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Another training diary that no one will read or care about

Hirokuni said:
3.) You don't have to jump so much as Parasoul. She does well enough on the ground. Plus, you can get yourself into bad situations if your moves whiffs or if your opponent catches on.

Her ground game and dash is actually really good imo.
 
Quick thing I learned with Val: the s.mpx2 -> c.lk reset that I do in the corner does not work midscreen. The vacuum from s.mp isn't strong enough to pull the opponent in range for it.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
Her ground game and dash is actually really good imo.
Her ground to ground game is good, but if someone jumps, what options does she have but to jump to meet them with a j.lp or j.lk? She doesn't have anything like (to use a Guilty Gear example) Ky's 2HS that's a good anti-air normal that pops them into the air for a full combo. Sure, she can stuff IADs with c.mp as a defensive measure, but she's not going to get anything off of it.
 
Cynical said:
Her ground to ground game is good, but if someone jumps, what options does she have but to jump to meet them with a j.lp or j.lk? She doesn't have anything like (to use a Guilty Gear example) Ky's 2HS that's a good anti-air normal that pops them into the air for a full combo. Sure, she can stuff IADs with c.mp as a defensive measure, but she's not going to get anything off of it.

Ground pokes are more about pressuring opponents when they land or are on the ground. C.HP can anti air, and is decent to throw out once in a while, but in general air to air is probably where you can anti air best.

You do have to take the risk though, and it's worth it. Don't forget that even if they jump, and you wiff your dashing poke, it doesn't mean they can punish it (or at least not hard counter it, they might get a mix up on you). Actually hitting can stuff a lot of stuff, low them out of jumps, set up pressure strings by chaining to other things like fireballs or overheads, etc.
 
Cynical said:
a good anti-air normal that pops them into the air for a full combo. Sure, she can stuff IADs with c.mp as a defensive measure, but she's not going to get anything off of it.
Tears have ridiculous hit stun. You can use them to get conversions.
214LK, then MK to set up against air approaches, you can use detonate [2]8LK to knock them out of the air or force them to stop dashing or whatever they're doing and block.

You can also use 214LK then back dash into c.MP to detonate the tear for a conversion or mix up, having tears set up when they give you space is always a good idea.
You can use Pillar as anti air and also c.HP.

j.214LK xx j.LP creates a fast explosion in front of you which creates an huge wide hitbox that lingers for awhile, also gives you a free conversion, great against IAD or air approaches since you back up while leaving the hitbox in front of you, while you escape.
Also there is nothing wrong with j.LP, j.HP to get meet someone air to air, or jumping into an air throw.

j.LP is really nasty with it's disjointed hitbox, everything just slides into it and gets hit.
Tears solve problems but they take some getting used to.

With a little bit of creativity Parasoul pretty much has an answer for everything.
 
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Watch the Who Ya'll Like with Konkrete vs. DDB.

It was kind of a mismatch in terms of player skill, but there's still a lot of really good examples of Noah blowing him up with tears + footsies. The tear > c.MP spacing + hit confirms in particular are really cool, and I don't see many parasouls do that.
 
So, a question for those of you who play on stick:
How the everliving fuck did you learn to do the 44/66 dash motions with any kind of consistency?

Before SG, I played fighting games on keyboard, where that motion is super-easy. I pretty much had to switch to stick to save my wrists, but I *still* cannot do this motion worth a shit, after over 300 hours of experience, as evidenced by how often I slowly walk forward or how "stuttery" my dashes always are.

I've got a PP macro that I use for airdashes, but whenever I use it on the ground, I get standing punches for some reason.
 
I'm pretty sure you need to already be moving to use the PP shortcut on the ground. I'm not too great at stick-dashing either, I usually can get 66 somewhat consistently but 44 is harder. I guess it depends on your stick and how "broken-in" it is.
 
ChexGuy said:
I'm pretty sure you need to already be moving to use the PP shortcut on the ground.
I don't think that's true at all. You can press PP to start dashing while standing still.
Cynical said:
Before SG, I played fighting games on keyboard, where that motion is super-easy.
I've got a PP macro that I use for airdashes, but whenever I use it on the ground, I get standing punches for some reason.
Switch to keyboard it's hype.
But as for your macro... The only reason it would give you a standing normal is if you tried to hit it while you were already dashing, (Dash, cancelled into a normal and then I think s.LP takes priority.)
Maybe the button kinda wobbly and maybe getting recoil and hitting itself twice. Similar to how if you smack an old mouse left click really hard and remove your finger fast it goes down, and then bounces up, but the force knocks it back down again getting a double click.
 
I've made up my mind:

I've got a big match against Fenster in two weeks, so I don't have time to learn a new character just yet. But as soon as that match is over, Parasoul is going in the trash, and I'm switching to Filia.

Yes, I hate the feel of Filia's stubby-armed ground normals. But I have to have either Updo or Pillar assist, and I'm getting absolutely nowhere with Parasoul. No matter how much time I spend with her, she's nothing but a liability as soon as she comes in.
 
Cynical said:
So, a question for those of you who play on stick:
How the everliving fuck did you learn to do the 44/66 dash motions with any kind of consistency?

The simplest answer, practice. Become one with the stick. You don't need to input the dash motion too fast, relatively speaking, so I would say practice doing the motions at slower speeds ( even if you don't get a dash result ) and then start to ramp up the speed, you'll get the hang of it but getting comfortable and confident on a stick can take a little time. You could also try holding the stick differently and seeing if it flows easier for you, for example sometimes I hold the stick a little different for charge characters than I do for motion characters. I will say too, in SG I find it easier to push PP for forward dash, I can hit it pretty consistently with MP+HP but occasionally I'll get a punch instead. For back dash, I'll usually do the 4->4 motion since I can't hit the 4+PP consistently.

I don't know if you play street fighter at all, but I used to practice dashing/mobility with Ryu. Something as simple as 5-10 minutes a day when you're in training room ( or however often you play ) can help a lot over time. I don't think this is too applicable in SG, but in SF it's useful to learn the timing of buffering a dash in the "reversal window" of recovery frames of a move, or on wakeup, so it comes out as soon as your character is active. More good dash practice -> Learn how to dash into ultra/super using Guile or DeeJay in SF4

Hope this helps, sorry for the wall of text :)
 
Cynical said:
I've made up my mind:

I've got a big match against Fenster in two weeks, so I don't have time to learn a new character just yet. But as soon as that match is over, Parasoul is going in the trash, and I'm switching to Filia.

Yes, I hate the feel of Filia's stubby-armed ground normals. But I have to have either Updo or Pillar assist, and I'm getting absolutely nowhere with Parasoul. No matter how much time I spend with her, she's nothing but a liability as soon as she comes in.

Fortune/Fiber isn't a bad choice either.

Both Val and Fortune can get a lot of mileage out of Cerecopter.
 
Val can't convert off of Fiber Upper.

Plus, I dislike the puppet character aspect of Fortune (that's an archetype I've never been able to get along with).
 
Cynical said:
Val can't convert off of Fiber Upper.

Plus, I dislike the puppet character aspect of Fortune (that's an archetype I've never been able to get along with).

Do what other people do then, play head-on
 
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Cynical said:
Val can't convert off of Fiber Upper.

EDIT: Also, if I play like I have been the last couple nights, there'll be an 0-7 on the 12th. Gotta get it together.
 
I think I found one of the major problems on my dashes; when I'm doing some moves -> dash, I'm frequently inputting the dash too early, and doing it during the end of whatever move, instead of after the move ends. Hence why I'm walking forward slowly so often.

Particularly guilty of this with Parasoul blockstring -> tear -> c.mp to detonate. I want to do that dash as soon as I see the tear go boom, but the c.mp still has a lot of move left.

It's like I write here so often; gotta slow down a touch.
 
Cynical said:
I think I found one of the major problems on my dashes; when I'm doing some moves -> dash, I'm frequently inputting the dash too early, and doing it during the end of whatever move, instead of after the move ends. Hence why I'm walking forward slowly so often.

Particularly guilty of this with Parasoul blockstring -> tear -> c.mp to detonate. I want to do that dash as soon as I see the tear go boom, but the c.mp still has a lot of move left.

It's like I write here so often; gotta slow down a touch.

- It's great that you can understand why things work/don't work as opposed to just knowing "this is how you do something" -> Keep up the practice!

- It's your Training Diary, I say write as often you like :) If anybody doesn't approve, fuck em
 
Hahaha, when I said "gotta slow down a touch", I was referring to my in-game execution, not my posting here. Going too fast through my combos and blockstrings is a problem that plagues me in general.
 
Consistency.

I don't have it.

Some nights, I get perfected more games than I win; then others, against the same people, I'll go roughly even.

I wish I could get over that shit.
 
I have that same problem too man. It's rough stuff. All I can advise is hang in there. :(
 
God, I wish I could figure out WTF I'm doing wrong with Parasoul.

I tried some Fillia BnB's in training mode, and it looks like I'm stuck with Para, unfortunately. I can't do anything with Filia; her basic s.hp -> j.hp -> ADC -> j.lk -> j.hk -> c.lk restand is so far beyond my execution abilities that switching to Updo isn't an option. But, I can't do anything good with Parasoul, either, despite having hundreds of hours of practice. I have no idea why; I try to mimic what other people do with her in neutral/block pressure situations, but when I try it, it magically doesn't work.
 
Cynical said:
God, I wish I could figure out WTF I'm doing wrong with Parasoul.

But, I can't do anything good with Parasoul, either, despite having hundreds of hours of practice. I have no idea why; I try to mimic what other people do with her in neutral/block pressure situations, but when I try it, it magically doesn't work.


you wanna play some games tomorrow? i wanna see how you're playing her.
 
Is retail fine? I don't have Beta installed right now, after a hard drive failure on Sunday evening.

EDIT: Link to your steam account? A search is only showing a group that your name is mentioned in.
 
Cynical said:
Is retail fine? I don't have Beta installed right now, after a hard drive failure on Sunday evening.

EDIT: Link to your steam account? A search is only showing a group that your name is mentioned in.

ha i should already be on your friends list.
pbacque|need a new name, that's you right?
 
Ugh.

Hours of practicing the "advanced" route through the Bella Flowchart combo in training mode. Still can't do it even 1/4th of the time. Wondering if I'll ever be able to. If not, I don't know where I go with the game, given that having less than 6K without a jump-in simply isn't acceptable damage with her.

Everything still sucks with Parasoul. Every single time I try using an overhead in a match, I get blown up for it. The light-to-heavy air chains almost never do shit for me; I always miss with the light. And I'm locked into this character basically because Val (the only character I can play remotely competently) requires either Pillar or Updo to function at all, and I can't do Filia's basic air chains.

Ugh.
 
Well, that was humiliating. Played something like 40 games against @guitalex2007 with him picking random characters and just fucking around, and still won something like three games total.

My resets suck compared to those of anyone decent, and with the new Bella BnB, I don't have any at all on that character.
 
Guitalex has been an incredible player since before the pc version was even released. He was wrecking people left and right on srk like a month after the game was released. I wouldn't consider it humiliating to lose streak against him myself.
 
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Cynical said:
Well, that was humiliating. Played something like 40 games against @guitalex2007 with him picking random characters and just fucking around, and still won something like three games total.

My resets suck compared to those of anyone decent, and with the new Bella BnB, I don't have any at all on that character.
Sometimes the best resets don't take that much work. Find spots to stop hitting buttons where you could ambiguously cross up, cross under or do a low/throw. Like with Bella, c.LK, c.MK is a good spot to stop, because from there you can run stop to fake cross under or actually cross under, or wait to low/throw, or command grab. Simple, ambiguous as hell.

Also, if it helps you feel better, I can use the whole cast and I frequently pick random select. Yes, I'm incredibly masochistic. I do pick the assists, though. Can't pass up certain combinations like Double with Pinion Dash or Squigly with Excellebella, because they set up resets.

I started playing with every character because I wanted to have a better understanding of what each character could do and their strengths and weaknesses. I found that I had more fun when I challenged myself. I still got salty as hell when you won, because I never go easy on anyone, no matter who I'm playing as. So give yourself some credit too since I was going all out as best as I could.

Some tips, I guess. The neutral is the most important part. I know a few combos with everyone, a few resets and that's it. It's how you move and try to get the first hit that matters most.

If you're blocking, it's important to pushblock, absolute guard and pushblock guard cancel to stay alive and turn the tide.
 
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guitalex2007 said:
Sometimes the best resets don't take that much work. Find spots to stop hitting buttons where you could ambiguously cross up, cross under or do a low/throw. Like with Bella, c.LK, c.MK is a good spot to stop, because from there you can run stop to fake cross under or actually cross under, or wait to low/throw, or command grab. Simple, ambiguous as hell.

Also, if it helps you feel better, I can use the whole cast and I frequently pick random select. Yes, I'm incredibly masochistic. I do pick the assists, though. Can't pass up certain combinations like Double with Pinion Dash or Squigly with Excellebella, because they set up resets.

I started playing with every character because I wanted to have a better understanding of what each character could do and their strengths and weaknesses. I found that I had more fun when I challenged myself. I still got salty as hell when you won, because I never go easy on anyone, no matter who I'm playing as. So give yourself some credit too since I was going all out as best as I could.

Some tips, I guess. The neutral is the most important part. I know a few combos with everyone, a few resets and that's it. It's how you move and try to get the first hit that matters most.

If you're blocking, it's important to pushblock, absolute guard and pushblock guard cancel to stay alive and turn the tide.

With a reset on Bella c.lk -> c.mk, what do you do to hit them with if you choose to not switch sides, since they're in the air after the c.mk launcher? Or do you just let them land?

(Also, I had figured that the "snap the half-health Val to bring in the full-health Para" that you did several times was just you making it harder for yourself by finding a "bad" way to spend meter. I'm kinda surprised that you wanted Val out that badly.
 
Cynical said:
With a reset on Bella c.lk -> c.mk, what do you do to hit them with if you choose to not switch sides, since they're in the air after the c.mk launcher? Or do you just let them land?

(Also, I had figured that the "snap the half-health Val to bring in the full-health Para" that you did several times was just you making it harder for yourself by finding a "bad" way to spend meter. I'm kinda surprised that you wanted Val out that badly.
c.lk or Diamond Drop.

The snapping was because the biggest problem I was having was Pillar. With Pillar gone, I could approach without a care.
 
guitalex2007 said:
c.lk or Diamond Drop.
Does that mean "let them land, low/throw mixup" or does it mean "cancel the c.mk with a runstop so that they don't go airborne" (actually, I don't know if cancelling the c.mk so that they don't go airborne is even possible, but I don't know how either of those will hit an airborne opponent, unlike Kancho)?
 
Cynical said:
Does that mean "let them land, low/throw mixup" or does it mean "cancel the c.mk with a runstop so that they don't go airborne"?
Let them land. The run stop is so as to let them think it might cross under. If you dont do it, they'll know where they will land.

The bonus being that you might actually cross under if you wait the right time to stop the run.
 
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Why on earth is it so hard to do Level 3 in neutral in an actual match?

In a combo? No problem! In training? No problem! In game? Dash. EVERY TIME.

I'm finally starting to realize that trying to rush down Filia when in neutral is a BAD IDEA. I certainly go in once I get the advantage, don't get me wrong, but I need to try to force something from a safe distance to get the advantage first.
 
Cynical said:
I'm finally starting to realize that trying to rush down Filia when in neutral is a BAD IDEA. I certainly go in once I get the advantage, don't get me wrong, but I need to try to force something from a safe distance to get the advantage first.

That's a good idea, but keep in mind it heavily depends on who you're facing. Sometimes it can be very detrimental in my experience to say "I'm never going to play like X in Y match up unless Z happens", cause than you're just making your game a bit more static and predictable. IMO you want to be aware of how probable something is of working, but at the same time you want to watch and know your opponent to see what bases he's leaving open and what you can "get away with".

Like for example, just running up and throwing is generally not very likely to work most of the time. But if you see a guy has a set up where he just crouch blocks and calls a dp assist in response to certain things...
 
Cynical said:
Why on earth is it so hard to do Level 3 in neutral in an actual match?

In a combo? No problem! In training? No problem! In game? Dash. EVERY TIME.

I had (and still have) this problem, and I think taking a long hard look at your inputs for the different situations for level 3. For me, I kind of found out that I have a very loose method of doing quarter circles, so when I'm in a pressured situation I end up garbling the motion.
 
God, I am so fucking tired of being complete shit.

For months on end now, I've been in the same boat- I crush the complete beginners, and anyone who has the faintest clue completely destroys me for free with literally zero effort. I learn new pressure-paths through my blockstrings, upgrade my combos, learn new mixups... and nothing changes. I stay stuck at this level for-fucking-ever.

Thanks to tonight's session, I now know that the time for anyone else in the world to go from "hasn't touched the game before" to "better than me by miles" is two weeks. Two weeks is all it takes for anyone else to be able to beat what I've been able to do with 5 months.

Fucking pathetic.
 
dude. you played street fighter before i assume. so my advice if you're having trouble is up your neutral. if you can do that you'll be fine for the most part. i play filia and fortune and squigs,(fukua don't count yet) and a noobish bella(sucks really hard at neutral but know the mix ups once i get in). i can give you tips on filia if you want.
 
Cynical said:
God, I am so fucking tired of being complete shit.

For months on end now, I've been in the same boat- I crush the complete beginners, and anyone who has the faintest clue completely destroys me for free with literally zero effort. I learn new pressure-paths through my blockstrings, upgrade my combos, learn new mixups... and nothing changes. I stay stuck at this level for-fucking-ever.

Thanks to tonight's session, I now know that the time for anyone else in the world to go from "hasn't touched the game before" to "better than me by miles" is two weeks. Two weeks is all it takes for anyone else to be able to beat what I've been able to do with 5 months.

Fucking pathetic.
I spend a lot of time practicing, trying to get better, and I still haven't caught up with you. I've got specific things to try and deal with your team, and you're still able to counter it. In my opinion, your Para/Bella has improved a lot from when I first played against you.
Jesus...don't be so Cynical.
 
I have to stop not going for DHCs that will kill because I'm scared of the red life on the next character. Twice today, I gave games away because I decided to not go for the DHC that would kill because Para had a ton of red life, and then Val died quickly, and Para lost the red life anyways.
 
Cynical said:
I have to stop not going for DHCs that will kill because I'm scared of the red life on the next character. Twice today, I gave games away because I decided to not go for the DHC that would kill because Para had a ton of red life, and then Val died quickly, and Para lost the red life anyways.

This is a good thing to recognize
 
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