HATRED

[Kai]

So, controversy, yada yada yada, let's talk about it.

WARNING: Video Is NSFW

Critics say it's bland dreck dressed up in ultra-violence, while the developer says it's meant as a counterpoint to today's politically correct gaming culture. It was removed soon after being added to greenlight, but then added back shortly thereafter for reasons unknown. The publicity will undoubtedly be a positive for the developer, and some are speculating the controversy could take the national stage if a major news outlet cares to engage it.

Of note:

• This game may end up not being sold on steam, despite similar games like Postal on sale via the service
• The developer has loose (and I mean very loose: he Facebook liked them) connections to extreme conservative groups in his home country of Poland
• Sides are being taken that roughly follow the previously drawn (and totally arbitrary), "GamerGate vs SJW," lines, throwing more fuel on that carfire of a debate.

 

[Kai]

I'm interested in the way this game (as a concept) forces people to think about how they already play games like this, but with a thin justification like, "these guys are enemies of the USA," or, "you're a criminal looking to get rich on the streets of Los Santos." When you strip away that narrative, the actions are nearly the same, so what, then, is the difference? Some games allow you to be a mass murderer, but not feel bad about it, so that's fine?

Just a few months ago, Kotaku reported on the curious case of a youtuber seeking to kill every single NPC in Fallout 3. This young man was trying to kill everyone in the game, regardless of gender, race, guilt, or innocence. This undertaking was cause for introspection, they wrote, cause to think on the world and how you relate to its people. Only a scant month later, though, they would denounce HATRED, a game that has you seeking to kill anyone and everyone, as harmful.

I never felt the need to play Postal, so I doubt I'll go out of my way to play HATRED, but it's an interesting case for our modern gaming ecosystem. How far is too far? Should we ever be censoring games? Is this game saying anything, or is it just a mercenary shock tactic to get sales? And if so, is it any different than Mortal Kombat, the biggest of the, "shock = sales," games?

 

[TechPowah]

The only real controversy i'm getting from the game itself is how boring it looks =P

 

[Kai]

The only real controversy i'm getting from the game itself is how boring it looks =P

Granted, but I feel like this is a (popular) cop-out. There is something to talk about, here.

 

[ChexGuy]

you're missing the real things that are "of note": TRAILER AUDIO EDITS

Spoiler: OH HI INTERNET

Spoiler: THAT'S PRETTY EDGY

 

[dekillsage]

Wow if this game doesn't cost like 60 dollars I'm probably going to buy it.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

I want more games like Hotline Miami. I also want more GOOD games like Hotline Miami, this one is already looking like its boring. Maybe it will be fun when your wanted level goes up and more guys are after you?

I don't really get the controversy either. What you're doing in this game is what you've been doing in Grand Theft Auto for years. I guess the problem lies in that those are comedy games and this is serious and hits really close to home. I get that the subject matter is pretty tasteless, but at the end of the day I'm all for free speech and the questionable content in this game isn't any worse than other games like this. Like I said, going around murdering people for as long as possible is something people have been doing in GTA for years.

 

[Kai]

Wow if this game doesn't cost like 60 dollars I'm probably going to buy it.

What would you value it at?

I want more games like Hotline Miami. I also want more GOOD games like Hotline Miami, this one is already looking like its boring.

What makes you say, "boring?"

 

[agent13]

i'd buy the tommy wiseau edit in a heartbeat

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

What would you value it at?

What makes you say, "boring?"

Hotline Miami is fun because its you against a ton of guys. You're constantly out numbered and its super easy to die. As a result the game is very challenging. This game, you have to kill a lot of civilians before the cops come after you and it turns into that. Who knows, I could be wrong. Killing civilians isn't the part that's going to be fun/challenging, its the part where you hold up against the cops.

 

[ChexGuy]

What would you value it at?

Ten to fifteen bucks if you want to be really generous.

What makes you say, "boring?"

In my case it's the color choices of...not having a whole lot of them. Looks really dull. I need colorful feedback from my video games, yeah? Makes me not fall asleep.

 

[SanoBaron]

this game brought about the only time Tim Buckley actually did some GOOD satire

Spoiler

like, hell froze over because of this game.

 

[Skullmageddon]

I'm pretty sure I'd be just like the main character in this game if I didn't have any sense of morality and wasn't so damn apathetic.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

this game brought about the only time Tim Buckley actually did some GOOD satire

Spoiler

like, hell froze over because of this game.

There's a joke here somewhere. It's a shame Buckley can't write or draw to save his life. God CAD sucks.

OFF TOPIC I KNOW

 

[Muro]

Didn't know about the game (or maybe just heard the title and didn't investigate), despite it apparently coming from my homeland.

Now that I do, I'm looking forward to it. Looks refreshingly honest.

I've been watching the "moral" progress of GTA games for a while now. In GTA I-II-III you basically just kill stuff because you can. In Vice City you now aim for power, so violence is just a mean towards a goal. In San Andreas you supposedly do everything because you care about your family and home street, with pauses for going on dates, eating hamburgers and exercising. In IV you are a victim of the brutal world, caring about your cousin and aiming for a certain justice for past wrongs, when not dating or going bowling with your friends. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Time to cut the bullshit, drop the pretend game, admit we simply want to kill shit and do just that.

 

[SanoBaron]

I think the game is fine. I mean, the goal is to kill people.
like in manhunt.
which is also on steam.
and let's not forget how when people compare it to GTA
GTA makes it an option. rarely does hit have you kill a lot of innocent people.

There's a joke here somewhere. It's a shame Buckley can't write or draw to save his life. God CAD sucks.

OFF TOPIC I KNOW

the joke is that it's Trevor from GTAV (one of the most violent characters in the game, and playable) telling him off.
fun fact about Trevor, anyone who says he's a parody of violent Americans, are wrong. he's Canadian.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

I think the game is fine. I mean, the goal is to kill people.
like in manhunt.
which is also on steam.
and let's not forget how when people compare it to GTA
GTA makes it an option. rarely does hit have you kill a lot of innocent people.


the joke is that it's Trevor from GTAV (one of the most violent characters in the game, and playable) telling him off.
fun fact about Trevor, anyone who says he's a parody of violent Americans, are wrong. he's Canadian.

I actually think the satire was fine. I just wish Buckley could do it with better art and less words.

 

[Φ]

Can't people just play what they want to, I mean, even though this isn't my cup of tea... there wasn't any reason why it should've been removed.

 

[Ruin]

if I wanted a game where I could wantonly slaughter tons of people without a care in the world
I would just play Dynasty Warriors
and I can do all that with a bench as my weapon in Dynasty Warriors
so why should I even care about Devil may la Hedgekill: the gamening

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Can't people just play what they want to?

I'm sorry sir, but no. This is the internet, you must be new here!

 

[SanoBaron]

I actually think the satire was fine. I just wish Buckley could do it with better art and less words.

tbh, he actually used a lot less words than he's known for.
the joke went quickly, and the punchline is really well put together.
trust me, I know the problems of CAD.

Can't people just play what they want to, I mean, even though this isn't my cup of tea... there wasn't any reason why it should've been removed.

no, because the special snowflakes might get 'offended' or 'triggered'

 

[gold163]

GamerGate

You madman, do you even realize what you've done??

I want more games like Hotline Miami. I also want more GOOD games like Hotline Miami, this one is already looking like its boring.

To me Hotline Miami is overrated and pretentious. The game has good core mechanics and decent execution mired in the most boring story imaginable where omission is mistaken for subtlety and level design that forces you to play the game in such a restricted way that it's more frustrating than anything. It's like the Super Meat Boy of top-down shooters. Not bad, but not as groundbreaking as the hype would have you believe.

To be fair I don't see this being very different. But I can't see how people can say it looks like shit. As far as I'm concerned this genre of Robotron clones is very difficult to do wrong and Hatred doesn't look like one of the games that's doing it wrong.

Actually I'm glad someone brought up Hotline Miami. I really don't think the game was that great. It seriously has a lot of problems with the actual, y'know, game itself, but people are willing to look past the flaws because they find the narrative compelling. But if you don't, then what does the game have to offer you? Spec Ops: The Line is the same thing. It's a very interesting game. Just not a very good one (and not a bad one, either).

You know what? I'd argue that Hatred and The Line aren't so different from a conceptual standpoint after all. Just that The Line takes so much influence from Vietnam War films that it gives "critics" a wonderful shorthand to discussing the game's plot.

Hell, even Hatred gets pretentious in the very first trailer, but I suppose it has to be. I don't need to know what the guy is thinking. I just want to kill some dudes; we both want the same thing so why the whole song and dance?

Well, I have one explanation for this: the devs see through "video game criticism" as much as many of their prospective customers do and are just doing this for the controversy. Because it's always funny to watch some "cultured" idiot ramble about how video game violence has a deterministic net negative effect on society while simultaneously how issues as complex as sexuality and the nature of political power have clear-cut moral definitions and are such rich veins of storytelling that video games must talk about them in the same way every time.

On the subject of whether the game is tasteless in a way other games aren't... again, we have examples to point to precedent for these kinds of games existing in the first place. Grand Theft Auto is a good one, especially in the first two games where you're given zero pretense as to why you should be committing horrible acts -- you don't need one. Just get points. Postal is probably going to be the one that gets thrown around the most because it's the one Hatred resembles the most highly. Most people who played Postal will tell you it was a shitty game, but we're at the point where anybody can fire up Unity and make a competent top-down shooter if they wanted to in a matter of months. Again, this genre is difficult to get wrong. The Crusader games get honorable mention.

Can't people just play what they want to, I mean, even though this isn't my cup of tea... there wasn't any reason why it should've been removed.

How dare you suggest that someone else's differing limits on taste are as valid as mine!

 

[Xephyr]

Since everyone has talked gameplay so far, let me try to talk about the stuff NightPhyre was saying, the social aspect.

In trying to figure out a side to take on this I found it REALLY hard to actually justify a true side on this. The first thing I thought of when I saw this trailer when it came out is "It's GTA with a Hotline Miami camera that focuses entirely on you killing people," so obviously my first thought is to compare this to GTA.

GTA is a game where the story normally involves you killing certain people for certain reasons, but you can also CHOOSE to kill innocent people if you so please. The killing of innocents, however, is not an integral part of the story and just used as a tool in the open world aspect. Like "Lol I shot that guy out of his car and now I'm driving his car." I consider this cheap fun and it gets old really quickly in my opinion.

Now let's look at an action or FPS game, say Dynasty Warriors or Call of Duty. In both of these games killing people or monsters is how you progress in the game. However, the opponents can also kill you. They are threats. That battle between each other to see who comes on top is what is exciting. Look at Dark Souls for a second. You walk into a castle, you don't know these dudes in armor, they might have families or whatever, but at this point in time it's you and them in a room and they are looking to kill you, therefore you battle and the victor moves on.

The thing that is scary about this game is that the killing of innocents IS the story line. It is your goal, your purpose, your highscore. There is no overarching storyline like in GTA, these people do not deserve to die and it's not a repercussion of an open world aspect. To be honest it would be strange if you couldn't kill a civilian in the city by bashing them with a baseball bat in GTA, it would ruin the immersion, as horrific as that sounds. The "immersion" in this game is becoming psychotic and saying "I killed 265 people trying to run from me...Meh I can do better, let me go for a higher score so I can kill MORE PEOPLE."
As for the Dark Souls example, the people you are killing aren't looking to fight you. They are pedestrians, women, and children running AWAY from you. In my opinion there is no challenge or fun that comes from this.

If you want to ignore ALL the social aspects of this, no, the game is fine. It's a topdown action shooter that looks bland and normal. Replace the innocent people with moving metal targets and some boxes with guns that comes in at a certain point to pose as Cops and the game is completely fine. That being said I can't really find a reason to ignore anything about this game.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Hotline Miami is a good game because its fun. Its fun to play and has a lot of replay value. The story is pretty murky (although I personally find it compelling), but the reason people love that game so much is simple: its FUN. Really easy, intuitive mechanics and a blast to play. Its everything video games should be.

 

[Ruin]

honestly this game just looks like a moronic Dadaist piece filtered through a video game lens
offense for the sake of offending people is like
Family Guy levels of shit
and you never want your anything to be on a family guy level

 

[Squire Grooktook]

I don't have a problem with games like this, but I don't really understand what's to like about them. Disregarding the fact that I naturally tend to have empathy and connection for fictional characters that generally prevents me from taking direct pleasure in malicious or sadistic acts within fiction, there's still the fact that a game about hunting civilians sounds utterly unchallenging and boring.

I mean, you know what the motherfucking predator hunted? Aliens.

Don't see how you could go back to hunting unarmed targets after that.

 

[Magma442]

I think 2BF put it best "The game is probably terrible and the controversy is the only way the game will get attention" I mean if this game wasn't about killing innocent people will it get this much attention?

 

[Ruin]

you know what's a good game with a subversive nature that's all about killing innocent beings?
Shadow of the Colossus

 

[gold163]

honestly this game just looks like a moronic Dadaist piece filtered through a video game lens
offense for the sake of offending people is like
Family Guy levels of shit
and you never want your anything to be on a family guy level

I feel like in this time of utter inanity about how taste and deeper meaning are somehow good metrics of whether or not a game should exist, Family Guy levels of moronic Dadaism might even be necessary.

I think 2BF put it best "The game is probably terrible and the controversy is the only way the game will get attention" I mean if this game wasn't about killing innocent people will it get this much attention?

Well if the game wasn't about killing innocent people it wouldn't be the same game would it? Some people want that. Of course that's not to say that the game isn't doing it solely for attention but I'm enjoying the fireworks so far.

 

[SanoBaron]

Boogie's viewpoint

 

[Skullmageddon]

The thing that is scary about this game is that the killing of innocents IS the story line.

To be fair, the goal of the game isn't exactly to just kill innocent people, nor is it the sole driving motive for the main character. The main character made it clear that he wants to die and he intends to do so by killing as many people as he possibly can until he himself is violently killed. Of course he's also doing this because he hates the world and everyone on it, but regardless I think it's worth pointing out that he's not simply focusing on innocent people nor is it his only driving factor.

 

[ChexGuy]

Well if the game wasn't about killing innocent people it wouldn't be the same game would it? Some people want that. Of course that's not to say that the game isn't doing it solely for attention but I'm enjoying the fireworks so far.

speaking of fireworks I just noticed those are the only things that have some semblance of color in the trailer

man couldn't they at least make the blood bright red or something? or does that go against their 3edgy5me grimdark look

 

[Arcana]

in light of recent events I would like too see this game be purged from existence, lest we need some edgy internet kid think this game is a prophecy about them and starts some murder riot

 

[Φ]

in light of recent events I would like too see this game be purged from existence, lest we need some edgy internet kid think this game is a prophecy about them and starts some murder riot

I doubt that'd happen, if stopping future shootings was everyone's goal then there'd be mass anti bullying meet ups, protests, etc, to make sure something like that would never happen.

 

[Magma442]

in light of recent events I would like too see this game be purged from existence, lest we need some edgy internet kid think this game is a prophecy about them and starts some murder riot

If things like that were true then Skullgirls would've taught me how to beat up anyone I see in the streets to obtain a heart....wait.

 

[No longer exist]

I watched the trailer and I started laughing after the guys dialog. It's hilarious how fucking satirical this is. It's like a grind house film. Like holy shit, this game takes itself way too seriously and it's fucking hilarious.

I love the Doom text it uses at the end (It makes me think this was inspired from a certain incident that involved the game doom...not going to go further than that.)

 

[ChexGuy]

in light of recent events I would like to see this game be purged from existence, lest we need some edgy internet kid think this game is a prophecy about them and starts some murder riot

preeeeeeeetty sure if that happens you'd want to be more concerned with whoever the hell was supposed to keep an eye on that kid when he was growing up and how they didn't notice he was messed in the head to begin with

 

[Φ]

preeeeeeeetty sure if that happens you'd want to be more concerned with whoever the hell was supposed to keep an eye on that kid when he was growing up and how they didn't notice he was messed in the head to begin with

To be fair some people are good at not expressing how they feel when asked or just lie about it to not worry the other person.

 

[Muro]

in light of recent events I would like too see this game be purged from existence, lest we need some edgy internet kid think this game is a prophecy about them and starts some murder riot

If someone has the drive to kill people irl, he doesn't need a game to trigger him. If there's no game to serve as an excuse, he'll stumble upon a movie, a book or a drawing at the back of a cereal box, it's just a matter of time.

On the other hand, if someone wasn't planning to go on a real life rampage, it's unlikely a game will inspire him towards it. If anything, being a brutal monster in a video game helps lay off some steam and satiate the primal thirst for blood with no actual harm done.

 

[gold163]

The thing that is scary about this game is that the killing of innocents IS the story line. It is your goal, your purpose, your highscore. There is no overarching storyline like in GTA, these people do not deserve to die and it's not a repercussion of an open world aspect.

Scary, but necessary. Natural Born Killers. Elephant. Films are free to explore the "reasoning" behind senseless violence. Why can't games do this?

in light of recent events I would like too see this game be purged from existence, lest we need some edgy internet kid think this game is a prophecy about them and starts some murder riot

Pardon me for saying this, but that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. Sociopaths aren't going to pick the obvious influences. If anything a narcissistic anti-hero is going to see something like Hatred as insulting parody.

Edgy internet kids don't need a reason to start murder riots. The intentions behind atrocities like school shootings can't be generalized or pidgeonholed into conveniently deterministic constructs. I guess there's a case to be made for not glorifying real-life violence, but glorification is again subject to personal interpretation.