Help With Counter Strategies: Stop The Band I Want To Get Off

[Man-In-Crowd-4]

I'm gonna keep this simple, because the Internet's a busy place. I'm new to the game (only about 8 hours, at least 2 of which were working out controls) and can beat almost all characters comfortably - except Big Band. Even when I'm playing on Easy, BB still seems to be able to hit me from anywhere he likes as soon as I'm not blocking (due to Giant Step H and armoured Brass Knuckles), and he combos much more than any other character seems to do. And then of course there's the fact that he just has really really strong attacks. I can beat all the other characters comfortably but as soon as I see Big Band then even if it's 1v3 (and I'm the one) then I just resign to losing half my health before beating him. Is there some sort of trick I'm missing here to enfeeble him? I know he has huge hurtboxes but I don't get the chances to exploit them that I'd like. Am I just missing something blindingly obvious?


(For context's sake, I'm playing the Steam version with a keyboard, and I have neither the money, inclination or opportunities to buy 'a proper controller' for the game so if anyone suggests that I will Updo them. I dunno if the format I'm playing on explains my problem in any way, but I figured it couldn't hurt.)

 

[doubledark]

keyboard controls are fine, you need to learn to block brass knuckles because it is super easy to punish it on block.

giant step hits high, and the shockwave hits on the ground

 

[Man-In-Crowd-4]

Yeah, you can punish it if you block it - it's just a case of not getting hit by it coming out quickly. Guess he's a keep-on-your-toes opponent.

So you block Giant Step high, then low? Or just low?

 

[bigbandpro69]

I'm not familiar with story mode AI, but in general, you are supposed to respect Big Band's moves while approaching him. If you dash up and throw out moves you are going to get hit by one of his moves as they cover a lot of space. I'm guessing you can walk him up to the corner and proceed to beat him up with endless overheads, because I don't think the AI can handle those. That's pretty much how it goes in player vs player anyway, except most players are more trigger happy with his reversals (beat extend + super sonic jazz) I don't think the AI can properly reversal anyways (hitting you with an invincible move, most basic example being shoryuken from street fighter)

 

[bigbandpro69]

Yeah, you can punish it if you block it - it's just a case of not getting hit by it coming out quickly. Guess he's a keep-on-your-toes opponent.

So you block Giant Step high, then low? Or just low?

You block LK and MK giant step high, the HK version hits fullscreen across the ground and is unblockable, it needs to be jumped over.

 

[Man-In-Crowd-4]

I'm not familiar with story mode AI, but in general, you are supposed to respect Big Band's moves while approaching him. If you dash up and throw out moves you are going to get hit by one of his moves as they cover a lot of space. I'm guessing you can walk him up to the corner and proceed to beat him up with endless overheads, because I don't think the AI can handle those. That's pretty much how it goes in player vs player anyway, except most players are more trigger happy with his reversals (beat extend + super sonic jazz) I don't think the AI can properly reversal anyways (hitting you with an invincible move, most basic example being shoryuken from street fighter)

Huh, that's an interesting way of doing it. I guess what I'm getting so far is 'Be careful, dodge, block and jump and ONLY when he's vulnerable pick on him'. The thing about overheads is interesting but it also sounds like the only way to beat him is spamming, which... yeah. But it's worth knowing about, definitely. Thanks guys, although if anyone has anything extra to add then please, I need all the help I can get over here.

(I dunno if it means anything but just in case it does: I'm playing against Arcade Mode AI, not Story.)

 

[Man-In-Crowd-4]

You block LK and MK giant step high, the HK version hits fullscreen across the ground and is unblockable, it needs to be jumped over.

I thought this game had a thing that prevented unblockables. Is that only for being hit with two attacks at once?

 

[bigbandpro69]

Huh, that's an interesting way of doing it. I guess what I'm getting so far is 'Be careful, dodge, block and jump and ONLY when he's vulnerable pick on him'. The thing about overheads is interesting but it also sounds like the only way to beat him is spamming, which... yeah. But it's worth knowing about, definitely. Thanks guys, although if anyone has anything extra to add then please, I need all the help I can get over here.

(I dunno if it means anything but just in case it does: I'm playing against Arcade Mode AI, not Story.)

Correct, making a safe approach to big band is a good idea as his space control moves (brass knuckles, A train) are unsafe at close range. And yes, I imagine spamming is effective vs the AI.

I thought this game had a thing that prevented unblockables. Is that only for being hit with two attacks at once?

True, but it's not an unblockable in the way that it is unavoidable. You can jump over the projectile and it's a fairly slow and reactable move. Unblockable protection is when you are hit by a high/low move and you are given high + low protection during the blockstun of the move, to protect you from being hit both ways at once.

 

[Man-In-Crowd-4]

Correct, making a safe approach to big band is a good idea as his space control moves (brass knuckles, A train) are unsafe at close range. And yes, I imagine spamming is effective vs the AI.


True, but it's not an unblockable in the way that it is unavoidable. You can jump over the projectile and it's a fairly slow and reactable move. Unblockable protection is when you are hit by a high/low move and you are given high + low protection during the blockstun of the move, to protect you from being hit both ways at once.

Oh, right, that makes sense.

(I don't care how effective spamming is on anyone, playing SSFIV 3DS online has shown me how incredibly annoying it is. Which may be why I don't main Peacock.)

 

[Fizzxwizz]

Oh, right, that makes sense.

(I don't care how effective spamming is on anyone, playing SSFIV 3DS online has shown me how incredibly annoying it is. Which may be why I don't main Peacock.)

Spamming isn't really a thing and that kind of thinking isn't really conducive to fightgames. I know you've had the game for like eight hours but reading something like that will make a lot of people upset and if you ever want to git gud you'll likely have to do away with that line of thought. Though deciding to be "hardcore" or not is a choice and if you don't want to do that thats completely cool and acceptable.


On the topic of dealing with big band, the shockwave from heavy giant step is unblockable on the ground, but if you block the actual hit of giant step the shockwave doesn't happen. Big band in general is weak to throws and hitgrabs because of his large hitboxes and the fact that both kinds of moves break armor. Some examples of hitgrabs would be painwheel's qcf k and her air super, squigly's silver chord. There are quite a few other characters that have these as well.

Almost all of big band's moves are punishable on block, so if you stay near him and block there isn't much he can do. In low level play most big bands will use very unsafe moves and kill themselves when the other player blocks.

 

[skull person]

There's a difference between 'spamming' and 'doing what works until it stops working.'
Why should Big Band stop 'spamming' H Brass Knuckes if it's working, or why should Ryu stop 'spamming' fireballs if it's working?

When you adapt and learn how to deal with what the opponent is throwing at you, they'll have to adapt as well.
Sorta what fighting games are all about.

So don't use that word! :P

Big Band though, mostly ends up killing himself if you let him, A Train, and Brass H are both very unsafe on block and so is L Beat Extend and Super Sonic Jazz super. Most of the things the AI does iirc are really risky and you can win if you punish his mistakes.
The AI however, does not adapt. It is a robot with lots of flaws. So if you find something that works it will probably keep working. (That's why playing with humans is more fun and you learn more)

 

[Man-In-Crowd-4]

Ok, ok, I retract my comment on spamming. That is not a debate to have here (although it might still be a debate worth having in general).

Thanks to both of you guys for your advice. So you just keep on your toes, block his moves and then when he opens himself up then hit him back. Unless you have command grabs, which spoil his day anyway. This has been very helpful, thank you.

 

[CaioLugon]

One thing about AI bigband:

when you're in the air he just stands still and therefore won't block anything OR try to attack you.

just avoid the ground as much as you can, pw can just fly there for 10 seconds and he wont move an inch.

 

[Man-In-Crowd-4]

One thing about AI bigband:

when you're in the air he just stands still and therefore won't block anything OR try to attack you.

just avoid the ground as much as you can, pw can just fly there for 10 seconds and he wont move an inch.

Now that's something I'm definitely going to have to try. And I wouldn't have thought of it, so thanks.