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Beast's Fury - Updates & Discussion

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Evil-Dog

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Hey guys, I'm Evil-Dog, the developer on Beast's Fury, here you'll find the discussion thread about Beast's Fury, our updates on the pre-alpha build leading all the way to our final demo build.
Current version: http://www.evildogserver.com/share/BeastsFuryDemo_v5b_READ_RELEASE_NOTES.zip

Everything is in progress, there are still missing features, there are plenty bugs, stay up to date, give us feedback, ask questions, complain about the game, show your love, all those things in this new Beast's Fury thread. Woo!

This thread is a continuation of our original kickstarter thread.
http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/beasts-fury-kickstarter-is-live.6714/

10463942_636389513124270_4410640635284025472_n.jpg
 
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@Evil-Dog Why is he sliding off the screen while getting hit?

@Moderator Move the posts into here when you get a chance
 
Didn't Evil-Dog confirm that the point is always at the feet? Which is why sometimes you can teabag the opponent if they're knocked down.

I just hopped into the thread though.

@Moderator Move the posts into here when you get a chance
Just link to the previous thread in the OP.
 
No idea what this screenshot is, what it shows and from what version. Clarify?
Don't wanna pollute the new shiny thread with discussion that I won't be continuing.

That screenshot is from 5b, the latest update as far as I know, doing Don's c.HP. It shows behavior that, without knowledge of the actual scripts etc, appears to be exactly what Skarmand said.
 
doing Don's c.HP. It shows behavior that, without knowledge of the actual scripts etc, appears to be exactly what Skarmand said.
I'll look into it, in this case, Vincent's position is still supposed be in its center as he's going through the different launch animation, but if there's a bug, then there's a bug. Added to todolist.

Why is he sliding off the screen while getting hit?
Depends on the case you're talking about, if you're talking about simple attacks, he's not. But in the image Mike_Z showed, he's doing Don's C.HP, in which case Vincent's point should still always be in the center so that seems like a bug that has been noted.

Didn't Evil-Dog confirm that the point is always at the feet? Which is why sometimes you can teabag the opponent if they're knocked down.
I meant the point is always at the center of the character and at the bottom, usually where the feet is, as opposed to the hip for instance. The tea bagging is a collision thing, not a root point thing.

doing Don's c.HP. It shows behavior that, without knowledge of the actual scripts etc, appears to be exactly what Skarmand said.
I'll look into it, in this case, Vincent's position should be in it's center as he's going through the different and that shouldn't happen, if there's a bug, then there's a bug.

And this conversation continues in the new thread: http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/beasts-fury-updates-and-discussion.6714/#post-239856
 
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Ok, so this is probably the first time I've seen this game (well, the last thread, anyway) but I really have to ask:

Is there ANY WAY for you to fix Vincent's standing idle animation? Or at least his head because that's what's off-putting for me. It looks like it's doing its own thing and not swaying in time with his body and it's really hard to look at
 
Ok, so this is probably the first time I've seen this game (well, the last thread, anyway) but I really have to ask:

Is there ANY WAY for you to fix Vincent's standing idle animation? Or at least his head because that's what's off-putting for me. It looks like it's doing its own thing and not swaying in time with his body and it's really hard to look at
Lol, I actually love his idle, it's subjective and I know many people don't like Vincent's danc-y idle. Many animations will need some rework, like Don's walk cycles, some attacks, etc. Until we have more funds, the only animation work we're doing is wrapping up everything we have right now. Redoing an entire animation is a good chunk of work. Non perfect animations will make it into the demo, the important is the gameplay until our demo can get us to the next phase of the project. That's my part of the work with creative designer Andrew Fein and all the feedback we get from the community here and everywhere else on our social sites.
 
I tried moving posts from the other thread to here, but I just fucked everything up super bad, so I've decided to leave old posts where they are :|
 
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I've decided to leave old posts where they are
I think that's totally fine. Thanks for trying. I point to the old thread in the OP so people can check it out if they want the past stuff.
 
y'know... i think this game could benefit from simpler sprites. would shift the focus and the budget to the game itself, maybe allow another programmer in, etc.

Alternate scenario, hire Lab Zero as consultant after robo fortune is done. IIRC, If skullgirls isn't proof enough of the team's skills, Mike Z helped making the new Killer Instinct IIRC.

Worst case scenario, scrap everything, do lower resolution art assets (go yatagarasu way, or even Pocket rumble if needed) and focus all into programming the universal rules and standards that will guide the gameplay. After that you'll have foundations to create a sequel or special version with all the gorgeous sprites you're using to sell the game today
 
y'know... i think this game could benefit from simpler sprites. would shift the focus and the budget to the game itself, maybe allow another programmer in, etc.

Alternate scenario, hire Lab Zero as consultant after robo fortune is done. IIRC, If skullgirls isn't proof enough of the team's skills, Mike Z helped making the new Killer Instinct IIRC.

Worst case scenario, scrap everything, do lower resolution art assets (go yatagarasu way, or even Pocket rumble if needed) and focus all into programming the universal rules and standards that will guide the gameplay. After that you'll have foundations to create a sequel or special version with all the gorgeous sprites you're using to sell the game today

Or, another idea, continue doing what we're doing lol
 
stuff
The sprites are one of the few things the game has going for it, and you're saying they should scrap them because that'll apparently save money/get pro programmers on board? I think they've made their bed already in that case, scrapping everything would be horribly counter-productive instead of just improving shit as they go.

And we've seen how MikeZ's attempts to give them advice went down.
 
I dont understand, what happened to the new thread?
 
I dont understand, what happened to the new thread?
Unintentional mod double dipping on the post movement, I'm trying to fix it now.

EDIT: It's done. Shit was majorly fucked due to miscommunication, and it's as fixed as it's gonna be. The main point was to have @Evil-Dog able to edit the OP, and that's where we're at. People's, "watched thread," markers are gonna be wrong, as this is technically a new thread, not the old new thread. Confused? Just leave it be.
 
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ver5b and other things:

-Pc completely froze after the end of the match and it tried returning to char select. Music played, but black screen remained constant.
-During start of rounds pc will consistently freeze up and shit frames. I have an i5, 8gigs RAM and a Radeon HD 6870.
-Characters clip off screen not only during Don's c.hp, but also during standing/crouching/knockdown/launched/juggle in the corner.
-Fury instant kill triggers after 2 hits when fury gauge is close to zero.
-Fury recovery animation triggers a second time if holding down when timer = zero and let go of direction input during recovery.
-Judging from the way things animate and current+previous feel of combos, it's hard to imagine the game as something with link-based combos instead of combo chains.
-Crumple from Tiamat Knuckle is too fast. It forces the player to use a crouching normal to continue the combo and the speed at which they crumple takes away from the effect of a powerblow.
-Crossup normals autocorrect sides and can be done EXTREMELY close to the ground. Vincent's j.hk can be done at a height where he should practically be entering landing frames and it will still come out and hit, as if there aren't any start up frames.
-Crossups don't pull the opponent with them on hit.
-Characters fall through the floor instead of landing during late air normals. Especially Don. Most notably his j.hk.
-Why does the start up menu utilize a control scheme separate from the rest of the game?
-It would be really nice to have a in-match pause menu to go back to character select and be able to quit the game without having to alt+f4.
-Meaty attacks (attacks thrown during an opponent's recovery from knockdown) completely whiff.
-Why do characters wallsplat after a launcher in the corner? It makes juggling timing inconsistent.
-The amount of pushback after successfully scoring a hit is excessive. By getting hit, the opponent is able to escape pressure without having to do anything. In a game of footsies, eating a HP would just be a "pushblock" at the cost of some health.
-If I hold down, press a button, and do a QCF+P off of the held down button, then a fireball won't come out unless if I were holding down-back. The game doesn't store inputs. Negative edging isn't allowed either.
-Don's hitboxes should fit tighter to his body. Concept might also need to be applied to Vincent's s.hp.


other things brought up by previous posts:
-Vincent's j.mk and j.hk are the same attack. Same with his c.lk and c.mk. Minor differences in animation/poses, but those are negligible and gameplay wise serve the same purpose and are hard to differentiate which one you got hit by.

-Custom controls allows you to map all inputs into one button, without an error msg or replacement of inputs.
-The motions for specials listed on the Kickstarter are inconsistent with the current build. Please release command lists with every new build. Also include the properties for every special.
-Allow input leniency for things like throws and mashing all four buttons for fury mode. It feels like all the buttons have to be hit on the same frame in order for a throw/fury mode to come out.
-Map the PPP/KKK buttons so that they are literally LP+MP+HP/LK+MK+HK. Pressing these two together should logically trigger fury mode.
-Change the input display to actually show punches and kicks instead of the button pressed. A/B/X/Y/RB/RT/LB/LT means nothing to us.
 
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God damn, the Skullgirls community is so cool they're helping other games' QA.
I concur, good stuff!

Also, new micro update v5c
http://www.evildogserver.com/share/BeastsFuryDemo_v5c_READ_RELEASE_NOTES.zip

Fixes:
- Fixed Don's upgraded heavy attacks being always activated.
- Tweaked Don's Thresher Trash vertical limit.
- Fixed fireball going backward when the opponent goes the other way during the animation.
- Tweaked block start anims.
- Reduced Don's adrenaline gains.
- Switched Don's C. HK back to a sweep type.
- Changed Don's C. MK to a +2 on hit and 0 on block
 
Is there anywhere I can find the inputs on some of the moves and other things for the demo?
 
Is there anywhere I can find the inputs on some of the moves and other things for the demo?
The beast's fury facebook page, maybe our kickstarter, not sure. Should probably include some kind of manual with the demo maybe.
 
Just wanted to pop my head in and say that it looks like it's coming together really smoothly.
 
Just wanted to pop my head in and say that it looks like it's coming together really smoothly.
Thank you good sir! Our play testers are pretty happy with the latest build, only gonna get better from here :)
 
Or, another idea, continue doing what we're doing lol

to each their own. I think you barely got the funding to fully make 2 characters, and if this "tech demo" doesn't pleases any big player in the market, that's all the backers will have to play around.

Actually, scratch my idea of employing an extra programmer and try an accountant.
 
to each their own. I think you barely got the funding to fully make 2 characters, and if this "tech demo" doesn't pleases any big player in the market, that's all the backers will have to play around.

Actually, scratch my idea of employing an extra programmer and try an accountant.

So your solution to having no fund is to scrap everything and redo it all and hire more people, that makes sense...a lot...doesn't seem like you know what you're talking about.
 
y'know... i think this game could benefit from simpler sprites. would shift the focus and the budget to the game itself, maybe allow another programmer in, etc.
Or, another idea, continue doing what we're doing lol
to each their own. I think you barely got the funding to fully make 2 characters, and if this "tech demo" doesn't pleases any big player in the market, that's all the backers will have to play around. Actually, scratch my idea of employing an extra programmer and try an accountant.
So your solution to having no fund is to scrap everything and redo it all and hire more people, that makes sense...a lot...doesn't seem like you know what you're talking about.
Ok, so that's gonna be the end of that tangent. @DukeMagus, your suggestions aren't very constructive, and things like, "hire an accountant," are pretty much just malicious baiting. Be better than that, please. Yes, Beast's Fury has pretty much completely exhausted any faith held in the project, BUT we left the hate train back in the old thread; keep this one clear of garbage.
 
So I haven't played the beta. What are the ups and downs of the game so far? What I saw looked interesting and I was hoping the game was going to turn out awesome.
 
By the way, I remembered you had replied to me on the previous thread.
Evil-Dog said:
Maybe explain more about how the game doesn't run well, in what aspect? We know the animations are loaded stuff on demand so there are freezes when you play until you've seen the different animation groups, but other than that?
I think if you can take some of Mike Z's pointers from earlier to help reduce overall memory consumption, and fix the load on demand approach to animations, it should help address performance issues that people like me are having with it. Currently the game takes up at least 2 gigs of RAM on my machine (I've seen it go up to 3gigs), and behaves like a "High Priority" program while it's opened. The game runs faster once the animations are loaded, but getting there is just a chore. Sometimes it takes almost 5 minutes to load at the VS screen, and that's also the point where the game has locked up on me a few times. It just feels very unstable compared to anything else I've played on my computer, so I gotta believe it's related to how the game currently handles its assets.

Anyway, hopefully you can make some progress in optimizing the game. I'll give the demos another try later on to see if I notice any improvements. Glad you're getting useful feedback for the current builds though.
 
What are the ups and downs of the game so far?
Pros: Devs are open feedback
Cons: it's work in progress and heavily intensive on RAM.

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@Evil-Dog

  • windowed mode starts up in directly in the middle of my dual monitors instead of filling in the primary monitor
  • normalize the recovery frames of Vincent's fireball. the weaker versions shouldn't have less recovery than the HP version.
Repeated L fireballs still infinitely combo in corner. Even if I drop the combo, fireball pressure is too strong
  • takes over 3 minutes to load match
  • consistent shitting of frames from first movements
  • consistent shitting of frames and sound from first hit
  • lock the frame rate at 60fps. My pc is erratically going from 300-900
  • s.lp and s.mp have the same range and are essentially the same attack. One is just slower, animated differently, and has follow ups.
  • s.mp and s.hp are both straight punches from the same arm. Looks awkward comboing one after the next
  • Is the core gameplay focused on spacing and footsies, resets, combos, or okizeme? Judging from the incorporation of launchers, Vincent's ability to cancel specials into other specials, and the requirement to trigger instant kill is a specific number of hits in a combo, I'd say the game wants to be combo driven, but the emphasis on links and arbitrarily limiting the juggles is counter-intuitive.
  • Your combos are already links from weak to heavy. Can link LP MP HP xx special. These combos would feel more fun as chains.
  • Hitspark off Vincent's c.hp is at the legs instead of the stomach
  • Hitstop on Vincent's c.hp freezes a smear frame
  • Can you show what the frame data is?
  • Why did you guys already acquire GGPO when your game isn't even beta?
  • Make a clear visual for EX specials. The dragon that appears in every leviathan kick is used in EX Tiamat Knuckle, but nothing is used in EX fireball. Temp solution: take out the dragon effect from regular leviathan kick, use the effect on EX fireball. Add opacity so you can see the character and which move he's going to do. Are you really going to make the animators animate a different special effect for each character's EX special instead of something simpler, more cost effective, and universal as making the character flash yellow or something? Also make a sound cue cuz why not.
  • Zero incentive to use fury mode as Vincent
    • Taking off the meter limiter for canceling specials doesn't mean much if he only has a tatsu that always ends in a knockdown, a rush punch that can only crumple once per combo, and a fireball that can only combo further if cancelled into another special.
    • Vincent's loss of special moves after fury is too much of a punishment. It just translates into being reduced to a generic character without any reversals, tools, combos or options. He loses everything that makes the character unique. If Ryu didn't have fireballs, a dp, and a tatsu no one would remember him or use him. It also doesn't match up with the level of punishment Don suffers.
  • Instead of the instant kill being a motion input, you restrict it to only trigger when the timer=0 and the opponent is hit x amount of times. This means that after activation, you have to keep a combo going for about 11 seconds and win. Drop the combo or end it early, and the opponent just has to run away for a few seconds and wait till you reach the recovery animation and you die cuz they get a free combo and your character suffers a heavy penalty.
  • The music doesn't loop very well. There's a distinct beginning and end of the track for the cherry blossom stage.
  • The kickstarter claims that this is supposed to be a fast paced fighting game, but it feels pretty normal and kinda like SF4 without uppercuts. What are you planning to do in order to make it feel fast paced?
  • EDIT: what makes sure that the IK will always hit during an air combo/juggle? If it's not something that you combo into but rather a combo goal that you're going for, how can you animate it so that when it triggers it logically leads into the cinematic from any situation? Currently if timer=0 after a juggle like launcher, c.hp xx fireball, the instant kill doesn't trigger.

The game overall isn't feeling fun. Right now it's giving confused signals on what type of fighting game it wants to be and a lack of vision in the gameplay. Like what would the ideal percentage of damage for a max damage combo? And having a build that takes forever to load and run smoothly is deterring.
 
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It's kinda annoying to download one version only to read down and see an updated version XD Is there a universal update thing in the demo? If not, I highly suggest figuring that out, if possible.
 
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It's kinda annoying to download one version only to read down and see an updated version XD Is there a universal update thing in the demo? If not, I highly suggest figuring that out, if possible.
Yeah I'll probably integrate a patcher into the game soon so that won't be an issue for too long.

Devs are open feedback
Hey cool another super list :D Thanks, like I said last time, it's all going into my todo list and I'll let you know if I need clarification on some of those. Otherwise you'll see the points I addressed in the release notes of the next versions if you check those :)
Thanks.

I gotta believe it's related to how the game currently handles its assets.
Yeah that is surely correct, and Mike Z's points were good too and how he handled his assets is probably something similar to what I'll have to do because of the insane amount of sprites were have for each character, I'll be reading the litterature he sent. However, before I attempt a big overhaul of how I handle the sprites, I'll continue tweaking the gameplay and implement needed features like invincible frames, counter mechanics, etc and fix the actual animation preloading so that when you do get to play after the long loading, you're not freezing everytime a new animation plays. All in due time, I can't fix everything at once but the release notes show what we addressed with each update.
 
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I can't actually download Beast's Fury on my computer, but from a visual angle, I recommend adding something that prevents two people from picking the same, exact color when they have the exact same character. It would cause confusion between both players. Skullgirls itself does this extremely well, even if I don't get my favorite color :0)
 
Impressive dedication. It's always nice to see.
Anyway, I don't know if this has been pointe out yet or not, but Doc has a notable lack of shading compared to Vincent. It's probably due to incompleteness, right? Also, he always does the same long death scream upon defeat, even for just a round victory, yet he has a short defeat animation. Perhaps you're planning on having some more VA later, but currently it's a bit weird. Perhaps make defeats go in slight slow motion so it matches up a bit more? I dunno, just thoughts
 
I can't actually download Beast's Fury on my computer, but from a visual angle, I recommend adding something that prevents two people from picking the same, exact color when they have the exact same character. It would cause confusion between both players. Skullgirls itself does this extremely well, even if I don't get my favorite color :0)

well that would be a thing, but right now there is no other colours to pick from. so yeah.
 
Impressive dedication. It's always nice to see.
Thanks doing our best :)

has a notable lack of shading
You're correct, his shading layer is being finished by the animators, so it will be fully shaded in an upcoming version, not tomorrow's version but maybe the other. I believe they were almost done last time I got an update about it.

he always does the same long death scream upon defeat
Yeah haha that's annoying, 1) doesn't make sense and 2) always the same but yeah his voices are done, I just didn't take the time yet to put in the right voices. Still need to do a sound pass on the whole game for foley and voices. Based on his anim though, he's not gonna scream like that :)

two people from picking the same, exact color
Yup, color selection and distinction is on the list of things to do.
 
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I'll continue tweaking the gameplay and implement needed features like invincible frames, counter mechanics, etc a
What do you mean by counter mechanics? Like effects on counter hits or something completely different?
 
What do you mean by counter mechanics?
The counter is when you hit someone during his startup, and upon counter, we'll want a visual effect but more importantly, some attacks will do different things, like launch on counter or crumple on counter, just an example of gameplay mechanics I need to implement that are not there yet

Why does the start up menu utilize a control scheme separate from the rest of the game?
Can you clarify that? Cause it's using the same inputs, Player 1 and Player 2, keyboard and controller, with the added default "enter" key for convenience.
 
So counter hits. k. Please normalize the rules on counter hits so that they're consistent for all characters. Only specials should have special rules on effects on counter hit.

As for the other thing, scrolling up and down in the menu requires using the analogue instead of the d pad for which I mapped up/down/left/right to, which means that it ignores the custom controls.
 
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Only specials should have special rules on effects on counter hit.
Says who?

As for the other thing, scrolling up and down in the menu requires using the analogue instead of the d pad for which I mapped up/down/left/right to, which means that it ignores the custom controls.
That is peculiar, I will check that.

Also, for everyone, I just put version v6a on my server. Check the release notes for what's been fixed.
http://www.evildogserver.com/share/BeastsFuryDemo_v6a_READ_RELEASE_NOTES.zip
v6b and c and possibly d will certainly follow with more minor fixes before the next bigger update in v7a.
 
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It would be handy to read release notes without having to download->unpack the whole thing.

For example copypasting them in the thread along with the link and putting them in spoiler tags would be swell, ie:
### v6a ###

Known Issues:
- Performance issue when loading animations for the first time.
- Huge list of things :)

Fixes:
- Implemented pause menu using the start button and the M and Numpad9 keys for keyboard.
- Fixed the crouch interrupt when you fail the fury mode causing the animation to play twice.
- Fixed small teleports at the end of many animations
- Fixed hit boxes on Don's Sharknado
- Fixed grab and hurt boxes on Don's Thresher Trash
- Tweaked many other hit and hurt boxes on Don and Vincent.
- Tweak the crumple animations to allow a better combo opening.
- Raised the below-ground land height for late air attacks.
- Allow hits, moving and actions before the getting up animation is fully down for a more natural feel.
- Changed input display on the side to punches and kicks display, still some issues with that but it's a good start.
- Fixed interrupting the landing with jumping and walking.
- Tweaked stage reach and prevent fighters from clipping on the side.
- Sliding movement on grab-attacks like Don's Mako
- Tweaked the sweep launch values when hitting a mid air opponent.
- Fix some issues with grab positions.
- Fixed bug with using the right attack hit info on multihits attacks like Vincent's Leviathan Kick.
- Fixed projectiles still going during paused gameplay.
- Fixed jumping momentum after a midair attack hit.
- Fixed Don getting adrenaline meter from his specials, that's Vincent's thing.
- Increased Vincent's adrenaline gain.
- Fixed combo detection when getting a hit right after a block
- Consider the projectile inactive when its explosion is done, which prevents spamming projectiles.
- Tweaked sharknado's launch properties.
- Changed Vincent's fury mode so that specials are free along with free special to special canceling.
- Added camera shake to Vincent's heavy attacks
- Fixed the camera shake happening after the round restarts.
- Changed Don's death scream to something more fitting.
- Tweaked all the attack pushbacks to be less intense.
- Fixed Vincent's C. HP to not have the hitstop on the smear frame.
 
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