Backer Build Discussion/Secrets/Speedrunning tricks

[Aden]

Should I go back to updating the OP if people are contributing like this? I feel like people probably won't check it since we aren't speed running any more, but it's still nice to have everything in one place.

 

[HiroProtagonest]

Also, Nuna's currently-active traps get beefier when she uses her upspike launcher, up to 2 boosts per trap, alongside the fact that she can have 3 traps on the field at once.

Strategically placing one plant trap just far enough away from the automatic planting point also helps even more against Meownster.

 

[TheGamaniac]

I've yet to 100% confirm this, it seems to be panning out so far numberwise... with each individual level, Ajna gets 50 HP, everyone else gets 49 HP, and everyone gets what looks like an 0.1% damage improvement. Unsure if it has any affect on iddhi gain outside of said damage improvement (if even that) or pip speed.

Edit: I'm also increasingly sure that characters get a significant damage improvement for doing chains starting from a full 3 pips. Something to the tune of, oddly, +17.77% or thereabouts. Doesn't seem to apply to iddhi attacks... still trying to confirm this for sure.

 

[Aden]

So actually getting a bit of time to sit down, the fact Nuna gives you a free full juggle combo on the enemies turn is pretty nuts.

Also Latigo level 3 with specials loaded on Mantoe when he has all the enemies out is pretty amusing.

 

[TheGamaniac]

Even more things i'm now learning while i toy around with the mechanics;

• If you do an up+down technical break, the hit that actually breaks through does double damage. Which is to say... Not only is Baozhai's hipcheck her most damage-efficient use of 1 coin against a single target outside of her L1, it's the single largest hit your entire team can do without Iddhi. Use someone else's up attack and techbreak with the bump and you'll land an enormous 2970 damage at baseline charlevel and full pips. Technically G&H's iddhi-boosted down attack does more in one hit, but unlike Latigo's piercing shots the super ingredient actually punches through blocking on it's own.
  
• Latigo can use his L1 and L3 without any bullets already in the gun, and they will act as if he had a full set of 5 normal bullets. They work a bit differently with piercing ammo, though... his L1 will use any remaining pierce ammo if you keep shooting, and when it runs out immediately switch to hitting with normal shots. His L3, however? That'll carry whatever ammo type is loaded throughout all 5-10 shots, even if you only had 1 piercing bullet left, then reloads 5 normal shots afterwards. He is a REALLY good meter funnel.
• The bonus for full pips is indeed a thing, but the weird number is because i was thinking about it backwards... it's not a +17.77% bonus for being at full pips, it's a -15% penalty for not being full.
• Minor edit: Also worth mentioning that Baozhai pinches a penny for every person she pilfers with her mid attack at once. Pack them together and aim in the back for easy riches.

 

[Aden]

PSA; don't helmbreaker the red Belu by the cat pit. You will get an amusing bug that will lead to a hard crash.

Didn't get the end but once I knocked this last one in it just kept spawning endlessly rolling back into the pit so it kept filling more and more until it crashed.

 

[havick9]

Parrying laser has gotten much faster

 

[KZN02]

Given that Razmi has quite a lot of interesting lines, I'm curious if any characters had their personalities decided before the game is released. I can't help but compare her to Sucy and Tharja.

 

[@J-Boogie]

PSA; don't helmbreaker the red Belu by the cat pit. You will get an amusing bug that will lead to a hard crash.

Didn't get the end but once I knocked this last one in it just kept spawning endlessly rolling back into the pit so it kept filling more and more until it crashed.

Yeah, I managed to do that and *not* have it crash on XBox One.

Eventually it got to a point where a whole bunch of Belu were floating in the pit and I was stuck with no turns regenerating.

 

[Cheesedragon]

• The bonus for full pips is indeed a thing, but the weird number is because i was thinking about it backwards... it's not a +17.77% bonus for being at full pips, it's a -15% penalty for not being full.

Wait a minute, how would one even determine which it actually is without dev confirmation? I'm bad at math.

 

[Blessings]

Wait a minute, how would one even determine which it actually is without dev confirmation? I'm bad at math.

Probably something like
Damage with full pips minus damage without full pips divided by damage without full pips.
It's the formula for percent increase.

 

[Shan]

So I got to play the new preview and what a blast!
Had the Belu bug just today. (I even wanted to post about it being like "hahah guys look what I found" but turns out everyone knows already :> )

Latigo's normal attack after lvl2 super is amazingly strong. This character is really gonna be interesting, always been a fan of gunners in RPGs... Though I agree a visual tip showing how much he has munitions left would be cool (same goes for Baozhai with her coins).
Nuna is also mad powerful, I love interrupting enemy turns with the seed thingies she plants as her down attack.

 

[havick9]

Here's a good visual representation of what some people have been saying about Latigo's super ammo

I didn't expect it to be this strong

Belus are extremely annoying for speedrunning. If you bump into one, you'll have to die or reclient the game if you want its platforming AI to stay consistent. There might be a 3rd option where you kill it.

There's also those red belus above the cat pit that everyone's been glitching on who can soft lock you right after you kill the cat.

 

[KaboomKid]

So I finally got to spend a lot more time with the new Preview over the weekend. I picked up on a lot of random minor gameplay and non-gameplay related things that I'm sure a lot of you have probably noticed by now as well, but I don't think have been directly mentioned here in any threads yet. So I figured I'd jot them all down:

Spoiler: Gameplay Stuff

• It seems like running into enemies no longer initiates a Battle. I even noticed it with the Red Ogres a few times when I was able to bump into them with their backs turned. It's a little hard to test how consistent it is since enemies typically want to hit you once you're close anyway, but I wonder if this is the case for all enemies now, or might only happen with what the game might consider as "lower-level" enemies.
  
  
• Likewise, some enemy attacks no longer seem to initiate Battle either, even when you're close to the enemy. I saw this immediately with the Ahp's attacks, but obviously it also happened with projectiles like the Ahool's wind gusts. Maybe this could be a taste of how some enemies might now be content to zone you out until you can actually hit them?
  
  
• Most of you guys have probably noticed this, but just to put it out there, the new Iddhi orbs we see from juggling enemies are not just an added visualization of what the Iddhi bar is already doing by itself. The orbs are extra meter bonuses on top of additional meter we typically get from doing combos, and are only added once the orbs actually fly over to the bar. The orbs also vary in size depending on how much Iddhi they contribute to the bar. This feels to be a balance between the lesser meter gain of the Prototype, and the higher meter gain we saw in Preview v1. We can see that we still get a lot more meter from juggle combos now, but unlike Preview v1, we have to wait an extra second or two to cash it all out, which might be the difference in having to block another attack or not.
  
  
• You can still run from Battle, but you have to start by holding L1, and then hold R1 with it afterwards. Hopefully they iron this out a bit since Focus makes this a little janky now.
  
  
• Seems like defeating a sub-boss will now end the entire battle just like a typical boss fight. I found that when I confronted the first Red Ogre, and Rodney, I only had to kill those guys to end the fight. I wonder if this will be a thing for the full game?
  
  
• It doesn't seem like you can attack enemies as quickly after their turn is over as you could in Preview v1. It could just be based on a timer, but it feels as if you have to wait until they're at least back on "their side" of the Battle. If so, this probably prevents some dumb stuff from happening like Nuna trapping enemies multiple times while they're returning to their neutral spot, or Baozhai nuking your whole team because she targeted an enemy that was still returning from the players' side.

Spoiler: Character Stuff

• Barehanded Ajna's Iddhi gain from juggles is massive now. Unfortunately we don't get to unequip the axe later to really play around with it. Seriously though, look at the huge iddhi orbs those attacks generate.
  
  
• Thank goodness they finally implemented Ajna's revival mechanics. Nuna's revival mechanics are interesting too though. It surprised me to find that once Nuna is down, Ajna actually can't revive her right away. You have to wait for Nuna to revive herself (which is super fair considering how good she is once she's up). I wonder if any other characters might have unique revival tradeoffs like this too.
  
  
• Zebei's like, really good now. He and Razmi used to overlap a bit on the zoner/juggler role, with Zebei mainly being faster, but now it looks like he's just the stronger offensive character overall. I think that's fair, considering the utilities Raz still has.

Spoiler: Non-Gameplay Stuff

• The aliasing on the textures for 2D background objects has been greatly reduced from previous versions, regardless of your Anti-Aliasing setting. Very apparent when you Zoom in close.
  
  
• Hey, Ajna blinks during her standing idle animation now! Before, she only blinked in her crouching animation. The blinking is not on a regular loop either, which is very nice.
  
  
• Going into Inner Realm while inside the Pindayar's Cave will cause the running Preta to respawn every time you come back. It doesn't look like any of them are brave enough to enter the boss battle though.
  
  
• The background area around the left exit for Pindayar's Cave actually uses some of the new icy rock textures we saw for Mt. Sumeru in the Loka trailer.
  
  
• The version of Ajna's Theme we hear at the end of the Preview is a new version of the song that incorporates what sounds like a live recorded flute.
  
  
• Ratna says the Ringsels first appeared 16 years ago. That's Ajna's age isn't it? Hmm.

A lot of interesting tidbits and tweaks in this Update. It's too bad we won't get more hands on time with new builds, but it's been nice to feel how things have developed so far.