Getting the most out of Training

[Broseidon Rex]

I want people to post stuff here that they can set up in training to improve a particular area. I'll start.

I've noticed in matches that my blocking/stick control is inconsistent. I also notice that I screw up teching grabs often and either don't see it coming or i mistime the button press. To start the combating of these issues, I went into training mode with the opponent as filia and set three recordings
1. Jump, Airdash, jHP, jHK, cLK, cMK, H Updo (dragon punch motion + HP)
2. Jump, Airdash, jHP, jHK, cLK, slight pause, grab
3. Jump, Airdash, jHP, jHK, H Hairball (quarter circle back + HK)
I set the recordings then to random and to repeat and did that for a while.
For now I was only focusing on teching the grab and doing the proper blocking. Later, I will work on pushblocking, inputting moves at the right times, Push Block Guard Canceling, and more. I'll start adding assists to mix things up once I got this down (valentine grab, parasol overheads, painwheel's cMP, etc).
I've already learned you can't tech throws if you are holding any direction with down (down+left, down, down+right) and the window for teching is not as strict as I thought.

So on a related note, does anyone have any suggestions for situations I can set up to practice high/low mixups or anything else?

 

[Money]

This is a great tip... I didn't know you can use the training dummy for random mixups like this. :)

Edit: After trying out your 3 strings, I went with this instead for string #3:
Jump, Airdash, j.HP, cr.LK, cr.MK

This way, I won't get too complacent about blocking j.HP -> j.HK because it's sometimes j.HK and sometimes cr.LK. This also makes it such there's a high-low mix-up AND a throw mix-up within the three recordings. #1 and #3 will make you think "Block high or low?" and if you guess that right, #1 and #2 will make you think "Block or throw?"

 

[Phantasm]

Once you learn push blocking, you won't have to worry about low/throw mixups off of a blocked jump-in.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Once you learn push blocking, you won't have to worry about low/throw mixups off of a blocked jump-in.

I'm not sure if that's 100% true in most cases, such as if filia comes in with a Airdash, jHP, jHK, if you try pushblocking the jHP, doesn't the jHK keep here momentum going forward?
The point for now isn't as much to learn pushblocking but to be conscious of stick control(am I actually blocking low when I think I am?). Still I'll keep that in mind though.

 

[Phantasm]

I play Filia and if my j.HP gets push blocked and I decide to go ahead with a j.HK. my j.HK afterwards completely whiffs and my momentum moves me forward so I can get punished...but most people don't punish ^_^

You won't have to worry about low/throw situations but against Painwheel, she can fly cancel her air attacks nullifying your push block...so just properly time another push block or prepare to eat high damage.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

You won't have to worry about low/throw situations but against Painwheel. she can fly cancel her air attacks nullifying your push block...so just properly time another push block or prepare to eat high damage.

Do you have any attack chain I can set up for painwheel to practice this? I've never played the character before so I don't what combos/resets she uses.

 

[Phantasm]

Hop to the Painwheel gameplay thread and you'll find some good stuff. I plan to pick her up after I level up my Valentine/Filia team.

From what's been thrown at me by people that know what they're doing with her, it looks like they're flight cancelling j.hk straight into more shenanigans.

 

[Dime]

I play Filia and if my j.HP gets push blocked and I decide to go ahead with a j.HK. my j.HK afterwards completely whiffs and my momentum moves me forward so I can get punished...but most people don't punish ^_^

You won't have to worry about low/throw situations but against Painwheel, she can fly cancel her air attacks nullifying your push block...so just properly time another push block or prepare to eat high damage.

use filias j.mp instead. if they thought it was j.hp and pushblocked early it wont do anything cause filias j.mp is multi hit. there is really no way to accurately defend against online filia except to completely guess correctly. or hope she messes up and does something slow. also, good filias really shouldn't mess around with her low attacks unless they are tick throws or unless they have already hitconfirmed an iad j.hp. the reason is because her iad attacks are nearly as good and where they are not, she can simply throw. think of any ground string filia can do and you are better off going for a throw rather than a low most times. that's how I play her anyways and I have yet to find any real reason not to play her like that.

 

[iLoli]

I play Filia and if my j.HP gets push blocked and I decide to go ahead with a j.HK. my j.HK afterwards completely whiffs and my momentum moves me forward so I can get punished...but most people don't punish ^_^

You won't have to worry about low/throw situations but against Painwheel, she can fly cancel her air attacks nullifying your push block...so just properly time another push block or prepare to eat high damage.

Yeah, that's not true.

With buttons that are difficult to pushblock such as Cerebella's crouching short or Filia's crouching short or well, pretty much everyone besides Peacock's crouching short, or certain air normals, low/throw is still a thing in this game, and that's not even talking about lockdown assists that are timed to come in when you're pushblocking the point or timed to be pushblocked against allowing the point to get in.

 

[Phantasm]

use filias j.mp instead. if they thought it was j.hp and pushblocked early it wont do anything cause filias j.mp is multi hit. there is really no way to accurately defend against online filia except to completely guess correctly. or hope she messes up and does something slow. also, good filias really shouldn't mess around with her low attacks unless they are tick throws or unless they have already hitconfirmed an iad j.hp. the reason is because her iad attacks are nearly as good and where they are not, she can simply throw. think of any ground string filia can do and you are better off going for a throw rather than a low most times. that's how I play her anyways and I have yet to find any real reason not to play her like that.

Lol I was just giving him an if situation, not indicating how I actually play. Also, the low/throw mixups we've been talking about are with us on the defensive end of it and the enemy coming at us via jump-in (and avoiding the MU by PBing). But thank you for your take on playing Filia.

 

[Phantasm]

Yeah, that's not true.

With buttons that are difficult to pushblock such as Cerebella's crouching short or Filia's crouching short or well, pretty much everyone besides Peacock's crouching short, or certain air normals, low/throw is still a thing in this game, and that's not even talking about lockdown assists that are timed to come in when you're pushblocking the point or timed to be pushblocked against allowing the point to get in.

Difficult or not, I'm referring to SUCCESSFUL (can't italicize on a phone so I CAPS'D) push blocks getting you out of pressure. And he didn't even bring up assists, which do make things more difficult, but a successful PB is a successful PB and it gets some heat off of you regardless.

I'll do something about the random change in font size due to my phone when I get back to my comp...or end up playing more SG as I'd rather do that than argue a simple case.

 

[iLoli]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but when you say something like "when you learn pushblocking you won't have to worry about low/throw off of a jump in" is pure misinformation and you need to clarify yourself or you will just perpetuate that already negative information.

 

[Dime]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but when you say something like "when you learn pushblocking you won't have to worry about low/throw off of a jump in" is pure misinformation and you need to clarify yourself or you will just perpetuate that already negative information.

Yeah cause when you learn to pushblock, people will learn to bait your pushblocks via cancels and multihit normals... Or like me they will just uncombo you with hit jump attacks that are hard to confirm off of air to air so they will just throw you as you land... I do that like 2-3 times a match... Get an air to air hk to hit with painwheel and then land with my opponent and throw them. So yeah pushblock won't alleviate any mixups from being seen... It just makes the mixups used against you more varied.

 

[Phantasm]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but when you say something like "when you learn pushblocking you won't have to worry about low/throw off of a jump in" is pure misinformation and you need to clarify yourself or you will just perpetuate that already negative information.

Well thank for stating that my information was very vague and asking me to clarify myself from the very beginning instead of saying I was flat out wrong. :D
I also assumed that "learning pushblock" meant timing the PB at the end of multi-hitting attacks...and that's where my lack of detail came in. /apology
All I'm trying to say is that a good PB will stop a low/throw situation that could otherwise occur instantly after a jump in...whatever happens 0.25 seconds later due to assists/cancels is a totally different conversation lol

Yeah cause when you learn to pushblock, people will learn to bait your pushblocks via cancels and multihit normals...

I totally mentioned that or something to that effect XD

...but against Painwheel, she can fly cancel her air attacks nullifying your push block...so just properly time another push block or prepare to eat high damage.

Or like me they will just uncombo you with hit jump attacks that are hard to confirm off of air to air so they will just throw you as you land... I do that like 2-3 times a match... Get an air to air hk to hit with painwheel and then land with my opponent and throw them. So yeah pushblock won't alleviate any mixups from being seen... It just makes the mixups used against you more varied.

Soooo, I was talking about low/throw situations being nullified off of a jump-in when properly PB'd because Broseidon Rex started talking about Filia's IAD j.hp j.hk being a problem (let's face it, if you're worried about that combination, then you're on the ground defending).... then we move to air to air hits and uncombos in which you can't PB because you're getting hit (if my assumption of what an uncombo is is correct)...unless you care to elaborate on this. I would really like to know because I plan on picking up PW soon.
Thanks.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Broseidon Rex started talking about Filia's IAD j.hp j.hk being a problem (let's face it, if you're worried about that combination, then you're on the ground defending)

I wasn't worried about that being a problem, more so that my blocking is a problem ie I'm in the habit of blocking low too early when being attacked from the air. I used Filia since I know she has really good air attacks.
However, I like the idea of using jMP and made another set of recordings. Wasn't able to do it too long today but it seemed pretty good. Starting positions for all three is about 2-3 characters lengths away
1: Jump, immediately Air Dash, jMP (for one hit), jHK (crosses up), cLk, cMK, M Updo
2: Jump, immediately Air Dash, jMP (2-3 hits), jHK (same side), cLk, cMK, M Updo
3: Jump, immediately Air Dash, jMP (all hits), cLK (same side), cMK, M Updo (does not cross up, no jHK)
This setup is testing the ability to block high/low correctly (block low too early, get comboed. Block low too late, get comboed) as well as consider the possibility of a cross up. You can keep the same distance for each rep by adding idle time to each recording so you can move your character into place or try different positions relative to Filia.

 

[GrinningMan81]

One thing I've started doing is making my training dummies the same as the characters I'm using. Then, when I've got something I think works, after testing it a few times on a training dummy set to tech and block after the first strike, I set the dummy to do it to me and try to break out of it or otherwise look for weaknesses.

Related question -- is there a way to:
1. Give a training dummy multiple options that it will randomly select from when you tell it to do its recording?
2. Set it so recording starts the instant you perform a move so there's no lag if there's a second between pressing the record button and actually doing the thing?

 

[Broseidon Rex]

1. Yes, record actions for each save state. Then in the save state selection option, go past 3 for sequential (it'll do recording 1, than 2, than 3) or random
2. Not that I know of.

 

[Money]

2. Set it so recording starts the instant you perform a move so there's no lag if there's a second between pressing the record button and actually doing the thing?

Whenever I train for such situations, I record myself doing three jabs in a rhythmic interval before doing the move in question. For example, if I want the dummy to do an updo immediately, I would record jab, jab, jab, updo. This also gives me time to get ready for the dummy's updo after hitting the playback button.

Think of it as "3...2...1...updo!" I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but it's the closest I can think of.

 

[RemiKz]

use filias j.mp instead. if they thought it was j.hp and pushblocked early it wont do anything cause filias j.mp is multi hit. there is really no way to accurately defend against online filia except to completely guess correctly. or hope she messes up and does something slow. also, good filias really shouldn't mess around with her low attacks unless they are tick throws or unless they have already hitconfirmed an iad j.hp. the reason is because her iad attacks are nearly as good and where they are not, she can simply throw. think of any ground string filia can do and you are better off going for a throw rather than a low most times. that's how I play her anyways and I have yet to find any real reason not to play her like that.

I HIGHLY disagree with a lot this to the point where I want to say no one should take this advice.

j.MP is good because people get used to pushblocking asap, but it is still great against late pushblocks because Filia can dash up to them and do a low/throw mixup at the very end of their pushblock animation (you will have to be cautious of PBGC in this case).

DO use Filia's crouching attacks. The easiest Filia's are the ones that autopilot IAD attacks because there's no need to really do more then one thing. Throwing in lows every now and then is how you keep your opponent on their toes and is actually what makes Filia such a huge threat. Filia's throws aren't that great because you need to sacrifice a meter or a hairball cancel + otg to do anything off of them midscreen, and usually result in very little damage with the damage scaling that follows it. What in god's name are you doing with a throw as opposed to starting with a low that is just as good?

 

[Dime]

I HIGHLY disagree with a lot this to the point where I want to say no one should take this advice.

j.MP is good because people get used to pushblocking asap, but it is still great against late pushblocks because Filia can dash up to them and do a low/throw mixup at the very end of their pushblock animation (you will have to be cautious of PBGC in this case).

DO use Filia's crouching attacks. The easiest Filia's are the ones that autopilot IAD attacks because there's no need to really do more then one thing. Throwing in lows every now and then is how you keep your opponent on their toes and is actually what makes Filia such a huge threat. Filia's throws aren't that great because you need to sacrifice a meter or a hairball cancel + otg to do anything off of them midscreen, and usually result in very little damage with the damage scaling that follows it. What in god's name are you doing with a throw as opposed to starting with a low that is just as good?

Not having to stop my offense. Going for A reset to get the good damage.

I use her low attacks, I just confirm into them instead of autopiloting them. They aren't bad to use as tick throws or if you play her with an assist since the assist can be called to protect her. But anchor filia generally has meter for throw conversions, and doesn't have an assist to protect her cr.mk on block.

Which is why I'm pretty sure that I said what I said, about ANCHOR filia. It applies Much less to point or second filia with her ability to protect her minus on block cr.mk.


-edit

actually no I didn't mention that it was anchor filia here. Oh well I can't be concise everywhere... I mentioned it for anchor filia.... Somewhere else.

And yeah I still haven't found any problems playing like that. It's pretty rare to not have meter with her and if she doesn't have any meter, then just bite the bullet and do a low cr.mk.... The point is to stay away from cr.mk as much as possible unless you have an assist to cover it.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

I like how I originally set up this thread to talking about making better use of training mode and it turned into a filia debate.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Another thing I just started using in training mode was the slowdown option. Originally used just to find cool animations, it can help land the harder part of combos and show you where you may be messing up inputs. A good place to start is at 50%, making sure your inputs are perfect at least 20 times in a row (ex for a shoryuken motion , seeing a + would be incorrect, + would be correct) before moving up in speed.

 

[Dime]

You can practice incoming mixups by cornering the training dummy, putting death allowed, putting health to 1pixel/10/20 percent or whatever you want,then save the state, then put health at normal.

The health percentage will stay the same even though you put it at normal (the characters wont heal)


You can now practice killing the opponent and having the computer come in perfectly and be able to do perfectly timed crossup mixups/airthrows /whatever you want. Just press the save state button again before you kill the last character and you will be returned back to the start to do it all over again.

Thos can also be done for practicing midscreen incoming mixups especially with characters like peacock that can do actual midscreen mixups.

 

[Hilary]

I like how I originally set up this thread to talking about making better use of training mode and it turned into a filia debate.

The most recent things I put into practice mode were

+ Parasoul 6.LP, cr.MK
+ Parasoul cr.MK, 4.HK

Next on the list is Squigly's j.LK, Dive, c.LK, 6.HP stuff.

I'd like a way to randomize whether Valentine's j.HP is a crossup or not, but that's on the list too.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

I'd like a way to randomize whether Valentine's j.HP is a crossup or not, but that's on the list too.

Probably can do that with timing. Ask Outlaw about that, he's notorious for it.

 

[Camail]

Distance and the type of jump are what usually determines if its a crossup. The other option is delaying the j.hp after an airdash so if you see a val above you and she hasn't hit a button you are gonna want to block the cross up on reaction.

If you can learn to recognize where she jumped from and her angle of approach it is rather obvious. Val can sj back, then dash j.hp vs any character at point blank range. From farther out she can jump/super jump forward, and from slightly farther away she can dash jump and cross up. There is also the possibility of backdash airdash crossups, and backdash doublejump airdash cross ups that reach farther than normal backdash airdash cross ups.

So what we know now is that from almost any midscreen distance she can cross you up, what you need to focus on is val's height off the ground and her angle of approach. These are 6 ways of approaching but the end result will always have to put them in a relatively similar position. The most common is going to be a simple iad j.hp so thats the first you should learn to recognize.

My advice is to do a save state and a recording, do a cross up and a non cross up from the same distance and randomize the recordings.

 

[joshb911]

Alright this is already a thing perfect! Time to make this relevant again :)

So one of the best ways I find to practice defense and alpha canceling is to have the opponent be parasol and set her to do 3 random things:
1. Pistol whip me (overhead)
2. Cr. lk, cr. mk (low low)
3. Cr. lk, back + s.hk (the stomp) (low high)

Not only is it fun to practice the alpha cancels but it also helps a lot with reaction times

 

[joshb911]

Another good thing to practice is to test resets.
So the way I test resets is to mash test them. So how do you mash test resets? Make your opponent painwheel, valentine, Filia, or fortune and make them do an air super as a reversal. I find that it helps a lot but that's just me :)