• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Project Annie...In Motion!

Ruin said:
something tells me that skullgirls isn't exactly a series concerned with being the height of realism
there's a few subtle exaggerations here and there that give me that impression
I think we could differentiate ourselves from the cliche kind of, "anime cool," that's been done to death, though, and all it would take is a little realism.

Denizen said:
90% of all pro wrestling moves would never work in an actual fight.
That's a damn lie!
 
Night Phyre said:
I don't like reverse grip on the grounds that it's an extremely poor decision in an actual sword fight. There is literally no advantage to holding your blade in reverse grip other than the fact that it's unexpected.
the reverse grip is MEANT to be a disadvantage. harder to hit with and all you do is small blunt damage. plus its easier to deflect, and the weight isn't distributed very well when swinging the blunt side first. and the fact that annie is meant to be a veteran, it makes sense that at some point she'd probably want a challenge.
 
And the people have spoken. Looks like I'll re-animate her id
Night Phyre said:
I don't like reverse grip on the grounds that it's an extremely poor decision in an actual sword fight. There is literally no advantage to holding your blade in reverse grip other than the fact that it's unexpected.

I agree with this, even though it looks bad ass. I just wanted to see how people felt about giving her a more "battle ready" stance in general.

I like the references you posted. One thing I'm definitely going to do is have her bend at the knees more. Whatever I end up doing with her sword, I'm going to try to come up with something that will transition better into a walk, run, and some neutral normal moves.

I'll post a quick sketch before I do any animating this time. That way I won't end up animating her idle 10 times over...
 
Skullmageddon said:
I like the references you posted. One thing I'm definitely going to do is have her bend at the knees more. Whatever I end up doing with her sword, I'm going to try to come up with something that will transition better into a walk, run, and some neutral normal moves.

Here's a more fighting-game-y version of what I'm talking about. High aggression, high confidence.

Haohmaru-sprite3.gif


The gif makes the sword look like it's behind his head, but it's supposed to be in front.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Error Macro and jam1220
Night Phyre said:
NOT AT ALL!
When's the last time you've seen someone use a Powerbomb in the UFC?

If this helps @Skullmageddon, here's part of Annie's concept art that shows what her forward run would look like.
If Alex Ahad sticks with this then it looks like Annie using a reverse grip may be canon.
Annie's Run.jpg
 
she might just switch grips as the situation calls for
she's been around a while, so I imagine that Annie isn't too rigid in her fighting style
you gotta be able to flex and flow
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kai
Denizen said:
When's the last time you've seen someone use a Powerbomb in the UFC?
I thought that was Brock Lesnar's signature move? He dominated due to his pro wrasslin' experience!

Ruin said:
she might just switch grips as the situation calls for
she's been around a while, so I imagine that Annie isn't too rigid in her fighting style
you gotta be able to flex and flow
I can get with this a lot more than a permanent reverse stance. Switching sword grip mid-fight is also a bad call, but still cool from a design perspective.
 
Denizen said:
Here's part of Annie's concept art that shows what her forward run would look like. If Alex Ahad sticks with this then it looks like Annie using a reverse grip may be canon.
View attachment 1506

When's the last time you've seen someone use a Powerbomb in the UFC?

Even if her idle, run, and dp use a reverse grip most of her normals would probably use a more standard grip. This means she would have to quickly switch grip between moves which, although realistically impractical, could be interesting...yet also somewhat difficult to plan for.

Perhaps this would be easier to determine if we analyzed her character more. How would Annie use her sword? How does she hold it? What kind of person is she in general?

Also the only reason I gave a reverse grip as an example for an alternative stance was cuz I didn't want to redraw her sword :P
 
Night Phyre said:
I thought that was Brock Lesnar's signature move? He dominated due to his pro wrasslin' experience!
OK now I know you're being sarcastic.
Skullmageddon said:
Even if her idle, run, and dp use a reverse grip most of her normals would probably use a more standard grip. This means she would have to quickly switch grip between moves which, although realistically impractical, could be interesting...yet also somewhat difficult to plan for.
Watch some footage of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, the protagonist fights the same way you're describing.

Wait a second.
Girl of the Stars
Starkiller
Coincidence!?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TrulyAmiracle, Shockdingo, Lavama and 3 others
Maybe holding it in a reverse grip regularly will fool the enemy when she switches to use it normally?
 
i'll say that again: check Sol badguy and Ragna's stances.

it'll give you an excellent base about how her moves should work
 
DukeMagus said:
i'll say that again: check Sol badguy and Ragna's stances.

it'll give you an excellent base about how her moves should work
but what if she's also being filmed for her show? who's to say she wouldn't put on a more child friendly act for the camera in her stances?
 
DukeMagus said:
i'll say that again: check Sol badguy and Ragna's stances.

it'll give you an excellent base about how her moves should work
This. Ragna actually has one or two moves where he briefly goes into a normal grip before reverting.

Also, while reverse grip lacks range, it's an extension of the fist, which can lend itself to a rushdown playstyle. Also, I find reverse grip defense more intuitive to me, since it's like forearm blocking in martial arts... But since this is Annie, now that I think about it, why can't she be like Gen, except with forward and reverse grips? Different normals, specials, and stance-specific supers could be a thing. There could also be moves that flawlessly transition from one stance to the other, as opposed to switching stance outside of combos all the time.
 
Hold on, when blocking, she can have the arm pressed against the ;EDIT: Flat part of her sword; sword while having a reverse grip and that can take most the damage. ;EDIT: As well as keep her attacker out.;

Logic.
 
Last edited:
Lavama said:
Hold on, when blocking, she can have the arm pressed against the sword while having a reverse grip and that can take most the damage.

Logic.
But the way her sword is designed, her arm would be pressed against the flat end, and the width of the sword would ensure that the attacker doesn't get close.
 
RetroStation said:
But the way her sword is designed, her arm would be pressed against the flat end, and the width of the sword would ensure that the attacker doesn't get close.
That's what I meant, I just didn't word it right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RetroStation
Also, taking another look at her sword, the hilt isn't centered like most other swords. Originally, the flat part I referred to was the back end of the sword (the one lacking an edge. Looking at the design now, reverse grip would be perfect defensively because she can just turn the sword and her arm can be flush against the broad flat part (as opposed to the narrow flat part I originally though about), granting her an unorthodox shield of sorts.

Yay, brainstorming!
 
If I go with a reverse grip (which I am still undecided on) it won't be her standard grip, meaning that while she may hold the sword in reverse during her idle animation (as well as during certain moves and animations) she will most often fight with a standard grip.

This being said, thanks to everyone's input I now have some ideas regarding a stance and some normals that might work. I'll illustrate it at some point and post the details when done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RetroStation
At the very least (as a suggestion), I'd like to see her reverse grip used in her defense (blocking/pushblock), but whatever you decide to go with will most likely be kickass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skullmageddon
Ok peeps, I gots me another quick sketch to share with y'all. I'll share my thoughts on both stances individually.

AnnieAltIdleCompare.jpg

Left:
-reverse grip only in idle, run, dp, and perhaps some other moves
-most (if not all) punch normals would be standard grip (her s.lp could be a quick punch with her first)
-sets up nicely for walk, run, and block animations

Right;
-like my last idle animation, but everything is reversed and her stance is different
-use both Carl Sagan in her normals as well as her sword
-might be difficult to come up with good looking normal attacks if her sword is in the arm that's away from her opponent (she would have to turn her back to the camera in order to perform certain moves)

I have other thoughts as well, but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions before I say too much. Neither of these are final so feel perfectly free to suggest something completely different.

Also @Night Phyre I'd like to hear your opinion on this one in particular. Neither of these stances are formal or even practical for that matter, but I have my reasons for that. I messed around with putting her in more realistic stances, but it just doesn't quite feel right to me. Part of it is her presumed personality and characteristics, another part of it has to do with small elements of her design (like the type of sword she uses, etc). You seem to have a well thought out and formulated opinion with regards to her stance (it also happens to be the opinion that seems to differ from everyone else :P), so what do ya think?

p.s. don't worry about the line quality when commenting, I'll clean dat shit up later c:
 
  • Like
Reactions: TrulyAmiracle, Error Macro, jam1220 and 2 others
Skullmageddon said:
Beautiful Annie Art

IMO, the one on the right looks a lot more natural, I don't see any point in giving her a reverse grip. With respect to the whole 'she'll have to be facing away from the camera for some things,' I think you'd just have to redraw to make her face the other way. Of course whether you want to do that or not is up to you.
 
Crayolan said:
IMO, the one on the right looks a lot more natural, I don't see any point in giving her a reverse grip. With respect to the whole 'she'll have to be facing away from the camera for some things,' I think you'd just have to redraw to make her face the other way. Of course whether you want to do that or not is up to you.

I prefer the one on the right as well. But with regards to how she would be "facing" the camera I mean this:

Consider Parasoul for a moment. She holds Krieg in the hand that is always facing the opponent. All of her punch normals use Krieg and since she practices fencing she has a rather formal approach to how she uses him. Now imagine if she was holding him in her other hand. What then? Does she do a 180 with every attack just so she can be facing her opponent to use Krieg? Does Krieg just suddenly appear in her other hand? Either way, she can't fight with him if he's on the wrong side of her body. Same goes for Annie.
 
See: Sagat and his Amazing Changing Body Deformities

See Also: pretty much every other 2d fighting game character ever

just focus on what looks good from one side
it's anime fighting game not everything has to make sense
 
The right one is more natural; the reverse grip stance seems forced because her footwork is identical to the natural stance, which I don't think should be the case.

Think of reverse grip as an extension of the fist, so if anything, the sword should be positioned behind her (think Ragna, except actually holding the sword), and the hand should be switched to be in line with the back leg. More weight should be placed on her back leg in that case because it's a defensive posture. LP would be a jab, MP would be an elbow w/ the free hand, and HP would have her step forward and swipe, with a second press doing a backswipe, returning her to neutral.

If you have her with offensive/neutral/not-current foot placement, then she'd still have the sword behind her (think Sol), and her P normals would be similar to his (with obvious differences derived from personality/personal fighting style)

I have a bit of experience in reverse grip because of an action choreo group I'm part of (that I'm kinda inactive in atm), and reverse grip was something that was taught that I took to more than natural stance. I feel awkward using weapons in a fight, staged or otherwise, so holding the saber in a way that felt more... organic (if that makes any sense) was the way to go for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skullmageddon
Skullmageddon said:
I prefer the one on the right as well. But with regards to how she would be "facing" the camera I mean this:
I really recommend looking at Valentine's moves. Not only does she hold her weapon away from her opponent, she holds it behind her back in a reverse grip and it still looks fine in game. I agree wholeheartedly with @RetroStation here, it doesn't matter if it's realistic or not, Annie doesn't have to be pointing her sword towards the opponent.

I think the perfect idle for Annie would be a variant of Starkiller's stance from Soul Calibur IV, the only difference would be that Annie would hold Sagan in her free hand, she'll need him ready to fire lasers and stuff.
Actually this video is a perfect example for what I think Annie should look like in battle.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DukeMagus and Error Macro
Skullmageddon said:
Also @Night Phyre I'd like to hear your opinion on this one in particular.
I'm flattered :)

There are two main things that I think would improve either of the stances (the second of which I prefer), are as follows:
  • Bent knees. I know we're not going for super realism, but bending the knees also give a sense of power and coiled-strength.
  • Sword facing. Blade edge always faces opponent. Again, good habit, but also coneys readiness and focus.
Standby for next post (tomorrow), I'll have something extra for you.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Skullmageddon and Error Macro
Reverse grip is to swordsmanship what holding a pistol sideways is to marksmanship.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DDB and Kai
Well, considering Annie is based on sol, and many of her attacks resemble sol's, it would make sense that she'd hold the blade reverse edge for her uppercut and projectile attack Alex drew up.

also, the only blazblue character in Annie's inspirations is platinum, so I think more focus should go towards sol over ragna.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RetroStation
Sanoblaze said:
Well, considering Annie is based on sol, and many of her attacks resemble sol's, it would make sense that she'd hold the blade reverse edge for her uppercut and projectile attack Alex drew up.

also, the only blazblue character in Annie's inspirations is platinum, so I think more focus should go towards sol over ragna.
I wouldn't be surprised if Annie's launcher was Sol's Dust.
 
Ruin said:
what about her most important inspiration
Guts
more Guts would be a great improvement
I thought sword over the shoulder was a good way to go for this; it doesn't suggest that she's constantly considering her opponent's actions and instead says "it doesn't matter what you throw at me, I'll still win", just like Guts (and Sol). This kind of an insult to her opponent also matches up perfectly with the implied idea that she has a personality very different to that of the idol her fans may believe her to be.
 
also having the sword rest on your shoulder is a way you can conserve the energy in your arms.

thanks shinkenger!
 
You people need to stop posting while I sleep, how am I supposed to keep up?

RetroStation said:
The right one is more natural; the reverse grip stance seems forced because her footwork is identical to the natural stance, which I don't think should be the case.

Think of reverse grip as an extension of the fist, so if anything, the sword should be positioned behind her (think Ragna, except actually holding the sword), and the hand should be switched to be in line with the back leg. More weight should be placed on her back leg in that case because it's a defensive posture. LP would be a jab, MP would be an elbow w/ the free hand, and HP would have her step forward and swipe, with a second press doing a backswipe, returning her to neutral.

This makes a lot of sense, wasn't really thinking about it too thoroughly. I'll try something that looks more like this n' see where it goes.

Denizen said:
I really recommend looking at Valentine's moves. Not only does she hold her weapon away from her opponent, she holds it behind her back in a reverse grip and it still looks fine in game.

Yeah I took a look at her moves. The reason I used Parasoul as an example instead was because Parasoul is a better case of classic swordsmanship, even though her fighting style would be completely different from Annie's. Valentine gets away with having a reverse grip because she not only uses various weapons, but her entire fighting style is unconventional. I'm not saying Annie should have a conventional fighting style, I just don't think she'd fight anything like Valentine does.

Night Phyre said:
I'm flattered :)

There are two main things that I think would improve either of the stances (the second of which I prefer), are as follows:
  • Bent knees. I know we're not going for super realism, but bending the knees also give a sense of power and coiled-strength.
  • Sword facing. Blade edge always faces opponent. Again, good habit, but also coneys readiness and focus.
Standby for next post (tomorrow), I'll have something extra for you.

I'll probably have two different stances again in an attempt to narrow in on something more suitable to her character.
 
I don't know how I missed this thread, but awesome work and suggestions. I'm slowly backtracking and trying to see if I can chime in on the sword suggestions. Best of luck man! Also double congrats on Mike seeing this thread and giving you props, dude!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skullmageddon
.42. said:
Reverse grip is to swordsmanship what holding a pistol sideways is to marksmanship.
Kind of?
With a long blade it's absolute shit, but with shorter blades it's actually a very viable technique called an Icepick grip. Since Annie has had hundreds of years to practice and she's using a short sword, it's very likely that she knows how to use a reverse grip even if she usually employs a forward grip.

Sanoblaze said:
also having the sword rest on your shoulder is a way you can conserve the energy in your arms.
Yeah, but it's not a combat stance by any means. It's basically a method of transporting a heavy weapon, it's never meant to be held that way in a combat situation.
 
Skullmageddon said:
I'll probably have two different stances again in an attempt to narrow in on something more suitable to her character.

I'm going full-out for you, tomorrow. I've been having a terrible time finding applicable pictures on the internet, so I'm just going to make some new stuff for you. Basically. I'f I've talked about it, I'm going to take a picture of it and post it here so you can just see it.

Standard? Yes. Offense? Yes. Cross-stance? You betcha. Reverse grip? Why the hell not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lavama, Skullmageddon and RetroStation
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back