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Fukua matchups

Yeah, I knew that, but the DP still has invincibility and would allow a punish without having to expend meter. Then you could just recharge on the knockdown and be in an advantageous position with a full charge, right? Maybe I'm being too idealistic?
 
won't work.

if you to DP (MIND YOU IT HAS TO BE CHARGED otherwise NO invinci) the screen effect will wear off and they COULD tech towards you. if i were playing squigs i would go for the OPTIMAL punish that has ALOT of reset points instead of some measly dp hoping that the opponent won't tech to me as i charge
 
Well, I just checked out the frame data. Squigly's uncharged DP still has fully invincible start-up. However, you're completely right. Even moreso, in fact, because I wasn't aware that Squig's uncharged DP doesn't even cause a knockdown so she wouldn't really get anything as opposed to the full combo + reset points that she would get with SBO.
 
the dp itself is invincible. The time you have to pass through the stance is not.
 
Am having trouble against filia and parasoul
 
Negazaku said:
Am having trouble against filia and parasoul
Parasoul is actually quite an easy matchup when you know how to play it. She has to rush you down in the matchup because she can't hit you jumping back with HP air fireballs and throwing shadows. You can keep her going until you get into the corner, she has to take all the risks, you have to take none. Also she has very poor vertical mobility so she suffers against your j.MK and j.HK's great hitboxes. On offense, you can even avoid her napalm pillar reversal by using j.HK and cancelling into LP air fireball. She really struggles to stop you taking momentum at any position.

Fillia is a bit more of a straight up fight, she is pretty quick and even though her approach is a bit linear compared to other characters, she can still vary her vertical approaches enough to make you really think about your shadow/fireball placement. It is hard to reverse her pressure because she is all over you, so this matchup is mostly about keeping fillia at a distance and hopefully catching her air dashing with a MK shadow, or managing to land your own pressure/hit and keep the momentum up.
 
so any one has any advice of fighting fukua with parasoul. i can't seem to get in or get initiative, not sure where to stand on screen and im just reacting horribly to what ever game fukua wants to play.

The things i've tried with some success is to push block the fireball if fukua is trying to jump in with hk xx fireball or cross up since it pushes her away and if you try to push block the hk she's still in your face and your blocking and its a horrible time fore you.

The other thing is i've tried dashing behind her if fukua's just upbacking and fireballing, works decently if your fast enough and she isn't calling an assist like brass knuckles.

fukua combined with brass knuckles is pretty hard for parasoul since it stops a lot of your forward momentum in the air and on the ground and then your just stuck blocking and have to deal with what ever fukua wants.
 
para.....will have a hard time getting in. we can play sets but honestly para just needs to be attentive. she can't play zoning. so the match is dictated by the first 4 seconds. if you let fukua get into her optimal space(mind you she also has the tools to put you away if you try anything funny. also her j lk into j hk is a doozy) also fukua can use airthrow setups to disrupt para's charge to get out of resets
and shadows stop any napalm pillar bullshit along with j hk into fireball hovering over that allowing for punish.

its just not a good matchup. we'll play a set this afternoon @akindhobo
i'll use team D for the exercise and we'll see what's wrong with the matchup and i'll post my findings.
 
When Fukua is in Parasoul can't do much when she is doing her charges cross her up with a love dart
 
DeathArcana said:
When Fukua is in Parasoul can't do much when she is doing her charges cross her up with a love dart
well to be more specific. para can't get in. but fukua can. and the funny part is that if she tries pillar fireball sails over. so there's no fear of reversal
or even shadows absolve her commands. so it all comes down to either..... using assist smartly but kindhobo depends on reversal to dragnbite and plus it doesn't do much soooo yeah. on another note if you can close her in in the first 4 seconds. you absolutely must reset-carry to the corner to kill off fukua. otherwise RIP parasoul
 
How have you guys been doing against valentine? I have been zoning her but it gets difficult if she gets above me. Also I have been using armored grabs against her long long ground strings but if she grabs you
She gains a momentum. I do feel that divekick does give her trouble.
 
Temple NUT! said:
How have you guys been doing against valentine? I have been zoning her but it gets difficult if she gets above me. Also I have been using armored grabs against her long long ground strings but if she grabs you
She gains a momentum. I do feel that divekick does give her trouble.
you want to rush val. absolutely rush val. get to the air before she does and make her respect your normals. zoning and stuff is just not awesome. your cmd throws will be very healthy for this match up. people don't use the 4f cmd throw when there are tons of setups for it.
 
Yeah I have been working on some interesting uses for that throw. At first I thought "why would I every need this throw, the other one has armor". Then I thought "Fxxx that armor throw, this one is a awesome punish". Also I have been wondering what people think Fukua worst matchup might be so we could find ways around it.
 
Temple NUT! said:
Yeah I have been working on some interesting uses for that throw. At first I thought "why would I every need this throw, the other one has armor". Then I thought "Fxxx that armor throw, this one is a awesome punish". Also I have been wondering what people think Fukua worst matchup might be so we could find ways around it.


her worst matchup very well could be bella.....or squigs.

bella it sucks cause her whole presence makes it clear that if you don't throw your shadow and fireball properly......you WILL get reflected and YOU WILL get thrown. and once she's in. its not easy to get her off. plus with her resets it's annoying. i fought broseidon and i took the rounds but i can see the problem with bella immediately as i seen her reflecting my shit.

Squigs with charge makes it so you can't do ANYTHING without making sure it doesn't whiff cause then squigs has an easy way in. both are prone to resets in the air but fukua's normals will crumble to squigs in an air fight
 
Against Bella I have been using mostly fireballs and meaty shadows to keep her out but when she gets close I try to jump out(not usually a good idea), use shadow super(if you guess wrong you get counterhit), or push block and hope that she did a block string(the best option?). The most sucees I have had is punishing obvious jumpins with drill super(almost never risky if you react but dangerous if you predict).
 
Temple NUT! said:
Against Bella I have been using mostly fireballs and meaty shadows to keep her out but when she gets close I try to jump out(not usually a good idea), use shadow super(if you guess wrong you get counterhit), or push block and hope that she did a block string(the best option?). The most sucees I have had is punishing obvious jumpins with drill super(almost never risky if you react but dangerous if you predict).

No good.

if its a good bella you would have to play the game VERY VERY VERY cautious and i'm certainly not a fan of yolo supers such as your self.

fireballs will be reflected. that's the nature of bella and meaty shadows? on hard knd? i do that too.

other than that you can try and meaty shadow as she jumps in or use H shadow if she likes to crouch block.

to use fukua in this match you would actually have to explore your character inside and out completely and know how she's supposed to function and observe accordingly.

long range is where fukua can do stuff to piss bella off to do dumb stuff but it doesn't take much for bella to even get in. since at mid range she can tumble runstop which brings her up to your face. sure you can try and L shadow but if they're using it smart then its not gonna happen at all.

the point of bella being about to reflect your shit SHOULD scare you at mid range to even think about throwing a projectile. if not then you've been playing bad bellas
 
Fireball can be reflected but the range a height that I use(full-screen h fireball) usually give her little reward. But still she is like( what you like to throw stuff, reflects everything and moves forward). Midrange does make the reflect a lot more dangerous but close-mid range makes things much easier on her because a reflect leads to a combo and far-mid range leads to her moving in and forcing you to guess.
 
Temple NUT! said:
Fireball can be reflected but the range a height that I use(full-screen h fireball) usually give her little reward. But still she is like( what you like to throw stuff, reflects everything and moves forward). Midrange does make the reflect a lot more dangerous but close-mid range makes things much easier on her because a reflect leads to a combo and far-mid range leads to her moving in and forcing you to guess.
what you're forgetting is that once she reflects she can move in and ever better because once she dashes she can partition for a tumble run.....and that equals close up.

now you'd be facing 25/25/25/ AT neutral

will i get grabbed? will i get Low'd or will i get air grabbed.
like i said its not hard to get in with bella if all you're doing with fukua is just using TK Fireballs. if anything you ALWAYS want to have meter which you can through whiffed specials or blocked specials
 
I said in my post that Bella reflects every thing and moves forward. This means that of course she would ge in. Also all those options can be dealt with. if she cr.lk you can block and push block or H drill or armor throw. If she does throw you can hold up or shadow super. If she does air throw also long as you don't jump you are fine. She can do dynamo but you have options for th
 
Temple NUT! said:
I said in my post that Bella reflects every thing and moves forward. This means that of course she would ge in. Also all those options can be dealt with. if she cr.lk you can block and push block or H drill or armor throw. If she does throw you can hold up or shadow super. If she does air throw also long as you don't jump you are fine. She can do dynamo but you have options for th
which is cool except. your goal is to read bella right as she approaches. if you read her by the time she's in then you're screwed. further more after all of observing each other if bella is in mid range you ultimately must choose decisions and if you guess wrong will net you a good c lk. which if it hits you're not gonna up back which leaves you to grab.

H drill is cool but it shouldn't be the go-to and most certainly i would not use it in neutral.

i'm not saying fukua is screwed. but once she's in your face wailing on you. you better know how to block properly and read bella right cause then she get you in the vortex(bella has that?)
 
@Dreamepitaph
There are so much things wrong with what you're saying...
You beat a really good solobella player and you still feel the match up is "one of the worst"?

Ok, you can't zone her for afar. But she can't really punish you for that, she "just" gets in. She needs to be already kinda close if she want to punish. Deflecting Bella can punish full screen pea's bang bang bang or parasoul hp tear, does that mean the matchup is even worse for those characters?
Nope.

Bella reset hell : ...
Ok, 50/50s are powerful...but you can neutral jump j.hk.
C.lk will need to be really well timed to counter that, and if bella tried to grab, free heavy counter hit combo. Great for Bella...

And you seem to value tumble run highly. That is...ya know j.mp or c.hk beats it flat, right?
Or maybe you meant "she can tumble run when she's far to get closer armoring through projectiles", and then...understand that you could stop being braindead and sometimes stay on the ground instead of jump fireball, so you can tell a running bella how wrong she is.
Anyway, I don't see why tumble run is good in the match up.

Oh, and guess what : lock'n'loads on guard is -5, you have a cmd grab with 4f start up. Do the math.
 
dragonos451 said:
@Dreamepitaph
There are so much things wrong with what you're saying...
You beat a really good solobella player and you still feel the match up is "one of the worst"?

Ok, you can't zone her for afar. But she can't really punish you for that, she "just" gets in. She needs to be already kinda close if she want to punish. Deflecting Bella can punish full screen pea's bang bang bang or parasoul hp tear, does that mean the matchup is even worse for those characters?
Nope.

Bella reset hell : ...
Ok, 50/50s are powerful...but you can neutral jump j.hk.
C.lk will need to be really well timed to counter that, and if bella tried to grab, free heavy counter hit combo. Great for Bella...

And you seem to value tumble run highly. That is...ya know j.mp or c.hk beats it flat, right?
Or maybe you meant "she can tumble run when she's far to get closer armoring through projectiles", and then...understand that you could stop being braindead and sometimes stay on the ground instead of jump fireball, so you can tell a running bella how wrong she is.
Anyway, I don't see why tumble run is good in the match up.

Oh, and guess what : lock'n'loads on guard is -5, you have a cmd grab with 4f start up. Do the math.
well to be fair. its not that i run tumble run highly but ultimately i think the match comes down to Extreme observing. fukua cannot abuse shadows like with painwheel. nor fireballs. no one is going to to cr hk. and if they did they better do what i do and add an LK shadow after that. this is speculation of course and you run good points. i will need to re-evaulate the matchup. also people please learn to super jump and it will save you all alot of trouble.

actually i think i was bit ditzy.

her worst matchups would be val, squigly, filia.

val= just very mobile and difficult to pin down. 6-4

squigly= her charges are a notable threat and 9/10 you're going to let her have charge cause you can't do shit. 5-5

filia= the shadows give her SOMEWHAT trouble but she can get in and cross you up until oblivion 5-5.
 
About c.hk : fukua/filia c.hk is crazy good.
Tumble run is very easy to counter with it, trust me (what you may not be aware of is that stopping the run has a recover, long enough to get bella fucked if she use it on neutral)

About shadows/keep away game : I'm not sure to understand, it seems like you value her ranged game a lot, maybe even too much. Doesn't fukua have tools to deal with characters that can avoid it? It's not because someone can get you out of your comfort zone that it becomes a "bad" matchup.

About squigly : I'm genuinely interested. Is it because of center stage xx SBO? I admit it could shut down fukua's ranged game, but it's still dangerous for squigly : if she react a bit too late to a jump hp fireball, the opera won't absorb it and she will eat it, stopping her right away.
Could you be more precise about what you think of the matchup?

...
Wait, what am I doing on a non-bella thread?
Oh yeah, talked about Bella...
Why am I still here? I have no clue but I enjoy living dangerously, let's keep doing it.
 
dragonos451 said:
About c.hk : fukua/filia c.hk is crazy good.
Tumble run is very easy to counter with it, trust me (what you may not be aware of is that stopping the run has a recover, long enough to get bella fucked if she use it on neutral)

About shadows/keep away game : I'm not sure to understand, it seems like you value her ranged game a lot, maybe even too much. Doesn't fukua have tools to deal with characters that can avoid it? It's not because someone can get you out of your comfort zone that it becomes a "bad" matchup.

About squigly : I'm genuinely interested. Is it because of center stage xx SBO? I admit it could shut down fukua's ranged game, but it's still dangerous for squigly : if she react a bit too late to a jump hp fireball, the opera won't absorb it and she will eat it, stopping her right away.
Could you be more precise about what you think of the matchup?

...
Wait, what am I doing on a non-bella thread?
Oh yeah, talked about Bella...
Why am I still here? I have no clue but I enjoy living dangerously, let's keep doing it.
Most likely.

about bella its just that all characters can super jump their way to victory and adjust accordingly. needless to say i need to play another good bella to investigate methods. but so far my methods work against bella but i would like someone that mains both real well so i can trade insight.

squigly i fought @Luweewu

and pretty much if you try to throw shadow you can get j hp into sbo.

once she has charge you better be cautious with your shadows. also squigly's hitbox in the air is wonky and her double jump outclasses's fukua's. j lk will keep her honest. once squigs is in with a hit its pretty much reset on the ground and reset in the air.

fukua can do the same thing however sometimes getting in is annoying with j hp keeping fukua at bay.

fukua v squigs is primarily decisive on fukua doing something stupid and squigs gets in and could make fukua experience skullgirls 1player edition. she can play fukua's range game but better and since fukua wants to totally rush her down fukua would have have to take risk. however the main game would be to keep squigs on the ground since her options are limited with meaty shadows and the like.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
about bella its just that all characters can super jump their way to victory and adjust accordingly.
I'm not to understand what you mean by that.

But your points about squigly are true. You can't seem to be able to much if squigly decide to super jump double jump, she gets so high.
A stupid idea that came to my mind : would c.hk on reaction avoid squigly j.hp, punishing her from kinda far away when she lands?
 
dragonos451 said:
I'm not to understand what you mean by that.

But your points about squigly are true. You can't seem to be able to much if squigly decide to super jump double jump, she gets so high.
A stupid idea that came to my mind : would c.hk on reaction avoid squigly j.hp, punishing her from kinda far away when she lands?
it will low profile and you can cancel into shadows. but she can block in time and pushblock

also regarding super jump. once you super jump it avoids shadows and fireballs entirely.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
it will low profile and you can cancel into shadows. but she can block in time and pushblock
C.hk isn't fast enough to possibly catch her during the 2f landing recovery? Just wanted to see if you could counter with a simple hit, not asking for full combo after it :)

Or at least you can cancel with cmd grab (we bella now?) :p
 
dragonos451 said:
C.hk isn't fast enough to possibly catch her during the 2f landing recovery? Just wanted to see if you could counter with a simple hit, not asking for full combo after it :)

Or at least you can cancel with cmd grab (we bella now?) :p

she can cancel into divekick you know. so i would advise not even thinking of throwing out such a move against her
 
Dreamepitaph said:
she can cancel into divekick you know. so i would advise not even thinking of throwing out such a move against her
Didn't say c.hk should be done anywhere anytime. But at far range, she has no reason to cancel into divekick and reacting to c.hk is impossible. So reacting to a j.hp poke with c.hk, cancelled with lp fireball maybe to make it safe, will make you get close to her, either punishing her if you done it close/soon enough, or get her locked on the ground if she guards it with the fireball.
If she starts cancelling a j.hp mid air to try countering c.hk, it will have to be a read from her, so it means you can throw a jump-in or two because she will start doubting about using j.hp carelessly.

This is all complete theory fighting so I'm probably talking shit, but I like the concept.
 
dragonos451 said:
Didn't say c.hk should be done anywhere anytime. But at far range, she has no reason to cancel into divekick and reacting to c.hk is impossible. So reacting to a j.hp poke with c.hk, cancelled with lp fireball maybe to make it safe, will make you get close to her, either punishing her if you done it close/soon enough, or get her locked on the ground if she guards it with the fireball.
If she starts cancelling a j.hp mid air to try countering c.hk, it will have to be a read from her, so it means you can throw a jump-in or two because she will start doubting about using j.hp carelessly.

This is all complete theory fighting so I'm probably talking shit, but I like the concept.
i like your idea however this goes into more of playing the player and not the character. since we'd be in yomi phase 2/ counter phases

counter phase 1= fukua trying to get in but j hp from squigs screws it up.
counter phase 2= fukua does c hk to get in.

counter phase 3= squigs sees this and waits for fukua to do so within dive kick range and can do H dive kick.

counter phase 1 reset= c hk early into shadow m.

i don't think that's a good solutiion for the following. squigs will always be in the air LIKE ALWAYS. you try to jump in and guarantee that squigs will be there with you. if you try to c hk into shadows or fireball you will get j hp so there's that.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Good luck?? j.HP has 16f startup
16f start up for the first hitbox to appear. But how much time to be fully extended? Maybe it becomes doable.

Maaaaaybe it's time for me to get back to threads where I belong.
 
dragonos451 said:
16f start up for the first hitbox to appear. But how much time to be fully extended? Maybe it becomes doable.
i'm not one to try to test how practical that is. i'd rather just block so my actual gameplan vs squigs which is gettting her ass to the corner.
 
I hate val vs fukua. I wouldn't say it's a bad match up, but it is annoying. Pretty much jump back fireball stops any air approach. Luckily though I could just dash under the fireballs sometimes. However, Fukua can just resort to ground fireballs and shadows (primarily m shadow is the problem). For that I could cancel my dash into scalpels or ekg if i see her throw one or the other. I'm never close for the 8 frame hitstop to be a problem, so Fukua can just Bff on reaction. Once I'm close it gets easier. I am not fond of not having assists in this match up.

Parasoul is ok against Fukua. M soldier helps a lot (unless you call it on a shadow). The one problem I have is Parasoul is tall, so there is no dashing under jump h fireball.

Big Band........someone please help this guy. My only option is jump forward parry. Shadows are easy to deal with, it's those damn jump fireballs.

Squigly vs Fukua. Eh. not too bad but not great either. Daisy Pusher armor grab on reaction is something you should work on.

Fortune I don't know. Other than dash and block I got nothin.

Painwheel can absorb fireballs fly forward but what good is that.

Peacock. Those random jump forward Bffs get me everytime. Fireballs and shadows aren't too much of a problem though.

Double is free. flesh step kinda helps but you can always super fireball that. Maybe bandwagon? IDK I never tried just assumed it was stupid

Filia struggles but it's not impossible to get in

Cerebella. As Fukua this match up scares me. It's probably even but fireballs are not how you win.
 
Adeveis said:
I hate val vs fukua. I wouldn't say it's a bad match up, but it is annoying. Pretty much jump back fireball stops any air approach. Luckily though I could just dash under the fireballs sometimes. However, Fukua can just resort to ground fireballs and shadows (primarily m shadow is the problem). For that I could cancel my dash into scalpels or ekg if i see her throw one or the other. I'm never close for the 8 frame hitstop to be a problem, so Fukua can just Bff on reaction. Once I'm close it gets easier. I am not fond of not having assists in this match up.

Parasoul is ok against Fukua. M soldier helps a lot (unless you call it on a shadow). The one problem I have is Parasoul is tall, so there is no dashing under jump h fireball.

parasoul's ONLY hope is to pray that fukua tries to rush in.

Big Band........someone please help this guy. My only option is jump forward parry. Shadows are easy to deal with, it's those damn jump fireballs.'

once you learn to parry fukua will get pissed and try to go in with j mp which COULD or could not help you.

Squigly vs Fukua. Eh. not too bad but not great either. Daisy Pusher armor grab on reaction is something you should work on.

you can armor through daisy?!

Fortune I don't know. Other than dash and block I got nothin.


Dreamepitaph: depends. head on= 5-5 or 6-4 in fortune's favor she's got a lot more options to get in. a well placed shadow M stops this. headless? RIP FORTUNE

Painwheel can absorb fireballs fly forward but what good is that. PW just gets raped in the matchup. due to fireball, double jump combos.

Peacock. Those random jump forward Bffs get me everytime. Fireballs and shadows aren't too much of a problem though.

peacock with team= 6-4 in peacock. its bad to the point where i recommend switching when peacock is on the scene

Double is free. flesh step kinda helps but you can always super fireball that. Maybe bandwagon? IDK I never tried just assumed it was stupid

double is free

Filia struggles but it's not impossible to get in
filia i'm gonna say 5-5 both have the tools to deal with each other
Cerebella. As Fukua this match up scares me. It's probably even but fireballs are not how you win.

bella is more of playing the player. cause YOU KNOW she got deflect. so pretty much you do what fukua was designed for and that's to observe and use the particular move or tactic to counter

put my thoughts in the quotes
 
Suppose I should have said that better. What I meant was if you say try to hit Fukua on wake up with Squigly and the Fukua player does armor grab on wake up, learn to realize she is armoring through and cancel into daisy pusher. It's probably not necessary as the more expirienced Fukuas will block, tag, or drill on wake up if they are short on meter. Every Fukua player I fought do the armor grab at least once. (tamerstorm, winnie, and a few others)

The bella I was facing was Zidiane. I wasn't losing, I was just being REALLY CAREFUL.
 
Adeveis said:
Suppose I should have said that better. What I meant was if you say try to hit Fukua on wake up with Squigly and the Fukua player does armor grab on wake up, learn to realize she is armoring through and cancel into daisy pusher. It's probably not necessary as the more expirienced Fukuas will block, tag, or drill on wake up if they are short on meter. Every Fukua player I fought do the armor grab at least once. (tamerstorm, winnie, and a few others)

The bella I was facing was Zidiane. I wasn't losing, I was just being REALLY CAREFUL.
you damn right you better be careful.

i never used armor grab on wake up.. i dont like the idea of god-so-many-frames-on-startup to omg-so-much-whiffed-frames
 
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