'll switch over to HP. That's something I was on the fence about, but you've convinced me.

Cerecopter is a great assist. It puts up a large hazard in neutral and it helps keep your pressure tight. It isn't too hard to combo off of, you just need to attack right when the assist ends. I'd definitely recommend using it.
Overall, I recommend your assists should be Brass Knuckles for Big Band, HP Hurting Hurl for Beowulf, and Cerecopter for Cerebella.

That might be it. When I tried using Cerecopter, I couldn't convert off of it, but I think it was because I wasn't attacking at the right time. That, combined with my habit of moving backwards after calling an assist, would explain why I have so much trouble converting off of it.

It should also help on incoming, just like HP Hurl. Excellebella and LP hurl are both sub-par on incoming, which makes it feel like they hurt my momentum.

Lock N' Load is also an option for Cerebella. If you decide to use it, your team will miss a lockdown assist, but you can use MK A-Train if you want now. Lock N' Load is useful in the same way Brass Knuckles is for Beowulf, to help his okizeme and neutral game. It's great in combos. It doesn't result in the knockdown that Brass Knuckles does, so it is easier to convert off of midscreen, as well. I'd say it is better for your team, but I find having the lockdown assist more important.

I thought HP lock n' load caused knockdown. I'll have to give it another shot.

I'll try Cerecopter and Lock n' Load. I have a feeling Cerecopter will come out on top for the lockdown potential; while Lock n' Load seems to be better in combos than Brass, I think I could substitute Cerecopter just fine in most situations.


This is a lot to digest. I'll try everything out that you guys mentioned, and I'll definitely start working on my Beo a bit more so that I can play him more comfortably on point. Thanks.

 

[Pickles]

i think band/beo/bella is a pretty versatile team that can do fine in just about any order of those characters. Like people have said I would probably change bella assist to copter or LnL but that team order is definitely fine if you like the team in that order. Beo and band can both do good mixups with a lockdown assist and are both helped in neutral by LnL so either would probably work, LnL seems to be what most people who play bella/band run however, and like meow-professor said LnL is good for Beo as well.

Like I said for people who run bella and BB duo the order is usually bella/band, but Drewski (link is to some match footage of him at Combo Breaker) is not only a really solid player of that duo but also runs BB point, maybe you can learn something watching him.

WRT beowulf assist, IIRC L chair hits low so you could maybe do some high/lows with that but H chair is probably the better assist overall so I'd consider switching to that assist for sure.

For the BB assist, beat extend is definitely the better assist for bella; i THINK that people like brass for beo (but I dont play beo so I dunno) but he can definitely make good use of beat extend too. I would use BE assist but if you like brass that would probably work fine as well. If you do use brass however I would run cerecopter because brass/LnL is pretty redundant.