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Evo and You / SG / the Community / etc

IsaVulpes said:
2) You need a LARGE community for this to work. Apex can host tournaments for 64, Melee and Brawl + all of these sold more than SG. Skullgirls simply couldn't carry "its own major".

This is a really interesting point, and I think a similar thing is possible if we pool together with other small communities. There's a lot of smaller fighters out there like yatagarasu, as well as some of the smaller anime games like dbfg, and I think some cross pollination would be fun. If we as skullgirls players learned other small games and nit our communities together, it would make it easier for to host tournaments, or create side events at established tournaments.
 
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Icky said:
I have not heard of this and google gives me the result of "Done Being a Fat Girl!" So I assume it's another shitty waifu fighter

You'd be right its denki bunko fighting climax (I had to look it up)
 
An exhibition or money match?

Ex. Mike Z vs The World Offline Edition
 
Hilary said:
Northwest Majors tho
Come blind yourself in the radiant beauty that is west coast's hair game
Is sg a main game like on stream and stuff?
 
No matter where we choose to do our "main tournament" two things are going to happen:

1) some people will still have to fork over Evo amounts of money

2) no one will go

Whereas our numbers have fluctuated in other majors, EVO has been consistently our best attended major. Whether we will be a main game ever or not depends on attendance to other majors, which has been generally piss poor (with few exceptions that still had worse numbers than Evo).

If people can only afford one tournament a year, do you really blame them for going to EVO?

Catch-22... We go to EVO only because that's all we can afford, but we won't be a main game if we only go there.
 
Hmmm..
I understand the sentiment, and ive been trying to make it to evo this year. I dont know if i will because work has been up and down and bills have gone up with 2 kids. But beung from so cal, one of the huge draws of evo (besides just being a general fan of fighting games) is that i can reconnect with my cali peeps.

Of course im not suggesting rpthat this dont happen cause of me... That would be bonkers, but what im trying to say is that there are other reasons to go to evo rather than just for sg.

And i think that is the biggest reason the suggested action can seem dubious. Evo sg gets alot of runoff from other fighting games, and it allows people to enter sg thatbarent only there for sg. Im planning on also being at evo for ggxrd. And have interest in some others fighters there as well.


This is a hard question to answer.

Evo is a no brainer that has a huge drawback (side tourny status, no/low stream time, wondering if side tournaments will be a thing and whether sg will get even small amounts of support like a reasonable amount of floor space for the 6-8 or so setups and 150-200 players that show up.

On the flip side, having top billing and guaranteed stream time for like all of our pools and top 32 and maybe even more cash prizes is also a no brainer... With huge drawbacks:

1.Evo has vegas as a big draw on top of the fact that it is the worlds biggest fighting game tournament, no other major tournament has this.
2. Will players come out to support the game if it isnt at evo...
3. Are we actually going to be a main game at this tournament...
4. We get alot less "runoff" from other fighting game tournies happening in the same venue.





The most obvious answer, though probably not a "workable" one, is to make 2 major sg tournaments a year.
One at evo and and one wherever we feel it would be best.

But this could have the effect of splitting the community at the tournament level as X top players can make it to evo but not the other tourny, or vice versa.
 
anime community has been talking about this for a long time too, about creating an Anime EVO. i think its something that needs to happen, but it doesn't seem like anything is happening.

It seems silly that massive amounts of people spend big amounts of money going to EVO, supporting a scene that doesn't give 2 shits about us.
 
An Anime Evo wouldn't be so bad. But, waiting for someone else to set up a place that's better for us doesn't sound ideal. I like the idea of finding the best place already existing place for us to gather, due to reasons like stream time and relative placement near our biggest existing local scenes and such, and make that our central gathering point.
 
Zidiane said:
An Anime Evo wouldn't be so bad. But, waiting for someone else to set up a place that's better for us doesn't sound ideal. I like the idea of finding the best place already existing place for us to gather, due to reasons like stream time and relative placement near our biggest existing local scenes and such, and make that our central gathering point.
We've pretty much accomplished that already. It's called SALTY!
 
shoryusatsu999 said:
We've pretty much accomplished that already. It's called SALTY!
That's a weekly, though...? Aren't we talking about the major we want to pick as a focal point?
 
We are, and I want to reiterate: I do not know of another major that gave SG the same amount of respect UFGT did. If combo breaker has Skullgirls as an official game this year, I honestly believe it has the highest potential to be the hypest SG event of the year. If we're talking about how best to blow the doors off of a major, I challenge anyone to come up with more fertile ground than Combo Breaker 2015.
 
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Zidiane said:
That's a weekly, though...? Aren't we talking about the major we want to pick as a focal point?
Yes, but SALTY! effectively does everything you said for the California area. Maybe we could try to set up similar events in other areas and then have them all meet up once a year for a big tourney. Call it SUPER SALTY! or something.
 
Night Phyre said:
I challenge anyone to come up with more fertile ground than Combo Breaker 2015.
I'm not opposed to Combo Breaker.

Link to the Skullheart thread for Combo Breaker: http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/may-22-2015-combo-breaker-2015-rosemont-il.6403/
shoryusatsu999 said:
Yes, but SALTY! effectively does everything you said for the California area. Maybe we could try to set up similar events in other areas and then have them all meet up once a year for a big tourney. Call it SUPER SALTY! or something.
We either show up to an existing major or not. An existing major gives us a lot of benefits, and making a new major for one game is really risky.
 
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Doing a major for one game is never going to be successful regardless of game.

UFGT already outdid EVO, i'd be okay with it happening again at Combo Breaker.

The problem with our scene is consistency, but considering how small the ACTUAL player base is its really hard to break that.
 
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I don't think consistency is really that big a deal, actually. So what if only a select few majors a year are considered noteworthy. We don't need to impress anyone or prove anything, we're doing this for us. As long as those select tournaments each year are willing to have us, I don't see the reason that can't be all we need. Not saying not to strive for bigger turnouts in more places, but I just don't think forcing or focusing on that issue is necessary.
 
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yea i can tell you that i wouldnt be interested in attending the "biggest SG tourney" of the year if it was held at an anime convention.

i hung out with a few anime fans a while back (to play fighting games) and i honestly couldnt understand what the fuck they were saying most of the time.
 
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I would love to see a Skullgirls APEX (aka exclusive major) and have thought of setting this up myself if the opportunity opened. However, I don't want to see EVO die, so I want that to stay.

Now and then we really should do something good and awesome for ourselves and not worry about trying to show off our game to others.
 
Dolfinh said:
I would love to see a Skullgirls APEX (aka exclusive major) and have thought of setting this up myself if the opportunity opened. However, I don't want to see EVO die, so I want that to stay.

Now and then we really should do something good and awesome for ourselves and not worry about trying to show off our game to others.

Not to burst your bubble (And I understand that many people on this thread already know this, but for the benefit of those who don't), but it is shockingly hard to just start a tournament exclusively for your game/series. The only reason Smash managed to pull it off was because our tournaments in the before-times were un-streamed, barely recorded, un-sponsored bare-bones events held in shitty sports bars in Connecticut. The Smash scene, at least in its early years, was one held together by the community with very little outside help for close to six years before MLG picked us up, so when we were dropped, it was easier than it would be for most to coalesce as a team and rebuild. Not saying that it would be impossible to do this for Skullgirls, but it would be way harder then it was for Smash (And it already wasn't a cakewalk).
Another thing in Smashes favour is that it comes in four (Now five) games with very different player bases for all of them, so it naturally gets more attendance then you would expect for such a specialized event. If I had to think of a way for Skullgirls to match this, then maybe some form of major for several of the more under-the-radar indie fighters, which actually sounds pretty cool, but would almost certainly be a complete nightmare to prepare, and it would be hard to convince sponsors to take a chance on games no ones heard of, and even after all that would probably only get a fraction of the attendance of an EVO or an APEX. I do agree that it may not be the best idea in the world to just keep chasing EVO's shadow and keeping ourselves cemented as the small fish in the huge pond, but making a specialized major doesn't sound like a very likely way of doing that.
 
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MMan7172 said:
The Smash scene, at least in its early years, was one held together by the community with very little outside help for close to six years before MLG picked us up, so when we were dropped, it was easier than it would be for most to coalesce as a team and rebuild. Not saying that it would be impossible to do this for Skullgirls, but it would be way harder then it was for Smash (And it already wasn't a cakewalk).

This is pretty much our situation now, though, but slightly improved because we can usually get in as a sidegame as long as we have a few entrants.

f I had to think of a way for Skullgirls to match this, then maybe some form of major for several of the more under-the-radar indie fighters, which actually sounds pretty cool, but would almost certainly be a complete nightmare to prepare, and it would be hard to convince sponsors to take a chance on games no ones heard of, and even after all that would probably only get a fraction of the attendance of an EVO or an APEX.
The first thing about this is that a hipster-fighting game major sounds awesome. Seeing Vsav played on a big stage while there's a bunch of Skullgirls, Yatagarasu, and Nidhogg setups sounds awesome.

The second thing is that we don't need to have numbers equal to EVO or APEX to run a good Skullgirls event, we would just want as much of the playerbase as possible to come out, play casuals, play in tournament, play bella ball, get food, and hang out. Hell, if it just matched the numbers at UFGT or NEC I would be happy, especially since the players who would be willing to come out to a Skullgirls Exclusive event would be the most dedicated ones.
 
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Sorry everyone, I'm kinda curious. I noticed at last EVO some people outside the US joined, did it happen to the minor tournaments too?
 
chickenwithtie said:
Sorry everyone, I'm kinda curious. I noticed at last EVO some people outside the US joined, did it happen to the minor tournaments too?
Unless you count some US players going to some Canadian tournaments and vice-versa, then not that I'm aware
 
WingZero (WC) flew to NEC.
Severine drove for like 11 hours from Us to Canada Vancouver for our poverty tourny.
I flew from an island in Canada to Vegas and I will do something similar for California I think.
Keninblack(EC) is planning on attending NWM(WC).
ChooseGoose drives from Oregon to Vancouver which is hella far picking everyone up along the way for our locals, frequently.

I guess if the question is "Are people willing to travel and pay money to play Skullgirls and hang out" the answer is something like "Yes when funds allow it."
 
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Skarmand said:
I guess if the question is "Are people willing to travel and pay money to play Skullgirls and hang out" the answer is something like "Yes when funds allow it."

I was thinking mostly about people from EU and Japan but yeah pretty much.
 
Dolfinh said:
This is pretty much our situation now, though, but slightly improved because we can usually get in as a sidegame as long as we have a few entrants.

The point I was trying to illustrate there was that, while Skullgirls certainly is under the radar, it is not nearly as grassroots as Smash was, which means running a Skullgirls only or Skullgirls focused tournament more difficult. While the FGC hasn't exactly given much to Skullgirls, it's gotten a hell of a lot more then Smash ever did, which makes going full indie that much more difficult.

Dolfinh said:
The first thing about this is that a hipster-fighting game major sounds awesome. Seeing Vsav played on a big stage while there's a bunch of Skullgirls, Yatagarasu, and Nidhogg setups sounds awesome.

It would certainly be very cool to see all the more unacknowledged fighters get there day in the sun, but it would be an absolute nightmare for prize money or stream sponsors, who I imagine would be more then a little hesitant to give money to an event that's entire purpose is to play games no ones heard of; not exactly a guaranteed haul.

Dolfinh said:
The second thing is that we don't need to have numbers equal to EVO or APEX to run a good Skullgirls event, we would just want as much of the playerbase as possible to come out, play casuals, play in tournament, play bella ball, get food, and hang out. Hell, if it just matched the numbers at UFGT or NEC I would be happy, especially since the players who would be willing to come out to a Skullgirls Exclusive event would be the most dedicated ones.

I think you misunderstand; I'm not saying that all EVO numbers are the goal, but that if our theoretical 'Skullgirls Super Tournament' was to happen, I'd be shocked if it got anywhere near the amount of entrants that the EVO side-tourney got. Is that fair? No, it's not, but more people are willing to go to EVO because it is big, and even if they like Skullgirls then they are just less likely to head out to the Skull-a-thon then just head to the big place that's in the casino.

I'm all for Skullgirls moving into a smaller, more welcoming pond, but I don't think that a Skullgirls only major would get very far off the ground. It's one of those things that sounds easy when you say it, "Oh, we're not getting respected by EVO, so we'll just make our own series, with black-jack, and Nidhogg side events", but in reality it is really hard to make your own tourney and get the word out, and even after that getting a good location and, most importantly, getting people to show up. Right now, if I had to give what I thought would be the best options, they would be
A) Keep up appearances at smaller events. Keep going to the Frosty Faustings and the Combo Breakers and other events like them, and move into there smaller pond so that we can be immortal top fish,
or, if the rest of you are dead-set on some new major, then
B) Hook up with the players of some other less well known fighting games and pray either one person throws lots of money at it or that several people throw slightly smaller increments of money at it.
 
I've been hosting my own monthlies for about a year now with skipping a month here and there because of A&C World's booking schedule, and I've gotten consistent numbers for SG (8~ players or more) and I also have had Nidhogg, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart 3, and UNIEL run at the same time which help bring out some people who would otherwise not come.

The problem gets to be that Nidhogg is a pain in the ass to set up and I'm usually the only setup for it. You can't really Plug-n-play unless everyone happens to have Xbox controllers/sticks (which we don't), so I've had to set up designated controllers and just use the in-game tournament mode, which is still fun, but it's difficult to run an actual full-on tournament with double elim and everything.

I've debated with myself about running Lethal League also, but I haven't even touched that game yet, so I don't want to go in unprepared when running a tournament and I'm guessing it has the same problem as Nidhogg for setup time.

Anything that's on a console is easy to run as I have a copy of every game I run and people can bring copies to make more setups. I've been mainly running Melty and AH3 as side games to my monthlies, with SG being the main game, all of which are free to enter (aside from venue fee). I've also thought about hosting GG+R but didn't want to overwhelm myself with too many games at once.

Overall I think it's been pretty successful and having only SG there would just end too quickly anyway.


As much as I'd like to go the Melee route and split off and do our own thing, we don't have the population to be able to do that. Smash gets 50+ entrants at any given tournament at A&C World and there has always been a lively scene for it across the entire Greater Toronto Area. Having an SG-only tournament is just not feasible as there are just not enough people to be able to justify doing so.

I think doing SG+other non-mainstream games is probably the way to go if we are to do anything on our own at all.

I'm +1 for making UFGT/Combo Breaker the "SG Major." I've only ever gone to UFGT and EVO in terms of American tournaments and SG always seemed more welcome and taken care of at UFGT over EVO (although EVO 2013 was really nice to us because of breast cancer research).
 
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chickenwithtie said:
I was thinking mostly about people from EU and Japan but yeah pretty much.
Me and Izzmo were the only people from EU who entered Skullgirls at Evo, as far as I know. The only reason I went there was because it was the biggest SG tournament and I didn't play any other games while I was there, so I'd be happy to go to Combo Breaker or something else instead.
 
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Chris G isn't perfect but he raises some interesting points that we should think about.


I don't know how accurate it is but there's some perception stuff going on.
 
I am down for this. as a person who rarely goes out to tournaments, I would love to know which tournaments is worth attending that has a good showing for SG. I am also down for the idea of having SG + other unrepresented games tourny as a major.
 
Having run CEO for years, I totally understand and respect that our numbers will suffer due to a combination of travel distance and Jebailey's insistence that it be 2 weeks before Evo every year. People just can't fly across the country and then immediately fly across the country again a weekend later.

That said, come to CEO, it's a cool time and I will absolutely make it worth your while.
 
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Broken Loose said:
Having run CEO for years, I totally understand and respect that our numbers will suffer due to a combination of travel distance and Jebailey's insistence that it be 2 weeks before Evo every year. People just can't fly across the country and then immediately fly across the country again a weekend later.

That said, come to CEO, it's a cool time and I will absolutely make it worth your while.

I really want to make it out to CEO this year if I can.
 
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Can someone do a tl;dr version of ChrisG's video? I don't care enough to watch over an hour of that guy.
 
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guitalex2007 said:
Can someone do a tl;dr version of ChrisG's video? I don't care enough to watch over an hour of that guy.
Didn't watch the whole thing since it's pretty boring, but here's my take:

Takes 6 minutes for any talking to happen.
Something about "There is only one FGC; Stop trying to split it up" or w/e.
Something about the anime community, waifus, dakis, etc.
"Stop hating on top players"
Flashes stack of cash in the camera.
The other guys riding his dick.

Maybe it got better after I dropped (doubt it.)
 
guitalex2007 said:
Can someone do a tl;dr version of ChrisG's video? I don't care enough to watch over an hour of that guy.

Just because you come from a game/community that has more VIEWS/CPM/Players doesn't mean you should be a dick about it when said VIP comes to your not so popular game to play a tournament. So making people new to a certain game feel like total idiots is not the way to go about getting new players. Help people learn the game if they seem interrested instead of IRL T-bagging and calling them out on being idiot for actually participating in "your" game. (Elitist/Pro Bias Oppinion/etc) Something like that?
 
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guitalex2007 said:
Can someone do a tl;dr version of ChrisG's video? I don't care enough to watch over an hour of that guy.

Basically like this:

-Chris G plays Persona where people keep saying shit to him and about his play and make him feel like he's not welcome in trying out a new game or supporting a small scene cause everyone kept giving him shit for it. Brings up SG example as well.

-When he gets asked about why the anime community is so small and what it can do to grow, Chris G says that he thinks the community isn't very welcoming to newer people and that if they want to grow then they should start by not making their already small community more toxic by being unfriendly to new players.

-Anime player walks in and starts counter-arguments. Denies that Chris G actually gets shit from the community (which in all fairness, he really does/did), and talks about Dustloop and other random things to make the Anime community seem friendly. Also REALLY hates Cross Tekken.

-Anything else is basically a slapfight where Chris G hates on Persona and the Anime Player hates on Cross Tekken/Marvel 3.
 
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I'm just wondering... what game is ChrisG talking about? Trying to watch that vid (about 10 minutes in), he's saying something about Anime games aren't big because it's fanbase is more into watching the anime or reading the manga that came out a long time ago? Which Anime games had Animes and Mangas? I know one or two of them are based on Visual Novel characters, and I guess Persona didn't start out as a fighting game, but I can't think of any fighting game that really has anime or manga about it (aside from, like, non-anime games)?

Edit: @19:20
"Why are you showing off your money?"
*shows off money*
*talks about how much more he has*
"This isn't a shot to the Anime communty"
*talks about how small they are*
*talks about things he's won despite not winning Anime tournaments*
"And I don't show off this kind of stuff cause I'm not a dick"
 
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Zidiane said:
I'm just wondering... what game is ChrisG talking about? Trying to watch that vid (about 10 minutes in), he's saying something about Anime games aren't big because it's fanbase is more into watching the anime or reading the manga that came out a long time ago? Which Anime games had Animes and Mangas? I know one or two of them are based on Visual Novel characters, and I guess Persona didn't start out as a fighting game, but I can't think of any fighting game that really has anime or manga about it (aside from, like, non-anime games)?
I don't think Chris G even knows what he's talking about. The only airdasher I remember that is explicitly based off of a manga/anime is the Fist of the North Star fighting game. Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax is actually based around characters from light novels (which are not manga, though most of the titles ended up getting anime and/or manga adaptations) and Melty and Aquapazza are based on visual novels, as you mentioned. None of the other fighters based on anime really count as "anime" fighters, not even the Dragon Ball Z and JoJo fighters.
 
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