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Eliza is broken

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skullh34rt

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Re: online vs

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but I don't care. I have pretty much stopped playing skullgirls because Eliza is broken. I should've paid more attention to the beta but how the hell did people not catch this? When I first started playing this game I immediately thought that Peacock was a huge mistake but I didn't quit because I wanted to support the game. I think the DLC characters are cheap and not fun to play against, although none of them are as cheap as a good Peacock player can be.

Until Eliza. I can't be the only one that thinks this. I can't play the game anymore. I got really into this game, and I tried to get other people playing, even bought other copies for people, and have spent many hours practicing and playing online matches. But since the Eliza patch, I have found myself playing less and less as I encounter matches against her. Today I only made it a couple of minutes. I had planned to spend a couple of hours playing tonight and I've been thinking about attending the tournaments, but I'm not going to anymore.

Eliza is so cheap and broken that I've just lost interest in playing the game. The DLC characters have gotten cheaper and cheaper, presumably to even the turf with newer players that don't stand a chance against a skilled Filia. Big Band is ridiculous but there are some redeeming factors. Not so with Eliza. She is the Akuma of SG.

So now I'm going to do something else, and probably not go back to SG in the next week. I'm not going to practice enough to attend a tournament. I'm just going to stop playing.
 
Eliza is fine.
 
I'm not trying to give an analysis. Obviously if I do that here people are just going to disagree. I just wanted to know if other people also think she is a cheap character that takes the fun out of the game.
 
Fair enough.

I don't know the names of Eliza's moves and I'm not going to go back in and check the frame counts and pixel boxes of attacks right now.

One of the things that really kills it for me is the super where the skeleton zooms forward and does a bunch of repeated slashes. This attack hits regardless of where the victim is vertically, which means Eliza can end combos with an attack that would normally not have a suitable follow-up to continue the combo, but instead she can teleport you back down to the ground and hit you with that super.

Eliza's attacks have way too much range and way too much hitstun. They do too much damage. The super armor is really cheap, especially when used as an assist. The super armor also is able to last way too long. Only if it had a much shorter execution period would I think it adds a dimension to the gameplay instead of taking away from it.

Eliza takes up too much room on the screen. She's just Big Band without any of the tradeoff.
 
So out of ALL the things she has, her super that she is MEANT To combo into is what bothers you the most?
K U S O G E
 
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Hey I'm just really curious! How many hours do you have on SG?
I also agree that the super is a strange thing to complain about. She doesn't get any confirms off it, the damage isn't brutal, etc.

Also you will get flamed harder for whining with no reasoning as opposed to discussing with reasoning and talking it out. Promise.
 
Of these, the only thing that I can agree with is possibly "she does too much damage", but I've thought that for a bit anyway.
Lady of Slaughter (the super) has NO startup invincibility, and is primarily meant for combos. Even if the hitbox were shorter, she'd be able to wait and combo into it anyway. :^P

The rest is you not knowing very much about how to play against the character. But nobody can change that except you. Try snapping Sekhmet, it breaks armor and can't be dodged like throws can.

(My design philosophy hasn't changed since the original 8, each of the DLC characters has strengths and weaknesses that are pretty well planned out.)
 
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rtLBVSA.png


It's not even that big.

Also, hello we have threads with hitboxes and a wiki full of frame data (though I'm unsure if eliza is completed in the wiki yet). We also have lots of people who can help you out so instead of saying, "Gee this character is broken" ask, "Hey how can I beat this character? She seems kinda tough don't you think, friends?"
 
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Wow. Thanks for the replies (it's an honor, Mike_Z).

Skarmand said:
Hey I'm just really curious! How many hours do you have on SG?

About five thousand. I'm in the top fifteen in the online rankings. I have spent most of the last year playing this game. I'm well aware of the available content.

I like to figure things out for myself. That's what makes a game fun. I don't want to have to look at a guide to figure out the exact and only ways this character is vulnerable. My point is that playing against this character ruins the game for me, to the point that I just put it down. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 
SonicFox5000 said:
you have dynamo
Can't prove this.
skullh34rt said:
About five thousand. My point is that playing against this character ruins the game for me, to the point that I just put it down. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

WOW! That's a lot of time are you sure its 5k? If it makes you feel better Eliza makes me feel super bitter 100% of the time.
 
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In general, whenever I find that a character may be too powerful, I try to learn how to play as that character myself.

If I win against every single person who isn't using that character as well... well, than that character might actually have issues*.

If I lose even once, I figure out both what I did wrong and what the opponent did right in that match. You learn quite a bit about how to beat your own character from both.

Did that impossible to stop spammable projectile get jumped over and blocked by a patient player? Did that over-powered super turn out to be unsafe on everything besides hit and have poor damage? I kept them in mind as I played, and used them against the character going forward. This is pretty much how I learned how to play against Peacock.

*That has never ever happened for me.
 
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skullh34rt said:
Wow. Thanks for the replies (it's an honor, Mike_Z).
Don't do that, it's not necessary.

Also to your first post - the Beta exists for a reason, and that level of contribution to an unfinished character is WAY MORE than players of any other fighting game get! If you didn't play it [edit: and you the game on PC, of course] then you can only blame yourself. Heh.

Annoying / not fun to play against is not the same thing as broken, either.
 
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After reading, I've had problems with the game at times. However, it wasn't with the characters, but players. Players who have either abused in the past, or better yet, worked with their characters to no fault. So, good for them...

Now on Eliza, I can see issues with her. For me it's her damage, especially when playing solo. Combo killer, when done well.

But I can't relate to much, not part of the beta... heh.
 
skullh34rt said:
Eliza is so cheap and broken that I've just lost interest in playing the game. The DLC characters have gotten cheaper and cheaper, presumably to even the turf with newer players that don't stand a chance against a skilled Filia. Big Band is ridiculous but there are some redeeming factors. Not so with Eliza.

This is so true, I was watching the top 8 matches from Evo last year and literally everyone was using Eliza =(


....

In all seriousness though, even as a "new" player I've found Skullgirls to be a ridiculously balanced game. I remember the first time I got completely shut down by a Parasoul spamming Hard Napalms. Went into training after the match and figured out how to get past it in, like, 5 or 10 minutes. Wound up helping a lot with getting past Peacock too. Used this to figure out how to get through a lot of other stuff as well. So... I don't really know what you've been doing over the course of your 2000 hours of play, but maybe you should use training mode more? Or perhaps learn to be more efficient with your practice/play time?
 
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Hi! Something neat I like to do when I have trouble against specific characters is setting the Training Mode AI to Nightmare and keep hammering at them until I have a better feel for how to fight them. This is how I was able to get over Beowulf's hurty grabs of pain.

Also... I feel a little bit dirty "betraying" one of my mains, but... Eliza's pretty weak against attacks from above. If you can avoid her air game (which, funnily enough, I tend to start with low attacks), you can beat her up pretty bad. An aggressive Filia, Squigly, or Parasoul are terrors to go up against, and a smart Cerebella can leave me in pieces. Even matchups that you'd think would be in Eliza's favor aren't necessarily so- I was utterly creamed by a couple Peacocks the other night online, though that may have been more my (lack of) skill and their clever cross-up combos of doom.

Oh, and then there's Fukua. Is there a place where I can rant about Fukua? 'Cause I really don't like fighting Fukua. My only criticism of the character per se is that she seems kind of repetitive in her attacks, so that might be the players and not the design, but still. Ouch. Hurty. Pain.

So, uh, maybe you could try her out.

Also, Albus and Horace have been having severe performance issues in the Beta, so if you want a weaker Eliza, you can always try it out. Girl seriously needs to talk to Horace about his flinching issues, it doesn't bring value to the team. I guess she had budget cuts and isn't able to buy H-man his anxiety meds anymore. It also explains the cheaper couches.

[Edit] Oh, and it turns out there's an Anti-Eliza Thread, for all your defilement of the blood goddess's needs.
 
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BlaineAC said:
This is so true, I was watching the top 8 matches from Evo last year and literally everyone was using Eliza =(


....
That's because the 'Top 8' at Evo last year you were watching was a POINT ELIZA ONLY TOURNAMENT. :P

The real top 8 was the day before. Which turned into top 4 due to limited stream time, and it had no Eliza's because she was not released <3
 
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Skarmand said:
That's because the 'Top 8' at Evo last year you were watching was a POINT ELIZA ONLY TOURNAMENT. :P

The real top 8 was the day before. Which turned into top 4 due to limited stream time, and it had no Eliza's because she was not released <3

*sigh* That was the (admittedly bad) joke, hence the "in all seriousness" after the ellipses ;) I am aware of the two different tournaments, there've been DLC point character tournaments since Squigly =] I don't actually think Eliza is broken either, or even that bad of a character to fight (though to be fair I haven't had to go up against too many yet).
 
moving this to the eliza forum
 
Actually its hinted at in the game how unfair eliza is.

Evidence: When eliza uses her level 1 air super (nekhbet breaker) on eliza, she says "You are broken!" (Ahad Alex, "Skullgirls: Encore")

This pretty much confirms it I dunno about you guys but lore is kinda essential to gameplay.
 
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I don't get how people so often go from saying "omg Skullgirls is broken what the fuck developers i quit" and when they get a response from Mike do a complete 180 into "OH MY HIGHNESS, THANK YOU FOR THE RESPONSE! WE PEASANTS ARE NOT WORTHY" *hyperbole*, it's so weird.

Anyway on topic, yeah I would agree that she is the Akuma of SG. If by that you mean any balanced/strong version of Akuma (3S/CvS2/A3/SFIV?) in that she is a glass cannon. Although I think her damage is too high, but Mike is reducing that in the next beta build (thanks!). I still think people need more match up experience against her to find ways around her tools and I can't comment on how that is going in the US, but we only have 2 Eliza players in EU and one of them is gallivanting all over Asia @Izzmo #traitor.

But yeah, um....get better at the match up? If you score a knockdown on her she can't defend from high pressure/mixups because of DP LP hitbox and she has absolutely nothing that is throw invincible outside of her level 3. Go for broke.

Edit - Also Fizz I am pretty sure she says that to any character, and I am pretty sure she is talking about their body being broken. I have no Eliza players to play against and I have heard that super numerous times......I missed the joke didn't I?
 
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Don't agree with the idea that Eliza is a glass canon. She is nothing like a glass canon imo
 
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She's not really completely a glass cannon but it is true that her defense, when compared to the rest of the cast, isn't great and is among the worst for the reasons Woofly says. That doesn't mean a good player will always get bodied on defense since you can always just make the right guess on avoiding setups. It's fairly comparable to Peacock, though Eliza has it slightly easier than her thanks to sMP being good.
 
fenster said:
She's not really completely a glass cannon but it is true that her defense, when compared to the rest of the cast, isn't great and is among the worst for the reasons Woofly says. That doesn't mean a good player will always get bodied on defense since you can always just make the right guess on avoiding setups. It's fairly comparable to Peacock, though Eliza has it slightly easier than her thanks to sMP being good.

Don't agree. St.mp, Iad, Dp hit invincible, level 3. What else do you need on defense? lol Valentine, Painwheel, Headless fortune, Peacock KINDA, squigly without charge have way worse defense than Eliza. Her defense is not worse in the slightest, it doesn't even come close to being the worst.
 
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you serious? in her (i don't know what her cat form i'll just super armor form) you can throw her to knock her out of it. i think snap back's work. learn to skull girls better. i'm just waiting for lobbies on PS3 to get back into this game.
 
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