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Beginner Questions Thread

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IsaVulpes said:
Or if the opponents Filia keeps ending her blockstrings with c.MK and you think you can punish that as you have hit her after it sometimes, but aren't sure what you can use, you can open Frame Data, see that she's -7 on block and thus use something with 6f or less startup to hit her during the recovery.

Just for clarity's sake, shouldn't he be looking for anything with 7 frames of startup? I'm pretty sure the convention is to include the first active frame as startup. So unless whoever gathered the SG frame data did it differently, startup can equal recovery.
 
Dude said:
Just for clarity's sake, shouldn't he be looking for anything with 7 frames of startup? I'm pretty sure the convention is to include the first active frame as startup. So unless whoever gathered the SG frame data did it differently, startup can equal recovery.
Pizzarino gathered the SG frame data and did it differently. 6f startup means 7f till it's active.
I'm also pretty sure this is not the convention, but just the SF4 way of doing things.
I prefer it the way SG does it.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Pizzarino gathered the SG frame data and did it differently. 6f startup means 7f till it's active.
I'm also pretty sure this is not the convention, but just the SF4 way of doing things.
I prefer it the way SG does it.

Tekken, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat/IGAU, and (I think) MvC3 include the first active too. (Not sure about others).
 
Isn't there some system called "Stunt Double" or somesuch? I don't believe it's in the tutorial but I'm sure I read about it and didn't grasp it at the time - now though I can't find where I saw it.

Something about when you're locking into blocking you can tag a character and they'll perform their assist before becoming the new point?
 
Frozen_Zade said:
Isn't there some system called "Stunt Double" or somesuch? I don't believe it's in the tutorial but I'm sure I read about it and didn't grasp it at the time - now though I can't find where I saw it.

Something about when you're locking into blocking you can tag a character and they'll perform their assist before becoming the new point?
Yeah, that's also known as an Alpha Counter, Crossover Counter, Guard Cancel, or something like that. Basically hold forward and press tag while still in blockstun and your teammate will come in and perform whatever move they have as an assist after some invulnerable startup, after which point they become your point character.

To be honest though, it's kinda useless if your opponent has meter since they can simply counter-super on reaction and kill the point of it.
 
Nap1400 said:
Yeah, that's also known as an Alpha Counter, Crossover Counter, Guard Cancel, or something like that. Basically hold forward and press tag while still in blockstun and your teammate will come in and perform whatever move they have as an assist after some invulnerable startup, after which point they become your point character.

To be honest though, it's kinda useless if your opponent has meter since they can simply counter-super on reaction and kill the point of it.

Thanks.

Yeah...part of the reason I let it pass over me was that when I first heard about it it seemed like it would be kind of...extremely punishable. I was hoping there was some application of it I was missing; but either way I figured I needed to know how to use it. Appreciated!
 
So how do you guys figure out some of the combos? I've been watching some streams and videos of tourney matches to get some ideas, but can't really figure it out. Been trying to main Valentine w/ Filia. I would go and set the speed to 50% to see if some stuff is possible but not sure if its feasible to use due to some of the dicey nature after the launcher and etc.

Also with Valentine, a BnB that I learnt would deal a lot of damage but lacks hit confirm, so I would add the s.LP(x3) -> s.MP -> s.MK in the front as a hit confirm, but as a result the combo gets damage scaled to hell, any tips on hit confirms and the likes?
 
Frozen_Zade said:
Thanks.
Yeah...part of the reason I let it pass over me was that when I first heard about it it seemed like it would be kind of...extremely punishable. I was hoping there was some application of it I was missing; but either way I figured I needed to know how to use it. Appreciated!
the usefulness of the alpha-counter really depends on what you have your assist set to, not all are created equal. also remember that regular cancelling rules apply when the alpha-countering character comes in. if you assist is set to a normal move you can cancel it into a special or super (and a special can get cancelled into a super). i most usually use this to alpha-counter into cerebella's lock 'n load and super cancel into ultimate show stopper.

mazei said:
So how do you guys figure out some of the combos? I've been watching some streams and videos of tourney matches to get some ideas, but can't really figure it out. Been trying to main Valentine w/ Filia. I would go and set the speed to 50% to see if some stuff is possible but not sure if its feasible to use due to some of the dicey nature after the launcher and etc.

Also with Valentine, a BnB that I learnt would deal a lot of damage but lacks hit confirm, so I would add the s.LP(x3) -> s.MP -> s.MK in the front as a hit confirm, but as a result the combo gets damage scaled to hell, any tips on hit confirms and the likes?

if you are new to the game game (and especially fighting games in general) i suggest just stealing other people's combos. nothing wrong with it. after you play the game for a while and start understanding what works with what you can start trying to explore making one up for yourself (but there is a good chance you will find that someone else has already come up with the optimal combo for you character, so steal it anyway!)

as far as your issue with damage scaling, remember that some damage is better than no damage and try not having to use as many jabs in the front of your combo. if you really want after starting that combo look for a reset to get the damage scaling back up.
 
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mazei said:
So how do you guys figure out some of the combos? I've been watching some streams and videos of tourney matches to get some ideas, but can't really figure it out. Been trying to main Valentine w/ Filia. I would go and set the speed to 50% to see if some stuff is possible but not sure if its feasible to use due to some of the dicey nature after the launcher and etc.

Also with Valentine, a BnB that I learnt would deal a lot of damage but lacks hit confirm, so I would add the s.LP(x3) -> s.MP -> s.MK in the front as a hit confirm, but as a result the combo gets damage scaled to hell, any tips on hit confirms and the likes?

When I'm trying to learn a new character, I learn their chains first. What ground normals cancel with other ground normals and what air normals cancel into other air normals. After that, I look for what I call "extenders" or "links." These are moves that let you combine two chains together. A basic link move is a launcher. Another is a air knockdown. Or even an air dash cancel.

With Valentine, she has a launcher but no air knockdown. Instead you have to look for moves that help keep the character in the air, or float to the ground, without breaking the combo. Filia, on the other hand, has both a launcher and air knockdown so you can take advantage of this. Remember, though, it's about chains and then about how to connect them.
 
evilben said:
the usefulness of the alpha-counter really depends on what you have your assist set to, not all are created equal. also remember that regular cancelling rules apply when the alpha-countering character comes in. if you assist is set to a normal move you can cancel it into a special or super (and a special can get cancelled into a super). i most usually use this to alpha-counter into cerebella's lock 'n load and super cancel into ultimate show stopper.

What are good alpha counters for parasoul and double?
 
Gamesandgoodies said:
What are good alpha counters for parasoul and double?

I almost never alpha counter (not for strategic reasons, but because I just don't ever think to), and you should probably bring character specific questions like this to the character sub-forums, but I'd say...

Parasoul = Napalm Pillar

Double = LK Hornet Bomber (though iirc there are two frames of vulnerability before it becomes invincible).
 
Dude said:
I almost never alpha counter (not for strategic reasons, but because I just don't ever think to), and you should probably bring character specific questions like this to the character sub-forums, but I'd say...

Parasoul = Napalm Pillar

Double = LK Hornet Bomber (though iirc there are two frames of vulnerability before it becomes invincible).
yea wasn't too sure since it's sort of a question about the alpha counters and their use but that was sort of answered by someone elses question. those seem to be the ideal assists in general anyways. thanks
 
Any tips on when to pushblock when you're being pressured or being owned in the middle of a combo? A lot of the time when I'm being beaten up midcombo I'm waiting for them to drop a combo but even if they drop it sometimes I'm not sure whether to pushblock or not. Any specific moves I should look to pushblock? I also hear it's best to pushblock towards the end of attacks, is this true?
 
80% Lean said:
Any tips on when to pushblock when you're being pressured or being owned in the middle of a combo? A lot of the time when I'm being beaten up midcombo I'm waiting for them to drop a combo but even if they drop it sometimes I'm not sure whether to pushblock or not. Any specific moves I should look to pushblock? I also hear it's best to pushblock towards the end of attacks, is this true?

As an add-on question; for a more novice player like me who gets completely bodied by professionals in Quick Match (and trolls in the Beginner lobbies), what is a smarter strategy when being pressured by vicious pokes/combo set-ups? Look for an opening to punish or pushblock?
 
80% Lean said:
Any tips on when to pushblock when you're being pressured or being owned in the middle of a combo? A lot of the time when I'm being beaten up midcombo I'm waiting for them to drop a combo but even if they drop it sometimes I'm not sure whether to pushblock or not. Any specific moves I should look to pushblock? I also hear it's best to pushblock towards the end of attacks, is this true?
The more you play against certain characters, the more you realize their blockstrings and when to pushblock. As you said though, you want to wait for near the end of their pressure to pushblock because most of the time if you pushblock to early their next attack will connect anyway. Although if you see your oppenent is ending their string with unsafe moves (unsafe specials, launchers, etc.), don't pushblock instead just wait for their move to end and punish. It's also good to note not to pushblock in the middle of multi-hitting moves because your pushblock won't do anything (Fillia's c.mk, Val's s.mp, cerecopter, etc.)
 
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I've got a quick question about Ms Fortune.

I've seen in some videos that Ms Fortune can do her rekka while headless, however I can't do it in game.

Was there a patch that changed this? I can do the rekka headon just fine.
 
Frozen_Zade said:
As an add-on question; for a more novice player like me who gets completely bodied by professionals in Quick Match (and trolls in the Beginner lobbies), what is a smarter strategy when being pressured by vicious pokes/combo set-ups? Look for an opening to punish or pushblock?
Blocking in SG is notably harder than attacking, trying to get some space so that you're off the defensive by using a pushblock. This is good against players that aren't particularly well versed in resets and mix-ups. Against better players (and most Painwheels) they will usually try to keep in a blockstring and slip in overheads every now and then to trip you up, for some characters such as Cerebella these can be countered (countering being more advantageous option for you), however for characters like Painwheel pushblocking as they attempt the mix-up will be the best option.

Against players with pokes like Filia's IAD j.HP/j.MP/j.HK it's best to learn to counter them as they are usually easy to turn into mix-ups and you don't want to get stuck blocking too much.

Put simply, your priority order should be:
Combo -> Mix-Up -> Pressure -> Counter -> Punish -> Dodge -> Block
Which of those options are available and when in different situations are things you'll learn for each match-up simply by playing more, if you want extra help then go into character specific threads for your characters. (iirc you play Parasoul, her Napalm Pillar is a good counter for most things as it's invulnerable, although it is easily punished on block or if you miss. Her j.HP will usually win most exchanges of blows including against Filia's j.HP.)
 
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Fatalis said:
I've got a quick question about Ms Fortune.

I've seen in some videos that Ms Fortune can do her rekka while headless, however I can't do it in game.

Was there a patch that changed this? I can do the rekka headon just fine.
She can only do single rekkas headless, as of Squigly Edition.
 
For everyone asking about pushblock stuff, check out the first post of the basic mechanics thread. There are sections on pushblocking and absolute guard that should help.
 
Fatalis said:
I've got a quick question about Ms Fortune.

I've seen in some videos that Ms Fortune can do her rekka while headless, however I can't do it in game.

Was there a patch that changed this? I can do the rekka headon just fine.

Like DDB said, there was a patch that changed it. One other thing that was added is that you can do her slide and overhead rekkas as standalone moves (QCF and QCB+K, respectively) when headless.
 
I know OTG means off the ground, but can anyone give me more detailed information about it specifically for Skullgirls? Apparently you get one OTG per combo or something like that?
 
So I actually do not understand the in-game controls at all.
The tutorial doesn't help me with specials, I don't know how to do them.
Can anybody tell me the keys I have to press in order to activate a special?
Not like in the tutorial though.
 
Gingersnsp said:
So I actually do not understand the in-game controls at all.
The tutorial doesn't help me with specials, I don't know how to do them.
Can anybody tell me the keys I have to press in order to activate a special?
Not like in the tutorial though.

depends on what kind of controller you are playing on. keyboard or gamepad?
all the specials in thisgame are either quarter circle towards(fireball), quarter circle away(reverse fireball), dragon punch, and a few charges.
so, if you are using a keyboard with wasd as your directional controls you would do a fireball as thus s > sd > d (and press your attack button at the same time as the d)
a reverse fireball is the same thing in the opposite direction so s > sa > a [+ attack button]
a dragonpunch is a bit odd and the hardest thing you will have to do execution wise in the game. it is towards > down > down-towards so d > s > sd [+attack]
the charges are just hold back then towards and attack so, A (count to 2) > d[+attack]. the time you need to charge in this game is actually very short, so once you get it down experiment with how long you actually need to hold back!

supers are the same but with two punches or two kicks instead of one! hope this helps!
(oh, also go in training mode and turn on display inputs, it will help you see what you are doing)
 
Dude said:
I almost never alpha counter (not for strategic reasons, but because I just don't ever think to), and you should probably bring character specific questions like this to the character sub-forums, but I'd say...

Parasoul = Napalm Pillar

Double = LK Hornet Bomber (though iirc there are two frames of vulnerability before it becomes invincible).

i believe that alpha counters get like 13 frames of invincibility so any more that comes out before then is completely invincible.
 
Alpha Counters are invincible for the entire time that they take to come in (unlike Assists, which have 2f vulnerability)
They do *not* have extra invincibility compared to the move itself, just no bonus vulnerability either.
 
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To be clear, I wasn't saying there were two frames of vulnerability on alphas, but on LK Bomber specifically. I am pretty sure I remember this coming up in SDE, but I checked the hitboxes in MDE, and they were either removed, or were never there.
 
Dude said:
QCFs are absolutely possible on keyboard. There is nothing wrong with learning on keyboard, though you can't really bring a keyboard to a tourney. (I think it might be possible, but the keyboard needs to be modded).
Don't need to mod a keyboard for a PC tournament =P

Captain Murasa said:
I'm often told that I know how to block ,but sometimes I don't know how to block effectively. Basically holding back isn't enough at all; mixups often screw me up and then I get that touch of death that would be the end of me. :<

So how does one block effectively?
Shabam: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=172074812

Dude said:
Just for clarity's sake, shouldn't he be looking for anything with 7 frames of startup? I'm pretty sure the convention is to include the first active frame as startup. So unless whoever gathered the SG frame data did it differently, startup can equal recovery.
IsaVulpes said:
Pizzarino gathered the SG frame data and did it differently. 6f startup means 7f till it's active.
I'm also pretty sure this is not the convention, but just the SF4 way of doing things.
I prefer it the way SG does it.
Dude said:
Tekken, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat/IGAU, and (I think) MvC3 include the first active too. (Not sure about others).

Pizzarino lists startup as "true startup" meaning if it says "6f startup" the 7th frame is active.
SG startup does NOT include the first active frame (and no frame data should).
 
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Dude said:
To be clear, I wasn't saying there were two frames of vulnerability on alphas, but on LK Bomber specifically. I am pretty sure I remember this coming up in SDE, but I checked the hitboxes in MDE, and they were either removed, or were never there.

you're thinking of the 2f vulnerability on all assists before the move comes out so DP assists like hornet bomber or napalm pillar are not fully invincible.
 
evilben said:
you're thinking of the 2f vulnerability on all assists before the move comes out so DP assists like hornet bomber or napalm pillar are not fully invincible.
No he's not

LK.Bomber has 2f vulnerable startup even if you do it as point char (or at least it had in SDE, didn't test in SQG)
E: Just tested, the 2f vuln startup is still there.
 
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evilben said:
you're thinking of the 2f vulnerability on all assists before the move comes out so DP assists like hornet bomber or napalm pillar are not fully invincible.
What Vulpes said.
 
well, you learn something every day!
 
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How much health does each character have? Will one combo always do the same amount of damage to any character (as long as the combo doesn't whiff, considers enemy size/weight/momentum, etc.)?
 
You can see the damage multiplier if you put the attack details on in training mode. It's different if the ratios you pick are different. You can also see the health by doing this as well.
 
80% Lean said:
How much health does each character have? Will one combo always do the same amount of damage to any character (as long as the combo doesn't whiff, considers enemy size/weight/momentum, etc.)?
Character health only depends on the amount of characters on a team. A solo Valentine, for example, doesn't have any more or less health than a solo Cerebella, but both of them would have less health if they were on a team together.
 
shoryusatsu999 said:
Character health only depends on the amount of characters on a team. A solo Valentine, for example, doesn't have any more or less health than a solo Cerebella, but both of them would have less health if they were on a team together.

Yeah I already understand that the amount of characters on your team affects your health, but I setting that aside I'm asking about individual characters themselves. Like does Filia have less health than Cerebella? What about Double or Peacock?
 
80% Lean said:
Yeah I already understand that the amount of characters on your team affects your health, but I setting that aside I'm asking about individual characters themselves. Like does Filia have less health than Cerebella? What about Double or Peacock?
All characters have the same amount of health given that they are the same ratio. This goes for damage multiplier as well.

Mirror ratios are always the same and have 1.00 damage modifier and 14300 health.
With the exception of mirror trios which have 14300 health per character but have a higher damage modifier of 1.30 to make trio mirrors not take forever.
 
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Sometimes, I play a fighting game (not just Skullgirls) and while I'm practicing a character's attacks, I can't discern much of a difference between two attacks. For example, Filia's s.LP and s.LK.

What's the strategic difference between Filia's light punch and her light kick? Why would you use one instead of the other? They seem to do similar damage, they have similar startup frames, they're active for a similar amount of time, they have similar recovery frames, they have similar hit advantage, they have similar block advantage, and they have similar reach.

Notice that I said similar, and not identical. But the differences between those two moves don't seem significant to me. Why would you use the LP rather than the LK? Or vice versa? It's something that I wonder about other fighting games, too. Like Ryu's LP and LK. Why use one over the other? Does it matter much?

Perhaps this is more of a game design question, but what is really the point of making a six-button fighting game and mapping really similar attacks to different buttons? In most fighting games, LP and LK often seem practically interchangeable, and same goes for MP and MK. Filia's s.HP is a launcher and her s.HK knocks the opponent back, so I see clear utility there...but I don't see much of a difference between the s.LP and the s.LK. It makes me wonder, do fighting games really need so many attacks? Shouldn't every attack be practical? Or perhaps every attack DOES have a specific practical use, and I'm just blind to it.

(P.S. - I'm not criticizing Skullgirls' design! This is just something that I wonder about fighting games in general.)
 
EvaXephon said:
Sometimes, I play a fighting game (not just Skullgirls) and while I'm practicing a character's attacks, I can't discern much of a difference between two attacks. For example, Filia's s.LP and s.LK.

What's the strategic difference between Filia's light punch and her light kick? Why would you use one instead of the other? They seem to do similar damage, they have similar startup frames, they're active for a similar amount of time, they have similar recovery frames, they have similar hit advantage, they have similar block advantage, and they have similar reach.

Notice that I said similar, and not identical. But the differences between those two moves don't seem significant to me. Why would you use the LP rather than the LK? Or vice versa? It's something that I wonder about other fighting games, too. Like Ryu's LP and LK. Why use one over the other? Does it matter much?

Perhaps this is more of a game design question, but what is really the point of making a six-button fighting game and mapping really similar attacks to different buttons? In most fighting games, LP and LK often seem practically interchangeable, and same goes for MP and MK. Filia's s.HP is a launcher and her s.HK knocks the opponent back, so I see clear utility there...but I don't see much of a difference between the s.LP and the s.LK. It makes me wonder, do fighting games really need so many attacks? Shouldn't every attack be practical? Or perhaps every attack DOES have a specific practical use, and I'm just blind to it.

(P.S. - I'm not criticizing Skullgirls' design! This is just something that I wonder about fighting games in general.)


As far as filias st.lk and st.lp there are huge differences iirc:

Lp recovers faster iirc
Lp chains into lk but lk doesn't chain into lp
Lp chains into itself, lk doesn't

Lk as a button accesses hairball
Lp as a button accesses ringlet and updo

As crouching moves lk hits low and lp does not. And the chaining rules still apply.

Lk probably does more damage, st.lk probably hits a bit higher up than st.lp and probably is a frame or 2 slower than st.lp and is probably more damage than st.lp

The differences are small but to a fighting game veteran they can be very important. Like st.lp instead of st.lk will make many links easier, but in certain combos where st.lp night wiff under the opponent, then the st.lk might hit... Etc etc etc
 
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