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can we make squigly a tiny bit better

Wait Squigly is considered good now (not top tier), I thought in the tier discussion thread she was unanimously labeled the worst in the game. Though many said that could change as people have more time with the character.
 
It also helps that she got a handful of buffs like more Daisy Pusher invincibility and sing > SBO.
 
So... If I am reading this correctly, you're saying that Squigly is "too hard to play" compared to the rest of the cast? Well, you'd be correct!

She is a more "advanced" character, meaning, she is supposed to be more difficult than other characters to play. I can say that from what I saw, the entire cast was balanced before Big Band came along (haven't seen or tried him yet) so making Squigly better would make things unbalanced, and therefore broken. You certainly don't want a broken fighting game.

The obvious solution would be to give Squigly a 1 bar super move that is basically Shin Psycho Crusher; she steps back off the screen with invincibility frames and then speeds along the screen to the right until she is off screen, covering most of it and leaving little time to block. The move should also obviously deal... 80% damage? Yes, that seems completely balanced. Hopefully I have perfected the art of sarcasm.

I too want to be able to play Squigly (I mean, she's adorable), but her play style doesn't suit me. I am too much of a dummy head to play technical characters properly; this is why I prefer Ms. Fortune, because she fits my style of play (and between you and me, she is adorable as well). Pardon the spaghetti falling out of my pockets.
 
I think Squigly is fine as is. Her stance cancel give her all kinds of ground high/low/throw Shenanigans, making her dangerous up close. Both her ground and air pokes are pretty good and she can confirm off from practically anything. The only real bad matchup is against Parasoul who can shut down her air game.

As for Dragon Punch, I think the most obvious use for it is for building a charge. If people tries to punish stupidly by jumping in, you just let go. If they are smart about it you either get a charge or you cancel and block like usual. For Anti Air I much prefer j.lk or j.hp. Although if dragon punch do have startup invincibility she will make a good assist.
 
Crossquoting
What is the justification for grab bag NOT getting anything else right now? It seems a little odd compared to other tools in the game.
What's the justification for Painwheel s.LK, Parasoul HK.Egret, Filia Ringlet Psych, Peacock L.Bang NOT getting anything else?

Not every tool needs to be super gdlk in every situation

Woofly uses her DP and I'm NOT under the impression that it's useless when I play him
 
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Draugen Punch is useless outside of a few very niche combos and setups for which she has other options that are just as good, like Liver Mortis.
DP covers a critical area of the screen that Liver does not; an area that is highly traveled in and is probably Squigly's weakest area as she has few tools to control it.

The first 2/4 frames of level 1/2 DP respectively are invulnerable unlike Liver which you could be thrown out of.

It is most definitely a useful took in neutral. You just don't have a use for it.
 
Crossquoting


Not every tool needs to be super gdlk in every situation

Woofly uses her DP and I'm NOT under the impression that it's useless when I play him
Hardly a direct comparison when Squigly's DP, though not the best DP, does play a role in her ability to control space. It has a very distinct use in Squigly's neutral.

Her s.MK on the other hand...

Really I just think Squigly needs to be able to build a little more meter and she would be pretty much golden to me. Right now she is relegated to second slot pretty much only because she is not capable of building enough meter for herself.

I don't understand why suggesting improvements to moves that are nearly useless is a bad thing though... I don't see Squigs DP at all as a useless tool, its not a good DP relative to the cast, sure, but it is still useful to her and holds a niche that no other move she has can do a better job of without a lot of meter.
 
DP covers a critical area of the screen that Liver does not; an area that is highly traveled in and is probably Squigly's weakest area as she has few tools to control it.

The first 2/4 frames of level 1/2 DP respectively are invulnerable unlike Liver which you could be thrown out of.

It is most definitely a useful took in neutral. You just don't have a use for it.

In terms of anti-airs, you'd be better off using back jump HP or just call an assist, or jump forward LK. The limited pay out, limited invincibility and slow startup is just not worth the risk.
 
Her s.MK on the other hand...

FYI cr.LK > s.MK > s.HP is her most reliable true blockstring into a heavy attack. That's pretty important, especially against people who mash. Its also her only medium normal that's safe on block without using a stancel and its got pretty good range. s.MK Level 1 Stancel gives you +4 on block which is the most block advantage you can get out of a level 1 stancel.

Maybe not during neutral but for blockstrings its a vital piece of her kit. That's a lot more than I can say for her DP.

Oh also you can use it to do some cool swag combos since it launches on airborne opponents.
 
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i've never been hit by squigly's dp in neutral . . .
 
In terms of anti-airs, you'd be better off using back jump HP or just call an assist, or jump forward LK. The limited pay out, limited invincibility and slow startup is just not worth the risk.
j.HP takes longer to come out than lvl1 DP when counting the additional jump frames, is completely vulnerable through the whole thing, gets beat out by half the cast's air options that they'd be doing when in that position, and doesn't convert unless you're willing to spend meter (which usually only works on a downward j.HP, further increasing pre-active time).

j.LK is good as it comes out quick and can stuff some of the air options j.HP loses to, but is not as good of a hitbox to cover the area as DP and you are still vulnerable during the entire thing.

Level 1 DP knocks your opponent to the other side of the screen and level 2 gives you a hard knockdown that leads to several conversion opportunities (sing xx opera, chord, assist call, tag, dhc, etc). Both give you enough time to charge up stance and be ready for your opponent's approach. And, while it's vulnerable during the stance time, it does have invincibility which all other options outside of meter lack. The invincibility allows it to beat options that j.HP, j.LK, and even MKHK/LKHK Opera lose to or trade with.

Sure it's not stupid good like the invincible moves other characters have, but it's not useless by any means.
 
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Wow this shit ain't rocket science.

The problem I have with wooflies example is that the argument he gives can be applied to literally every character.


Every character can train there opponent to expect one move and then do another. The only real application that I see from his example is that squigly gets these moves for for little to no controller/stick startup since they are button release.

But that's literally the only "buff" she gets from having to charge her moves.

I don't think squigly needs any move buffs though. The only buff I think the character could use is all around movement speed buff.

And not much at that, just like 3-5% speed buff all around would make her really good to me but not broken.

But meh.
 
Again I feel this discussion is going nowhere, if you are up for some games at some point I would be more than happy to show you how useful it can be when applied in a match setting rather than the counter-counter theorycrafting going on in here.

Sure I'm up for some games, I'm always happy to stea... i mean learn new tech
 
And here I was thinking Squigly was moving up a bit since her buffs to her supers. Or from what I've heard ; the Sing into SBO is now much more useful and that was what she really needed more then anything. But I can only say what others have told me since I've barely played the newer versions. If anything we need a thread like this for Peacock =p I hear she isn't looking as strong as the rest of the cast now.
 
Hey look, in a game where decent players are difficult to find, we have a request to buff a new character that hasn't had any time to be developed by somebody who can play well. Cool
 
We should buff Filia instead.
 
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Hey look, in a game where decent players are difficult to find, we have a request to buff a new character that hasn't had any time to be developed by somebody who can play well. Cool
I picked up Squigly 2 weeks ago and haven't found her in need of buffs. In my team of Squigly-Peacock she's the better option (so she' on point) and sometimes when I feel less magical I'll throw Parabutt in there (who I've used a bit in the past, moreso than Squigs or Peacock at least) and Squigs is still better.

She has some really useful tools, and Draugen Punch is one of them. I'll throw out a George's Day Out assist, forcing them to jump, and while I do so I start charging Draugen Punch, opponents only ever do 4 things in this situation:
  • Get hit by George, sometimes getting a single projectile hit out of it
  • Jump over George and do nothing
  • Block George or jump back
  • Jump over George and go for attack (usually jump-in)
If they go with the first then woo free damage, if they make the same mistake a lot then a silver chord gets me a conversion (although this only really happens repeatedly against scrubs).

If they go with the second one then I get a free charge of my Punch Stance moves, including the sing attack which brings the camera forward and grants instant Super Sing -> Full Combo as a counter to virtually every ranged thing in the game bar some supers, if they do so repeatedly then I can just go in for a jump grab instead of holding my charge, granting me charge, grab damage, and often throwing them down onto George for extra (I haven't tested yet, but a conversion might be possible too).

Blocking George or jumping back gives me a free charge, usually if they do this they're zoning or playing keepaway, so the charged sing is exceptionally useful. It also grants an opportunity to charge the kick stance if they do this repeatedly.

If they go for an attack then I can just unleash my Draugen Punch, which is no longer 17 frames of startup long as the stance has already been entered, dealing damage, granting knockdown on level 2 and a counterhit while giving me breathing room against characters that generally excel up close (thus why the player jumped in instead of blocking or jumping away).

The fact that I've been doing this with quite a bit of success and I'm not exactly top tier material should be enough to say that Squigly doesn't need any buffs. I'd say she's better than Cerebella (who's on my main team and I have spent considerably more than 2 weeks with), and on about the same ranking as Parasoul and Peacock (possibly lower than Psoul, but not by much).

Also inb4 I get a Dime_X essay or something that says something like "yeah but that's only with a specific assist character" Parasoul has her tears, Painwheel has her spike things, Valentine has crosses (less than fullscreen range, but still functional with a small dashup, alternatively HK Savage Bypass could work), Filia has HK Hairball, Bella has HP LnL and Double has Butt-Thrust, plus even if your opponent starts punishing your assists Squigly is equipped with the ultimate punish-punisher; Silver Chord.
 
I'm pretty sure every complaint about any of the SG characters that is unfounded generally comes down to "please make all the characters the same", which is probably also why people want Squigly to have a stronger DP/Updo clone.

Also her DP is a really good assist for Peacock imo, makes plenty of space if they get in too close for your likings.

Well in fairness, the way this game plays out favors updos and their ilk. I don't see them taking nerfs, so I say give everyone a decent invuln dp so we'll at least see some MU variety in this game.
 
Squigs has barely been a real character, it's way too soon to be asking for anything really. Also Guitalex...

Yeah, I'd like to see a few people who talk about how terrible Squigs is try and stuff Guitalex. I caught him repeatedly in ranked one night... a super frustrating night to say the least.
 
I'm not really good enough at the game to be judging characters' strength/weakness objectively and don't really have much of an opinion on Squigly yet.

But I would say it's a safe bet that with as few people playing her as there are and for as little time as she's been in the game, she's not entirely mapped out and hasn't really been deeply integrated into the metagame yet.

Also hot damn, Yaya vs. Sev. Watch it and report back.
 
Pretty sure nobody should be asking for Squiggly buffs/nerfs right now.
 
Watch that Yaya video, I cannot picture a world in which Squig is getting buffs soon.

He even puts DP to good use at about 6:50.

And that match at 9 minutes... gross damage. That damage alone will likely make her hard to buff.
 
I agree with the wait and see approach. That vid was really nice, beyond merely great combos (they were gr8 definitely!) yaya's use of Squig's move arsenal was impressive.
 
That vid definitely didn't make squigly seem weak... However it didn't really make her look super strong either... Yayas play is what was most impressive there... Iow that vid does more for saying that he's a good player, than it does for saying that squiglys a good character.


For those that don't know the difference, just watch some cvs2 iyo vids where he makes sim,maki and rolento look top tier even though they are anything but.

Another example is justin wongs ironfist...

Though there was definitely some great stuff coming from yayas squigly... I particularly liked his use of j.hp.
 
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