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Fortune General: The Pungeon Master

I actually like Fortune, and don't really run into her that often, aside from my sparring buddies who use her. Kinda wanna pick her up for my team :)
 
pickin this kitty up for a little bit :) @KhaosMuffins what would you suggest is a good route to learning her?

right now I am just kind of practicing mobility with head on and getting a sense of some normals (and a simple BNB, of course, with some simple reset opportunities within it), but what is a good way to ease into the head stuff?
 
GirlyStyle said:
pickin this kitty up for a little bit :) @KhaosMuffins what would you suggest is a good route to learning her?

right now I am just kind of practicing mobility with head on and getting a sense of some normals (and a simple BNB, of course, with some simple reset opportunities within it), but what is a good way to ease into the head stuff?
Wondering about headless stuff too. I feel like it's like learning a second character, so I'm doing the Elda Taluda thing for now.
 
I dont even play head-on fortune, just headless.
basically her resets/combos are a lot weaker, so you just go for more pressure w/ head and assists instead.
She has a decent low/throw game and some cross-ups though.

Be prepared to get nerfed a lot though ,she gets nerfed every patch.
 
The recent adjustment isn't so bad; it's an improvement against Double with some combos. Then again, I lack MU experience and am just basing this from training.
 
I always use it for crossups and when falling above my opponent, either out of cross under resets or in neutral when he dashes under me.

It's a bit fast though
 
People use it for cross ups some times, it can also be used well with tick throws. I personally don't use it because I'm never in a position to use it. Only time that I can think of when I rely on it is to get a button out to stuff close air pressure. Other than that, the most common distances favor j.lk, j.mp, or j.hp. There aren't any uses for it in neutral, and people like to use other resets. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

And one of the reasons its good for tick throws is the really short hit stun and blockstun which makes it difficult to use in other situations,to get the hit confirm you have to either hit it really deep or cancel it into a lk axekick.
 
OK so I've been poking around looking for inspiration and advice, and I've noticed a lot of people using air dash cancels after a j.HP. So, naturally, I go to the lab to see how to do it, and I am wildly inconsistent with it. I notice most times after a adc i drop the combo, but once in a blue moon I can link it with a j.MP. Naturally, since I'm always caught off guard by this fact, i can never follow it up with another j.HP. So my question is, is this a timing issue? Execution? Practice more? I think I have the general idea but any tips on simpler execution? I'm just starting to really delve into the crazy long combos I see a lot of people pull.
 
If you ADC by inputting forward twice, try to do j.hp > forward > forward > j.hp with a constant rhythm, and one immediately after the other.

A good way to see if you're ADCing correctly is to set your attack data to advanced in training, and just canceling the first j.hp. At the bottom of the screen you should see 12/+20 if you got it right.
 
Usually I try to ADC with f.PP. I'll just have to hit the lab hard and get it down right and try to keep it simple with j.HP > adc > j.HP. Baby steps I suppose.
Fighting games are hard :P
 
Personally I use button dashing for any adc, its faster and simpler to keep the rythm on one hand rather than splitting it up between two hands. If you had already learned to air dash with stick motions then I would say keep doing that because if you are comfortable with it there is very little difference, but seeing as you're new I suggest you keep using pp. One suggestion I have is to always use mp+hp to adc out of a j.hp because getting the cancel as early as possible is the most important part of canceling this move (and many others). You don't want to be thinking of moving your hands while trying to time the dash input.
Eventually this will all become muscle memory when you learn a bnb, but it is important for combo improvisation/wonky hit confirms. The generalized principle is that you dash with the two punch buttons closest to the button you just pushed, and if you want to dash out of a j.mk then use the two punch buttons closest to the move you plan on doing after the dash... Unless it is another j.mk in which case do whatever you want, use lphp for all I care.

Oh and there is no reason to hold forward for any dash, its the default direction.
 
GirlyStyle said:
pickin this kitty up for a little bit :) @KhaosMuffins what would you suggest is a good route to learning her?

right now I am just kind of practicing mobility with head on and getting a sense of some normals (and a simple BNB, of course, with some simple reset opportunities within it), but what is a good way to ease into the head stuff?
I completely missed this somehow, sorry.

Really, the best way to learn headless is to just play a lot of matches while only going headless. Headless shines in neutral, and you won't learn how to play neutral in training mode.
Oh, and learn air combo > axe kick > zoom > air super (I do this all the time so if you need an example, look at my match videos) and how to continue off of that. That combo route is crucial to getting damage with headless Fortune yet I see so many people zoom late and it kills me.
 
Ok this might sound stupid, and it is, but at the very beginning of learning headless I played against the ai. For a really long time I felt very uncomfortable playing headless because I wasn't used to controlling a puppet like that. And on top of that it was discouraging to dedicate throw away games vs other people as a way of getting the feel for how to play her. This is not any kind of objective insight, but trying out headless in a controlled setting with a simple moving target helped me start down the headless road. I still have a lot to learn about headless through playing real high level players, but it helped me out.

Oh and @KhaosMuffins how the fuck do I play headless vs peacock now because she hardly even needs to sacrifice any offense to render the head completely useless. I tried to play headless vs worldjem's peacock and it failed miserably because he plays fortune and know how to deal with the head. You can't actually use the head as a direct way of opening her up, at best you can move forward while she keeps launching the head and jump cancels away from it as soon as you move. Leaving the head in a useless position in the middle of the screen. Either you try and zoom nom towards peacock (which will either not work, let peacock pb to fullscreen, or get you smacked in the face while you do f.hp) or you zoom back to fortune and hope you can launch it back with getting CH in the process. Honestly head on is looking much more enjoyable vs her than it used to.
 
So I went back to the lab trying out some of your suggestions playing around with double tap forward and PP and I seem to be getting it a little better, but still rather inconsistent. I'm not getting the +20 on hitstun but rather I think +11 with a j.HP > adc > j.HP (don't know if this is a huge deal for combo potential or is my timing off and needs to be faster) but I am starting to slowly get it.

btw, I hold forward on an airdash b/c its just a bad habit i developed over the years, idk why I do it, maybe in my mind I don't want to accidentally do a back air dash, I just do it, one of those wierd quirks I have i suppose.
 
This is a dumb question but: What would happen to u if you tried to use Fortune for Zoning instead of Rushdown? If it's a bad idea, why?

Please Note: This isn't an idea I came up with. A friend of mine isn't a big fan of rushdown-based characters and he says he uses Fortune to Zone.
 
You probably wouldn't get anywhere because the head by itself is a vulnerable target and doesn't pose much of a threat due to low damage and massive recoveries, and the body of course has zero range tools. A friend of mine would literally c.lk spam-poke my Fortune's head all day if I tried to play keep-away, resulting in it being able to do nothing and forcing me to go in.
 
Stuff claims he does it but really its just holding upback and calling a DP assist. Fortune can't zone.
 
"Zoning" Fortune before Encore was just "I'm gonna keep throwing zoom > something at you and laugh when you hit the head because then I can just do it all over again while I dance around at fullscreen with Fuber." Now it's just "Haha what am I doing why can't I move my head why do I have to go near Cerebella now I don't want to I should just play Peacock gah damn".
 
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Hi there, I have an issue, rather I have a lot of issues but that's not why i'm here now.

I wanted to know, how works jump > guarding? I often want to do forward jump > guard, and half of the time I'm hit near the apex of my jump. That's quite confusing.

Same goes when I do jump forward+HP for Zooming the head, and then guard, I see the head going backward, how works the buffer? Could it be by negative edge I'm moving the head going to fast (no issues in training)?
 
KhaosMuffins said:
"Zoning" Fortune before Encore was just "I'm gonna keep throwing zoom > something at you and laugh when you hit the head because then I can just do it all over again while I dance around at fullscreen with Fuber." Now it's just "Haha what am I doing why can't I move my head why do I have to go near Cerebella now I don't want to I should just play Peacock gah damn".
So will you revise your statement that Fortune vs. Bella is a 7:3 matchup?
 
Some of you guys probably knew this, but I didn't until Winnie showed me. Zooming your head forward, whiff cancelling into nom, and then instantly hitting your head with c.LK or s.HK is a great way to move your head around.

Head on Fortune is so good, and IAD j.HP is the best thing ever. I think its safe to say she's far easier to play than head off fortune. Now that she loses her reversal when she takes her head off, sometimes I wonder if its worth doing at all. A lot of the times I would just rather have IAD j.HP and Fiber Upper.

That being said I think learning head off fortune is important, its just a lot harder to do now. I really need to work on my head off fortune. I'm going to try immediately doing the headspike combo when I get a hit and playing that way for the rest of the round to learn head off.
 
Try start of round H fiber into cat spike
 
Let's play headless, it's fun.

Headless tips: if you are trying to apply pressure with the head and the head is on your side, use raw nom instead of headbutt, if they block it then it will bring the head closer to you and even if they pushblock you have an opportunity to hit the head out of cooldown.

You know they are going to want to punish the head, so make the first move. Don't ever stay at full screen with the head right underneath them, it gives them time to think and press a few buttons. You can't play braindead fortune anymore, as soon as you see the head on the other side of the screen you have to change positions, you don't react to the head being punished, the default assumptions is that they will want to keep the head in hit stun. If they read your aggression and don't instantly punish the head then congrats you can play a few seconds of SDE fortune. Until then though, even if they only have to commit to the head for a second, that's still where there focus is. A huge part of footsies and neutral game is knowing where your opponents focus is, or where its most likely to be. I'm fine sacrificing a little bit of health on the head (its still like 2 resets into death anyway) to know where their eyes are looking at for 1-2 seconds.

Meterless ground throw conversions! Yay! All sorts of headless combo things that are great to have. Learning all these is easier than learning neutral game and having a solid grasp of her technical aspects will give your neutral game some bite.

So the worst position fortune can be in is when the opponent is about to get in your face and they already passed the head, its on the far side of the screen and you can't get it over to you before you are already under pressure, they don't really need to be afraid at this point because we lost invincibility on fiber. How about we figure out what our options are in that situation? I'll list off two things that come to mind. Preemptive fiber to go over them, or pbgc at the end of the blockstring to go over them. Even match up specific options are welcome. Spitball some things, try them out in matches (preferably against decent players). Lets elevate this sub-forum to something more constructive.
 
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Camail said:
Let's play headless, it's fun.

Headless tips: if you are trying to apply pressure with the head and the head is on your side, use raw nom instead of headbutt, if they block it then it will bring the head closer to you and even if they pushblock you have an opportunity to hit the head out of cooldown.

You know they are going to want to punish the head, so make the first move. Don't ever stay at full screen with the head right underneath them, it gives them time to think and press a few buttons. You can't play braindead fortune anymore, as soon as you see the head on the other side of the screen you have to change positions, you don't react to the head being punished, the default assumptions is that they will want to keep the head in hit stun. If they read your aggression and don't instantly punish the head then congrats you can play a few seconds of SDE fortune. Until then though, even if they only have to commit to the head for a second, that's still where there focus is. A huge part of footsies and neutral game is knowing where your opponents focus is, or where its most likely to be. I'm fine sacrificing a little bit of health on the head (its still like 2 resets into death anyway) to know where their eyes are looking at for 1-2 seconds.

Meterless ground throw conversions! Yay! All sorts of headless combo things that are great to have. Learning all these is easier than learning neutral game and having a solid grasp of her technical aspects will give your neutral game some bite.

So the worst position fortune can be in is when the opponent is about to get in your face and they already passed the head, its on the far side of the screen and you can't get it over to you before you are already under pressure, they don't really need to be afraid at this point because we lost invincibility on fiber. How about we figure out what our options are in that situation? I'll list off two things that come to mind. Preemptive fiber to go over them, or pbgc at the end of the blockstring to go over them. Even match up specific options are welcome. Spitball some things, try them out in matches (preferably against decent players). Lets elevate this sub-forum to something more constructive.

ACTUALLY controlling the head to midscreen and thinking they past it is the best thing EVER. for one and one reason only but before that i sometimes think the best thing to do with the head is NOTHING at ALL! you got the fucker midscreen. so no reason to move it. back to the reason though

usually people want to jump in. so all you have to do is do nom. since they think they will be at PLUS frames they will continue the attack and then get nom'd. another thing is doing air throw to nom > s lp >tick throw into zoom or nom.

it allows for more positioning into headless's optimal place which is corner.
 
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Well I already prefaced that you can't get the head over to you in time, and that isn't an uncommon situation to be in if they have already gotten passed the head. The head isn't midscreen, its full screen on the opposite side where zoom nom isn't even far reaching enough to make the head relevant. The point is to think about the options your body has when you have been completely isolated from your head and they are in a position to go on the offensive.
 
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Camail said:
Well I already prefaced that you can't get the head over to you in time, and that isn't an uncommon situation to be in if they have already gotten passed the head. The head isn't midscreen, its full screen on the opposite side where zoom nom isn't even far reaching enough to make the head relevant. The point is to think about the options your body has when you have been completely isolated from your head and they are in a position to go on the offensive.
i understand that. what i'm saying is that when you go headless you pretty much either keep the head midscreen or a few feet ahead of you. if the head is away from you just zoom to cat call and then kick if possible. otherwise you might as well start blocking.

on a different note though any ideas for Sneeze? cause i'm not liking that move still LOL
 
It's good for moving the head around stuff, due to being a DP.
 
My solution to losing headless Fiber Upper is to run Beat Extend :)

Zooming your head toward the opponent right after slide/El Gato or anything else connects to make it safe is something you should get in the habit of doing. By biggest issues with headless Fortune atm is actually GETTING hits with her.
 
Fun headless fact:

if you do blockstring > headbutt and the block low you can get a fuzzy guard with iad j.lk if you delay the j.lk for a little bit. It's pretty likely they won't absolute block the head.

fortune still has j.mp and j.lk and cr.lk and fiber for movement. That with the head makes her neutral game on par with head on at least.

Instead of using IADJHP (which really isn't even the best head on has) use iad j.lk xx mk axe kick, or if you got right above them use j.lp xx lp axe kick.

Launch the head with s.hk then do hk fiber. Its pretty good. Remember to hit your head to extend your normals a few feet. Also it makes slide pretty okay, don't depend on it but it can get hits depending on the match up. Match ups like double don't lend themselves to slides because her head punishes cover a ton of horizontal ground.

IAD throw whiff can't be used to fake highs because its so slow, but maybe it can be used to fake jump ins or bait them to go for an air throw. Who knows, this is just a guess. Go ahead and try it. I frequently use this in head on in neutral s maybe its good here too.
 
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FuLLBLeeD said:
My solution to losing headless Fiber Upper is to run Beat Extend :)

Zooming your head toward the opponent right after slide/El Gato or anything else connects to make it safe is something you should get in the habit of doing. By biggest issues with headless Fortune atm is actually GETTING hits with her.
well most prominently noted is the lack of JHP which is a great tool in neutral. to get around you use. with headless you approach changes. while you're in the air you have to know every single head moves' range is and when to use it. along finding conversions from every situation
 
What do you guys think of using sneeze more liberally as a reversal? Yay or nay? Its decent when they are very close to you. Is there any way to reliably combo off it besides just jumping up in the air and doing Feral Edge ASAP?
 
Ugh. seems like sneeze whiffs right over most characters unless they were sitting on top of the head. As for conversions, plain old j.MK xx axe kick OTG works on pretty much anybody, I think?
 
any sort of air normal xx lk/mk axekick then OTG, should probably work. then you can get in a ground rep, launch, do another normal into axekick into zoom feral edge, and try and pick up the restand for the final 1-2 chains as a sandwich combo.
 
So does anyone have any situations that occur often in a match or specific setups that they feel fortune has few to no answer to?
 
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