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Filia Match Up Thread

PurpleChoops

PurpleChoops

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Painwheel Filia
I noticed there wasn't a match up thread in this sub-forum so I thought I'd start one up. In advance, I'm only an intermediate level player, so by no means do I know everything about this topic, but I'm going to be updating the OP with any info you guys want to contribute. To start off I'm only going to put down 3 with a couple reasons listed on each, this is just so I can get the thread up, because I have to leave soon but I want to get a discussion started on this as soon as possible. If you notice I missed something, or just that something I say is flat out wrong, let me know, I'd be more than happy to edit it.

Cerebella - This is one of Filia's better match ups.
  • Keep good spacing and pushblock often to prevent as many command grabs as you can, and punish her recoveries with IAD pressure.
  • Filia excels int the air, while Bella doesn't have many reliable anti airs or air to air options against such a fast character.
  • Bella does not have many good reversal options against Filia, she can stuff most of what Bella can throw at her on her wake up.
  • J. MP is easy to break armor with and confirm off of. Cr. MK is also alright at breaking armor, but it can loses to devil horns depending on how close you are.
  • Bella has a weird hitbox, so learn what adjustments you need to make to your combos.
  • One negative thing about this match for Filia is that on the ground she can't go past her medium buttons in block strings unless she wants to eat an US. For the most part stay in the air until you open her up.
Parasoul - This is one of Filia's worst match ups for various reasons, but there are some tricks you can use to win.
  • Parasoul has many tools that can stop all of the momentum in your pressure, the core of any Filias play. Napalm Pillar, cr. hp, j. hp, space control with tears, etc.
  • She can capitalize off any mistake she forces you to make with these tools with her ridiculous ability to confirm almost anything into tons of damage.
  • Counters another major strength of Filia, her resets. You can't do any ground resets without eating some sort of reversal, so only do them in the air.
  • Of course, these issues are made easier when you can cover yourself with a double butt assist or something similar, the trick is to never let her out of block stun and keep the pressure on until shes opened up then take the damage you can get off your BnB's without resets.
Peacock - Decent match up for Filia, her air mobility allows her to deal with Peacock a lot easier than some other characters.
  • Do your best to stay out of block stun, it only takes one triple gunshot for her to start up her zoning game, which will make your job much harder.
  • Learn to navigate around the obstacles she throws at you with jumps, airdashes and the different strengths of airballs, she has all the tools to move through Peacock's obstacle course, you just need to learn how and when to use your mobility tools.
  • Once you get in be ready for one of two things and know how to react to each:
  1. Tech her throw: The easiest to deal with of the three, a lot of Peacocks don't really know what to do when you get in so they hit the panic button and try to throw you. If you notice they do this every time when you get in start punishing her for it instead of teching.
  2. A short block-string: While Peacock is capable of some good combos, her block strings dont last long, and normally aren't safe. If they dont start jabbing you as soon as your in you can catch her with a IAD j.hp, but if not just block and be ready to punish a teleport or unsafe ender. Don't be afraid to try blockstrings you wouldn't attempt on other characters, Peacock doesn't have much she can reliably punish with besides her jab, which has a very bad range.
  • During Argus Agony, you can Gregory Samson after the beam before the darts start up, learn how to do that and convert off the wallbounce. Also a super jump, mk airball will net you a punish while shes recovering from the darts if you can get off the ground before they get to you.
Painwheel - An almost even match up because both players are going for the same thing off of a hit. (wip)
  • Painwheel has more damage and mix up options than Filia, so you'll have to do more guessing on her reset attempts than she will on yours, and you'll be punished harder for guessing wrong.
  • You have better priority on your air moves so be sure to take every opportunity to go air to air with her.
  • Both characters have the option to super in the air to keep themselves safe, but Painwheel's option is better because she can use armor than cancel into her own super.
  • You can cross Painwheel up with almost any of your buttons, including j. hp. So you can make all of your IAD pressure very ambiguous.
  • Airball and j. MP are great options, with fast multiple hits to take care of armor as well as being very hard to punish. Painwheel's only way to deal with this is to super cancel out of her armor, so she can punish you don't get to comfortable unless she has no meter.
That's all I have for now, I know its not extremely extensive but I will add to this, I really think this is one of the more important things to learn for beginners, they seem to be so focused on learning good combos and spending all their time in training mode, what they don't realize is 9k damage isn't worth anything if you don't have the knowledge of how to land it in a real match.

Thanks to:
Zevak for being incredibly helpful with everything related to this guide and always being there to answer a question or just provide a bit of helpful knowledge.
IsaVulpes for contructive criticism on my not so in depth Bella info and a couple helpful things about punishing Peacock.
 
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!!! Bella and Parasoul have no options against Air Resets. !!! There's no reason at all to ever give them the chance to retaliate.. don't let them land and put them through the blender.

Your Bella description doesn't really tell anything?.? It's a good matchup because.. .. ..well if you play it smart, it is! I'm really not sure how you got to that conclusion based on your notes

Parasoul has a lot worse options of confirming stuff into damage than.. uh, the rest of the cast (Pillar [usually] only combos into Bikes for no damage that costs a meter, raw j.HP leads to nothing, c.MP has too far range to properly combo after, instant stomp cant be followed up without assist, etc) and she has the worst damage in the game, so I'm not sure what the whole "confirms anything into tons of damage" point is about.
Her defense is questionable in general because she needs downcharge for her reversal and holding down at any point makes you rather susceptible to eating j.HK IAD j.HP j.HK and dying really fast.

Filia has a billion ways to deal with zoning (TK M.Airball, (TK) L.Airball, Sweep, Ringlet, general IAD mobility, TK Gregor), there's just not an endall braindead ladida one within them (you say this later yourself.. I can't follow you. Is a 'real way' to deal with zoning only one that provides a 100% success rate when you do it with eyes closed? Play Parasoul and complain about no options against zoning pls~).
If you have a read on a throw, why would you tech (=putting you back into neutral and forcing you to get back in) rather than doing IAD j.HP j.HK and just killing her
There is no "timing" where one can safely Gregor, it is always worth the meter if it works and never if it doesn't (?? I dunno what you mean with this point..), and I'd rather advise people to learn SJ M.Airball because that's actually a guaranteed punish (..though it will still only work against really really dumb Peacocks who randomly Argus without a charged Item Drop)

I agree with your closing sentiment, woo~
 
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Considering I acknowledged some of the information may have been wrong, that I was in a rush when I did this, and that it wasnt yet complete (like Bella's), you were kind of a dick about that. However, asshole or not, you did give me some good info, and some not so. I'll edit the stuff that was helpful in and credit you in a sec, thanks bro.
 
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I think Parasoul is the worst match up for Filia and that's because Parasoul's mid range game far exceeds Filia's. Parasoul's s.lp and j.lp are pretty much enough to shut down Filia's offense as Filia just doesn't have the range or disjointed hitbox on her attacks (especially in the air) to compete with them. However the only real problem this causes is you can't play brain dead and must be careful with jump-ins and iads, but you still have options like updo when parasoul is too aggressive and when you get past the mid range and are practically breathing on her, Parasoul can't do much other than pillar (maybe jab although it is like 7 frames so it may be hard to time between Filia's offense). Against Cerebella again air to air is not in your favor as her j.mp, j.hp as well as her j.lk, j.hk have the range to topple you and you have to be careful on the ground. If your predictable with iad-ing she can devil horn, excellebella, and tumble run>kancho.All three only hit up close (kancho can hit further but its pretty easy to see if its not immediate) so being mid range doesn't really hurt. The only mid range attacks Cerebella has is merry-go-rilla and titan knuckle but both are pretty slow so neither will catch you if your vigilant. I guess what it comes down to is parasoul destroys you at mid range and cerebella can handle you very well up close. Not much of a problem if you don't play brain dead or if they do.
 
Now any intelligent Peacock will just teleport every time you try to hairball past their projectiles or hold an item drop until you get too close. Honestly I believe your only real option is dash block. Careful with jumps because they just give peacock free teleports and when you're finally in use a lot of iads as peacock can't do much about them except block and jump so just punish accordingly. Although most online peacocks are brain dead so this is probably unnecessary work. As for Painwheel I think the match up is mostly in Filia's favor. Even if PW gets something started Filia can just updo her offense and resets, but PW can't do much aganst Filia's pressure.
 
I completely agree with you on that Parasoul match up, thanks for the specifics, I'll add those in when I have the time, and like you said, theres not much she can do besides Pillar in many situations, however this is a great option (especially online), but there are obviously ways to get around it.
As for Bella, it's true that many of her normals can beat out Filia's, and as you said air to airs aren't the way to win that match, ideally you should stay in the air and keep her on the ground because of her lackluster anti air options. Like you said, just don't play brain dead and get predictable because at that point you do become much easier to shut down, however between her many rushdown options and well placed assists as long as you are adapting to her defense and don't just mash IAD fierce and hope she falls for it eventually this won't be as much of a problem.
With Peacock, it's all relative to what types of zoning patterns she uses and what assists she takes, however in between item drops, the jump arc you get from a j. mp is threading the needle in between gunshots and planes. Also you're spot on about how you should stay in the air until she's opened up once your in.
Finally Painwheel, like I said I feel that it is for the most part even, but that it can swing both ways and I can see where you're coming from with Filias reversal, and the loss of Pinion Dash definitely didn't help her. I think they both have many, many checks and balances against eachother, ex: PW has hatred guard, Filia can armorbreak with j. mp, if PW can react fast enough she can super cancel, etc. I've been talking to some PW mains and they say its 6/4 her favor, and to some Filia mains who say vice versa, so I'm just gonna do some more research into it and update with what I find.
 
how do you guys deal with painwheel backed up by cerecopter? this one has been giving me trouble.
 
just to add to the filia-parasoul matchup.

Parasoul beats filia for free when Filia is on point, but when Filia is in the user position, and she is DHC's into with Gregor, she automatically comes into the fray with the best position possible for Filia, while dealing damage that leads to a situation that is extremely hard for Parasoul, so I think because the matchup has such extreme's its more even then a lot of people think.
 
evilben said:
how do you guys deal with painwheel backed up by cerecopter? this one has been giving me trouble.

When fighting this team played by someone at my level, I tend to do the following:
= Keep an eye on when they call the coptor, and try to go on the offensive during the assist cooldown period
= Use lots of anti-airs when PW is on point (I go for st.HP, j.HP and updo)
= Remember that PW cannot block when she's flying
= Block high a lot more than usual
= Try to punish the assist (though I can't always predict / time it correctly and my Filia tends to eat the coptor)
= j.HP a bunch against a flying PW, but not so much that j.HP is telegraphed from a mile away (still gotta work on this one myself)
= Chicken block when PW is on the offensive and you are not in the corner (not all the time, but every now and then). I notice the PW's I fight tend to really like to grab
= Try to bait the coptor so you can either punish it or force the assist cooldown
= CB with PW assist is less scary than PW with CB assist, so if you're desperate you can snap PW out for CB, but only if you can make that meter usage count (ie follow up with a meaty combo).
= I've been told you can air grab PW when she's charging in the air, but I'm not good enough to pull this off with any consistency

And if I fight someone much better than me.... well, none of the above works anyway since my gameplay is so bad. :)
 
Money said:
= I've been told you can air grab PW when she's charging in the air, but I'm not good enough to pull this off with any consistency

^^^^^ I do this all the time with peacock if they start charging in my face, its really good

Also along with grabs hatred guard gets beat by ALL cinematics (ie fenrir) along with fast multihit moves (like j.mp)

EDIT - Some extra notes
- Dash jump/adf -> throw/j.mp help extend the area where charging is dangerous
- Remember to ALWAYS respect the air super, most of your options get stuffed by this (except fenrir I think)
- j.mp may be safer than air grab as you can always adc back if you see that it wont connect
 
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Chairman Mao said:
Also along with grabs hatred guard gets beat by ALL cinematics (ie fenrir) along with fast multihit moves (like j.mp)
One thing to note (as this has happened to me on occasion) is that Painwheel can air-grab you out of your Gregor. So don't do a yolo gregor if the other PW knows this trick lest you see the air-grab -> combo -> you're down a meter AND life.
 
evilben said:
how do you guys deal with painwheel backed up by cerecopter? this one has been giving me trouble.
Money summed this up pretty well, only thing I'd add is take a defensive assist with your Bella (excellebella will take care of a lot of her pressure, or cerecopter just to make her respect you) and turtle for a little bit to feel your opponent out, and learn where they call their copter and stuff it.

Also I've tried grabbing some PWs out of hatred guard in the air and it works great, plus if you don't use up your airdash before the grab you can get some good mix ups after the follow up hairball.
 
Dime_x said:
stuff
Good advice (I always forget alpha counter) but this is the FILIA matchup thread not peacock you dun goofed
 
Chairman Mao said:
Good advice (I always forget alpha counter) but this is the FILIA matchup thread not peacock you dun goofed

HAHAHA lol, wow im stupid. I can delete the post if anybody wants me to or i can copy paste somewhere in a peacock thread... Lol dont know why i thought this was about peacock... Major brain fart.


I'll just move the post.
 
Money said:
One thing to note (as this has happened to me on occasion) is that Painwheel can air-grab you out of your Gregor. So don't do a yolo gregor if the other PW knows this trick lest you see the air-grab -> combo -> you're down a meter AND life.
also they can just air super
 
Is there a strong way for Filia to stop Cerebella from bouncing around single/double jumping doing semi-random j.MPs and j.HKs without an AA assist? I can challenge with jump/airdash j.LP j.HKs and L/M airballs but I lose more than I win (certainly in terms of damage output vs. cerebella j.HK combos, although I probably lose in terms of touches too) and updos/raw air gregors don't seem to pay off enough to justify the gamble. Trying to IAD bully to keep anyone from getting to jump height seems pretty free to dynamo/armor moves and still gets j.HK'd pretty often.

(I know the real answer is "get better at air footsies" but if there is some dumber shit I can do instead that I haven't thought of that would be great)
 
Hmm, whenever I encounter that situation, there's usually two things I would do:

1) If the bella is jump-happy waiting for me to go in, I would throw a ringlet spike on wherever she lands. Bella can choose to block it or eat the spike, but either way, it'll make the player think twice about Filia not being able to do damage from a distance

2) If the bella is jump-happy but actually attempting to come in, then I would counter with an updo. I don't know if anything bella has would counter the updo if both are in the air already, but nothing comes to mind (air command throw maybe?? not sure).

All in all, it sounds to me like one of two things is happening....

1) the bella is playing mind games with you trying to bait on your impatience to rush down. Although Filia is a rushdown character, this is probably going to be one of those "take it slow" matches in which you throw out updos and spikes and make the other player think twice about jumping around so much.

2) the bella is trying to approach from the air (maybe because the opponent doesn't know how to approach a Filia from the ground). If this is the case, then you can probably updo, or block high until they land before starting your own offense.
 
What can I do against Val and Squiggly? They're always above me, and by the time I can input a DP they've either hit me or crossed over me.
 
obregon said:
Is there a strong way for Filia to stop Cerebella from bouncing around single/double jumping doing semi-random j.MPs and j.HKs without an AA assist? I can challenge with jump/airdash j.LP j.HKs and L/M airballs but I lose more than I win (certainly in terms of damage output vs. cerebella j.HK combos, although I probably lose in terms of touches too) and updos/raw air gregors don't seem to pay off enough to justify the gamble. Trying to IAD bully to keep anyone from getting to jump height seems pretty free to dynamo/armor moves and still gets j.HK'd pretty often.

(I know the real answer is "get better at air footsies" but if there is some dumber shit I can do instead that I haven't thought of that would be great)


Bella's air attacks are basically like dps... For all intents and purposes some are invincible. How do we deal with invincible moves? We block and punish.

But that won't work for Bella's air attacks, so:

Bait and engage her as she lands. In other words, read her single or double jump pattern and try to make her attack wiff and then you iad against her just as she lands, but before she can jump again.

Playing against Bella in my experience with any character basically revolves around 3 things: keep her out via running away. Lock her down via assists and open her up. Bait her into a position superior for you and attack her.

None of those involve just going in or countering her... Trying to do either just gets you a j.mp to the face.

So... You shouldn't be trying to challenge her airnormals... You should be using your l hairball to run away from her if its possible (superjump) and baiting her into making mistakes.

Once she's been baited into making mistakes she will be hesitant to go in and THATS when you can go in unmolested without having to deal with her crazy priority.


Much of the time it's easier said than done, but I honestly believe this is the "proper"way to beat Bella and is the only way I beat her. Bait her to death and make her hang herself.
 
MysteriousJ said:
What can I do against Val and Squiggly? They're always above me, and by the time I can input a DP they've either hit me or crossed over me.
well I always anti air with cr.mp or s.hp whenever I read a jump in and most of the time I beat out unless I just mistimed.
 
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MysteriousJ said:
What can I do against Val and Squiggly? They're always above me, and by the time I can input a DP they've either hit me or crossed over me.

You can very often win in terms of risk/reward with air-to-air j.LP with a buffered j.HK for a full combo off the OTG. It has a very nice combination of hitbox and speed. Don't try it on the death-normals of Parasoul or Cerebella though. And of course the ultimate SG antiair which is just empty jumping into chicken block -> call assist for a full combo.
 
KhaosMuffins said:
Hi my Filia is garbage how do I fight against Double?
J.lp or J.lk buffered into a j.hk are good if you read a jump. A dashing HP can work too. I generally J.HP only as a zoning tool at long range.

I generally play a little restrained and hair ball around a bit, trying to punish any zoning attempts and applying pressure when she seems to be afraid.

If she calls catheads at the neutral game I might super jump and do the light hairball, than try to mix up on the way down (J.mp or wait till I'm right over her and air dash into a j.hk cross up)
 
KhaosMuffins said:
Hi my Filia is garbage how do I fight against Double?

this plus Bella.

Toad-Horns + Bomber seems kind of unfuckwithable. :(

match footage of me not knowing what I'm doing if it helps.

 
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Not particularly good with this character right now, so my question is: How do I face another Filia, particularly the ones who IAD j.HP a lot and annoy me with hell? Mirror Matches are probably hard to figure out for me when the main person ur fighting is.. yourself... I'm getting really tired of looking look a fool in front of those who kick my ass hard, and getting revenge & making a big comeback would make me feel very awesome :PUN:

Can I just Updo their faces (canceling into Gregor if blocked or whiffedto avoid punishment) or counterattack with j.LP, Ringlet, or an Airball? Unlike everyone else, I'm growing a little weary of j.HP and sometimes try to use other moves when Air Dashing like j.LP or j.MP, since I hate how the hitbox is above me and her legs stick out quite a bit during the move. I'm also prone to using meter a lot early to escape combos or end my own, and there usually isn't enough when my 2nd character comes in (is that ok?). I usually play a team of two with :FIL: on point and :BIG: on Anchor (should I switch their positions or keep it?). If possible sometime this weekend (preferably Friday), you can play against me online urself and tell me what I did wrong after the games, I'm probably giving false info and oblivious to the real reason I lose so much. I'd particularly love to play against someone who can use Both Filia and Big Band in the same team just to stay on the safe side.
 
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Funkermonster said:
Not particularly good with this character right now, so my question is: How do I face another Filia, particularly the ones who IAD j.HP a lot and annoy me with hell? Mirror Matches are probably hard to figure out for me when the main person ur fighting is.. yourself...

Can I just Updo their faces (canceling into Gregor if blocked or whiffedto avoid punishment) or counterattack with j.LP, Ringlet, or an Airball? Unlike everyone else, I'm growing a little weary of j.HP and sometimes try to use other moves when Air Dashing like j.LP or j.MP, since I hate how the hitbox is above me and her legs stick out quite a bit during the move. I'm also prone to using meter a lot early to escape combos or end my own, and there usually isn't enough when my 2nd character comes in (is that ok?). I usually play a team of two with :FIL: on point and :BIG: on Anchor (should I switch their positions or keep it?).
Hi,
typically when a filia does IAD j hp you got the following options however you must Pushblock before any of these are possible. A) c hp(?) B) updo (only if you know your opponent) C) just jump j hp(sometimes it will trade) D) fenrir

there are lots to deal with iad j hp filia's. don't switch your team. big band is just TOO good to be put on point. and if you put him on point and he dies you got a filia......with no backup vs......a solo filia. so you're essentially playing 1v1 with half damage. just add me and i'll do my best to help out.
 
c.lp beats Filia iad j.hp 100% of the time.
 
Funkermonster said:
I thought it was s.lp that could do that.
s.lp trades unless you're playing a character with a disjointed hitbox jab (Val/Parasoul/Band), in which cases you beat it outright.

c.lp universally for all characters beats iad Filia j.hp. The j.hp hurtbox extends mad far horizontally and the hitbox is only on the upper half of the character, both of which make c.lp a safer option vs. Filia. Combine this with safety against low-hitting assists (Val c.mk, Cilia Slide, Boat), duckable lockdowns (MK Bomber, Beat Extend), beating iad j.lk (and every move but j.hk) for the same reasons, and it's a really good defensive option against Filia. j.hk blows you up but the range is pretty miserable (Bella c.lk still gets under it way too often and there's almost no range where iad j.hk is a guaranteed hit that doesn't involve jumping from within the range of a good grounded opponent's button like Val's s.lp or Bella s.lk).
 
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Hey. How have you guys been handling Fukua keep away mixed with a lockdown assist?
 
Dreamepitaph said:
air ball L snap in lock down assist if possible. if not then reset fukua in the air
Yeh with a late airdash into something like j.mp its great, along with sweep cancel into updo for incoming jump in, but the former gets no real traction against someone patient enough to bait it out.
 
Man this sure has a lot of posts
Very active

sHK seems good vs Eliza in neutral, it checks her usual air approach angle while also dodging cLK?
Ringlet on the other hand feels really useless vs Liza; she tends to just jump through it..

Does anyone have tips vs Band?
This feels like a similar case as Parasoul, where everything he presses easily beats all of my tools,
but here it is on a character that doesn't die after being hit once.
 
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how are people dealing with upback robo into beam?
 
You can get under the diagonal air beam and raw HP her out of the air. ^ j.HP ADC j.LP j.HK can combo easily even off an HP that hits as a very high antiair.

The BB match gets less annoying if you go through figuring out all the stuff you can whiff punish with raw gregor that he can't super cancel. Like do a normal forward jump from long range to make a zoning L cymbal he was throwing out to catch a dash jump whiff, then gregor it. Unfortunately BB is designed around the idea that he gets great stuff in exchange for being vulnerable to short range unreactable overheads for full combos... which isn't giving Filia a new tool.
 
Unless you l airball you can't get up high enough to punish a robo kitty that jumps, j.hk, l beam. For punishing air l beam I just run up and grab them out of the air
 
A very high l beam doesn't intersect the ground until like half-screen distance and Filia is fast enough to easily go corner to corner in the time it takes Robo to get that high if she just surrenders the ground. Maybe with a couple assists like brass that can take up huge amounts of real estate she can keep you in the back half of the screen for the beam, but I don't see how it would keep you from blocking and then hitting the assist for a lockout. It doesn't seem like a sustainable pattern.

Maybe I just haven't played the guy that has figured out the right way to do it. As it is I'm much less afraid of any Robo zoning or runaway patterns than I am her using beams to make me commit to getting in and then putting me in a j.MP.
 
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