• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Black Dahlia Alpha/Beta Gameplay Discussion Thread

Cattfish

Active Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
157
Reaction score
83
Points
28
Age
24
Location
Charlotte, VT
Steam
IBelieveIn720
Robo Fortune Double
This thread is to keep tech, questions, bugs, feedback, and miscellaneous discussion about Black Dahlia's ongoing gameplay development in one accessible location for HVS.

>>>>> This is NOT a thread to discuss balance changes or feedback for characters other than Black Dahlia. <<<<<​

Black Dahlia's Alpha release was announced for June 16th, 2022.
Brief FAQ time that will be updated with more info:

Q: Where do I find combos and resets?
A: Check the hashtag #SG_BD on Twitter! The community aims to upload tech under that label.

PenPen's starter Black Dahlia CMV!
0:00 Basic Starter, 5332 damage:
2LK 2MK 5HK 236HP
5MK 5HK
jMK jHP
5LK 5HK
jLP jMK jHP j236LP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HK

0:11jHK conversion, 5265 damage:
jHK j236LP KK jHP
2MP 5HK
jMK jHP
5LK 2MP 5HK
jLP jMK jHP j236LP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HK

0:22 Bulletless Combo
2LK 2MP 5HK
jMK jHP
2MP 5HK
jMP(2) jHP
microdash 5LK 5HK
jLP jMK
5LP 2MP 2HK 214K (sweep into perfect reload is -1 (!)

0:31 Throw combo, snapback conversion, 2993 damage ONLY WORKS AGAINST SOLOS/1 CHARACTER REMAINING
LPLK 236MPMK
2MP 5HK
jMK jHP
5LK 2MP 5HK
jLP jMK jHP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

0:41 Air Throw Combo, 3697 damage
jLPLK
dash 2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP KK jMK
5LK 5HK
jMP(2) jHP
2MP 5HK
jLP jMK jHK
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

0:54 Corner Combo, 5572 damage
2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
5MK 5HK 236HP
2MP 5HK 236HP
5LK 5HK
jMK jHP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

1:05 Double (heavies?) 5448 Combo,
2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
dash 5MK 5HK
jMK jHP j236HP
2MP 5HK
jLP jHP j236HP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

1:15 Double (heavies?) Corner Combo, 5496 damage
2LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
2MP 5HK 236HP
5MK 5HK 236HP
5LK 5HK
jMK jHP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

1: 26 Double (heavies?) Corner Throw Combo, 3851 damage
LPLK 5LK 2MP 5HK 236HP
KK jMK jHP j236HP
5HK
jLP jHP j236HP
5MP 2HP 236LP
5LP(2) 5MP 5HK 236HP

Q: Where do I talk about PALETTES?
A: Not in this thread.

Q: When will the wiki be updated with Dahlia info?
A: Not until she's out of beta and fully released. There would be too many edits as she undergoes changes during Alpha/Beta.

[Placeholder for team position, composition, and assist questions. I know you're waiting to ask Frame 1 of her release]

[Placeholder for Grenade explanation.]

[Placeholder for Onslaught explanation.]
 
Last edited:

rznant

average robo enjoyer
Joined
Jun 16, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Steam
rznant
Robo Fortune Squigly Big Band
Starting off the thread by saying hey, she's finally here! I can't wait to hit people with this:

1655457977820.png


7 frames of startup, by the way! I hope this sticks.

It's too early to say anything about her outside of "wow, I can't wait for the rest of her kit to come in!" so I'm left to wonder: is Assault's behavior a fork of Robo's Homing Directory? Are the two other ammo types being randomized between the third and last slots placeholder or a glimpse into the future of her reloading mechanic? Does she play Halo? Is TK Order Up going to be faster than doing it grounded ala Robo's TK M Beam?

Too many questions to ask.
 

Holy Goose

Science Shark Supporter
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
146
Reaction score
135
Points
43
Age
30
Location
Moscow, Russia
Steam
eestifisher
Unknown Unknown Unknown
I can't wait to hit people with this:
Best attack ever. Hooray for slapping your opponents!

The videos with the killer granny are multiplying. So nice to see.
Her animations are amazing.
 

SonicFox

Fox of the Stars
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
762
Reaction score
1,327
Points
93
Age
24
PSN
SonicFox5000
XBL
SonicFox5000
Unknown Robo Fortune Filia
I Think she should be able to do Assualt J.LK into J.HP
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hyggend and Turvon

LugusRori

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
1
Reaction score
3
Points
3
So, here is my feedback:

- She is really fun to play with, but hard to master her movements.

- I think her Order Up, S. MK/Stiletto Stab and dash on the ground should be a little faster.

- Her J. HK can only be used in specific moments, because most of the time I miss the attack on the opponent because they are closer to Dahlia, out of the saw's hitbox. To me, the saw should hit opponents that are close to Dahlia. Or maybe the damage could be lower when the opponent is closer to the saw, than when they are hit on the current saw's reach.

- Her S. MK could be a follow up attack, like J. MK can be a follow up attack to J. LP or J. LK.

- It's a little frustrating that the flame rounds from her gun only does damage when it hits the ground. Multiples times, I'm doing a combo, and when I shoot, it's a flame round that pass right through the enemy, interrupting the combo, giving the opponent a chance to hit me, and only hitting them when it hits the ground. I think the flame round could hit the opponent not only when it hits the ground. Maybe it could do less damage when it doesn't hit the ground, but still hit the opponent in the air, for example.

Some bugs that i Noticed.

- When Valentine grabs Dahlia, her sprite glitches a little. The normal would be for her to rotate a little, but Dahlia's sprite appears out of the area she was.

- When Robo Fortune grabs Dahlia, her sprite is inverted, when she should be horizontal and with her head to the left, it's to the right. (It's kinda hard to explain, only seeing to understand.)

- When Dahlia is on the ground, and about to get up, there is a visual glitch near her back. Face down to be exactly.

Suggestion for future attacks (majority of then are based around the conecept art)

- She could use perfume grenades that, when it hits the opponent or the ground, the area around the hit location would create a poisonous smokescreen that would slowly drain the opponent's health while they were in it, or until the smoke dissipated, functioning as a tear gas. It could vary it's range.

- Dahlia could use her gun as a flamethrower, as a uppercut where it would deal high damage at close range, but deal little damage if the opponent is far away, but still in the hit area. Or she could use like Big Band's Brass Knuckles.

- It would be cool if she could change her gun into a chainsaw for a Special or Super/Blockbuster. As a Super, Dahlia could use to inflict a lot of hits while doing a fancy dance.

sorry if this comment has broken english, it's because english isn't my primary language. But I hope this comment help.
 
Last edited:

Shnarfl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
111
Reaction score
274
Points
63
Age
29
Steam
shnarfl
My comment is that if perfect reload is a straight upgrade over a basic reload, just with an execution barrier, you might as well remove the barrier and make every reload perfect. Why make it so players with worse execution have a slightly slower reload, when the real barrier should be managing their ammo correctly?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kuroonehalf

Nuuance

Level 51 Pastrymancer
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
832
Reaction score
382
Points
63
Location
Toronto
Website
youtube.com
Steam
Nuuance
Squigly Eliza
She’s exciting & has alotta potential. things Im sure would feel great next round for style points: holding shots before shooting, feints, and Onslaught-canceling normals & shots

Some fun mind games making people block for the assumed shot, then jumping in. Right now you cant mix it up how you like & it feels stiff. Or just chill in the air floating aiming down the barrel just waiting for them to do something. Obviously there's the chance of a counterhit before you get the shot off or cancel but thats the fun part.

The moment in the trailer faking the shot and grabbing was just dope & stuck with me. having an actual shot feint like qcf+p~k (plink k to cancel after immediately or when you're ready). faster recovery like most feints. that's the only thing feeling like it's missing at the moment. derinitely wanna play mind games and being a shifty tricksy character, it just feels right to hold the shotty up & be like sike. A white flag or something would be a funny touch, just take peacocks flag but erase the bang...or simply using a small effect we already have like the smoke & gun click sound effect.

onslaught Canceling normals & air strings just seems natural to me. I’d almost say this is more important. Feels weird to have to wait after recovery. Not very mixy...follows combo stages like normal, fast j.lk but no instant overhead & seeing it as a command movement special, that execution would be fun stringing together. apart from fortune, there aren’t really other characters you can freely dance around with in a word. I think that’s why fiber upper feels so good. This is as satisfying so I’d like to use it like a command dash cancel.for shots, I’d say cancellable on hit & block

Secondhand Edit: Main qualm is how tag-in is effectively negative/can’t combo into on hit. With her slow moves you can’t even tick grab because they can DP. not feeling tag-in as only big criticism rn because she’s now at an objective disadvantage. Even out of stagger for closest hit, 5lp doesn’t help being 7f. You’re gonna lose unless you block. don’t mind if it does a pink/blue knockdown for tag-in only if it’s absolutely against her design to combo out, but she needs either some space or be positive enough she’s not at a bigger disadvantage. especially on hit.

lastly j.mk, can we get more active frames on that à la Eliza's j.mk — (sidenote nice touch shooting off walls, can they have a bit more rebound? Mostly hit in the same place)
 
Last edited:

Chrono_Tata

When's Adam
Moderator
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
821
Reaction score
887
Points
93
Location
Where the sky's been tainted red
Steam
Chrono_Tata
PSN
Chrono_Tata
Cerebella Painwheel Unknown
My comment is that if perfect reload is a straight upgrade over a basic reload, just with an execution barrier, you might as well remove the barrier and make every reload perfect. Why make it so players with worse execution have a slightly slower reload, when the real barrier should be managing their ammo correctly?
I agree in principle (btw devs pls remove stagger shake), but I think since reload is still in an early stage I'm hoping there will be a risk-reward factor to using active reload.

For example, perhaps active reload could significantly reduce reload recovery time, but only loads, say, 4 bullets instead of the usual 6. That would make it more of a decision rather than being purely an execution check. Although if that were the case I hope they make the timing window a bit more lenient too.
 

Ranger

There is no Power prefix
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
19
Points
8
Age
25
Location
Moscow
Steam
RangersFTW
Cerebella Valentine Parasoul
Her framedata feels very strict atm, limiting her combo routes severely. I know there's more stuff coming but it really sucks. Maybe ease on hitstun a little?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Turvon

ProfNJ

Drop Beats Not Colonies
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Messages
9
Reaction score
8
Points
3
Location
US East
Website
rorygrant.github.io
Steam
ProfPuppyPunter
PSN
G-man-gee
Peacock Squigly Big Band
(I'm jotting this out at work, I apologize if none of this is readable)

Dahlia is really, really fun so far and getting a character to feel this complete with so little is quite an accomplishment. There are some hangups that I have about her though, but they could potentially go away with some moveset additions.

The main thing I would like to hear from the dev team is a little more about the direction they want Dahlia to skew towards. Obviously it's very early in her concept, but some more insight into how you guys see her playstyle fleshing out would be very helpful in contextualizing her current state and give better feedback from now until release.

Some more specific thoughts:

- I am a huge fan of active reload in its current state and being able to just frame it for better advantage, though I sort of wish the payoff for hitting the just frame was a bit stronger. I believe the total duration for a perfect reload is 62 frames give or take, which is slower than Robo cHK even with the extra effort. Shaving off a little more recovery could be nice, as it would make sweep into reload as well as shooting to cover reload a little safer.

- While Dahlia feels very strong in the air, as of right now her ground dash feels very unfun. The most recent update helped a little in making dashing normals feel natural, but still the startup on Dahlia's dash just makes her feel uncomfortable. That being said, more moves that allow Dahlia to stay airborne would probably assuage some concerns here, as even with just her suite of air normals, stalling with jLK and gunshot, and moving with air Onslaught, it's a blast to be off the ground.

- I'm struggling to find ways to justify her frame data, especially on hit. Her single plus on block move is 5LP which whiffs on crouching opponents, and most of her grounded normals being minus on hit makes using tools like 2LP/5LK/2MP very rough, especially in resets. As for jLK, I can understand that the hitstun is very low to make using jLK in mixups require setup/assists to confirm, but -6 on hit is also making it awkward as a filler normal in combos. All of these are really fun tools that feel clunky due to overly conservative frame data. Please consider making her ground light normals plus on hit and block, and also potentially testing some more hitstun on jLK. Would it being even +1 on hit be enough for unwanted IOH confirms?

- I'd also want to look at gunshot or atleast buckshot being + on block. Considering that gunshot a resource I need to upkeep, and I (currently) have to roll for buckshot, the shotgun being plus would compliment its niche as a close range offensive tool versus the defensive capability of the fire grenade.

- 2MK is quite an interesting tool to play with. It feels strong as both a zoning/setup compliment to her gun and as an evasive maneuver on the ground, though it slots into her chains at a rather odd point. I'd like to test maybe switching 2MK and 2HK to allow more freedom in stringing into the trap without giving her LMMH chaining, as the current chain system seems deliberately built around 5MK working as it does. Alternatively, I'd like to test being able to special cancel the very end of 2MK (when she hits the ground after the hop). It could lead to pretty interesting zoning/setup scenarios.

All things considered, Dahlia so far is conceptually all I could have asked for so far, and I can't wait to see more of her. Kudos to the team!
 

BellaFeng4Eternity

Feng and Jam Waiting Room
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
33
Points
18
Location
Old Forge, Pennsylvania
Steam
BellaFeng4Eternity
Cerebella Squigly Double
I think if would be nice if Dahlia can cancel her command jump into her normals or at least can carry dash momentum. That's the only QoL change I would like to see for the character while she's in development.
 

Nuuance

Level 51 Pastrymancer
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
832
Reaction score
382
Points
63
Location
Toronto
Website
youtube.com
Steam
Nuuance
Squigly Eliza
I think if would be nice if Dahlia can cancel her command jump into her normals or at least can carry dash momentum. That's the only QoL change I would like to see for the character while she's in development.
Like soon as you land onslaught (with a slide), hitting the normal? Or like plink cancelling so you never leave the ground but scoot forward? Dont quite understand, Dash cancelling into normals might solve that. Either way I wouldnt mind if we can decide which onslaught we use depending on the combination of KK buttons rather than always being automatically decided. Guessing most noticed when close you do a short hop, far does a big one. Letting players decide would be really cool.

Also weird thing i noticed...most likely because lack of tools but something funny i noticed, ironically from actual midrange...she cant convert. Close, she can with 5lp (if not crouching/IPS allows) & from quite afar, she can onslaught + dash...but there's this weird middle ground where she just can't. Another reason i think shots & normals --> onslaught cancel should just be standard as a part of her character mechanic. smooth movement lesgo
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BellaFeng4Eternity

BellaFeng4Eternity

Feng and Jam Waiting Room
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
33
Points
18
Location
Old Forge, Pennsylvania
Steam
BellaFeng4Eternity
Cerebella Squigly Double
Like soon as you land onslaught (with a slide), hitting the normal? Or like plink cancelling so you never leave the ground but scoot forward? Dont quite understand, Dash cancelling into normals might solve that. Either way I wouldnt mind if we can decide which onslaught we use depending on the combination of KK buttons rather than always being automatically decided. Guessing most noticed when close you do a short hop, far does a big one. Letting players decide would be really cool.

Also weird thing i noticed...most likely because lack of tools but something funny i noticed, ironically from actual midrange...she cant convert. Close, she can with 5lp (if not crouching/IPS allows) & from quite afar, she can onslaught + dash...but there's this weird middle ground where she just can't. Another reason i think shots & normals --> onslaught cancel should just be standard as a part of her character mechanic. smooth movement lesgo
I'm also down for these changes to Dahlia as well. Hopefully they'll be good enough to help her out a bit in the current Season 1 meta despite her in a currently unfinished state right now.