Beginner Questions Thread

[Dude]

Please check the stickied Beginner Resources thread (for character specific and general game guides) before asking your questions.

Link: http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/beginner-resources-thread.242/

We should probably have one of these again. Have a basic question about SG or fighting games in general? Ask here and hopefully someone will be able to help you out. I know I'll be checking this thread often, so ask away. Also, no judgements in this thread. Sometimes we can be a snarky bunch (this definitely includes me) but this is a safe place to ask whatever fighting game related question you feel like asking. Just be sure to do a quick search beforehand to prevent redundant questions from flooding the place. Have fun!

 

[xVirtualNinjax]

FIRST QUESTION: How should I go at learning harder combos? I've been trying to use an intermediate Valentine combo, but I have no idea how I should tackle it in the Training Room.

 

[Dude]

FIRST QUESTION: How should I go at learning harder combos? I've been trying to use an intermediate Valentine combo, but I have no idea how I should tackle it in the Training Room.

I've gotta run, but the quick answer is chunking. Treat it like you did phone numbers as a kid. So instead of trying to do the whole thing at once, learn part A, then learn part B, then stick part A and B together. I'd treat one 'part' as a single chain for the purposes of this. One other thing, it's useful to include the beginnings and ends of chunks in other chunks. So if part A ends with a launcher, part B should start with that launcher.

I can expand in this idea later tonight if you'd like, but hopefully this makes sense.

 

[Mwisk]

For any combos: Break them down before practicing them, from starters, to mid-sections, into combo enders.

Remember that you have a very powerful and open combo system in Skullgirls, you don't need to mimic every combo you see, you can actually add a lot of personal style and flair and be incredible effective.

Anyways, pick your combo (it's good to set a damage goal, for example, I personally consider a 5000 damage combo for 1 meter (same ratio) a good starting point in the beginning.

Set your training dummy to always tech-roll so you know you have a real combo, and so they can burst on the 1st hit so you know you're using the IPS (Infinite Prevention System) and Undizzy right.

Break your combo down, combos can be quite memory intense in the beginning, practice the start, the middle and ender separately, then try to put everything together.

 

[Fenreil]

The only options I have available to me, controller-wise, is my keyboard and a PS3 controller. Which of them would be better, in general?

I've tried them both, and I seem to have an easier time moving and attacking on the keyboard, but can't do the quarter-circle (and similar) stuff for shit. On the controller, I have the opposite problem. Is learning quarter-circle stuff really possible on a keyboard, or should I switch to the controller and learn to work with that?

I've never played fighting games (that weren't Smash Bros.) before and this is all so haaaaaaard.

 

[Candra Software]

I can do quarter-circle motions on keyboard just fine, but half-circles and especially tiger knees are different stories. I'm much more used to keyboard than a regular gamepad or "arcade stick" for two years.

 

[80% Lean]

Although that this game focuses mainly on chains and cancels, I heard linking still shows up. When you need to link do you get punished for trying to link the move too early like in Street Fighter 4, or can you just mash to try to consistently get it?

 

[Scarlet Scapegrace]

I'm a fighting game beginner as well, and this took me little while. Hope this helps:

The key verb of the quarter circle motion is 'to flow' from one direction to the next. Say you have your index and middle fingers hovering over the 'down' and 'right' key. Here are the steps you'd take:
1. Press the 'down' key
2. Without letting go of the 'down' key, simultaneously press the 'right' key
3. Release the 'down' key so that you are left holding the 'right' key

This motion should take place in less than a second. You'll also want to practice this in training mode while showing the 'stick inputs' on screen a few times. That way, you'll know when the move registers and how you pulled it off. Good Luck.

 

[Dude]

The only options I have available to me, controller-wise, is my keyboard and a PS3 controller. Which of them would be better, in general?

I've tried them both, and I seem to have an easier time moving and attacking on the keyboard, but can't do the quarter-circle (and similar) stuff for shit. On the controller, I have the opposite problem. Is learning quarter-circle stuff really possible on a keyboard, or should I switch to the controller and learn to work with that?

I've never played fighting games (that weren't Smash Bros.) before and this is all so haaaaaaard.

QCFs are absolutely possible on keyboard. There is nothing wrong with learning on keyboard, though you can't really bring a keyboard to a tourney. (I think it might be possible, but the keyboard needs to be modded).

One thing I'd strongly recommend is to not use the WASD layout for movement, but instead use SDF for left, down, and right, and use the spacebar for up. This makes 360s, super jumps, and tiger knees much easier, in addition to being the same layout as the Hit Box arcade stick.

 

[Dude]

Although that this game focuses mainly on chains and cancels, I heard linking still shows up. When you need to link do you get punished for trying to link the move too early like in Street Fighter 4, or can you just mash to try to consistently get it?

Most links aren't too tight in this game, so mashing them is a bit more successful, but you'll still want to really learn the actual link timing to be really consistent.

 

[80% Lean]

Most links aren't too tight in this game, so mashing them is a bit more successful, but you'll still want to really learn the actual link timing to be really consistent.

So it does punish you for pressing too early? Also links involve pretty much any two moves that don't chain or cancel into each other but still combo right?

 

[Dude]

More info on chunking/learning combos.

Chunking takes advantage of how we learn. IIRC the average human can recall about seven "things" at a given time. What's great though, is that "thing" is a really vague term. To explain this I'll use a general example of someone who cannot even do a basic chain in SG.

Let's say this person (we'll call him Noob) is trying to learn a LP LK MP MK HP HK chain. To learn this chain, Noob would want to 'chunk' it into three separate parts. LP LK MP, MP MK HP, and HP HK. After practicing these three separately, Noob would want to put them all together. Important: putting the three chunks together is NOT as easy as it might seem. Just like a kid might be able to recite two separate parts of a phone number, but fail to say the whole thing smoothly, so too will Noob fail to immediately put these three separate parts together. This is completely normal, and happens to everyone at some point (whether you're trying to put together two separate chains, two measures of music, or the aforementioned stings of numbers). This is the reason I suggest putting the final button of one 'part' as the beginning button of the next part. In a sense you're practicing the transition from part A to part B beforehand (just look at the three chunks Noob is learning: LP LK MP, MP MK HP, HP HK). In my experience this makes putting chunks together a bit easier.

Now, what's great is that after a bit your brain will start to treat the LP LK MP MK HP HK chain as a single thing, instead of three separate things. Let's call this chain A. Now all you have to do is learn chain B (let's assume for a second that the HK in chain A is a launcher. You'd want to start chain B with this launcher. Both because you need the launcher to start the air-chain, and because it will help later with the transition from A to B). After you learn A and B, you can learn C, and connect all three. What's really cool is that after enough repetition your brain will stop treating A B and C as separate, and will instead think of it as a single chunk. Do this with D, E, and F, and there will reach a point where combining A - F is as easy as connecting just two separate things, instead of 6. What's even cooler is that over time connecting two new things will become easier and easier.

Some tips, and summary: Don't get too frustrated when you find it hard to connect two things you have down pat (string A to string B in this case). this is NORMAL. If you can't connect string A to string B for the life of you, then just practice the transition, and don't worry about the beginning of A or the end of B. Once you have, say, the second half of A to the second half of B down, doing A - B in its entirety should be no problem.

You can never chunk too much. If you can't land a simple string for the life of you, just chunk it into three separate parts of 2-3 buttons each. Eventually you'll be able to learn new strings as easily as you can learn a new telephone number, and you'll be treating multiple strings as a single chunk.

 

[Dude]

So it does punish you for pressing too early? Also links involve pretty much any two moves that don't chain or cancel into each other but still combo right?

Not sure what you mean by punishing you. If you press it too early the move won't come out. If the opponent is mashing reversal and you try to link too early you'll be punished, so in that sense it punishes you.

You are correct about the definition of a link. It isn't a cancel, but it still combos.

 

[Fenreil]

QCFs are absolutely possible on keyboard. There is nothing wrong with learning on keyboard, though you can't really bring a keyboard to a tourney. (I think it might be possible, but the keyboard needs to be modded).

One thing I'd strongly recommend is to not use the WASD layout for movement, but instead use SDF for left, down, and right, and use the spacebar for up. This makes 360s, super jumps, and tiger knees much easier, in addition to being the same layout as the Hit Box arcade stick.

Hmm, so I would then rebind the attack keys to, say, the number pad? I suppose this could make sense. Hell, that might even get rid of the pain caused by the default setup.

I dunno, it might just be a practice thing for these motions. I can usually pull 'em off in practice, but I have a tendency to hit the attack keys before finishing the last step of the circle, and rarely pull them off in matches. This all takes a lot of getting used to.

 

[Dude]

Hmm, so I would then rebind the attack keys to, say, the number pad? I suppose this could make sense. Hell, that might even get rid of the pain caused by the default setup.

I dunno, it might just be a practice thing for these motions. I can usually pull 'em off in practice, but I have a tendency to hit the attack keys before finishing the last step of the circle, and rarely pull them off in matches. This all takes a lot of getting used to.

My personal setup is what I mentioned for directional inputs, and then UIO, JKL for LP MP HP, and LK MK HK. I use Y and H as my macro buttons, and I don't use the 'right stick assist' buttons; but if I did they'd be semicolon and P.

It's normal to have trouble pulling stuff off in matches at first. Just stick with it is the best advice I can give. Eventually your brain will calm down and you'll get them every time.

 

[evilben]

The only options I have available to me, controller-wise, is my keyboard and a PS3 controller. Which of them would be better, in general?

if you have a playstation pad i would recommend that. while you can totally play on a keyboard the pad will travel much better if you ever want to go play somewhere else (also it will transition to other fighting games easier)
if you have having issues with things like moving and attacking just keep playing and practice. i find i learn things like that best by actually playing other people, not in training mode.

 

[evilben]

FIRST QUESTION: How should I go at learning harder combos? I've been trying to use an intermediate Valentine combo, but I have no idea how I should tackle it in the Training Room.

if you are having issues getting the timing of a combo you see correct, try doing it at half speed. this game has a slow down option and it can be really useful. also take advantage of both the hit box displays and the hit stun bars in training mode.
other than that, chunk it! remember there is no hit stun deterioration in the game so if you are having a problem with a certain spot in the combo you are trying to do you can pick up from wherever and try that spot over and over again.

 

[evilben]

Although that this game focuses mainly on chains and cancels, I heard linking still shows up. When you need to link do you get punished for trying to link the move too early like in Street Fighter 4, or can you just mash to try to consistently get it?

there is no built in punishing mechanic but it also doesnt have the auto buffering that blazblue has. if you try to mash something you might miss the timing of it and get bopped by your opponent for it, though. remember, the game runs at 60 frames a second, how many times a second can you mash on the button? if your link window is 3 frames you probably wont get it out if you randomly mash for it, rather try to learn the timing for the link. use the hit stun bars in training mode to get an idea of how long you have to get it and go from there!

 

[evilben]

I dunno, it might just be a practice thing for these motions. I can usually pull 'em off in practice, but I have a tendency to hit the attack keys before finishing the last step of the circle, and rarely pull them off in matches. This all takes a lot of getting used to.

thing take time to get used to. execution really is a barrier for fighting games but if you can get past it you will open up a whole new horizon of fun stuff you can do. if you are having issues with getting moves out go into training mode and turn on the list input display option then try to do your special moves/super moves 10 times in a row on each side. if you can get 10 in a row you should be good!

 

[Captain Murasa]

I'm often told that I know how to block ,but sometimes I don't know how to block effectively. Basically holding back isn't enough at all; mixups often screw me up and then I get that touch of death that would be the end of me. :<

So how does one block effectively?

 

[The Techtician]

I'm often told that I know how to block ,but sometimes I don't know how to block effectively. Basically holding back isn't enough at all; mixups often screw me up and then I get that touch of death that would be the end of me. :<

So how does one block effectively?

Mix ups can be hard to defend against, especially for someone new. Blocking effectively, I would say, is a combination of keeping your cool and understanding your opponents character. You need to remain level headed and not freak out when your being bombarded with attacks. This helps to see overheads coming and see windows to escape. If you know what moves your opponent's character has, you'll be more able to see the windows to escape.

Best advice I would say is learning to always block low. Since overheads are easier to see, they have to jump or standing overheads have a long start up, they are easier to react against whereas blocking low attacks give you a small opportunity to react. Also, learn which attacks your character has that have invincible start ups. This way your protected just in case your timing is off when you try to counter.

And if you don't know what any of that means, please say so. I'll explain in more detail.

 

[Captain Murasa]

Good reply. I guess that means I should play around with some of the other characters more if I use a certain character exclusively? (In my case, I solo Double almost exclusively.)

I've known how to block low most of the time, but sometimes that odd crossup just ends up killing me. :<

 

[Frozen_Zade]

I can deal with Peacock with every character but Parasoul - so my question would be how is Parasoul supposed to deal with Peacock if she's alone? I can't out-zone her, and I feel way too slow to approach... (also; should I have asked this in Character Specific: Parasoul? Or is this basic enough to be "Beginner" for future reference?)

EDIT: -and as a second question: do the different characters have different Health values like in other fighters? It certainly feels to me like Peacock has less health than other characters in the same way Akuma has less health than other Street Fighters.

If that's the case; is there anywhere that has the characters' HP totals/ratios displayed? I tried two different wikis and couldn't find info on this.

 

[evilben]

I've known how to block low most of the time, but sometimes that odd crossup just ends up killing me. :<

it really comes down to knowing what your opponent's characters can do and what your oppenent is likely to do. there is no easy answer for this, but practice will help!

(also; should I have asked this in Character Specific: Parasoul? Or is this basic enough to be "Beginner" for future reference?)

i would ask this in parasoul's forum as well. i dont play parasoul and i dont feel confident enough to answer your question, sorry.

 

[Money]

Best advice I would say is learning to always block low. Since overheads are easier to see, they have to jump or standing overheads have a long start up, they are easier to react against whereas blocking low attacks give you a small opportunity to react. Also, learn which attacks your character has that have invincible start ups. This way your protected just in case your timing is off when you try to counter.

I would follow this up with "try to push block" as well. A really good player gave me this tip after he noticed I was blocking mix-ups but wasn't push-blocking... and then proceeded to go into a semi-infinite blockstring in which the only way out was to push-block the string to create some space so he would whiff.

 

[Nap1400]

EDIT: -and as a second question: do the different characters have different Health values like in other fighters? It certainly feels to me like Peacock has less health than other characters in the same way Akuma has less health than other Street Fighters.

If that's the case; is there anywhere that has the characters' HP totals/ratios displayed? I tried two different wikis and couldn't find info on this.

No one in Skullgirls has a different amount of health from the rest. The only factor for what your health comes to is the ratio you're playing at. (1v1, 1v2, 2v3, etc.) By default, everyone has 14300 health, but when ratios kick in that number and the damage value varies.

 

[DARKNESSxEAGLE]

I can deal with Peacock with every character but Parasoul - so my question would be how is Parasoul supposed to deal with Peacock if she's alone? I can't out-zone her, and I feel way too slow to approach... (also; should I have asked this in Character Specific: Parasoul? Or is this basic enough to be "Beginner" for future reference?)

Dunno Parasoul's move names, but when against a zoning Peacock your napalm shots and egret bike are useful. Technical use of the egret the blocks projectiles (charge back, forward, MK) is pretty advantageous and can be followed up with the sniper shot super (quarter circle forward, 2 punches), so if you're blocking an Argus Agony, charge during the laser and send him out in the transition between the laser and the barrage of bullets. I suggest setting this up in training mode for practise (that's what I did to learn to use Bella's Diamond Deflector against it).

If you do get a Peacock in a corner, they will either try to get out with Argus Agony, teleporting directly behind you or jumping. Using the Egret Bike and moving in for a j.HP seems like a pretty safe strategy when they have no meter, otherwise I suggest moving in with a couple of dashes and seeing if the teleport or use Argus Agony while you take a crouching block state (use the method in the previous paragraph to counter Argus Agony, teleport can be punished when it ends). If they don't teleport or use Argus Agony, jump in for a j.HP and move onto a combo or blockstring; anything to put pressure on or do damage will suffice.

When a Peacock is fleeing use LP or HP napalm shot.

I don't play Parasoul much though so the viability of this might not be as high as someone in the Parasoul thread in the character-specific section.

 

[MegaMix]

What ratio of training mode practice and online fights should I be shooting for if I want to be good?

 

[R4z0rSh4rp]

Im trying to main Valentine, are there any basic mix-ups or fancy bits and bobs she can do that im missing?

 

[Dude]

What ratio of training mode practice and online fights should I be shooting for if I want to be good?

If you have your basic execution and a basic BnB down I'd say spend the majority of your time playing real people. Training just isn't gonna teach you defense or the neutral game, which are the most important skills (IMO). Of course if you run into a specific setup you want to test, training mode is great, but real matches should be your main priority. Even if you're losing every time.

And if you are losing every time, don't worry. Play to learn. You should consider things like learning how to block a setup, or getting in a couple more hits than the last match, as wins in themself.

 

[The Techtician]

Im trying to main Valentine, are there any basic mix-ups or fancy bits and bobs she can do that im missing?

I'm not a super Valentine user but have learned her various times. There is a character specific section with more info on These forums if you want to talk more but here's a short explanation.

I use and see Valentine as a juggle character. She doesn't have an air knockdown but has a double jump and an upward dash. Juggling can be hard to master and Valentine specifically requires very long combos for high damage dealing attacks. Thus, try to learn combos that keep the opponent in hit stun but let you reach the ground to either jump again or do a ground chain.

 

[MegaMix]

If you have your basic execution and a basic BnB down I'd say spend the majority of your time playing real people. Training just isn't gonna teach you defense or the neutral game, which are the most important skills (IMO). Of course if you run into a specific setup you want to test, training mode is great, but real matches should be your main priority. Even if you're losing every time.

And if you are losing every time, don't worry. Play to learn. You should consider things like learning how to block a setup, or getting in a couple more hits than the last match, as wins in themself.

Thanks but what does BnB mean?

 

[shoryusatsu999]

Bread and Butter. Basically, a standard combo that can be used in most situations and has a decent payoff.

 

[evilben]

guys, if you have character specific question please ask them in the appropriate character forum.

thanks!

 

[gette]

i have some questions:

1-what's that "superblock"? like,you're taking a lot of hits then you press something and your character like break free from the combo plus hit your enemie?

2-how to you do that block-thing that pushes your enemie?

 

[DARKNESSxEAGLE]

i have some questions:

1-what's that "superblock"? like,you're taking a lot of hits then you press something and your character like break free from the combo plus hit your enemie?

2-how to you do that block-thing that pushes your enemie?

Superblock means you don't need to focus on blocking high or low, but it only works during pushblock. Use pushblock by pressing 2 punch buttons at the same time, multi-hit moves generally don't get pushed away unless timed correctly but PGBCs (not exactly a beginner mechanic, but check out evilben's thread in the beginner section as I wrote a bit about how this works) and super block will still work.

Read Buri's post for the actual answer to your question.

 

[Erreip199]

How relevant is frame data to a beginner, intermidiate player? and to properly punish is it required to consistently use your punish move on the exact first frame posible or is there a small buffer at the very end of block stun to do so?

 

[IsaVulpes]

It depends on what you want to do with the frame data - You shouldn't learn all the data of every character by heart, that's a waste of time.
But eg if you have an issue with defending against Painwheel, you can look at the Frame Data, see that [c.MK > s.HP] is not a true blockstring and add "Mash DP after he c.MKd") to your defensive tools.
Or if the opponents Filia keeps ending her blockstrings with c.MK and you think you can punish that as you have hit her after it sometimes, but aren't sure what you can use, you can open Frame Data, see that she's -7 on block and thus use something with 6f or less startup to hit her during the recovery.
Or you keep getting tagged by Parasoul j.LP and want to know whether you can bait that thing out so you can punish her for doing it at stupid times, and then see that it has 12 active frames.. and give up
Or if you want to figure out whether it's better to end your blockstrings with s.MK, c.HP or a Fireball, you can check the frame disadvantage on block on all of these.
Basically, it's useful as a supplementary tool that saves you time when figuring out stuff - at all levels.

There is a 3 or 4f (forgot) reversal window during which you can input moves and they will come out on the first possible frame upon leaving block-/hitstun. I'm actually not sure whether this window works for all moves or just specials. You can also always just use a faster move to make it easier (eg Filia's s.HP has 12f startup - if you instead punish the opponents move with an s.LP, you have a 7f bigger window to do so, as it only got 5f startup)

 

[DARKNESSxEAGLE]

Yeah Isa's right. You don't need to check out the frame data to get good at the game but it's a useful asset to check if you're struggling with something in particular.

 

[Buri]

i have some questions:

1-what's that "superblock"? like,you're taking a lot of hits then you press something and your character like break free from the combo plus hit your enemie?

2-how to you do that block-thing that pushes your enemie?

1 - I think you might actually be refering to IPS Burst/Undizzy Burst and that haven't been answered yet. There's a topic about Undizzy and (if someone ever manage to salvage it) IPS in the gameplay section for the full story. In short, if someone repeats a move in a combo or just uses too many moves, pink/green hitsparks start to appear when you are hit, then just press any button to "burst" and send the enemy away.

2 - That is called Pushblock, just press 2 punch buttons while blocking.