• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Blazblue

Aww Naoto's going to be story relevant, ugh
 
when has Blazblue ever introduced a character that wasn't story relevant
ha
ha
ha
i believe in you amane ;~;
 
  • Like
Reactions: Number 13 and Ktulu
Not just him....Quite a bit of the cast fall's in and out of relevancy depending on the game. What has Tao done to really move things forward herself, for example.
 
North888 said:
What has Tao done to really move things forward herself, for example.

She's one of only two people that can sense Saya's presence. I'm pretty sure that's it.
 
Ruin said:
when has Blazblue ever introduced a character that wasn't story relevant
ha
ha
ha
i believe in you amane ;~;

Well, seeing as that character can have a casual conversation with Rachel, its clear that he's on SOME sort of higher power level plane the rest of the cast. what that is, we'll probably see here.
 
Made this today.
mJ25hHp.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dragonage2ftw, SkullMan and Ktulu
lol Jin got replaced by Naoto as the new Ragna rival. I can already see the gag reel potential. They already pretty much did one like that with Kagura/Celica 'threatening' the relevance of Ragna/Noel

Mai when?
 
With any hope?

Never.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ktulu
DDB said:
With any hope?

Never.
Seriously, how could anyone even want her in?
In reality though she's probably going to be added soon, considering how the manga had that little story thing in CP:Extend.
I really wish they would stop acknowledging the mangas.
 
i honestly just wanna see a sword and dagger fighter
Mai uses a sword and dagger
so
you know
i'm down
 
  • Like
Reactions: Number 13
Meow-Professor said:
Seriously, how could anyone even want her in?
Easy. Canon wise out of all of Noel's group in the academy she had the 2nd most combat prowess with the 1st being Makoto. She is apart of one of those great families like Kagura and Jin. Remix Hearts wasn't just pure RomCom there was some interesting lore relevant stuff revealed with cameos everywhere.

She would have an interesting playstyle that would be a mix of Linne/Shiki/Rouge, doesn't have "plot reasons" to keep her out, and doesn't have a hitbox issue. She is also hardly the most insignificant either out of the current cast. Would easily rather have her then another Muru unit, another "I can't really fight, but I can still fight" character, or people that were barely introduced in CP as an npc suddenly get promoted to playable. Notice I didn't even get into the whole "it's a dude, but not really" angle.

Honestly if someone from the LN like Naoto is already in where literally nobody saw coming since he had no buildup to become playable [unlike Mai] then the floodgates are already open.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dragonage2ftw
Ruin said:
i honestly just wanna see a sword and dagger fighter
Mai uses a sword and dagger
so
you know
i'm down
And I would like a cat that fights with a pair of samurai swords, but whatever. It isn't like I'm mad about that or anything.
 
Meow-Professor said:
And I would like a cat that fights with a pair of samurai swords, but whatever. It isn't like I'm mad about that or anything.
well it's a good thing that you aren't mad about it because that would be pretty embarrassing to be mad over a video game
 
  • Like
Reactions: Meow-Professor
Number 13 said:
Easy. Canon wise out of all of Noel's group in the academy she had the 2nd most combat prowess with the 1st being Makoto. She is apart of one of those great families like Kagura and Jin. Remix Hearts wasn't just pure RomCom there was some interesting lore relevant stuff revealed with cameos everywhere.

She would have an interesting playstyle that would be a mix of Linne/Shiki/Rouge, doesn't have "plot reasons" to keep her out, and doesn't have a hitbox issue. She is also hardly the most insignificant either out of the current cast. Would easily rather have her then another Muru unit, another "I can't really fight, but I can still fight" character, or people that were barely introduced in CP as an npc suddenly get promoted to playable. Notice I didn't even get into the whole "it's a dude, but not really" angle.
I have read a large portion of Remix Heart and I think it is really bad. I find her extremely uninteresting and grating and I feel like there are much better people to add. I also don't like the idea of adding anyone from the manga as I feel like they aren't very good and come off as very fanfic-y. I much prefer them being their own thing instead of part of the main games.

I don't see why her being a "I can't really fight, but I can still fight" character is relevant to you if her personality (even arguable the "it's a dude, but not really" angle) isn't relevant. The personality/lore of a character is just as important to me as the gameplay. Even if I found Noel one of the most fun characters in the cast, I still wouldn't play her as I find her to be a charisma black hole that ruins everything around her. Her personality and story is silly and I really would've preferred if her manga was somewhat separate from the main game.

Part of this is why I dislike Naoto as well. I hate the manga he is from (although less so than Remix Heart) and I really dislike him as a character. I really don't think he deserved to be playable when there are much more interesting and substantial characters to be made playable.
 
Meow-Professor said:
I have read a large portion of Remix Heart and I think it is really bad. I find her extremely uninteresting and grating and I feel like there are much better people to add. I also don't like the idea of adding anyone from the manga as I feel like they aren't very good and come off as very fanfic-y. I much prefer them being their own thing instead of part of the main games.

I don't see why her being a "I can't really fight, but I can still fight" character is relevant to you if her personality (even arguable the "it's a dude, but not really" angle) isn't relevant. The personality/lore of a character is just as important to me as the gameplay. Even if I found Noel one of the most fun characters in the cast, I still wouldn't play her as I find her to be a charisma black hole that ruins everything around her. Her personality and story is silly and I really would've preferred if her manga was somewhat separate from the main game.

Part of this is why I dislike Naoto as well. I hate the manga he is from (although less so than Remix Heart) and I really dislike him as a character. I really don't think he deserved to be playable when there are much more interesting and substantial characters to be made playable.
Which is all subjective taste that your entitled to have.

I personally don't give a fuck about the little Yoda cat becoming playable for a variety of reasons, but I understand he has fans so I'm not gonna make a "no idea WHY he is requested" type remark and just respect that everyone has different tastes on what appeals to them and move on. Hell I might even be happy for them.
 
I just want my boy Amane to do something
I believe in you, son ;~;
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ktulu
Jubei has an eyepatch, which basically just automatically makes you the best character.
 
Number 13 said:
I personally don't give a fuck about the little Yoda cat becoming playable for a variety of reasons, but I understand he has fans so I'm not gonna make a "no idea WHY he is requested" type remark and just respect that everyone has different tastes on what appeals to them and move on. Hell I might even be happy for them.
There's no need to be so passive aggressive. I was being very negative, yes, but it was a legitimate question about why someone would want her to be playable, hence the "seriously".
Despite that, I have never come across anyone who actually likes Remix Heart and has a reason for it. I have spoken to a lot of people about it, and I might just be looking in the wrong place, but the general consensus to me seems to be that it is not very good and a lot of people don't think Mai is a good character. This doesn't invalidate those opinions but I feel like she's bad not on an opinionated level but because she's not actually a very good character.
 
To be honest BB isn't very good and a lot of people don't think any of the characters are good.


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Also that last sentence HAS to be opinionated, by the very definition of "good" and the fact that "good" is relative.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Meow-Professor
BB has a few gems, but it kinda fails at times to tread that line of serious and funny. Thanks to how it designed certain characters, there's a lot of comedic relief that bogs the actually decent chars down. Platinum is funny to an extent, but when all she does is call Ragna a peso and fawn over Jubei, all her possibilities get waylaid and she becomes annoying. This applies to the running gag with Noel and her flat chest and Murakumo outfits as well. Honestly BB would be tons better of they focused on making new jokes and comedy between characters instead of just following the jokes they've already made
Honestly Kagura and Tao are hilarious, just because of his unique banter and Tao being exclusively comedic relief.

Note that this is also the problem with the Persona 4 and Hyperdimension Neptunia saturation....
 
iLoli said:
Also that last sentence HAS to be opinionated, by the very definition of "good" and the fact that "good" is relative.
Well, people can disagree about the specifics of the character (for example someone might find a character's personality annoying while someone else might find it unique or interesting), but personally I feel like some things can be objectively bad. A character not being developed or having any backstory/lore at all can be argued to be bad not on an opinionated level. If a character is very plain or is basically a blank slate nobody can really argue they are interesting or compelling. If someone is very trope-filled or has physically nothing original about them, that is something I'd say is bad on a basic level. I feel like Mai isn't a good character by the definition of what makes a character "good" (interesting, good development, whether they are actually unique, etc). "Good" does not also imply opinion, while it is usually the case, just like something being "bad".

People can like bad things, though. Take a look at video games; a lot of people like and play games that are objectively bad on basic levels but still enjoy them for one reason or another. I'm saying someone can have an opinion on something and like it even when it isn't actually a good character/game/whatever without their opinions being invalidated.
 
North888 said:
BB has a few gems, but it kinda fails at times to tread that line of serious and funny. Thanks to how it designed certain characters, there's a lot of comedic relief that bogs the actually decent chars down. Platinum is funny to an extent, but when all she does is call Ragna a peso and fawn over Jubei, all her possibilities get waylaid and she becomes annoying. This applies to the running gag with Noel and her flat chest and Murakumo outfits as well. Honestly BB would be tons better of they focused on making new jokes and comedy between characters instead of just following the jokes they've already made
Honestly Kagura and Tao are hilarious, just because of his unique banter and Tao being exclusively comedic relief.

Note that this is also the problem with the Persona 4 and Hyperdimension Neptunia saturation....
It got really bad in ChronoPhantasma, where 90% of the gag reels were literally just "REMEMBER WHAT WE DID LAST GAME? LET'S DO THAT AGAIN".
 
I mentioned this recently on another forum, but the biggest flaw in Blazblue's story IMO is the same as in Kingdom Hearts:

They had something decent, then they turned it into a franchise.

I think CT was a charming little visual novel/fighter mash up (adimttedly, Guilty Gear did it first, though not nearly as well). If BB's story had been a self contained affair, maybe spanning a trilogy of three games and wrapping itself up neatly, I think it would have been pretty entertaining.

But when you're constantly adding new characters, plot points, conspiracies, and other assorted bullshit for every single yearly release (whilst always promising an awesome conclusion later) it turns into a complete clusterfuck pretty fast.

Same with Kingdom Hearts. First game was charming, sweet, and well done. After that it became an endless soap opera of nonsense.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
I mentioned this recently on another forum, but the biggest flaw in Blazblue's story IMO is the same as in Kingdom Hearts:

They had something decent, then they turned it into a franchise.

I think CT was a charming little visual novel/fighter mash up (adimttedly, Guilty Gear did it first, though not nearly as well). If BB's story had been a self contained affair, maybe spanning a trilogy of three games and wrapping itself up neatly, I think it would have been pretty entertaining.

But when you're constantly adding new characters, plot points, conspiracies, and other assorted bullshit for every single yearly release (whilst always promising an awesome conclusion later) it turns into a complete clusterfuck pretty fast.

Same with Kingdom Hearts. First game was charming, sweet, and well done. After that it became an endless soap opera of nonsense.
Personally I liked Continuum Shift as well (that was really where the gameplay started to become something interesting [still not the best, I really disliked the guard primer system]) and while the plot was kind of just a bridge between CT and CP (I know a ton happens there but it feels so boring and forgettable), I feel like it was the game that introduced the most interesting characters.
CP is really when things started to go downhill imo. Lots of unnecessary characters and plotpoints were added and everything just felt really sloppy and bad. It became way too convoluted and needlessly padded, with every character being reduced to one major character trait (the gag reels here are honestly really why I feel this way. The CS ones were nice in small doses, with some being legitimately clever and funny in my opinion, but the CP ones felt extremely forced and followed the "give one character one trait each and hammer it into the viewer's head multiple times until they can't take it anymore" school of thought).

I feel like Central Fiction is just going to make the problems that exist even more noticeable. So far characters seem to be getting added/made relevant on a much larger level for really no reason. Both the gameplay (active flow ugh) and the story seem much less promising. I feel like yeah, if they had made it a trilogy, it would work much better. CS's story is so "meh"; it has a lot happen yet at the same time it is very forgettable, but I don't think the series goes downhill until CP.
 
Meow-Professor said:
Well, people can disagree about the specifics of the character (for example someone might find a character's personality annoying while someone else might find it unique or interesting), but personally I feel like some things can be objectively bad. A character not being developed or having any backstory/lore at all can be argued to be bad not on an opinionated level. If a character is very plain or is basically a blank slate nobody can really argue they are interesting or compelling. If someone is very trope-filled or has physically nothing original about them, that is something I'd say is bad on a basic level. I feel like Mai isn't a good character by the definition of what makes a character "good" (interesting, good development, whether they are actually unique, etc). "Good" does not also imply opinion, while it is usually the case, just like something being "bad".

People can like bad things, though. Take a look at video games; a lot of people like and play games that are objectively bad on basic levels but still enjoy them for one reason or another. I'm saying someone can have an opinion on something and like it even when it isn't actually a good character/game/whatever without their opinions being invalidated.
Even that is an opinion.

Static characters aren't bad just because they're static, or Kamina and Jubei would be awful and they're not.
Tropes in of themselves aren't bad, tropes are tools, and whether you like it or not, there's thousands of years of literature behind you. Both Kamina and Jubei are painfully unoriginal trope filled characters. We know next to nothing about Jubei, even his actual personality is a mystery.

While all of BB's writing is pretty much shit,(objectively) at least Mai is a flesh out character with things, Jubei is nothing.

Also you're using "objective and subjective" a little loose there.

Things with Empirical evidence and held standards can do the "good and bad" thing, everything else is relative.

So while you can have a "good" and "bad" character, "trope filled" and "good development" and "uniqueness" aren't really factors. Those aren't on "the" checklist of good and bad, those are on the checklist of "innovative and interesting", and not everything that is innovative and interesting is good.

Also a blank slate character also isn't inherently bad. Almost nothing in a vacuum in literature is awful.
 
The scary thing about BlazBlue's story is that, at least according to Mori, it was actually planned out ahead of time. It was always intended to be a series.

That said, even though the series' plot isn't remotely well-written, I do find myself enjoying it in a guilty pleasure kind of way.
 
Yes the only difference it was originally gonna be a jrpg apparently. GG Xrd in contrast makes the story up as it goes apparently.
 
iLoli said:
Even that is an opinion.

Static characters aren't bad just because they're static, or Kamina and Jubei would be awful and they're not.
Tropes in of themselves aren't bad, tropes are tools, and whether you like it or not, there's thousands of years of literature behind you. Both Kamina and Jubei are painfully unoriginal trope filled characters. We know next to nothing about Jubei, even his actual personality is a mystery.

While all of BB's writing is pretty much shit,(objectively) at least Mai is a flesh out character with things, Jubei is nothing.

Also you're using "objective and subjective" a little loose there.

Things with Empirical evidence and held standards can do the "good and bad" thing, everything else is relative.

So while you can have a "good" and "bad" character, "trope filled" and "good development" and "uniqueness" aren't really factors. Those aren't on "the" checklist of good and bad, those are on the checklist of "innovative and interesting", and not everything that is innovative and interesting is good.

Also a blank slate character also isn't inherently bad. Almost nothing in a vacuum in literature is awful.
Kamina has a lot of personality to him and is interesting. He comes from an interesting place, is very humorous and over the top, and just is very defined. He's a static character, yes, but that isn't the only thing that makes a character "good". Lots of characters aren't dynamic and still are interesting or memorable. Jubei is not a good character based on what I consider makes a character "good", but he's interesting. A cat that stands on two legs, wields a sword, and raised/trained the main character? I've never seen that before. He doesn't have the other traits I think makes a good character, but he's very new and interesting and is something I've not seen before.
Mai is fleshed out somewhat but is no way interesting and is very generic. She really does nothing to make herself memorable.

I don't see how a character with no personality, no development, or anything at all wouldn't be "objectively" bad. They have physically nothing to them. Yes, people might still like them, but I wouldn't call them good by any stretch of the word.

Personally I really don't find a character's "goodness" relative, and I don't see why it would be. There are things that make a character good or bad on a basic level, and then you have opinions. Even if I don't like a character in some kind of form of literature/media, I can still recognize they might be well-developed, interesting, or something else, and I don't like them because of opinion, or vice-versa.
 
Meow-Professor said:
Kamina has a lot of personality to him and is interesting. He comes from an interesting place, is very humorous and over the top, and just is very defined. He's a static character, yes, but that isn't the only thing that makes a character "good". Lots of characters aren't dynamic and still are interesting or memorable. Jubei is not a good character based on what I consider makes a character "good", but he's interesting. A cat that stands on two legs, wields a sword, and raised/trained the main character? I've never seen that before. He doesn't have the other traits I think makes a good character, but he's very new and interesting and is something I've not seen before.
Mai is fleshed out somewhat but is no way interesting and is very generic. She really does nothing to make herself memorable.

I don't see how a character with no personality, no development, or anything at all wouldn't be "objectively" bad. They have physically nothing to them. Yes, people might still like them, but I wouldn't call them good by any stretch of the word.

Personally I really don't find a character's "goodness" relative, and I don't see why it would be. There are things that make a character good or bad on a basic level, and then you have opinions. Even if I don't like a character in some kind of form of literature/media, I can still recognize they might be well-developed, interesting, or something else, and I don't like them because of opinion, or vice-versa.
Because your subjective opinion on what should be considered objective is subjective. Can you give me a definitive amount of particular traits to say a character is good, and I mean concrete and definite, no saying "enough to" if not it's still subjective. Something like a character can't be objectively bad.
 
Meow-Professor said:
Kamina has a lot of personality to him and is interesting. He comes from an interesting place, is very humorous and over the top, and just is very defined. He's a static character, yes, but that isn't the only thing that makes a character "good". Lots of characters aren't dynamic and still are interesting or memorable. Jubei is not a good character based on what I consider makes a character "good", but he's interesting. A cat that stands on two legs, wields a sword, and raised/trained the main character? I've never seen that before. He doesn't have the other traits I think makes a good character, but he's very new and interesting and is something I've not seen before.
Mai is fleshed out somewhat but is no way interesting and is very generic. She really does nothing to make herself memorable.

I don't see how a character with no personality, no development, or anything at all wouldn't be "objectively" bad. They have physically nothing to them. Yes, people might still like them, but I wouldn't call them good by any stretch of the word.

Personally I really don't find a character's "goodness" relative, and I don't see why it would be. There are things that make a character good or bad on a basic level, and then you have opinions. Even if I don't like a character in some kind of form of literature/media, I can still recognize they might be well-developed, interesting, or something else, and I don't like them because of opinion, or vice-versa.
You just did it again.
Do you not see it?

Check this out.

"Garrus Vakarian is a generic character with a predictable development arc. He says cheesy lines and is clearly there to be your "bro" character. He is a bad character."

You basically did this with Mai. Read this out loud, look how awful this sounds.


@destruction_adv I think a character CAN be objectively bad, but the parameters for such vary from work to work. Context is important. A character that is shit in one work can fit perfectly in another. Or even from position to position. Kamina would be an awful protagonist, he would be awful in Texnolyze or Lain or FF 12, but he's fine where he is.
 
Ok let's just drop it. Conversation is being less about BB now and more about what is considered subjective/objective which is not gonna go anywhere.
 
iLoli said:
I think a character CAN be objectively bad, but the parameters for such vary from work to work. Context is important. A character that is shit in one work can fit perfectly in another. Or even from position to position. Kamina would be an awful protagonist, he would be awful in Texnolyze or Lain or FF 12, but he's fine where he is.
I'm just going to end this discussion by saying yes, this is what I'm trying to say. While I do think there are some things that will make a character "bad" in every situation (mainly the "nothing to them" argument), it can vary with context. A character can be bad objectively, just like a lot of things.

Anyways, on topic. Did they ever elaborate what the "tag fighting" mechanic they were hoping to have in CF was? I remember it being mentioned in an interview and I don't remember if it was ever followed up with whether they wanted to do it or not/what it actually was.
 
I think that was more Mori musing about an idea rather than anytjing objective
 
Ruin said:
I think that was more Mori musing about an idea rather than anytjing objective
Oh, really? What I remembered was him mentioning it was something they would possibly explore if they can do it with the limitations of the PS3. He was very vague about it, which is why I was wondering if they ever elaborated.
 
Dragonage2ftw said:
What?

Taking a wild guess, pretty much no one should be canon-wise able to beat Jubei, so him losing in game could be accompanied with the above quote.

Could be wrong though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back