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Backer Build Discussion/Secrets/Speedrunning tricks

I had to mute some other audio I had, to hear that the restart / freeze glitch is banned. But well at least its clear now.
 
All you need to show is a screen capture of the end time so how would anyone know if you used the restart glitch?
 
It's kind of funny how the prototype's best 100% run is shorter than the backer preview's now

Thanks @TheGamaniac for the new wall jumps at 3:40 and the one after that
and @frig for the "hurt Ajna before the Warlock/Oont" idea

edit: prototype's longer*
 
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idea: put razmi in front and use tungars down attack to pull the enemy closer, in order to get max damage off razmis lv3 without using slow
 
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frig said:
idea: put razmi in front and use tungars down attack to pull the enemy closer, in order to get max damage off razmis lv3 without using slow
Oh, nice idea. I think Qadira could do something like that by getting behind enemies with her down attack and pushing them with her neutrals
 
havick9 said:
Oh, nice idea. I think Qadira could do something like that by getting behind enemies with her down attack and pushing them with her neutrals
i tried with that and ended up just a little short, then again i didnt have razmi in front, so its probably enough. i keep forgetting that you can even move ajna out of the front position

EDIT:
qadira can definitely do it if razmi is in front.

also, found this:
MMGFgEj.jpg
put ajna in back of the party + encounter manote from the right + get her hit (not killed) by manote fire wave = manote vulnerable to arrows
 
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frig said:
also, found this:
MMGFgEj.jpg
put ajna in back of the party + encounter manote from the right + get her hit (not killed) by manote fire wave = manote vulnerable to arrows

WELP, time to find a way to kill
Cat boss
with arrow, and we are ready to go.
 
Senvy said:
WELP, time to find a way to kill
Cat boss
with arrow, and we are ready to go.
hes actually invincible on the overworld, unfortunately, even in his later phases

EDIT: encountering (SECRET BOSS) in a later phase on the overworld requires using a glitch i found, which i explained on the discord as follows:
"i think i understand now
your checkpoint after getting killed by a boss is placed just far enough away to unload them when you respawn, resetting their health and position
but if the attack that kills you leaves them close enough to your spawn point, they dont unload
this is why oont skip only works with the staff swing, because it brings him close enough to you that he cant transform back into roti, because hes only roti when he initially loads
if ajna is in the back of the formation, and gets killed by an attack that brings scribble cat close (probably any of them except quake, laser, and the tip of flamethrower) his health isnt reset when you respawn and he remains in whatever phase he killed you in
if you walk to the left, though, far enough away to unload him, his health and position reset
unfortunately his hurtbox is set to be invincible when outside of battle
in every phase
so you cant use the bow and arrow to quick kill him"
no speedrun application yet but ill just put it out there in case it gives anyone any ideas
 
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Well the time is slowly running out, not much left till 15 Dec. Looks like everyone are trying to get the best time possible and doesn't have time to talk hehehe.
 
guess not, though maybe theres just not much to say. i submitted what i think will be my final time and im pretty happy with it. its hard to tell if it can win but im hoping so
 
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I'm a fan of the change for obvious reasons but has anyone else had trouble with recording with Shadow play or any other method? I guess I haven't tried since the build came out but I was barely able to record anything, let alone a speedrun.
 
I'm a fan of the change for obvious reasons but has anyone else had trouble with recording with Shadow play or any other method? I guess I haven't tried since the build came out but I was barely able to record anything, let alone a speedrun.
 
ive been using OBS

EDIT:
havick9 said:
The new Manote skip luck factor has removed so much of the fun from this for me.
sorry! :^(
 
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havick9 said:
Going to need a lot of luck to beat this time I think. The new Manote skip luck factor has removed so much of the fun from this for me.

No suprise there. The 100% looks little like Clear + cat, because you can technically skip other 2 boss fights. And no suprise this kinda kill the fun on doing the runs. You skip 2, and on last one you can basically take damage to face as long as you perfect block

Which is kinda funny because now I have a lot more fun doing Clear? runs instead of 100%, probably because those skip exist.
 
well the contest is over This is what i sent in.

You'll notice that I moved were quadira and honey are spawned but it didn't really make a difference on the time. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how somebody got 2:21. 2:27 was my best.


Recording and playing is tough for my computer when i do long play sessions so the audio is desynced
 
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Tank said:
well the contest is over This is what i sent in.

You'll notice that I moved were quadira and honey are spawned but it didn't really make a difference on the time. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how somebody got 2:21. 2:27 was my best.


Recording and playing is tough for my computer when i do long play sessions so the audio is desynced

If I remember correctly they banned the glitch that allowed you to skip enemy ( freeze them )
 
Really? This contest is just a total bust with all of the rule changing. I hope they'll run another one later when the beta has more features/less bugs.
 
Senvy said:
If I remember correctly they banned the glitch that allowed you to skip enemy ( freeze them )
The official rules are on the indivisible website. So that's what's going to be used.
 
aw beans i lost

 
frig said:
aw beans i lost


Well I also lost. While watching both my and SingleScoop runs, I noticed few differences. He jumps down to the holes, where I run/slides which maybe are little different in time, but the most time I lost to him was with difference climbing techniques in 2 places.

Overall GJ on the runs. I'm probably again second in this contest hehehe

My time - 2:39:34 ( although I named highlight wrong )

pBgSb4r.png
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/211890665


I wonder what would happend if SingleScoop was first in both Clear and 100% contest.
 
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fun things

I rarely get this and when I do, my bad luck from the two boss skipping ruins the run

not really sure if Razmi's lv3 super flame pillar is really worth it compared to Qadira's lv3 since it takes some time to set it up w/o glare and the whole attack takes ages to be fully done
it will be in the next update when Qadira loses the charging attack lv3 though for her new blocking supers
 
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Sure, I'll resurrect this, I suppose. This post (And all posts onward, I guess.) will refer to the new backer build.

So I crashed it pretty far in. Reported, but not sure I'll attempt again today. There's a spot where you can helm breaker an enemy that respawns near a pit. Knocking it into the pit spawns two more but the old ones don't vanish.

Maybe a strange impression, but I don't like some of the new sound effects. Baozhai's coin sound effect is the one I immediately remember. But there are some others that are really "video gamey" and feel out of place with the rest. They might grow on me.

I ended up missing a lot of the hints in the new boss, but I don't think they need to be changed. It's a neat fight.

I greatly, greatly enjoyed Baozhai's ability to essentially steal turns from attacking enemies. By far my favorite new thing I encountered so far.
 
Kasumi said:
I don't like some of the new sound effects. Baozhai's coin sound effect is the one I immediately remember. But there are some others that are really "video gamey" and feel out of place with the rest. They might grow on me.
I might be entirely wrong but I think some of those are temp since they remind me of the ones Mike made for Robo-Fortune and we know they're outsourcing sound design to Raito, so his stuff might just not be in yet.
 
Nuna's plant trap ability is also one of the most useful i think considering it completely stops the enemy turn and deals dmg, made cat boss super super ez
 
Haven't gotten to test much since I went to work, but yeah, the Nuna trap was pretty immediately apparent as something that simplifies single enemy encounters. Does it actually have hitstun on the cat? It didn't on the manote if I recall.

Does Latigo's super hit multiple enemies at long range? It seemed to do it at melee range, but I wasn't sure since I was pretty much turning the game off at that point. Didn't seem to make a difference damage wise. Didn't get to try level 3 after level 2 either.

And someone please tell me about Baozhai, didn't get any time with her. I know you can time the harpoon throw for the coin in her level 1 and that her normal attack is a grab.
 
Oh man, I am gonna have a hard time not having Baozhai on my team in the full game if she stays like this.

Her neutral attack is unblockable. Which makes it perfect for breaking guards without having to have a hold button guard break. Downside is that it does no damage.

The other upside is that the coins you get from it make it worth using. Her up attack becomes crazy good when it's coin augmented. If you do it as your last attack in a combo it takes long enough that it'll interrupt enemy turns like Nuna can do.

Uh, just don't do it when your team is around. You'll accidentally wreck yourself. :PUJNA:
 
Baozhai's really cool. I don't know how much of her current moveset will stick (no grappling hook currently), but she's got some cool setups. Her Up-Attack works about how I was hoping, and it's really cool how it can interrupt enemy turns sometimes.

At the start of my playthrough I was a little worried about taking Razmi off the team because I was still getting used to dealing with blocking enemies, but then when I realized what Baozhai can do, I started experimenting a bit more. She definitely seems like a good pick if you want a team with similar benefits to having Razmi (easy grab breaks and good AoE), but focused on overall faster attacks/recovery. Definitely have to play around some more.

I didn't get into too many fights with Latigo yet, but it already seems like he's going to be a really really good character with 5-pips.
 
I hope there's an indicator added for how much ammo Latigo has. I kept forgetting when he was loaded.
 
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Yeah right now it feels easier to just burn all the ammo in one Action so you know where you're at, but I imagine reserving shots will be more important once we're actually managing different ammo benefits.
 
Aden said:
I might be entirely wrong but I think some of those are temp since they remind me of the ones Mike made for Robo-Fortune and we know they're outsourcing sound design to Raito, so his stuff might just not be in yet.

Not outsourcing, Raito is a bona-fide member of the team now. But to answer your question, yes, pretty sure the sounds are wip. I hope Baozai's coin sounds stay similar at least.
 
Latigo's special ammo is piercing, making it incredibly strong on the spider and big-ass Belus. Also great if you have Zebei launch multiple enemies in the air (IDK if Tungar can do that anymore... he should since he's not that strong). With the meter gain on launched targets, you practically earn the special ammo back while unloading damage. Kinda hard on the soldier guys, you have to get Ajna to do her AoE Guard Break or target each one with Baozhai's unblockable.

The cat was way easier this time around with Nuna. Stomp still hurts, but in the last build it was like "yeah this is hard but much more doable with Ginseng" now it's like "how do I manage meter with Latigo and Ginseng?" hardly even concerned about the cat lol.

Razmi's been toned way down in order to have the power of a magic launcher... but she has a magic launcher. Baozhai's attacks are kinda weird but have lots of potential; I never even tried to interrupt enemy attacks with the cannon. I think the coin cannon is unblockable, so there wouldn't even be any gamble on whether the enemy starts their turn or is passive. I'm just not sure what exactly her down attack is supposed to do, I guess it's just fast and reliable for single-target? I don't find it hard to set up combos with the cannon.
 
@J-Boogie said:
I hope there's an indicator added for how much ammo Latigo has. I kept forgetting when he was loaded.

Yeeeeeeah, I know "not having any unnecessary extra/character specific UI and communicate everything through VFX instead" was a core design principle in Skullgirls, and it worked out well for the most part, but for this game that idea just doesn't hold any water. The fact that you can waste turns reloading a full clip is..........fun. Where's his sweep attack? And who uses a four-shot six-shooter?

It would also be very helpful for Baozai's coins since it's not only hard to remember just how many you've stolen after spamming Neutral to start combos, each use of Up also consumes two coins instead of one, so it's good to know when you have a nice even number before you Up/Level 3. They could even show up as (two gold coins, then two silver coins, then back again) for even easier stockpile management at-a-glance! And the fact that I still don't know the max-stockpile of the coins or Ginseng's healing is a testament to the necessity of a few extra icons.
 
I'm guessing they'll be added. Hell, they changed Dhar's charge visual and I thought it was already fine (but he can hold twice as many charges now). Ginseng's visual is fine.
 
I really feel like the UI is too overbearing in ways that don't need to be and somewhat lacking in ways that it could be helpful at this point.

Latigo could just have some sort of counter somewhere, Baohzai as well for coins. We don't need the extra visual for juggle meter or that awful sound, you can see the meter rising faster by itself.

That said, it's not hard to count those things, but then again, you could count them for Ginseng and Dhar under the same logic.
 
Cheesedragon said:
... Where's his sweep attack? And who uses a four-shot six-shooter? ... And the fact that I still don't know the max-stockpile of the coins or Ginseng's healing is a testament to the necessity of a few extra icons.
For what little it may be worth... the sweep attack's animation seems to be currently used as his L1 Iddhi, his gun currently holds up to 5 bullets (not counting the fact that you can shoot up to 10 during his 3-tier Iddhi by mashing), Baozhai seems to cap out at 12 coins, and Ginseng's healing caps out at 6 uses of her blending attack (unblended to max: 4/9/14/22/30/40/60% healing).
HiroProtagonest said:
... Kinda hard on the soldier guys, you have to get Ajna to do her AoE Guard Break or target each one with Baozhai's unblockable. ... I think the coin cannon is unblockable, so there wouldn't even be any gamble on whether the enemy starts their turn or is passive.
A few things i've noticed while trying to gather numbers on everyone...
  • It would seem that it's not quite that Baozhai's coin-boosted cannons are unblockable... it's that the enemy won't block if someone isn't actively attacking at the time, and the cannonballs hit them for the same reason it can interrupt their turns... they take so long to drop after being fired that the game returns to the "Everyone is waiting for pips" state if she's the last person doing anything, thus dropping their guard or potentially taking their own turns. And if sometimes coined works when raw doesn't, it can be attributed to the fact that coined mortars explode on impact with the ground instead of dealing damage upon contact with the enemy, taking longer to do so.
  • Ajna does not, in fact, have an AoE guard break. Or at the very least, it shares the animation of her mid attack but not the arc... Neither does Dhar's. They seem to have the same horizontal reach, just not the depth to match. Wide-area guard breaking seems to be limited to either relevant Iddhi attacks, Razmi's uptiger magic, combining Zebei's spreadlauncher arrows with Tungar's downspin for a mass tech-break, or Baozhai's above-mentioned abuse of enemy blocking AI.
Also, Nuna's currently-active traps get beefier when she uses her upspike launcher, up to 2 boosts per trap, alongside the fact that she can have 3 traps on the field at once.
 
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