Eliza Beginner

[Malphius]

I am new to fighting games and to skull girls, I tried learning Painwheel but her combos were way too difficult for me. I would like to try and learn Eliza instead. How is she for a beginner? I also haven't been able to find a good resource or guide for Eliza. Is there a guide out there for her? Also, what position does Eliza work best on a two member team? Any suggestions for who the teamate should be? I heard she uses alot of meter, so I guess last position?

 

[Stuff]

I would hope that you have played the tutorial first which has a tutorial on every character (a very basic one so you get an idea of what kind of character you're playing as).

As for team composition I can't tell you. You don't really need a team to get anywhere you just play with whatever you can right now and if you feel you need more characters then do it. I wouldn't recommend using a team right away because then you are learning two or three characters at the same time instead of just one.

Lastly I don't believe there's an Eliza guide (not a good one at least) but if you gimmie a sec I can link the beginners thread because before learning anything a character does you should get the basic idea of what the mechanics are in skullgirls otherwise you will find this game very one sided and unfair.

(For beginner characters I'd suggest Filia or Cerebella because they are fairly simple and very rewarding)

Okay:

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/beginner-resources-thread.242/
this is also handy
http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....tion-system-and-undizzy-beginners-manual.965/

I suggest you start with attack and defense. If you have any questions regarding the videos please say so.

Please enjoy the game!
(Skarmand will probably show up at some point and he'll be a much bigger help promise)

 

[The Dave]

Blood for the Blood Goddess! Your donation will be accepted momentarily; there will be orange juice and granola bars when we're done.

Eliza is an incredibly versatile fighter; in many ways she's fairly traditional, but at the same time she has an answer for almost any situation.

Pros:

• Fantastic anti-zoning tools (Throne of Isis, Weight of Anubis, armored c.HK)
• Strong, powerful hits
• Fairly long reach
• Good air-dash
• Very good air throw
• Almost shoto-like upper-cut and projectiles
• Sekhmet's unlimited armor
• H. Osiris Spiral's chip damage

Cons:

• Big, bouncy hit boxes
• Not very fast
• Combos aren't as long as some other characters
• When she gets hurt, she gets hurt hard. Eliza's been called "the Akuma of Skullgirls."
• Fairly poor against Marie on Nightmare

I find Eliza tends towards putting the opponent in their rightful place, which is kneeling in the corner of the screen. My basic string for her is c.LK -> c.MK -> c.HP -> j.LK -> j.MP -> j.HP -> air dash -> j.LK -> j.MP -> j.HP. j.MP can be skipped if the spacing isn't quite right. j.MK and j.HK have good reach and are often used, too. It's possible to do a full aerial j.LP -> j.LK -> j.MP -> j.MK -> j.HP -> j.HK, but I haven't found much use for it. You can get more information about Eliza's individual moves from her Shoryuken page here. Here's a combo video you may find useful:

Spoiler

About Sekhmet:

I've seen a lot of complaints about Eliza users over-using Sekhmet, which is probably why you saw that she uses a lot of meter. Sekhmet's nifty on account of the armored overhead and multi-hitting stabby move, but I like to use her sparingly. The bounce from Sekhmet's heavy punch can be used for a normal Eliza combo starting from c.MK, so I try to capitalize on that when I can. Also, well, I mostly forget Sekhmet's there if I'm not fighting Marie. Consequently, running out of meter isn't a problem for me. I particularly like to save up for Ultimate Showstopper -> Khepri Sun, since I don't have to sacrifice the big stab at the end of Showstopper for it to link.

RE Teams:

I find a team of two lets me keep my hits heavy and my health plentiful while allowing me to recover a character if she gets hurt. Since Eliza can get hurt by a few missteps, it's probably best to have her up front, so you can switch to a backup fighter and let her recover.

With that in mind, perhaps she's not the best starter character, but she's a fantastic second character, especially after you've figured out the basics of the game and know the situations you run into well enough to want counters for all of them. That said, with a little experience she's fairly easy to pick up and delightfully powerful to use.

 

[alexpi]

In general, you can put together a team of whatever characters you like. At the tip top level, you might need to make adjustments, but to hell with that. Just play who ya like.

Eliza can be kinda meter hungry if you do lots of sekhmet setups. If you don't, she doesn't need to spend a lot of meter. i mean, mid screen, she gets good damage.

For assists, Eliza likes stuff that either invincible (Filia's Updo, Big Band's Beat Extend, and Parasoul's Napalm Pillar come to mind) or forward moving lockdown (Squigly's Drag n Bite, Double's Hornet Bomber, Fukua's Drillationship). For what assists Eliza can deliver, the most standard options are Dive of Horus (overhead, hard to interrupt), heavy Osiris Spiral (ok lockdown, tons of chip damage), and Butcher's Blade (good lockdown, fully armored, but costs meter).

Her only true reversal is her level 3 (Khepri Sun). She can be interrupted out of everything else. She just has bad defensive options. If you wanna play Eliza well, you're gonna have to learn to defend well.

The big strengths of Eliza is that she can hit like a goddamn truck, especially once you start incorporating Sekhmet into your combos, she has one of the best anti-air normals in s.mp, she has looooooong reach, she can confirm off of almost any stray hit, Dive of Horus is a serious threat at pretty much any point, and she has some very oppressive pressure.

Check the stuff that Stuff talked about first.

Good normals to know for neutral: c.lk, s.mp, j.mk
basically nothing you do on the ground is going to be advantageous if they block.
Bread and Butter combo for her:
c.lk, c.mp, c.hp xx dive
dash forward, c.hk xx mp upper khat, hp upper khat
j.mp, air dash cancel
j.lk, j.mp, j.hp (restands)
s.lp x3, c.mk x2, s.hp x2 xx lk spiral
s.lk, c.mk x2, s.hp x2 xx hk spiral.

EDIT:

Dave, what the hell. Some of what you talk about is gonna get the boy killed. Don't use Osiris Spiral just for chip. It's -9 on block. Everyone can get a full counterhit punish on it. Eliza has no real projectiles unless you count the second hit of c.mp. Both Throne and Dive can be beaten by a hit and it won't eat the hitbox of whatever your opponent is doing. They're for combos and meaty setups. Her Upper Khat is a goddamn terrible uppercut. You can't treat it as one. They're good for PBGC and for getting in on zoners (sweep into hp Khat). Combo length doesn't matter. Period. And her combos aren't strangely short. Her BnB has 6 chains. Double's is 5 or 6, Parasoul is 6, Bella is 7, etc. You still have plenty of reset points. Her health is no different from anyone else. Everyone has the same health based on the number of characters on a team. I've got no clue what her abilities in story mode matter to actually playing vs other people.

 

[Woofly]

St.mp.

 

[The Dave]

Dave, what the hell. Some of what you talk about is gonna get the boy killed. Don't use Osiris Spiral just for chip. It's -9 on block. Everyone can get a full counterhit punish on it. Eliza has no real projectiles unless you count the second hit of c.mp. Both Throne and Dive can be beaten by a hit and it won't eat the hitbox of whatever your opponent is doing. They're for combos and meaty setups. Her Upper Khat is a goddamn terrible uppercut. You can't treat it as one. They're good for PBGC and for getting in on zoners (sweep into hp Khat). Combo length doesn't matter. Period. And her combos aren't strangely short. Her BnB has 6 chains. Double's is 5 or 6, Parasoul is 6, Bella is 7, etc. You still have plenty of reset points. Her health is no different from anyone else. Everyone has the same health based on the number of characters on a team. I've got no clue what her abilities in story mode matter to actually playing vs other people.

Sounds like I train against the AI too much:

• Sometimes the opponent blocks a ton and I have trouble getting past this. Osiris's chip encourages the opponent to stop blocking and do something else, creating an opening I can counter act.
• I was counting Throne and Horus as projectiles. Throne is particularly nice against Peacock.
• Khat's not the best uppercut, but it's better than nothing. I rather like it for spacing control. The timing's a little weird, but it can work.
• The Akuma reference was more about her being a glass cannon than anything Story related. I referenced fighting Marie because I do most of my practice against the AI, so I thought cleaning up the maid should be taken into account.
• I thought I'd seen a lot of people focus on combo length, so shorter combos would be a drawback for some people. Eliza's decent, but she's not Fortune or Filia.

Admittedly, my experience fighting other people is fairly limited. Still, the stuff I posted works for me. Though it'd make sense that I rely on a backup if "what works for me" involves me getting hit...

 

[alexpi]

Throne is anti-nice vs peacock. If you throne, she Argus Agonies. This breaks the throne and hurts you. Alternatively, if she's in the middle of a s.hp, she cancels into Bang!Bang!Bang! and both kills the throne and hits you. Horus is fine, but in the same way it's fine vs everyone. He's a good frame trap and if you have the right assists, you get mixups. Khat can be worse than a good uppercut. If you treat it like a DP, you're gonna have a bad time. You can use it in neutral, but it's hella minus so people can punish it if they're blocking. Shorter combos, in SG, are superior to long combos. You give significantly less meter away if you reset earlier. Nobody in SG is a glass canon. Some have worse defensive options, like Eliza does, but it's not like she dies if she gets hit once. You just have to learn defense as you can't rely on something like a mashed out SSJ to get out of a mixup.

 

[The Dave]

Throne is weird. The couch goes down in a single punch, but moves past projectiles. I just tested it with Bang!Bang!Bang! and Argus, and it moves past the bullets/giant laser and hits Peacock. Bang! and the laser still hit you, but the couch manages to interrupt Peacock long enough for you to get in and do stuff. It also stops Argus's many tiny lasers, which I think is the bulk of its pain.

From the wiki:

The Throne of Isis (↓↘→+LK) can absorb an unlimited number of projectile hits without breaking, does not count as a projectile itself, but can be broken by a carefully placed non-projectile attack.

(Side note: This may have changed. Marie's standing skeletons block the couch, but they can also be deflected, so...?)

Also, I think we have different ideas about how to use uppercuts. I'm probably corrupted by Sakura (Specifically her SF4 incarnation), who had little vertical mobility in hers but covered a lot of ground horizontally. Khat gives me brief partial invincibility, covers a good amount of land and air, and can be followed up by air-stuff. On the other hand, if you're trying to use Khat like Updo, Fiber Upper, or Rock 'n' Roll, you'll likely have a bad time.

 

[Malphius]

Throne is anti-nice vs peacock. If you throne, she Argus Agonies. This breaks the throne and hurts you. Alternatively, if she's in the middle of a s.hp, she cancels into Bang!Bang!Bang! and both kills the throne and hits you. Horus is fine, but in the same way it's fine vs everyone. He's a good frame trap and if you have the right assists, you get mixups. Khat can be worse than a good uppercut. If you treat it like a DP, you're gonna have a bad time. You can use it in neutral, but it's hella minus so people can punish it if they're blocking. Shorter combos, in SG, are superior to long combos. You give significantly less meter away if you reset earlier. Nobody in SG is a glass canon. Some have worse defensive options, like Eliza does, but it's not like she dies if she gets hit once. You just have to learn defense as you can't rely on something like a mashed out SSJ to get out of a mixup.

Does that mean low damage and easy beginner combos are not inferior to those really hard to excecute high damaging combos?

 

[Stuff]

Having a combo you never drop is much more important than having a combo that deals amazing damage. (That and this game is more reset orientated but yeah)

That said:

Learn a BNB (incredibly easy in a game as simple as sg)
Learn a few resets
Get experience in blocking and your character

You can learn those (high damage combos) later but take it easy no one is good in a day.

 

[alexpi]

i misremembered on throne. It does beat Bang!Bang!Bang!. though it loses to Bang!, teleport, and at best trades with SoID.

And yeah, basic combos are fairly easy to pick up in this game. For some characters, the easy stuff is actually pretty optimal. The only really tricky things to the Eliza combo I posted are to
1) when you do the sweep (c.hk) xx mp upper khat, it won't work if the sweep hit them while they were still airborne. It takes a little practice to get used to the timing, but you want the sweep to hit right after they hit the ground
2) when doing the j.lk, j.mp, j.hp chain to cause a restand, it's harder on some characters than others Again, you kinda just have to grind out some practice time to get used to it. The ones I remember it being weirdest on are Fortune, Double, and Valentine. I could be remembering wrong though.
3) the link of LK spiral, s.lk is a wee bit tricky for newcomers to fighting games. I forget exactly how long you have to hit it, but it's at least a few frames. You can go into training mode and turn on advanced attack data if you wanna see for yourself. just do a lk spiral, look at the number after the slash. Then do a s.lk and look at the number before the slash. the difference between the two is how many frames you have to successfully combo