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Fighting (in) Games vs Real Fighting - Questions, Comparison and Discussion

DukeMagus

DukeMagus

Not A Duke; THE Duke
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We all love fighting games, Be it for flashy moves and plasma throwing galore or for the impact of a good beat. From Virtua Fighter to Marvel vs. Capcom, Fighting games have an extreme variety in terms of what the moves represent and how will they be potrayed.

So, the idea is to open a space to discuss the moves, styles, mindset, etc. and compare it with real life martial arts and other forms of pursuing the noble goal of improving the body, mind and soul (While enabling yourself to break the face of a possible opponent... to each their own). We can also bring question, discussions, opinions, etc.


Since it doesn't speak specifically about any game in particular and shouldn't be that connected with gameplay or stuff, i think it's pretty safe to put it in offtopic.

With no other big considerations, Let's start.
 
Most fighting games (obviously) do an extremely poor job of conveying the feel of a real fight. The only ones that I'd consider to come even close are the ones that can end in a single blow (Bushido Blade, etc). The only real parallel with fighting vs fightans is footsies. In a sport fight, there's a lot of what you could consider, "neutral game." In your average impromptu fight, though, ain't none of that shit, lol
 
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Martial arts as a sports can be appreciated in two different ways: as matches and as move exhibitions. For one-on-one matches, I find really exciting to see some martial arts that relies a tad less on brute force and more on "clean hits". Olympic boxing vs traditional boxing and MMA/Valetudo/the things they use on UFC is a good example.


Sure as hell is far more boring without the strong blows, knock outs and taunting in the interviews, but you can clearly see that it isn't a matter of "punching hard", but "punching good". In a sense, it's like comparing SF Balrog(boxer) with Tekken's Steve Fox. The whole mindset is different: one relies on pressure and high damage, while the other depends on faster movements, dodging and positioning.

Then, there's the martial arts exhibitions, and these are a thing of beauty for entirely different reasons


When your own body's limits is the biggest opponent, the whole presentation becomes a mix rythm, balance, strenght and strategy.

Yes, strategy! When dealing with weapon exhibitions, an athlete normally tries to make use of his own weapon's momentum to make a better presentation while minimizing the force. IIRC, in these spears exhibitions, one important factor is the right moment to lift the spear after "slamming" it into the ground, in order to take advantage of any upward force the spear might present.


---

So, since i started it, might as well pose the first quesion and see if it moves on from there.

I know karate and many other martial arts have some "exercises" in the form of a series of moves and poses organized. In karate it's called "Kata". These series were perfected over the centuries so that every move you do actually teaches you something.

Yet, there are some moves in fighting games i simply don't know the inspiration or the use, even if the position seems to fit the theme.

One example is Akuma/Gouki's iconic movement

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And the stances he assumes when teleporting
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I'm almost sure i saw the shin akuma's teleport in the picture of a japanese statue somewhere, but for the rest, are these stances from a real martial art? if yes, anyone knows which Kata inspired these moves?
 
Wushu exhibitions (or any MA exhibitions) are roughly analogous to somebody showing off highly impractical, extra swag combos in training mode. Frankly, I'm not even comfortable drawing comparisons between form demonstrations and actual fighting. They have almost nothing in common.

Kata and other, "forms," are almost universally regarded poorly among the competitive fighting community (which I have not been a part of for some years, now). The key to success is to TRAIN LIKE YOU FIGHT. Punching and blocking empty air only serves to hurt your fighting ability, as your muscle memory will not incorporate actual resistance. Think about a FG training mode with no opponent. It would be entirely useless.

Makoto (SF) is the only example I can think of (off the top of my head) where an east Asian martial art in fighting games is represented at least somewhat faithfully. I have no idea what her fighting style is supposed to be, but it looks a lot like Kyokushin to me, and their whole schtick is to punch fucking trees (and each other) for years until they feel no pain. They do not focus on Kata or demos, they focus on direct, no-nonsense application of force. Her moves are stylized, but clearly inspired by Kyokushin.

Edit: how could I forget muay thai? I think that, while made up to be very stylized, many fighting games have admirably shown muay thai to be a direct, no-frills approach to fighting. Sagat and Adon aren't great examples, but many Tekken entries have shown a great focus on the art of eight limbs.
 
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Fighting games usually don't involve any items whatsoever, so if anything, they'd be more analogous to a sport fight. A sport fight usually uses a single type of martial art and each has their own ways to attack, block, and sometimes throw or grapple to earn points, knock your opponent out, or throw him out of the right.

However, the actual depiction of real martial arts in fighting games is seldom well-represented, I think. Everything is usually more stylized, and exaggerated, and many times the style doesn't even reflect a martial art at all.

In a real fight, and to a larger extent, war, on top of using spacing and techniques, you use your environment, the terrain, and any items on you or around you to give yourself an advantage over the opponent to reach your intended goal of the reason you were fighting to begin with.
 
worldjem said:
Fighting games usually don't involve any items whatsoever, so if anything, they'd be more analogous to a sport fight. A sport fight usually uses a single type of martial art and each has their own ways to attack, block, and sometimes throw or grapple to earn points, knock your opponent out, or throw him out of the right.
This is a good observation. Because a fighting game pits different styles again tone another with per-determined rules, I think the only real life analogue would be MMA. If modern MMA was a fighting game, Muay Thai, BJJ, Kyokushin, Judo, and Wrestling are all high tier, and so everybody who wants to win uses them. Don't be stuck using Dan-tier tae kwon do.
 
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PKStoopKid said:
When it comes to fighting games like in the case with Akuma, assume the rule of cool


Night Phyre said:
Wushu exhibitions (or any MA exhibitions) are roughly analogous to somebody showing off highly impractical, extra swag combos in training mode. Frankly, I'm not even comfortable drawing comparisons between form demonstrations and actual fighting. They have almost nothing in common.

Kata and other, "forms," are almost universally regarded poorly among the competitive fighting community (which I have not been a part of for some years, now). The key to success is to TRAIN LIKE YOU FIGHT. Punching and blocking empty air only serves to hurt your fighting ability, as your muscle memory will not incorporate actual resistance. Think about a FG training mode with no opponent. It would be entirely useless.

Makoto (SF) is the only example I can think of (off the top of my head) where an east Asian martial art in fighting games is represented at least somewhat faithfully. I have no idea what her fighting style is supposed to be, but it looks a lot like Kyokushin to me, and their whole schtick is to punch fucking trees (and each other) for years until they feel no pain. They do not focus on Kata or demos, they focus on direct, no-nonsense application of force. Her moves are stylized, but clearly inspired by Kyokushin.

Edit: how could I forget muay thai? I think that, while made up to be very stylized, many fighting games have admirably shown muay thai to be a direct, no-frills approach to fighting. Sagat and Adon aren't great examples, but many Tekken entries have shown a great focus on the art of eight limbs.

I know, i know. And i think it's curious and intresting to find the inspirations for some moves and fighting styles, see what they really are, etc.

Hell, even hadouken/Haoh Sho Ko Ken seems to be inspired in a real move


check around 20 s and compare with old man Takuma movement in the video below

 
I'm sure it's practical assuming your not trying to be optimal in your fighting, but more in the line of showboating.
Would be something if firing energy balls became a regular fighting art though. You would be better off watching Boxing/MMA games for a more realistic experience.
 
Most VF characters aren't too terrible about representing their styles.

Goh hands downs uses the most practical version of Judo, to the point it looks like extremely unpracticed sambo.
 
Teabagging IRL is harder.
 
Also there's alot more rush down characters irl. But while fighting games may not accurately portray real fighting, would you play a game that did? What if Skullgirls was like a real fight between girls, it'd probably be boring as ish as a fighting game. thats where the cool rule comes in and makes unconventional moves look practical
ie, everything Valentine does
 
guys guys guys. We're forgeting the most important thing! In a real fight, there's no awesome OST playing in the background depending on where the fight takes place! Who'd want to fight withput that?
 
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I use to cut off sound effects and music to simulate what the fight actually sound like in Skullgirls
 
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Even the unpratical stuff works IRL sometimes. and gives GREAT inspiration to make the exaggerated things we love to watch.

Take an OOOOOLD example:



This one became a classic, even if it's extremely hard to pull in a real match without having your chin smashed to pieces.

Add a bit of entretainment magic and we get Hajime no Ippo's dempsey roll (sonic jet sounds and flour punches with it)

(video starts for real around 20s)
now let's bring it to our medium, slimmed and trimmed for practical use in the game.



(on a side note, i think rolling thunder's full animation in SSF4 way too long. he could do just 3 punches when the camera changes and be done with it).


Then, you can go all out and see how it would look if real life was an anime:


A cheer to real fighting and the marvelous flashy unpratical things they inspired ^^!
 
Wait hold up, why did no one think to invite Zen to this thread?
Is he really so unpleasant? (Rhetorical question, I'm watching this thread now)
 
I take te blame: haven't invited anyone, just threw questions and saw now it'd turn out. Dunno if it was well accepted
 
Now that's a pretty title, but is this thread restricted only to Fighting Games?
'Cause I'd love to talk about Metal Gear.
 
One thing that does carry over from FGs - in a real fight spacing, speed and distance are really important, just as they are in FGs but that's probably the only thing that is similar.

If anybody is interested in learning about Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) I suggest watching this guy https://www.youtube.com/user/scholagladiatoria/featured


 
Denizen said:
Now that's a pretty title, but is this thread restricted only to Fighting Games?
'Cause I'd love to talk about Metal Gear.
Nope, all genres and titles. That's why I've added fighting (in) games. Some action games have cool moves to discuss too
 
DukeMagus said:
Nope, all genres and titles. That's why I've added fighting (in) games.
Oh I misread the title, sorry.

So anyway I think that Metal Gear is fantastic with it's portrayal of martial arts in militarized context. Of course it's a video game so it's stylized at times, but you can tell that Hideo Kojima did a lot of research to make sure that everything is accurately represented. It would take forever to go over all the examples and details of how said research was implemented into the gameplay and lore, and I lack the patience for it. So I'll just provide a video.
Actual combat starts at 4:00
 
Cqc actually exists iirc. Reminds me a bit of Krav Maga actually
 
Well yeah duh, Metal Gear didn't invent it lol.
 
Who knows. It is so important to the game lore thst could as well be an original
 
Speaking about CQC, it reminded me of another "military" fighting style. that got an intresting representation in games:

Sambo!



this one is really similar to WWE-level wrestlign at some points: Grab>hold>throw>immobilize

One of the famous sambo fighters in the games was KoF's Blue Mary (may God and SNK remember her someday, and give her a better voice)


I'd argue that Cammy's ultra 2 in street fighter is based on sambo too. the holds are pretty similar


so... what do you think?
 
DukeMagus said:
this one is really similar to WWE-level wrestlign at some points: Grab>hold>throw>immobilize
DukeMagus said:
so... what do you think?
I think that if you ever mention WWE in the same vein as actual wrestling again I'll pop you.
 
awww... forgot you were a Beoman. sorry. but the idea is similar, and hell, i like WWE and Lucha Libre a bit. Way more funny to watch than than UFC
 
No you've got it backwards, it's real wrestling that I love, not pro wrestling, and I hate it when people confuse the two. Me being a fan of Beowulf has nothing to do with it. Nothing in that Sambo video looked like it came out of the WWE, but a lot of it looks like things that I've practiced before on the mat.
 
I've always thought both Virtua Fighter and Tekken has pretty accurate with their portrayal of fighting styles.
 
Well, the whole discussion here is on what we base that. If you go from the perspective of real life fighting, Skullgirls is in an actually really bad stop. The stances have very distinctive openings, that anybody with the right skills could exploit. The here is however, I never got taught in my career of 5 years of fighting experience how to defend myself against razor sharp hair flying at me or somebody throwing anime to my face.

So to say the craziness of the character designs makes it idiotic for IRL fighting, but considering their circumstances they make sense. Best stances I have seen so far is streetfighter, but there are some moves where I just laugh my ass off. Like that one infamous uppercut whose name I cannot remember right now? Well gj one elbow to your abdomen and you are basically on the mat.
 
Actually, it was to discuss inspirations, styles you like and what it's brought from it.

a cat is fine too
 
whooops sorry, I misunderstood.
 
Both works, but if you're too focused on "real" fighting, you can end any discussion with rule of cool. Little is learned n all
 
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