Assist call layout request.

[Stuff]

I had decided to use a team of three when I had noticed this but I noticed that each assist hogs a button. This is an issue to me because this makes it hard for me to H fiber + assist 1 because a2 occupies both calls that use the hk button and it's also difficult to do L giant step + assist 2 because a1 occupies both lk button calls.

This layout also makes it so that no matter which button you need to special + assist no single assist will be in the way.

If I didn't make sense it goes like this:

Original

Assist 1: lp+mk lk+mp lk+hp
Assist 2: lp+hk mp+hk hp+mk
bold indicates shared buttons

Proposed:

Assist 1: lp+mk lk+hp mp+hk
Assist 2: lp+hk lk+mp mk+hp

Here's a picture:

Spoiler

Maybe there was a reason against this and I had asked a few people how they felt before hand and they didn't like too much but this way every single assist call doesn't hog a button and I also find this layout easier to remember but maybe people won't like either but it doesn't hurt to ask so I asked.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Icky]

Makes sense to me, I wouldn't mind the change.

 

[Dime]

Mp+hk being assist 1 is bad. Would totally kill mp specials into assist 2. So pls no.


The way it is as as far as medium and to light and medium to heavies, is perfect. If anything needs tweaking it lights to heavies and vice versa. Leave the mediums alone though pls.

 

[Stuff]

bad how? what move are you using? like I'm glad you're stating you're opposing the idea but all I'm reading is: "I don't like it but I'm not gonna tell you why"

also the proposed version is interchangeable I just want all assist calls to have unique buttons.

 

[Dime]

all I'm reading is: "I don't like it but I'm not gonna tell you why"

How does "would totally kill mp specials into assist 2"

Not tell you what i was talking about?

 

[Stuff]

because a lot of inputs don't overlap so I don't understand what you mean also mp has priority for both versions using mp currently how it is

edit: this is as headless fortune which does have overlapping things like mp scratch and cat slide mp scratch always comes out using either lk+mp or mp+hk the proposed version won't really change this

 

[Dime]

because a lot of inputs don't overlap so I don't understand what you mean also mp has priority for both versions using mp currently how it is

This means nothing of what you said before. Before you said that i didnt state "why" i didnt want it the way you proposed.

Now you are saying its because you dont understand, and because mp has priority on both versions. Which is far far from:


"You just dont like it and wont give reasons why"


As far as your new concern. I understand what you are talking about. But your proposal, while it is beneficial in some areas, is detrimental in others. Like what i said.

As far as mp being accessible for both assists, yes, it is, and i like it that way. With painwheel i can mp stinger plus assist 1 or mp stinger plus assist 2, which is great for me at neutral because it gives me dynamic approach options that wouldnt be there if i couldnt do it.

 

[Stuff]

the proposed change doesn't change that though =/ It only switched them silly so you still get the same thing and a lot of things aren't really affected

 

[Colossi]

Mp+hk being assist 1 is bad. Would totally kill mp specials into assist 2. So pls no.

MP+LK

 

[Dime]

the proposed change doesn't change that though =/ It only switched them silly so you still get the same thing and a lot of things aren't really affected

Hmmm.. Ok then. At least as a beta test maybe. I dont like being able to call assist 1 as mk +hp for aesthetic reasons! but since when i manually call assists this doesnt change what i do and it doesnt seem to change any special plus assist things that i use (i have all kinds that i use for many characters depending on the assists I'm using with said character) then it seems ok.


Oh wait, hell no.


I currently call out manual assists via lk+mp and mk+hp which are both assist 2 by your proposal. So id have to weird my fingers out in order to manually call assist 1 on stick, or do the finger stretching lk+hp input you propose.


No, i thought for maybe a sec i could get behind this, but no pls, do not want.

 

[Sydoh]

This would make hitting assists manually very weird.

 

[Stuff]

I am aware that change is hard but I don't feel it changes much. (I already hit assist calls manually and use macros because of various conversions or strategic reasons so I myself don't understand what the issue with change is)

 

[Colossi]

yo
right stick assists is the key to victory

 

[Ninja]

HAH~! THE JOKE'S ON YOU BITCHES CAUSE I USE MACROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSS~!!!!!!

 

[Dime]

I am aware that change is hard but I don't feel it changes much. (I already hit assist calls manually and use macros because of various conversions or strategic reasons so I myself don't understand what the issue with change is)

Change is fine and i use macros as well as I'm pretty sure jem does as well, most high level sg players use assist macros.

But what you propose makes certain things exceptionally uncomfortable to do. I do use manual assists for combos and such and the change you propose makes what i do very annoying. All because you wont change your team makeup like others have done such as myself when the manuals are in contention with specials and such.

 

[Stuff]

I do pretty much every different assist call manually for different conversions for fortune.

I have macro 1 for lp+lk+mp
I have macro 2 for block strings it uses lp+mk
I do throw conversions by calling an assist this requires something different I do mp+hk I also use this to do the double dp fiber + beat extend (double dp is only possible with a duo or big band as anchor and I don't want big band anchor)
Back when I had lnl assist for extra damage I would call assist with hp+mk

EDIT: now that I have a team of three again sometimes I still do the same thing and don't really have an issue

I don't see the awkwardness at all =/
it's not even difficult it just takes practice friends.

 

[Dime]

Your first macro gives you pushblock, throw break and assist 1 call all on one button. Perhaps if you didnt use that huge option select and instead used something for fiber you wouldnt be having the problem you are having.

My macros are assist 1 and assist 2 respectively. I may have to give up an assist in order to get a dash/pushblock macro though, but that will have to be a sacrifice i make. No combination is perfect, and the fact that you have a 3 button os on your macro makes me even less concerned about button issues that we ALL have and deal with, that you want changed (to suit you) because you want your macro os and other things as well.

There are lots of things id like changed about the button config but everything i want causes issues in other places and there is no net benefit. I see no net benefit FOR THE GAME ITSELF from what you propose. I see benefit to you... Same as i see benefit to myself for things i personally would want changed. But i dont ask for them because i know they would throw other shit out of wack.


Id be fine with your changes if they didnt affect me, but they do, so i dont like your changes.

 

[Sydoh]

This also makes it hard to explain to newbies how to do assists.

It's easy to say "you just do diagonal LM for A1 and MH for A2" but now you can't say that with this new layout.

 

[Stuff]

It's the same thing :P just so happens they share a button now.

edit: It looks even easier now if you ask me but I implore this be tried out at least

 

[guitalex2007]

Ok read the proposed change and it doesn't register in my head.

The four buttons on the left calling assist 1 and the four buttons on the right calling assist 2 makes sense to me.

This seems to stem from wanting to use macros to perform moves, which can be corrected by not doing that and just tapping macro, then doing the move.

 

[Stuff]

Knew that already but wanted something simpler to use. Or just have assist macro 1 and 2 only count for assist 1 and 2 that way input errors happen less so.

 

[IsaVulpes]

I don't use assist macros, but I don't see why this would be harder to input manually.. Someone care to tell me what I'm missing? Reserving my judgement until then.

I doubt this will change though, given muscle memory etc.. Well, maybe everyone other than me runs assist macros and just has to rebind them.

 

[Stuff]

Upon further testing the double dp thing I like to do can't be done in this layout because fiber and assist call have to start up on the same frame and different timing doesn't seem to work and I kinda need the timing to work. Not only that doing special then macro also messes up my throw conversion for Fortune because the timing has to be exact and doing so I dunno how to solve this really (although this isn't an issue because no single assist hogs one punch button).

I guess I could just run a duo or put big band the not anchor character as an anchor (or become a timing and execution god). It's not about the macro I play without them sometimes but the point of this is: "I need my assist and special to start at the same frame of input or else what I want to do does not work."

I cannot do a special first then macro which may help but likely not (and would result in some real cheap stuff) so I can't really think of anything that would work I'm even trying to make a different layout everyone would like but it appears to be impossible because the accepted way will share the same button every time. I really wish I could figure something out that would be something to try out and work for everyone like maybe an option to select between these two layouts although that would imply this idea even gets in. (and likely won't but it was worth a shot.)

Here's what I mean in video form:

There are other things where this type of timing can probably beneficial but I haven't tested with other things. (also even if I were to do assist then special faster it would still not work the same way as assist and special at the same time but if you can show me a way to do it your way I will thank you and like you forever)

 

[Dime]

You are going to have to bite the bullet and use a duo. Or use fortune second and BB third.

Or fortune first and BB third.

Treat this the same as you would dhc compatibility. Build your team around it, plan for it. I cant do every special plus assist i would like, i have to plan out my team and use what it has.

 

[Kuro Val Enix]

I'd suggest to use BB as third and fortune on point. As a matter of fact I had to choose too, when I built my current team, in order to make things works as smoothly as possible, so I kinda understand that you want things to work. Just deal with it :| it's what all of us have done at a certain point.

 

[Mike_Z]

I see no net benefit FOR THE GAME ITSELF from what you propose. I see benefit to you... Same as i see benefit to myself for things i personally would want changed. But i dont ask for them because i know they would throw other shit out of wack.

This is basically exactly what I was going to say.

From a logical standpoint your layout makes sense, but currently you can explain that either a / or \ diagonal calls an assist; using L+M gives you A1, and L+H gives you A2. That pretty much trumps any single-frame BS in terms of reasons for control layout.
(I personally do all my calls manually and use the same diagonal for both, so it would mess with that, but that's way less of a reason. Except that the only reason I can do them all manually is because both /'s call different assists and I don't have to change what my fingers do, only where my hand is.)

Though I am willing to look at special move input priority for characters, things like F,D,DF,F+P+K giving a Fiber instead of a Rekka, if someone wants to tackle what those 'should' be.

"I need my assist and special to start at the same frame of input or else what I want to do does not work."

That's entirely your problem for coming up with a thing where that's the case. :^| I do not believe it warrants changing the control layout which affects everyone.
If you rely on stuff like that with macros too much then getting snapped will bite you HARD, even if there were changed controls.

Also since I tested it just now, your HK Fiber/L Beat Extend combo works with up to 4 frames between the assist call and the special input. That's TOTALLY doable separately by calling the assist in the middle of the DP motion. In fighting game judgment that's like only medium-difficult. :^P

 

[Stuff]

Well if it's doable I'll practice it then. Thanks Guitalex for the idea and Mike for the convincing.

 

[guitalex2007]

I think it would be nice to not have assist macros be usable to do moves (I'm looking at you, Pillar with L Bomber assist), but it's probably not a fixable thing.

 

[Dime]

I think it would be nice to not have assist macros be usable to do moves (I'm looking at you, Pillar with L Bomber assist), but it's probably not a fixable thing.

Seems to me this gripe is more about special plus assist rather than macro plus assist? Cause the way its worded seems to suggest not liking invincible special with a lockdown special to cover it.

But getting rid of macro plus assist doesnt change this, it just makes one have to do it manually with hk+mp pillar... Which is the way i do it now... It results in a safe on block pillar if the opponent was grounded and it results in a full combo if the opponent got hit.

..
But your gripe seems to be special plus assist, not macro. And if it is special plus assist then i wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment. Special plus assist is one of the most enjoyable things about sg to me from a mechanics perspective.

If I'm reading you wrong then i apologize in advance.

 

[guitalex2007]

Seems to me this gripe is more about special plus assist rather than macro plus assist? Cause the way its worded seems to suggest not liking invincible special with a lockdown special to cover it.

But getting rid of macro plus assist doesnt change this, it just makes one have to do it manually with hk+mp pillar... Which is the way i do it now... It results in a safe on block pillar if the opponent was grounded and it results in a full combo if the opponent got hit.

..
But your gripe seems to be special plus assist, not macro. And if it is special plus assist then i wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment. Special plus assist is one of the most enjoyable things about sg to me from a mechanics perspective.

If I'm reading you wrong then i apologize in advance.

I don't think it's a bad thing to do assist and special. I'm sad that you can do it with one button.

Like how d,u+LP+HK does both pillar and call assist.

 

[Mr. X]

That would be easy on pad without macros.

 

[Dime]

I don't think it's a bad thing to do assist and special. I'm sad that you can do it with one button.

Like how d,u+LP+HK does both pillar and call assist.

Oh ok :)

Lol not that it matters but I'm completely fine with not being able to do it on one button... Though i dont mind my opponents having access to it either.

The macro that pisses me off is the throw break plus other stuff macro, I'd rather a tech be a tech and only a tech... Not an assist and a pushblock and a tech and a tag etc etc.

I hate option selects in general.