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Effay's Training Journal

Effay

Effay

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Effay
Valentine Parasoul Eliza
So I've settled on a team of Parasoul (Napalm)/Squigly(Drag n' Bite)/Cerebella (H LnL or Cerecopter), though for playing against other people I"m currently running just Parasoul and Squigly since I'm not comfortable playing with Cerebella yet.

I played a ton of ranked games on steam the other day with Para/squigs, got bodied in almost all of them because I don't know how to play the neutral game yet. This is my main focus when I play against other people currently; getting the hits in (and not getting hit myself). Was proud of the few games I won though, and the more I played the closer the matches got.

I'm the most comfortable with Parasoul both in terms of combos, converting hits into damage, and the neutral game but still looking to improve as always. Discovered the usefulness of j.LP and s.LP in the neutral game. I've also discovered you can combo out of your back throw if you call drag n bite as soon as she shoots her gun. Dunno if it's better or worse than continuing the combo with the roman cancel or the egret bike, but it's interesting to say the least.

I'm still pretty lost with Squigly in the neutral game besides closing the gap with dive kick and pressing buttons when i'm close while making them safe with her stancels. Mountlover's 2 hour guide helped me get a jumpstart here, shoutouts to him. (yes i watched all of it). I've actually gotten pretty good at capitalizing on what hits I do make with Squigly (again, thanks to Mountlover) and stance cancelling.

Now, Cerebella was NOT a character I expected to play in this game, since I never, ever play grapplers in fighting games. I originally had Double in this spot, but I really don't like or understand how Double works for the life of me on point. As strong as Double butt is as an assist I haven't been able to figure her out at all. Thanks to Girlystyle's advice in the team building thread, I decided to hand lockdown duties over to Squigly and try Cerebella with H LnL, because fuck it, why not?

I've only messed around in training mode with Cerebella some, trying to figure out the properties of her moves and such, seeing what sorts of strings I can convert different kinds of hits into. I'm not too sure how to approach her neutral game at all, going to have to do some research into that.
 
Effay said:
I'm the most comfortable with Parasoul both in terms of combos, converting hits into damage, and the neutral game but still looking to improve as always. Discovered the usefulness of j.LP and s.LP in the neutral game. I've also discovered you can combo out of your back throw if you call drag n bite as soon as she shoots her gun. Dunno if it's better or worse than continuing the combo with the roman cancel or the egret bike, but it's interesting to say the least.
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I wouldn't worry too much about a combo being better or worse at your current level. Just go with what's comfortable for now and if you feel the need to improve when you become somewhat intermediate at the game, then you can start looking for better stuff.
 
Today I played 2 hours of ranked or so to get some practice with Cerebella on my team. Played Keninblack my first round, got bodied (perfected actually). Didn't let that discourage me though.

My biggest weakness in terms of point characters is by far Cerebella, I'm not sure how to play her neutral game at all. So far all I know is j.MP is really fuckin' good.

Beat a few Peacock's thanks to Cerebella's H.LnL assist, which had been a matchup I've had trouble with for awhile. Felt good.

Still have the most trouble with Filia, it never feels like it's safe to press buttons against her. Played against this really annoying solo Filia with the magneto colors a bunch that did lots of random and seemingly irrational things that I didn't know how to defend against.

@RerouniLoneWolf: That lines up with my observations. There were only a few games I played so far where having a more damaging combo would have made me win instead of lose. Just being able to get the hit in is the most important thing for me right now.
 
The fact that training mode displays the frame data is incredibly useful, how did I not know about this until now? Holy shit.

I'm assuming the number on the right is the frame (dis)advantage, and the one on the left is the frames of startup?
 
Effay said:
The fact that training mode displays the frame data is incredibly useful, how did I not know about this until now? Holy shit.

I'm assuming the number on the right is the frame (dis)advantage, and the one on the left is the frames of startup?

Yeah, this games training mode is the best I've ever seen, bar none. Another really useful tool you may already be a ware of but took me a while to realize, is the select options. You can map a number of useful features to the select buton, including recorded moves for the dummy to do, and one that I've found particularly useful which is save state, where you hit it once to save a state, and can then hit select whenever you want to return both charactes to that initial state, allowing you to say, practice non-corner combos with out wasting time re-positioning yourself after each string carries them to the corner.
 
Funny you mention that, I actually just started using those features today too. Makes my practice in training mode much more efficient.
 
I haven't been able to get anywhere with Cerebella and it's been losing me more games than her assist has been helping so I've swapped my 3rd slot for Filia. I really enjoy playing her (using her Millia Rage throwback color, aw yeah) and even if her H updo assist isn't as good for my team as the H LnL having 3 characters I can play competently is a hell of a lot better than two. Plus updo is really good.

I don't know how good Filia is at being an anchor/using meter, but it's working out better so far.

I've also started using c.HP as my assist for Squigly, it's much better than drag n' bite. Keeps em in one place and is much easier to hitconfirm out of.
 
New team as of late is Parasoul/Fukua/Double, with assist being pillar/m.clone/lk.butt. Fukua is a pretty interesting character that I enjoy a lot more than Filia, and it seems to me like everyone on this team compliments each other fairly well.

Definitely going to have to work on my Double neutral game though, I have no clue how she works. All, I know so far is J.HP seems pretty good.
 
I've finally settled on running team Duck (Val/Filia/Double with c.mk/H. updo/mk.double butt as assists) since I've found Valentine to fit my style a lot better than Parasoul does. I really like the looks of Eliza, though. If she's a strong anchor i might replace double with her but in the meantime I'll just run double.

I have basic midscreen combos and resets for all three characters. Corner stuff is still a WIP but it's coming along. My biggest challenge now is figuring out my neutral game with Val. I'll have to find some good footage of Valentine play to speed this up.
 
Been playing a ton of ranked matches...not losing quite as much as i was before so I'm improving, even if it's just a little bit.

Right now my biggest problems are 1) not knowing what to do in the neutral game (especially as Val) and 2) execution mistakes costing me rounds i should have won, like accidentally tiger knee'ing after my launcher and throwing a random shuriken instead of doing the air combo. the worst part is i never ever do that in training but all bets are off during actual matches.

I've also been watching the Duckator Kumite videos from Khaosmuffin's youtube page to learn stuff about the neutral game. It's been helpful but damn if Duck doesn't make it look so easy.
 
Decided to do some lobby play instead of quick match, it went much better. I played in some intermediate lobbies, and had a long set w/ someone (whose name i forget sorry) that played fukua/big band. I won more than i lost but most of the matches were pretty close either way.

Definitely cleaned up some of my execution but it's still a WIP. There are a few Filia resets that i have a hard time doing in online play but nail everytime in training. Annoying but I'll keep at it.
 
Spent a lot of time in training mode cleaning up my execution last night. I finally figured out the timings on Duckator's BnB combos for Val too, so when I'm finally able to do them in online play the extra damage and corner carry should help me win some matches I wouldn't have before.
 
Currently trying to figure out what Eliza assist I'll be using. butcher's blade (sekmet's medium attack) seems good EXCEPT that it costs a decent chunk of meter to use and scales my combo quite a bit. Though with my midscreen combos i'm generally going for corner carry rather than damage, so the second weakness might not matter as much. The meter use, however, could be quite a problem with the way i play currently.

With Val on point I relied on double butt in neutral quite a bit and I dunno if I'll be able to do that with butcher's blade. I thought about using osiris spiral but it doesn't have any reach so it's hard to make use of in neutral and I can use my current combos to confirm off of it.

I haven't played that many games w/ Eliza on my team yet though (just training) so I'll have to see. I might just need to adjust my neutral game to be less reliant on assists (or at least, learn how to use butcher's blade at the correct time rather than spamming it like i did w/ double butt)
 
Man I really wish I could make solo Valentine work but i usually get bodied against teams. Valentine is by far my favorite (and best) character, and always feel like once she dies it's very difficult for me to win. I can occasionally steal games with Eliza when people don't know how to fight her, but my Fillia is pretty bad and usually dies for free.

I've been trying to see if there are any duos with Valentine to give her more health while still being able to have an assist but I haven't found a duo with her I like yet. It seems like having a DP assist covers up Valentine's biggest weakness of bad defense, but then i miss having a lockdown assist. Lockdown assists make her pressure a lot better.

Maybe I'll look into some of the other characters I haven't really tried; so far I've only really given an honest effort to learn Double, Eliza, Parasoul, and Fillia.
 
Hey there, I pretty much run your team. My team has been Parasoul/Filia/Eliza ever since Eliza came out and I switched from Squigly anchor.

In terms of losing your point character I definitely feel you there, Parasoul is my best neutral game character by far and Filia's neutral has become sub-par with patching and addition of new characters, but I enjoy playing the Filia/Eliza shell a LOT.

One difference probably is that I run Carpenter's Axe instead of Butcher's Blade. I've honestly never even tried Butcher's Blade because I didn't like the idea of it with my team. Sure it's a good anti air and pressure tool, but my team doesn't need help exerting pressure when close and if Butcher's Blade does connect, your combo is scaled so much that you will have to reset early anyway to get any damage. Carpenter's Axe is slower but is just as invulnerable after the startup frames, hits overhead, only hits ONCE, and gives you a ground bounce for some great unique conversions for great damage with Parasoul or Filia.

Obviously this team is not one of "THE BEST" teams...(It lacks Fukua or Bella :P) but in my experience of playing it for a while now and playing it Parasoul/Filia/Squigly before it is solid. Updo gives you an anti-air, Eliza's ANYTHING gives you a mixup assist. If you want the all-purpose assist you can consider going back and trying to learn Bella for Cerecopter, since that's a lockdown and an anti-air to a certain degree.

After skimming some of your other posts my suggestion is to work on your Filia more if you wanna keep her around. Val looks like your favorite character that you spend a lot of time on; which is great, that's Parasoul for me, but Filia isn't as free as she used to be to learn. Her neutral game is weaker compared to Val with the assists you have and Eliza; you don't really have a go-to move that can beat anything, you have to know when to wavedash in on the ground, IAD, or airball to the ceiling and make that decision quickly. Once you're in it's just picking and choosing what crazy reset you wanna use, but getting there is the hard part that you have to work with. Once you REALLY get the hang of Filia your team will start coming together, since Parasoul is a decent battery for Filia and Eliza. And Eliza is pretty straightforward until you get to Sekhmet Shenanigans.
 
I hadn't thought of trying Carpenter's Axe. When Eliza came out I immediately swapped out double butt for butcher's blade in my anchor slot. I didn't really like double but really liked Eliza so I just switched them since i figured butcher's blade was similar enough for what I wanted (lockdown). I'll definitely look into trying Carpenter's Axe though, it still has the armor so I can still use it to blow through badly space assist calls/moves, and it seems like it SHOULD still let me continue my pressure when i get pushblocked. Val's ground dash is insanely fast so i have no doubt I'll be able to convert off of it.

I really tried playing Bella but she doesn't fit my style at all. I like mobility too much.

I agree that I just need to buckle down and actually learn how to play Filia. Her dying for free is why I lose a lot of matches I otherwise could have won. When I actually learn how to play Filia my plan can be just killing as many characters as I can with Val while building meter (since Val doesn't NEED meter that much besides calling sekhmet assists, finishing off characters, and the occasional scalpel super to punish unsafe stuff) then cleaning up with the Filia/Eliza duo instead of just praying Val doesn't die lol.

To facilitate this I'm going to play some games with Filia/Eliza duo for awhile, I think. As much as I love playing Val I need to put some time into the other 2/3 of my team (well, mostly Fillia. My Eliza is decent). It'll be hard but worth it in the end.

Thanks for the advice man
 
So I played a bunch of matches with Filia/Eliza and my Filia is a lot better now. I went back to playing the full Val/Filia/Eliza team and I realized I've started to like Eliza anchor less and less on this team. The butcher's blade assist eats up too much better and scales my combos way too much. I've switched back to Double as my anchor for my main team, and I'll be running Fillia/Eliza (or the reverse) as a secondary team for when I really want to rush shit down.

I was on a huge losing streak recently because i kept trying to play too aggressive with Val, but after some reflection and reading some posts from @ClarenceMage in the Beta thread about how Val should be played, I started playing with a much more defensive mind set and started winning way more matches (my Filia being better definitely helped too).

My double still sucks but 2/3 characters being actually playable aint bad.

I really need to get matchup experience vs. Painwheel and Peacock. They're probably my worst matchups atm.
 
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Effay said:
I really need to get matchup experience vs. Painwheel and Peacock. They're probably my worst matchups atm.
Against Peacock try sometimes using Val's ground dash or Filia's wavedash to get in. If you always try to approach from the air it's easy for the Peacock player to catch on to that and take that approach away with planes and items.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Filia's wavedash to get in.
Seconding this. It's really surprising how Filia can slip past plane with a short dash and a crouch.
 
I've been grinding my double more in training to get the combos and blockstrings ingrained in my muscle memory since I drop her shit all the time and has cost me quite a few games. I'm only doing barrel/teacup loops (except for BB, i'm doing Duck's combo on him) so nothing fancy, just functional for now.

I've also got the Val/double butt poison corner combo down pretty well. I still drop the s.HPxxvial toss s.lp link sometimes, but I have the st.HKx2 assist vial load part down which seems like the hardest part. I've yet to actually have an opportunity to land it in a match though.

Played some quick match games last night, lost most of them. Some of them were pretty close and some were due to dropping shit i shouldn't. The only part that was frustrating was getting matched against someone that's much better than me several times in a row but only picking a peacock/BB/double trio the first time, the rest he did solo BB (and still beat me every time but I came close to winning a few times). I was really hoping to get more matchup experience vs. peacock but i guess not.

I need to find more people to play in lobbies with and grind out the specific matchups i'm having trouble with. Quick match is really irritating sometimes and not really conducive to learning.
 
Mike Z's meter scaling post has made me realize I was going about this game all wrong by doing full undizzy combos every time i got a clean hit in. For some reason I had a mental block about no using resets too often. I felt they were gimmicky since your opponent can 'just' guess right and get out of them. I've also never played a fighting game where resets are as strong as they are in SG so that was another mental block Mike helped clear up.


I've now begun looking for and practicing resets for my team that work on different weight classes. For Filia I've found a few that are basically universal (usually have to just time the button presses differently; the button presses are the same) but with Val it seems like i need to do different stuff for each weight class. I've found some tricky crossunder/double crossunder stuff with her but on some of the heavier characters they're difficult, impossible, or very telegraphed. I'm still looking for Double resets that aren't just left/right mixups after j.HK.
 
low/throw opportunities, QCB assist call when pointblank, s.hk > j.lp > j.mk > grab...
They are basic but they work.

edit: as double, of course
 
Effay said:
Mike Z's meter scaling post has made me realize I was going about this game all wrong by doing full undizzy combos every time i got a clean hit in. For some reason I had a mental block about no using resets too often. I felt they were gimmicky since your opponent can 'just' guess right and get out of them. I've also never played a fighting game where resets are as strong as they are in SG so that was another mental block Mike helped clear up.

Quick note, there really isn't a right or wrong way to reset. Resetting people at full undizzy with air throw vs burst bait mixups is also legit, and if they take the burst bait, that allows you to be able to kill off of ~2 touches, which can be great, especially on last characters. The more resets you put in your combos, the more opportunities they have of blocking and potentially escaping (of course if you vary your resets you can decrease that chance, but still). Plus if you give your opponent lots of meter, that may make them want to reversal out of your mixups, and you can always just block the reversals and punish them for it. What kinds of resets you want to go for really depends on your opponent (and the character matchup).
 
I recently tried Beowulf (i was never really interested in him before, not sure why I am now but i digress) and he's a lot of fun. I like that his down K after a grab gives you so much frame advantage and a hard knockdown which lets you do another mixup that can lead to the same knockdown. As someone that plays Millia Rage in the Guilty Gear series, I like this a lot.

I don't want to abandon my Val/Fillia/Double team since I've put so much work into it and I can't/don't want to replace anyone on this team, so I'll start training a secondary team with Beowulf on it.

Right now I'm leaning towards a duo since i"ve been wanting to pick up a duo for awhile now anyway. My first thought was either Val/Beo or Filia/Beo since Val and Filia are currently my best characters. I dunno how well Val/Beowulf would work though. H chair throw is a good assist but I don't know if Val has any assists that really help Beowulf. Maybe s.mk assist for Val as a shitty lockdown?

I could see Filia/Beowulf working well, with H hairball assist on Filia.

Parasoul/Beowulf with L Tear Shot could also be strong, and Eliza/Beowulf could be strong too with either Butchers Blade or maybe even H Osiris Spiral.
 
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