Big Band match up thread

[mpgame99]

Discuss Big Bands match ups here.

 

[DDB]

Big Band has a 0-10 matchup against everyone except Eliza Beowulf and Robo-Fortune because he's not done yet

 

[Icky]

Big Band has a 0-10 matchup against everyone except Eliza Beowulf and Robo-Fortune because he's not done yet

Even if in his unfinished state I still think the peacock matchup MIGHT be in his favor xD

 

[Hilary]

Even if in his unfinished state I still think the peacock matchup MIGHT be in his favor xD

1. play a character that takes up half a screen.

2. pick an assist that removes half of a screen.

3. fuck 1920's bitches.

 

[Sliced_Toast]

1. play a character that takes up half a screen.

2. pick an assist that removes half of a screen.

3. fuck 1920's bitches.

I like this strategy there hlvn, its sound. *pun intended*

 

[DDB]

After a little while of playing as and against him... I feel he loses to Peacock. hard. All Peacock's gotta do is turtle with Item Drop and Big Band can't do anything about it.

 

[Sliced_Toast]

After a little while of playing as and against him... I feel he loses to Peacock. hard. All Peacock's gotta do is turtle with Item Drop and Big Band can't do anything about it.

If you time a good heavy rush punch, or even the mallet smash just right, then you can close the gap, so don't loose hope, try to bait out the argus agony. I played against this match-up because I main peacock right now, so trust me, its devilish. However if you can get close in one good combo I can drop her life down to 15%.

 

[strangecity]

After a little while of playing as and against him... I feel he loses to Peacock. hard. All Peacock's gotta do is turtle with Item Drop and Big Band can't do anything about it.

Right now Big Band loses to Peacock, but don't worry, once parry and Mute Missiles come into play it should even the odds

 

[Vladislav_Paizis]

Mute Missiles? Please elaborate.

 

[Sliced_Toast]

Right now Big Band loses to Peacock, but don't worry, once parry and Mute Missiles come into play it should even the odds

I am not sure what those are, but it sounds awesome.

 

[strangecity]

Mute Missiles? Please elaborate.

When a character is hit by Mute Missiles, they will lose access to their special and super moves for a set amount of time (think Valentine's needle effects). At least that's what I read in the past. Hopefully that's till what's going to happen.

 

[AceZTeller]

When a character is hit by Mute Missiles, they will lose access to their special and super moves for a set amount of time (think Valentine's needle effects). At least that's what I read in the past. Hopefully that's till what's going to happen.

Whoa Whoa WHOA, where did that come from? I heard about the mute missles (heh) from the IGG, but I NEVER heard that effect. Please try and remember the source you got that from?

Oh, and to stay on topic, C. MK seems to do it's job decently against IAD Filias.

 

[strangecity]

Whoa Whoa WHOA, where did that come from? I heard about the mute missles (heh) from the IGG, but I NEVER heard that effect. Please try and remember the source you got that from?

Oh, and to stay on topic, C. MK seems to do it's job decently against IAD Filias.

sorry don't remember the source, Im not sure if it was in the early salty cupcake videos or in the old Skullheart forums, either way mute missiles ended up different from the one I discribed.

 

[Arcana]

like Naoto's SP bullets? wow that sounds awesome but i don't think that will happen since Big Band's Moveset is pretty much done

 

[Golbat]

Is it too early to say Big Band's presence in a match indirectly buffs Filia and Fortune by way of their multihit DP assists?

 

[mcpeanuts]

Is it too early to say Big Band's presence in a match indirectly buffs Filia and Fortune by way of their multihit DP assists?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

 

[RemiKz]

Filia's updo assist doesn't multihit, only when you are using her as a point character.

 

[Golbat]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Filia's updo assist doesn't multihit, only when you are using her as a point character.

Ah, thanks for the correction. Just been playing against a friends Solo Big Band and having trouble figuring out the matchup.

 

[Morrilou]

i'm sorry for this huge bump (being a moderator in another forum i understand this is annoying), but i think this thread could use more information.

As far as i have played, my hardest matchups are often Fukua and Ms. Fortune.
Valentine and Painwheel can be handled with anti-air tactics such as take the-a-train and beat extend, if bella glides she can be hit with beat extend and can be crossed up or punished if she rushes, peacock can be stopped with a well timed brass knuckles or giant step (must be done as soon as the first projectile is shot) and parasoul isn't a threat as long as she doesn't corner you.

Fighting fukua can be very difficult due to her zoning, grab resets and excessively long air strings.
Getting cross-trapped with Ms. Fortune attacking from both sides can make short work of big band as well. Big Band is weak handling pressure due to his enormous size, so what has worked for me so far is to punish predictable patterns on characters and wait for a proper moment to counter-attack, rather than taking an agressive offense.

I'd like to ellaborate more, but first i want to see if people will pay attention to this thread or if i get deservedly punished or not by the moderator team for bumping this.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Fukua is generally considered a bad matchup by most Big Band players. Once you get past the fireballs I think it's okay, and the fireballs aren't all that threatening since you can jump forward and parry them. Fukua's j.LP is the big thing to watch out for. If you get j.LK or j.HK on the screen early enough they'll beat Fukua j.LP clean, so if you space well it's a very winnable matchup. It helps that Fukua is really free on wakeup if you land any of your untechable knockdowns.

As far as Fortune goes idk I don't think headless pressure is all that scary. Just pushblock her. Don't use armor moves if the head is out cause omnomnom breaks armor. If you really want to not deal with it, you can c.HP the head which pops the head up it then cancel into L Brass to punch the head across the screen. c.MK and Beat Extend both hit behind Big Band if the head is behind you. Fiber I think is the real annoying thing in this matchup. You have to be careful with your pokes because you might risk running into a safe-on-whiff reversal that leads to full combos.

 

[bigbandpro69]

I'm writing a pretty big Big Band guide and I've reached the topic of matchups. So far I've covered Filia, Bella, Painwheel, Peacock and I've partially covered Parasoul. I'm a bit unsure of my matchup details so please let me know what you think.



vs. Filia

Spoiler

Filia's IAD's can be caught by s.LP, MK A-Train and LP/MP Beat Extend. Big Band can also control air space well with j.LK and Cymbal Clash. This dissuades Filia from rushing down too much, or she can be easily caught. On the flip side, one missed special from Big Band allows Filia to advance safely. The result can be an awkward footsie game on the ground. Filia's sweep is actually a slide, so it is quite good for beating Brass/A-Train as it moves her forward. Her ringlet spike fireball is also decent at closer range when Big Band is less likely to do brass. Her j.MP beats all Brass/A-Train/Giant Step when IAD'd at close range, making close range extra dangerous for Big Band.

Once Filia gets a hit, she can initiate extremely fast mixups using things like IAD delay crossup j.hk, jump instant j.LK j.HK overhead, c.LK low, ground throw, etc. She can also reset Big Band in the air, using air throw/burst bait/tech punish setups. Resetting Big Band in the air is preferable as he has no air reversals.

Big Band has to reset Filia carefully also, as she can use gregor on the air or the ground. This mostly depends on whether the opponent is willing to spend a meter to escape. Using grab/burst 50/50s to bait out the gregor input would work.

vs. Cerebella

Spoiler

This match requires a bit of care from the Big Band player to stay out of Cerebella's grab range as he has few options against her command grabs, MGR in particular. He has a very large physical box (blue box, shown in image) allowing him to be grabbed from lengthy distances. Cerebella can actually grab Big Band with MGR at point blank range, allowing her to do repeatedlow/throw resets in the corner.

He has limited options against grabs in general, but you cannot tech command grabs, removing another option from his already sparse amount of options: He can use HP Beat Extend's invulnerability or level 3 super's invulnerability to beat it or he can jump over it and punish with j.MK. Otherwise a lot of his moves will be beat by MGR, including SSJ ground super. Cerebella can also follow her grabs into a combo and a low/throw reset afterwards, making it a huge threat.

To avoid getting grabbed, you can use Brass Knuckles at a distance to keep her away, mixed with Emergency Brake to immediately close the gap, which surprises the opponent and lets you mix them up.

Cerebella's armoured moves like her armoured run and Lock and Load rush punch are easily breakable using c.HK sweep.

vs. Painwheel

Spoiler

MK/HK A-Train affects this matchup greatly. Painwheel can't space herself in the air as easily as MK/HK A-Train will catch her. Painwheel can't jump/fly at close/mid range without taking a big risk. She can start flying/jump safely at about fullscreen range and can then move in. j.MP will beat MK/HK A-Train as it will hit Big Band through armour and Painwheel can easily flight cancel to confirm off this. She can also use unfly and immediately block HK A-Train on reaction, then mix him up while he is at a disadvantage.

Painwheel's sweep has excellent range for beating Brass + A-Train and can also be charged to soak up the initial hit of Brass. In this aspect her hatred guard moves are great for soaking Big Band's slower moves for large amounts of counterhit damage.

Painwheel's Death Crawl level 1 ground super beats Big Band's SSJ level 1 ground super at close range, as it hits extremely fast. Her Buer Thresher air super will beat A-Train / Brass Knuckles also.

vs. Peacock

Spoiler

Delicate matchup for both players. Big Band has a hard time getting in after Peacock gets her projectile patterns going, especially when Peacock has an assist to cover extra space. However, Peacock can have trouble getting started because of Brass/A-Train. This means the matchup is primarily about spacing. Big Band wants to be in MP/HP Brass range or closer, and Peacock wants Big Band at the other end of the screen. On round start, Peacock cannot use the standard jump and dash away without risking getting caught by A-Train, which gives Big Band oki and puts Peacock at a heavy disadvantage. Peacock can just walk backwards on round start and avoid having to commit to any risky decisions.

MP/HP Brass is an excellent move vs. Peacock as it will armour through projectile patterns, move you forward and can be easily confirmed into super for extra damage. s.MK kara cancel should be used for extra range, albeit carefully, as it can be caught by a projectile before it is canceled. Peacock can use argus to beat Brass from a distance as it will rip through the armoured frames. She can also punish blocked MP/HP Brass with argus at any distance.

Peacock can use her item drops - namely MP version - to punish blocked Brass/whiffed A-Train and get a full combo from the right distance - level 2 item drop has loads of hitstun for confirming. Item drop should be prioritised over other projectiles as it can be held, defensively, to dissuade Big Band from throwing out Brass. Peacock can teleport to avoid Brass, but this can be heavily punished by SSJ ground super as it will autocorrect towards Peacock and hit her as she reappears.

Air parry can be used to approach Peacock in a safer way as it preserves air momentum whereas jumping + blocking projectiles will stop you in mid air.

vs. Parasoul

Spoiler

This matchup can mean trouble for Big Band. Parasoul has some excellent options against him, and forces Big Band to make risky guesses to shift the momentum.

Parasoul's j.LP is an excellent move in this matchup, as it can overhead Big Band from great range and can be buffered into j.HP for an easy confirm. On top of this, j.LP stays out for a while (12 active frames) meaning Parasoul doesn't have to particularly time the move to overhead.

Big Band has very few ways of countering this because it is so fast. MK A-Train can be used, but only really on prediction or reaction to dash jumps. MK A-Train is also already a risky move at close range, being punishable on whiff. He can parry Parasoul's j.LP buffer j.HP and cancel the 2nd parry into s.LP for a counterhit punish. Blocking j.LP buffer j.HP will leave Parasoul at a considerable frame disadvantage. Chicken blocking it is a good option as blocked j.HP will leave Parasoul at frame disadvantage.

Big Band should avoid letting Parasoul get in j.LP overhead range. Chicken He can use MP/HP Brass to easily hit her through Napalm Shot. (unfinished)

 

[Morrilou]

Thanks for the answers. I hope that guide gets completed, it would be a good asset for BB players.
Been fighting against fukua players lately, and while i can't nail yet the timing with j.HK, it does help a good deal. more often than not i can OTG the opponent and connect a combo string from there.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Thanks for the answers. I hope that guide gets completed, it would be a good asset for BB players.
Been fighting against fukua players lately, and while i can't nail yet the timing with j.HK, it does help a good deal. more often than not i can OTG the opponent and connect a combo string from there.

Just do j.HK super early. Once the active frames start, it's active until you hit the ground, so it's one of those things that you can't really do too early.

 

[bigbandpro69]

Thanks for the answers. I hope that guide gets completed, it would be a good asset for BB players.
Been fighting against fukua players lately, and while i can't nail yet the timing with j.HK, it does help a good deal. more often than not i can OTG the opponent and connect a combo string from there.

I'm working on it.

 

[fenster]

Am I the only one who thinks that Robo Fortune beats Big Band at current?

 

[mcpeanuts]

Am I the only one who thinks that Robo Fortune beats Big Band at current?

I dunno. I haven't played against much Robo at all. Why do you say this?

 

[Flotilla]

I'm reluctant to discuss matchups for an unfinished character.

And IMO Big Band's matchups against Parasoul and Fukua blow hard, but everyone here probably already knew that! I don't feel like any other matchup is good or bad enough to be worth mentioning indepth.

 

[mcpeanuts]

I don't think Parasoul or Fukua are that bad. I'd actually consider counter picking Parasoul with point Big Band if Peacock wasn't working out.

 

[Cadenza]

if it was retail then fukua will kill band. Beta....its still slightly in her favor. the solution was not about band ever getting buffs in his tools(?) but that fukua got gimped in hers that she has to think and play the guessing game as soon as she throws out a fireball. same with shadow, if band jump and fukua does L shadow you can buffer charge and try an a-train cause usually fukua's go "oh shit band is near me" and proceed to upback if you want to be safe and in close distance then use L brass. Fukua does have tools for this:

Her killer kung-fu wolf bitch chop(j.lp)
easy button(all of them *cough* j.hk)
not doing a thing and hoping for band to hang himself.
c.hp
s.mk
c.hk

TL;DR the main thing that hurt band was fukua's ability to gatling gun her fireballs. she can't do that anymore so she has to turtle up with both defense and fireball usage and makes band's job for getting in much more easier than you would believe. if he guesses right he deal big boi damage all across the board.

 

[fenster]

Oh, I forgot to respond to this.

I'm reluctant to discuss matchups for an unfinished character.

I don't get why not. As long as no one says "This is how Robo fortune will be forever more" in any definitive statement while both her and the game still have some change left in them, then nobody should jump to unreasonable conclusions. All that would be left is just talking about how to deal with character tools, which maybe could get discussions going? Maybe if more and more people thought a certain thing was tough to deal with, maybe that would prompt a balance change? (See Sekhmet becoming a 3 frame punish)

I only bring up some specific tools of hers that I don't think will change heavily. It would've been wrong to talk about the Air-Dash-Robo because it was known to us that her Air dash might not stay. I don't think that's the same case for Robo's projectile game, which in fact looks to be the opposite case where her zoning might even get stronger. In any case, if you don't feel like talking about robo....then don't post about it?

I dunno. I haven't played against much Robo at all. Why do you say this?

I guess I should've been more clear, but I posted this before she had air lasers, which was a long while ago. The primary reason then was basically that, besides normal suspect things that make the MU hard (comboable sweep to get through armor, access to good instant overheads that she normally can't do to others, small and hard to hit), her lasers seemed particularly hard to deal with. And it's not a case of "Well just parry it", from what I've tried. Granted, I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best at applying parry to get through zoning, but even I can air parry to keep momentum if the zoning pattern characters like Parasoul or Fukua are blatantly obvious. The difference is that Robo's ground M and H lasers have very different startup times for the same amount of space control, with a gap just close enough that trying to react to the parry timing of 1 means eating the other laser if the robo can just switch it up. And since BB can't easily jump over any laser, he has very limited choice in how to deal with it. When I tried playing against a Robo who could switch up zoning a little, as Big Band I felt that all I could do was literally just through out random rush punches and pray that she didn't jHK away or use H laser before me.

Since then, Air lasers are a thing and they suck to deal with even more, since it's far easier to vary up the timing of the air beams and unfortunately BB is a huge target against them. He can be sniped by Air L laser from most parts of the screen I feel, and sadly its really hard to react to. Add on to the fact that BB can't chase down robo that well (slow speed, rush punch requires charge, A train isn't high enough to catch most runaway jHKs, BB doesn't have great vertical coverage period against runaway jHK since Beat Extend isn't high enough, random rush punches have trouble landing when Robo is so tiny), Robo zoning felt a lot more like dealing with old Fukua more than the current fukua does.

I don't think Parasoul or Fukua are that bad. I'd actually consider counter picking Parasoul with point Big Band if Peacock wasn't working out.

I know we talked about parasoul, so I guess I can't convince you, but I disagree. While I do think MUs will evolve, especially BB MUs, I do think Parasoul is likely to stay bad for BB. Though I do think if all of us would nail down parrying jLP jHP consistently for punishes, it would certainly make the MU way harder for her. At that point, she won't have her go to low-risk-high-reward option, and be forced to other options, all of which BB can counterplay very well.

I do actually kind of agree about Fukua. The MU plays about the same as before, but at a slightly slower pace which gives BB just a tiny bit more of a chance to get in, which can make a world of difference. If there was any MU I think that could grow to eventually be BB favor as BB players get better, I think Fukua might be a good contender for that. One big area to get better at, past getting through zoning, is trying to AA effectively against jLP/jHK, which to be honest while I know I A train that a lot I've never really tried Beat Extend against those.

 

[Dhoppler]

Guys, the game is complete. Let's revive this discussion.

 

[Mike_Z]

Vs Robo you have several approach options:
- HK Train->EBrake
- s.MK~H Brass or H Train
- Jump toward, doublejump, L Cymbals
- Jump toward, if she does nothing j.HK -> ground tech

And since you can combo into sliding knockdown off anything, you can harass her on wakeup each time.
I don't think it's as bad as I initially thought it was. Still not great, and not FUN, but you can win. You work her to the corner and see what happens.

 

[CaioLugon]

Parrying H beam in the air ia also very much viable and gets you a lot of ground since you move forward as you parry it, if you're close enough you even get to punish it with j.lk!