Black Dahlia Alpha/Beta Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Cattfish]

This thread is to keep tech, questions, bugs, feedback, and miscellaneous discussion about Black Dahlia's ongoing gameplay development in one accessible location for HVS.

>>>>> This is NOT a thread to discuss balance changes or feedback for characters other than Black Dahlia. <<<<<​

Black Dahlia's Alpha release was announced for June 16th, 2022.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1537230115801018368

Brief FAQ time that will be updated with more info:

Q: Where do I find combos and resets?
A: Check the hashtag #SG_BD on Twitter! The community aims to upload tech under that label.

PenPen's starter Black Dahlia CMV!

Spoiler: Notations

0:00 Basic Starter, 5332 damage:
2LK 2MK 5HK 236HP
5MK 5HK
jMK jHP
5LK 5HK
jLP jMK jHP j236LP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HK

0:11jHK conversion, 5265 damage:
jHK j236LP KK jHP
2MP 5HK
jMK jHP
5LK 2MP 5HK
jLP jMK jHP j236LP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HK

0:22 Bulletless Combo
2LK 2MP 5HK
jMK jHP
2MP 5HK
jMP(2) jHP
microdash 5LK 5HK
jLP jMK
5LP 2MP 2HK 214K (sweep into perfect reload is -1 (!)

0:31 Throw combo, snapback conversion, 2993 damage ONLY WORKS AGAINST SOLOS/1 CHARACTER REMAINING
LPLK 236MPMK
2MP 5HK
jMK jHP
5LK 2MP 5HK
jLP jMK jHP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

0:41 Air Throw Combo, 3697 damage
jLPLK
dash 2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP KK jMK
5LK 5HK
jMP(2) jHP
2MP 5HK
jLP jMK jHK
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

0:54 Corner Combo, 5572 damage
2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
5MK 5HK 236HP
2MP 5HK 236HP
5LK 5HK
jMK jHP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

1:05 Double (heavies?) 5448 Combo,
2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
dash 5MK 5HK
jMK jHP j236HP
2MP 5HK
jLP jHP j236HP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

1:15 Double (heavies?) Corner Combo, 5496 damage
2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
2MP 5HK 236HP
5MK 5HK 236HP
5LK 5HK
jMK jHP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

1: 26 Double (heavies?) Corner Throw Combo, 3851 damage
LPLK 5LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
KK jMK jHP j236HP
5HK
jLP jHP j236HP
5MP 2HP 236LP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

Q: Where do I talk about PALETTES?
A: Not in this thread.

Q: When will the wiki be updated with Dahlia info?
A: Not until she's out of beta and fully released. There would be too many edits as she undergoes changes during Alpha/Beta.

[Placeholder for team position, composition, and assist questions. I know you're waiting to ask Frame 1 of her release]

[Placeholder for Grenade explanation.]

[Placeholder for Onslaught explanation.]

 

[rznant]

Starting off the thread by saying hey, she's finally here! I can't wait to hit people with this:

7 frames of startup, by the way! I hope this sticks.

It's too early to say anything about her outside of "wow, I can't wait for the rest of her kit to come in!" so I'm left to wonder: is Assault's behavior a fork of Robo's Homing Directory? Are the two other ammo types being randomized between the third and last slots placeholder or a glimpse into the future of her reloading mechanic? Does she play Halo? Is TK Order Up going to be faster than doing it grounded ala Robo's TK M Beam?

Too many questions to ask.

 

[Holy Goose]

I can't wait to hit people with this:

Best attack ever. Hooray for slapping your opponents!

The videos with the killer granny are multiplying. So nice to see.
Her animations are amazing.

 

[SonicFox]

I Think she should be able to do Assualt J.LK into J.HP

 

[LugusRori]

So, here is my feedback:

- She is really fun to play with, but hard to master her movements.

- I think her Order Up, S. MK/Stiletto Stab and dash on the ground should be a little faster.

- Her J. HK can only be used in specific moments, because most of the time I miss the attack on the opponent because they are closer to Dahlia, out of the saw's hitbox. To me, the saw should hit opponents that are close to Dahlia. Or maybe the damage could be lower when the opponent is closer to the saw, than when they are hit on the current saw's reach.

- Her S. MK could be a follow up attack, like J. MK can be a follow up attack to J. LP or J. LK.

- It's a little frustrating that the flame rounds from her gun only does damage when it hits the ground. Multiples times, I'm doing a combo, and when I shoot, it's a flame round that pass right through the enemy, interrupting the combo, giving the opponent a chance to hit me, and only hitting them when it hits the ground. I think the flame round could hit the opponent not only when it hits the ground. Maybe it could do less damage when it doesn't hit the ground, but still hit the opponent in the air, for example.

Some bugs that i Noticed.

- When Valentine grabs Dahlia, her sprite glitches a little. The normal would be for her to rotate a little, but Dahlia's sprite appears out of the area she was.

- When Robo Fortune grabs Dahlia, her sprite is inverted, when she should be horizontal and with her head to the left, it's to the right. (It's kinda hard to explain, only seeing to understand.)

- When Dahlia is on the ground, and about to get up, there is a visual glitch near her back. Face down to be exactly.

Suggestion for future attacks (majority of then are based around the conecept art)

- She could use perfume grenades that, when it hits the opponent or the ground, the area around the hit location would create a poisonous smokescreen that would slowly drain the opponent's health while they were in it, or until the smoke dissipated, functioning as a tear gas. It could vary it's range.

- Dahlia could use her gun as a flamethrower, as a uppercut where it would deal high damage at close range, but deal little damage if the opponent is far away, but still in the hit area. Or she could use like Big Band's Brass Knuckles.

- It would be cool if she could change her gun into a chainsaw for a Special or Super/Blockbuster. As a Super, Dahlia could use to inflict a lot of hits while doing a fancy dance.

sorry if this comment has broken english, it's because english isn't my primary language. But I hope this comment help.

 

[Shnarfl]

My comment is that if perfect reload is a straight upgrade over a basic reload, just with an execution barrier, you might as well remove the barrier and make every reload perfect. Why make it so players with worse execution have a slightly slower reload, when the real barrier should be managing their ammo correctly?

 

[Nuuance]

She’s exciting & has alotta potential. things Im sure would feel great next round for style points: holding shots before shooting, feints, and Onslaught-canceling normals & shots

Some fun mind games making people block for the assumed shot, then jumping in. Right now you cant mix it up how you like & it feels stiff. Or just chill in the air floating aiming down the barrel just waiting for them to do something. Obviously there's the chance of a counterhit before you get the shot off or cancel but thats the fun part.

The moment in the trailer faking the shot and grabbing was just dope & stuck with me. having an actual shot feint like qcf+p~k (plink k to cancel after immediately or when you're ready). faster recovery like most feints. that's the only thing feeling like it's missing at the moment. derinitely wanna play mind games and being a shifty tricksy character, it just feels right to hold the shotty up & be like sike. A white flag or something would be a funny touch, just take peacocks flag but erase the bang...or simply using a small effect we already have like the smoke & gun click sound effect.

onslaught Canceling normals & air strings just seems natural to me. I’d almost say this is more important. Feels weird to have to wait after recovery. Not very mixy...follows combo stages like normal, fast j.lk but no instant overhead & seeing it as a command movement special, that execution would be fun stringing together. apart from fortune, there aren’t really other characters you can freely dance around with in a word. I think that’s why fiber upper feels so good. This is as satisfying so I’d like to use it like a command dash cancel.for shots, I’d say cancellable on hit & block

Secondhand Edit: Main qualm is how tag-in is effectively negative/can’t combo into on hit. With her slow moves you can’t even tick grab because they can DP. not feeling tag-in as only big criticism rn because she’s now at an objective disadvantage. Even out of stagger for closest hit, 5lp doesn’t help being 7f. You’re gonna lose unless you block. don’t mind if it does a pink/blue knockdown for tag-in only if it’s absolutely against her design to combo out, but she needs either some space or be positive enough she’s not at a bigger disadvantage. especially on hit.

lastly j.mk, can we get more active frames on that à la Eliza's j.mk — (sidenote nice touch shooting off walls, can they have a bit more rebound? Mostly hit in the same place)

 

[Chrono_Tata]

My comment is that if perfect reload is a straight upgrade over a basic reload, just with an execution barrier, you might as well remove the barrier and make every reload perfect. Why make it so players with worse execution have a slightly slower reload, when the real barrier should be managing their ammo correctly?

I agree in principle (btw devs pls remove stagger shake), but I think since reload is still in an early stage I'm hoping there will be a risk-reward factor to using active reload.

For example, perhaps active reload could significantly reduce reload recovery time, but only loads, say, 4 bullets instead of the usual 6. That would make it more of a decision rather than being purely an execution check. Although if that were the case I hope they make the timing window a bit more lenient too.

 

[Ranger]

Her framedata feels very strict atm, limiting her combo routes severely. I know there's more stuff coming but it really sucks. Maybe ease on hitstun a little?

 

[ProfNJ]

(I'm jotting this out at work, I apologize if none of this is readable)

Dahlia is really, really fun so far and getting a character to feel this complete with so little is quite an accomplishment. There are some hangups that I have about her though, but they could potentially go away with some moveset additions.

The main thing I would like to hear from the dev team is a little more about the direction they want Dahlia to skew towards. Obviously it's very early in her concept, but some more insight into how you guys see her playstyle fleshing out would be very helpful in contextualizing her current state and give better feedback from now until release.

Some more specific thoughts:

- I am a huge fan of active reload in its current state and being able to just frame it for better advantage, though I sort of wish the payoff for hitting the just frame was a bit stronger. I believe the total duration for a perfect reload is 62 frames give or take, which is slower than Robo cHK even with the extra effort. Shaving off a little more recovery could be nice, as it would make sweep into reload as well as shooting to cover reload a little safer.

- While Dahlia feels very strong in the air, as of right now her ground dash feels very unfun. The most recent update helped a little in making dashing normals feel natural, but still the startup on Dahlia's dash just makes her feel uncomfortable. That being said, more moves that allow Dahlia to stay airborne would probably assuage some concerns here, as even with just her suite of air normals, stalling with jLK and gunshot, and moving with air Onslaught, it's a blast to be off the ground.

- I'm struggling to find ways to justify her frame data, especially on hit. Her single plus on block move is 5LP which whiffs on crouching opponents, and most of her grounded normals being minus on hit makes using tools like 2LP/5LK/2MP very rough, especially in resets. As for jLK, I can understand that the hitstun is very low to make using jLK in mixups require setup/assists to confirm, but -6 on hit is also making it awkward as a filler normal in combos. All of these are really fun tools that feel clunky due to overly conservative frame data. Please consider making her ground light normals plus on hit and block, and also potentially testing some more hitstun on jLK. Would it being even +1 on hit be enough for unwanted IOH confirms?

- I'd also want to look at gunshot or atleast buckshot being + on block. Considering that gunshot a resource I need to upkeep, and I (currently) have to roll for buckshot, the shotgun being plus would compliment its niche as a close range offensive tool versus the defensive capability of the fire grenade.

- 2MK is quite an interesting tool to play with. It feels strong as both a zoning/setup compliment to her gun and as an evasive maneuver on the ground, though it slots into her chains at a rather odd point. I'd like to test maybe switching 2MK and 2HK to allow more freedom in stringing into the trap without giving her LMMH chaining, as the current chain system seems deliberately built around 5MK working as it does. Alternatively, I'd like to test being able to special cancel the very end of 2MK (when she hits the ground after the hop). It could lead to pretty interesting zoning/setup scenarios.

All things considered, Dahlia so far is conceptually all I could have asked for so far, and I can't wait to see more of her. Kudos to the team!

 

[BellaFeng4Eternity]

I think if would be nice if Dahlia can cancel her command jump into her normals or at least can carry dash momentum. That's the only QoL change I would like to see for the character while she's in development.

 

[Nuuance]

I think if would be nice if Dahlia can cancel her command jump into her normals or at least can carry dash momentum. That's the only QoL change I would like to see for the character while she's in development.

Like soon as you land onslaught (with a slide), hitting the normal? Or like plink cancelling so you never leave the ground but scoot forward? Dont quite understand, Dash cancelling into normals might solve that. Either way I wouldnt mind if we can decide which onslaught we use depending on the combination of KK buttons rather than always being automatically decided. Guessing most noticed when close you do a short hop, far does a big one. Letting players decide would be really cool.

Also weird thing i noticed...most likely because lack of tools but something funny i noticed, ironically from actual midrange...she cant convert. Close, she can with 5lp (if not crouching/IPS allows) & from quite afar, she can onslaught + dash...but there's this weird middle ground where she just can't. Another reason i think shots & normals --> onslaught cancel should just be standard as a part of her character mechanic. smooth movement lesgo

 

[BellaFeng4Eternity]

Like soon as you land onslaught (with a slide), hitting the normal? Or like plink cancelling so you never leave the ground but scoot forward? Dont quite understand, Dash cancelling into normals might solve that. Either way I wouldnt mind if we can decide which onslaught we use depending on the combination of KK buttons rather than always being automatically decided. Guessing most noticed when close you do a short hop, far does a big one. Letting players decide would be really cool.

Also weird thing i noticed...most likely because lack of tools but something funny i noticed, ironically from actual midrange...she cant convert. Close, she can with 5lp (if not crouching/IPS allows) & from quite afar, she can onslaught + dash...but there's this weird middle ground where she just can't. Another reason i think shots & normals --> onslaught cancel should just be standard as a part of her character mechanic. smooth movement lesgo

I'm also down for these changes to Dahlia as well. Hopefully they'll be good enough to help her out a bit in the current Season 1 meta despite her in a currently unfinished state right now.

 

[SvenZ]

Idk how much the Steamboards are being checked, so I'll post here as well:


[1]. Allow 2MK to cancel into Order Up.
[2]. Radically decrease 2MK's active frames once a trap is out.
[3]. Increase damage from 400 -> 750
- Currently this move is pretty underwhelming and doesn't feel practical in most situations. Allowing it to cancel into Order Up would make it slightly safer and provide another combo route. Reducing the active frames when a trap is out on the other hand will allow the move to be used as a pseudo backdash. Damage wise it's also pretty weak, considering its downsides, so any buff to promote using it more would be appreciated.

[4]. Make J.LK push Dhalia away from her opponent on hit(block included). The additional air time and distance will allow her to properly follow it up with J.MP into J.HK. Currently this combo route is only possible on neutral jump vs tall characters. The small adjustment should make it viable also as a jump in and vs more characters.

[5]. Prolong Air HK's hurtbox frames (when pulling the saw back). Right now it doesn't fully match her animation, and using the move at close range means it won't even connect. Given its startup and recovery, it will still be punishable as before, but it will at least be more consistent and viable to use at closer range. Combined with suggestion 4, it will open up additional combo routes.

[6]. Rush Order possible changes. Just throwing ideas, these are all proof of concept:

A) Pressing P will determine the second bullet you load in.
- LP will load regular ammo
- MP will load shotgun pellet
- HP will load flameshot

B) Pressing P will immediately cancel the move into Order Up.

C) Rush Order hitbox increased and timing altered. You will now have to time the reload sooner, which will subsequently reload your weapon faster. The increased hitbox and faster startup will also allow you to use it in launcher combos or possibly as an anti air vs certain attacks. It will be a nice risk vs reward system, because there are definitely safer options to follow up your launcher. Missing it will leave you wide open for a punish

[7]. Blockbuster Suggestion: 214 + KK
Anti air super, which also reloads your weapon. Ammo type refill depends on the combination of kick buttons. Costs 2 bars, should be chainable after a 5HK and provide similar knockback to a H Order Up

Like soon as you land onslaught (with a slide), hitting the normal? Or like plink cancelling so you never leave the ground but scoot forward? Dont quite understand, Dash cancelling into normals might solve that. Either way I wouldnt mind if we can decide which onslaught we use depending on the combination of KK buttons rather than always being automatically decided. Guessing most noticed when close you do a short hop, far does a big one. Letting players decide would be really cool.

Also weird thing i noticed...most likely because lack of tools but something funny i noticed, ironically from actual midrange...she cant convert. Close, she can with 5lp (if not crouching/IPS allows) & from quite afar, she can onslaught + dash...but there's this weird middle ground where she just can't. Another reason i think shots & normals --> onslaught cancel should just be standard as a part of her character mechanic. smooth movement lesgo

The moment in the trailer faking the shot and grabbing was just dope & stuck with me. having an actual shot feint like qcf+p~k (plink k to cancel after immediately or when you're ready). faster recovery like most feints. that's the only thing feeling like it's missing at the moment

My support for this as well

 

[Turvon]

I think Black Dahlia with a double jump would be pretty neat

 

[Corridor89]

Barrel is amazing

 

[Calexe]

Black Dahlia wishlist:

Spoiler: text

- sMP with more lower hitboxes
- Buffer to jHK > jLP
- L Shot > sLK/cLK link
- Less hitstop on her sMP
- More damage to her cMK OR forced scaling removed
- Manual backdash > Onslaught having less lockout (to make 44 > 66 just like Valentine)

Way too chaotic but would be cool:

- Homing proprieties on her taunt (if she get some way of hard knockdown this would be SO DAMN COOL)
- +1/2 active frames on her cMP and better hitbox for AA
- Hitbox increase behind in jMK for better crossup
- Barrel hit mini-game for the opponent
- cMK able to stop armor

I'm loving how Black Dahlia is shaping to, I know it's too early to give feedback about X or Y but:

- I think her damage is just way too low, I know she'll get more super and specials but 6k for optimized routes is just depressing, I'm not asking for Annie/Umbrella damage but at least 7k (wich is the average damage) would be cool.

- The more I play with her, the more I think she needs an indicator with her 3 next shots - I don't know but I think Umbrella a special bar was hard to create (since every patch on her beta/alpha had a 'small fix' or 'bug fix'), since it's hard to keep tracking with 3 bullets, I can't imagine how hard it would be with 6, please, consider giving her a indicator.

- I wonder if she'll get an colorblind option, her 3 bullets right now can be pretty much confusing for people with red-green colorblind.

Again, I'm loving Black Dahlia and I'll look forward for her new stuff, thank you HVS/FC

 

[SvenZ]

Black Dahlia wishlist:

- sMP with more lower hitboxes
- More damage to her cMK OR forced scaling removed
- Manual backdash > Onslaught having less lockout (to make 44 > 66 just like Valentine)
- Homing proprieties on her taunt (if she get some way of hard knockdown this would be SO DAMN COOL)
- +1/2 active frames on her cMP and better hitbox for AA
- cMK able to stop armor

These all sound great. 2MK stopping armor moves especially is smth I'd really love, but it might be too good

 

[Holy Goose]

The Barrel Blockbuster is something awesome.
Even if it might ruin Umbrella's tennis game.

 

[Nuuance]

definitely coming along. very cool job on the super & team integration. super happy to see that. glad some of the frame data's been improved as well. Great job. Here's a bit of what sticks out to me atm

Still feel like she's a touch conservative seeing that on hit, tag-in on a fully staggered character puts her even (which for her frame data is straight negative). This is a point blank tag-in, further away it's fine but ironically a hit head-on is unsafe on-hit still. additionally only 5lp converts after a shot still, will 5/2.lk soon? Lights being slower totally get so increasing stun of shots i think fix that. j.mk would appreciate being more active as its clear thats gonna be a big goto. Looking forward to individually reloading the 6 ammo types (when the rest drop) vs 3rd & 6th slot; with how volatile neutral can be higher up you get, trying to save/plan is gonna be tough. I love the idea of an actual 'random variety pack' reload for fun that's fastest but completely randomized, but personally not the biggest fan of the other reloads right now.

This is a wild idea but it'd be cool if you do reload command qcb & you can press the combination of ammo you want & it reloads literally as fast as you press buttons. So for example qcb+lp,lp,lp,hp,mp,hp. She seems like an execution oriented character so I absolutely wouldnt mind that. If thats pretty much what active reload is, my bad. still new to reloading mechanics.

besides that im sure damage will balance itself as it always does so im gonna wait on that, but the foremost thing on my mind is cancelling normals & shots, air or ground into onslaught. I really wanna try that. Something you cant just spam since she cant immediately block, but she'll have a freedom that onslaught seems to encourage. Combos would be incredibly fun executionwise too. I guess lastly, is she getting an onslaught air backdash...? would be nice.

That's all for now. I'm curious how she'll shape up for future patches & I hope new things keep getting tried

 

[SonicFox]

I think she should have an air command input that functions similar to Parasoul’s jump 4LK

It feels weird to see her committing to air assault when it’s easy for opponents to walk under her or dash under her and renders her pretty helpless. It’s like she has a unist assault without any of the absurd unist jump ins from them!

I think if she had a 4HP input where she would turn the gun behind her instead of doing it forward, it would highly compliment her moveset and how she moves.

 

[fayestra]

I haven't seen anyone else mention this, but I don't like the idea of characters besides Dahlia having specific moves that ignite oil. IMO, interactions with a character-specific mechanic should either stay within that character, or be universal across everyone. Only Parasoul can ignite her own tears, and something like Reflector interacts with all physical hits the same, only changing if it's your team's or the enemy team's, rather than changing with specific moves or specific characters.

My idea for what could happen instead is that if you deal enough damage to the barrel, it'll explode to give everyone a universal way of lighting the fire, while only Dahlia can cut out the middle man and light the oil directly. That'd be a lot cleaner and consistent design.

The whole bullet color thing has been mentioned before, but to throw in my two cents I think the current yellow bullet + reload visual should be changed to white so that the values and hues are a bit more spread out, and so that it's more distinct from the orange bullet, and the reload visuals for special bullets should have more distinct shapes / last a few frames longer, so that they can be easier to recognize and distinguish.

 

[Corridor89]

Yes. I agree. I would love it if the affects of the shells lingered a bit long on screen after a reload.
Also, I'm sure everyone else has noticed by now, but I think that reloading with lp, mp and hp will get you specific shells. With light Another Round yielding only standard shells, medium Another Round yielding a incendiary round third, then buckshot sixth and hard Another Round getting buckshot third and incendiary sixth. Which sort of mitigates some of the need for a visual cue at her current 3 ammo types.

 

[Liam]

Hey! We're back! Hope everyone's summer has been good so far.

Here's a sneak peek at some Dahlia's prototype UI for her ammo, in-game:

When she's on the bench, we'll likely test out displaying the next ammo type that she'll use for her next "Order Up!" assist call, or her tag in:

I have a lot to catch up on, so that's all I'll share for now.

 

[Corridor89]

Damn, that's cool. I was kind of wondering about Order Up assist.

 

[SvenZ]

All of the different ammo types have probably already been decided, but here's a suggestion either way.

A slow projectile which can be detonated manually. Bounces 2 or 3 times on the ground and lingers for a bit. Can be destroyed with attacks and projectiles, but it will trigger the detonation.

Can be useful for specific juggles or creating additional space due to its speed and bounce attributes.

 

[Corridor89]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547704184090136579

new stuff!
Looks like dahlia definitely won't be getting walled by every other character with projectiles for much longer.

 

[BellaFeng4Eternity]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547704184090136579

new stuff!
Looks like dahlia definitely won't be getting walled by every other character with projectiles for much longer.

Yeah. Dahlia being allowed to teleport wherever she has her mat placed will definitely help her out a bit. Also, new ammo type as well. :D

 

[Holy Goose]

Dahlia being allowed to teleport wherever she has her mat placed will definitely help her out a bit.

This one was spoiled by her intro and outro animations
An amazing addition. Spices up the gameplay a lot.
Hope this will be featured in Mobile as well.

Also, new ammo type as well. :D

Just gets better and better.
Can't wait for the next reveal.

 

[CaioLugon]

So, I know it's way early to propose changes like this and nothing is set in stone right now, character only has half of her kit, etc. But after putting about a hundred hours into this character I'm really not a fan of how the special rounds work currently. The default shots are such a huge part of her neutral game, combos and really everything she does that whenever you reach a special round it feels much more like a detrimental thing you have to play around than an extra tool in your kit (fire losing combos, buckshot losing space control, etc). Sure, they have really cool upsides too, but since you don't get to decide when or even WHICH rounds you get to use, L reload just always feels like the better option. Even in sets where I'm just messing around it gets annoying trying to fit special rounds into my gameplan when I know I have the consistently strong option of L reload always available.

Proposition: Why not have both? What if the default rounds and the special ones were 'kept' separate in dahlia's gun and you could choose which one to shoot? You could have a separate input for each version (236p for default and 236k for special? 623p? idk) so the special rounds would be immediately available after reloading and at the same time wouldn't get in the way of using default rounds so that 'detraction' from her base kit wouldn't happen. Having the default shots consistently available would also make the rng much more bearable if that stays in the end (god pls no).

I know I'm basing my opinion and proposition on a very unfinished character but I might as well say this already, and since I'm already here, here's a little wishlist:

Spoiler

-higher damage (dahlia optimal routes do like 5.6k meterless while parasoul's bnb does 6.1k without any resources)
-jhp crossing up consistently
-L gun 5lk link
-5lk standing low
-chained jhk purple bounce
-otg after 5hp (might be possible when other specials drop but just having enough time normally would be great)
-alternatively, 5hp ground bouncing like parasoul 4hk on aerial hits
-less recovery on jhk
-2mk not scaling your follow-up (could be fine as is if she gets the damage increase)
-2mk special cancellable
-oil puddles spawning a bit farther back so point blank barrel 2hp triggers it
-having the hitbox that triggers the oil on 2hp happen on the same frame as the normal attacking hitbox
-default shots not disappearing when you get hit (i don't really want this at all but peacock exists so violence it is)

Despite of everything said above I'm really enjoying Dahlia! She already feels like a super sick neutral monster and I'm really looking forward to what's coming next!

 

[SvenZ]

Ok, I saw that she's getting a teleport, and adding even more mobility may not be the wisest thing, but hear me out. What if Dahlia had Hsien Ko's(Lei Lei) Pendulum move? Just like Hsien Ko's pendulum, Dahlia will be able to cancel the move at any time, allowing her to get in precise range for j.HK or get even more distance for Onslaught

Thematically, I believe it will also fit her extremely well. Imagine her carelessly or seductively laying on a moon crescent shaped pendulum. Something like this, but with even more character. I'd imagine her completely resting on the thing, legs up and sipping tea.

If added as a special move, it won't probably need to do that much damage, since the general utility would be good. Alternatively, it could be used as a super, and continue or finish off an air combo

 

[Nuuance]

If added as a special move, it won't probably need to do that much damage, since the general utility would be good. Alternatively, it could be used as a super, and continue or finish off an air combo

That looks cool. More movement would be nice seeing that there hasnt been any real stuff like that since fortune imo. obviously different considering her more strict frame data, but i just wanna be able to onslaught cancel outta normals. It's not safe like squigly's cancel & looks incredibly fun to string interesting combos air or ground + mind games as it seems thats what she's about. As well letting us decide short jump or longer one based on kk input. @CaioLugon 100 hrs holyyy

 

[Chrono_Tata]

Ok, I saw that she's getting a teleport, and adding even more mobility may not be the wisest thing, but hear me out. What if Dahlia had Hsien Ko's(Lei Lei) Pendulum move? Just like Hsien Ko's pendulum, Dahlia will be able to cancel the move at any time, allowing her to get in precise range for j.HK or get even more distance for Onslaught

I like the idea. And her tag-out is her shooting a grappling hook to the ceiling and hoisting herself out so it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Liam]

What if Dahlia had Hsien Ko's(Lei Lei) Pendulum move?

Small note - by the time a character hits alpha, all of their move art is more or less locked in if not already drawn in a rough state, so while move requests are fun to think about, it is generally not helpful feedback. Just detailing friction you have with a situation is usually more helpful that prescribing a solution, that way designers can come up with a solution that is both reasonable in scope and execution if one is available. Don't mean to single you out or anything, just thought I might share that!

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Also, hello sorry that the next update is taking so long! We have so many mechanics that are all coming into place at once so we're trying to group everything together and deliver it as one update. There's enough moving pieces that it's difficult to drip feed them out as they're ready.

It's bold, but we'll see if we can get all of her ammo types added in the next update, along with the other special showcased in the referenced Twitter post, and maybe even another one on top of that. Thanks for your patience!

 

[the_rpg_king]

The fact that Black Dahlia has unique rounds, including her elemental rounds in her gun is totally awesome. That's why I made her a Nine the Phantom palette. It's my opinion, but I am loving every second of her development so far.

 

[SvenZ]

Small note - by the time a character hits alpha, all of their move art is more or less locked in if not already drawn in a rough state, so while move requests are fun to think about, it is generally not helpful feedback. Just detailing friction you have with a situation is usually more helpful that prescribing a solution, that way designers can come up with a solution that is both reasonable in scope and execution if one is available. Don't mean to single you out or anything, just thought I might share that!

Fair enough, unplanned changes for a fighting game, a 2D sprite one no less, must be really hard

 

[the_rpg_king]

As much I enjoyed Black Dahlia, I think she should have an ingame UI element that displays how many bullets she currently has and the next bullet to be fired from her gun. Also, an ice-elemental bullet colored light blue would be awesome because none of the characters have ice powers.

 

[Corridor89]

As much I enjoyed Black Dahlia, I think she should have an ingame UI element that displays how many bullets she currently has and the next bullet to be fired from her gun. Also, an ice-elemental bullet colored light blue would be awesome because none of the characters have ice powers.

Scroll up a bit. Liam already posted a screenshot of her getting a new HUD element for her ammo.

 

[the_rpg_king]

Scroll up a bit. Liam already posted a screenshot of her getting a new HUD element for her ammo.

Black Dahlia is actually getting an HUD element? Totally hyped for this. Well, guess I'm now down to my two feedbacks to give to them; a Nine the Phantom palette and three more elemental bullets, like an ice-elemental bullet colored light blue, a water elemental bullet colored dark blue and a wind-elemental bullet colored green.

 

[Mayor of Earth]

I'd like to start up discussion on Barrel super, Although I think the current version is extremely good for one bar for all its properties and neutral help I can't help but agree that the barrel shouldn't roll backwards on midscreen sandwich from a purely realistic standpoint, Although this would be a nerf for sandwich pressure with this super, I can't help but feel like thats ok givin its current strengths, Unless the barrel is blood thirsty and living like peacock bombs but I don't think that's the case (although it would be cool). But as it stands its up there in terms of best utility supers in the game and Im sure her other tools will more then make up for it. I've seen barrel eat fortune level 3's, and a whole lot of other specials and supers, I'm not going to say its too good cause shes missing the rest of her kit, If push comes to shove and post release you get people complaining you can Remove the move eating property once the barrel goes into crumple state where it can no longer roll, I foresee this helping players out if her barrel neutral becomes too oppressive at 1 bar.

Another interesting interaction is that barrel interacts with burst and i'm not sure if its intentional, but it is funny to anti-burst bait people, and I believe Caio also mentioned the bug where fire ignites oil but doesnt ignite the barrel, Some sort of chain skipping going on but besides that loving this super over all