How do I attack in this game?

[BlueFeena]

Hey gang. First off, I came very close to posting this in the Eliza section since I primarily play Eliza and I’m coming from the viewpoint of an Eliza main, but I felt this question was broad enough that it probably belongs in the general section instead. Hopefully it’ll help some other people out as well.

I do not understand offense and attacking in this game at all. When I first started playing, I would impulsively block and still do so. A big problem I have is reacting to valid gaps in a blockstring where I can squeeze an attack into; these gaps usually appear and go by before I am aware of them. I’ve been playing this game for almost a year now, and this problem has not subsided very much. I am not button masher and I generally do not like mindlessly pushing buttons or mashing.

The key thing to understand here is, I want to attack people, I dislike blocking everything all day long and would much rather pressure and scare my opponents. The problem is, every time I attack someone, I get counter hit – and I do truly mean, every single time.

Since I am an Eliza main, here are several examples I keep running into – in order to stay focused on the problem I’m going to try and whittle this down to problems with attacking and offense, as opposed to defensive and timing issues:

* IAD -> j.mk, constantly gets counter hit by other characters’ airborne attacks, including another Eliza’s j.mk! This scenario happens constantly.

* IAD -> j.lk, constantly gets counter hit by other characters’ airborne attacks, including other Elizas’ airborne attacks. This scenario happens constantly as well.

* Dash-Jump -> j.mk almost always results in me getting anti-aired.

* Attempting to punish people for blockstrings or general unsafe moves results in me... getting mixed up? A good example I can think of off the top of my head is Parasoul; I have been reading she’s a character who cannot reapply pressure after a blockstring, so why can I not reach her after she does, well anything? She’ll attack, throw a fireball to help make it safe, and after which she is spaced out to the point where her attacks put her on advantage; am I seriously required to just keep blocking all day until she eats a PBGC or crashes into a point blank DP?

* I cannot seem to attack “Big Button” characters ever and am always counter hit when attempting to do so. Common problematic characters are, from most problematic to least, BeoWulf, Double, Parasoul, Painwheel, and Squigly. What are they doing to me? Anything! It just feels like they’re running around, doing everything they want and I’m always forced to block!

* A very Eliza specific question here, but I constantly see Eliza’s performing “airborne blockstrings”, such as j.lk, j.hp, GET PUSH BLOCKED HERE, they then air dash right back in, [do more stuff and successfully mix up the opponent]. I do not understand how they are physically touching the other player; I’m whiffing air normals constantly and I always seem to be slightly too high or too far or too close, usually to the point where the attacks visuallylook like they should connect, but do not. When my attacks do connect, I get pushblocked and my offensive turn is over.


I’m sorry for asking such a horribly broad question in the gameplay forum, but this issue of offense has be plaguing me since the day I started and I’m begging for any help. Answers don’t even have to be Eliza specific, I’d kill for anything advice on this at all.

 

[Fumako]

It would be nice to have some footage of you so that we can give more specific advice, but for now I can only give generalisations. (keep in mind that I am only an intermediate player at best)

Spoiler: HORRIBLE ADVICE

* IAD -> j.mk, constantly gets counter hit by other characters’ airborne attacks, including another Eliza’s j.mk! This scenario happens constantly.

Were they airborne when you did IAD? Because if I were in their position, I definitely would press something to keep you blocking if you were to jump.

* IAD -> j.lk, constantly gets counter hit by other characters’ airborne attacks, including other Elizas’ airborne attacks. This scenario happens constantly as well.

I think this is more a spacing problem? Also, see above.
Again, really hard to give concrete advice with no footage...

* Dash-Jump -> j.mk almost always results in me getting anti-aired.

Try mixing it up with some empty jumps? At that point they have to guess correctly or their anti-air gets blocked and punished.

* Attempting to punish people for blockstrings or general unsafe moves results in me... getting mixed up? A good example I can think of off the top of my head is Parasoul; I have been reading she’s a character who cannot reapply pressure after a blockstring, so why can I not reach her after she does, well anything? She’ll attack, throw a fireball to help make it safe, and after which she is spaced out to the point where her attacks put her on advantage; am I seriously required to just keep blocking all day until she eats a PBGC or crashes into a point blank DP?

Aaahhh, I know how you feel on that Parasoul one!
You don't have to hit with a PBGC/DP to escape pressure though. Just learn to pushblock in the gaps of people's blockstrings to create distance then either jump-forward or start chicken blocking.
For the Parasoul situation specifically, I find that pushblocking the fireball pushes her far enough where you're still at a disadvantage (because of tear) but you now have enough freedom to do something that isn't hold back.

* I cannot seem to attack “Big Button” characters ever and am always counter hit when attempting to do so. Common problematic characters are, from most problematic to least, BeoWulf, Double, Parasoul, Painwheel, and Squigly. What are they doing to me? Anything! It just feels like they’re running around, doing everything they want and I’m always forced to block!

From the characters listed I'm guessing you mean stuff like Beowulf spamming j.hp?
If they're just doing that repeatedly then it's actually in your favour! Since the "big buttons" I find problematic on these characters are all air normals you should get them to be wary of being in the air.
(from my experience)
- Beowulf and Squigly will use their big normals at about midscreen (fullscreen for Squigs?), punish it with M Upperkhat which you should be able to convert off of?
- Parasoul and Double usually throw theirs out up in your face (when I played double I liked to dash jump midscreen then j.hp), not sure about Para but you should be able to jump instant j.lp to hit them out of start-up.
- Painwheel, I think you should be able to hit her out of j.mp but airthrowing the armoured start-up of j.hp is fun too wheeee

I do not understand how they are physically touching the other player; I’m whiffing air normals constantly and I always seem to be slightly too high or too far or too close, usually to the point where the attacks visuallylook like they should connect, but do not.

Something that I always do when picking up new games or new characters is I spend at least 30 minutes in training just pressing buttons and normals.
Just go into training mode, turn on hitboxes, and start hitting buttons and trying approaches. You can set the dummy to block and pushblock for a reason, you know!
If you want to practice blockstrings, set the dummy block to random; now it will sometimes block and sometimes not.

I’m sorry for asking such a horribly broad question in the gameplay forum

I don't think anyone minds, but you should present footage for these things~

 

[BlueFeena]

Hey Fumako, thanks for getting back to me. It might take me a day or so to dig around for footage of the exact issues; I made this post on whim since my offense has been bugging me a ton. Tomorrow is my day off so I hope to get precise footage soon.

It would be nice to have some footage of you so that we can give more specific advice, but for now I can only give generalisations. (keep in mind that I am only an intermediate player at best)

I appreciate any and all advice, don’t worry about your skill level.

Were they airborne when you did IAD? Because if I were in their position, I definitely would press something to keep you blocking if you were to jump.

Actually, what is usually happening is that the opponent and I are jumping at the same time and are then trying to contest air space at the same time. My inputs always seem to be beaten out.

Try mixing it up with some empty jumps? At that point they have to guess correctly or their anti-air gets blocked and punished.

That’s a good point. I suspect I’m becoming too focussed on attacking at times, and am possibly trying to “fit a round peg into a square hole” so to speak, empty jumping more would probably help. My concern is that even if I block it, it always seems to put the pressure games in the opponent’s favor? It seems as though I’ll block an attack, and the opponent just starts to call assists and do everything.

Aaahhh, I know how you feel on that Parasoul one!
You don't have to hit with a PBGC/DP to escape pressure though. Just learn to pushblock in the gaps of people's blockstrings to create distance then either jump-forward or start chicken blocking.
For the Parasoul situation specifically, I find that pushblocking the fireball pushes her far enough where you're still at a disadvantage (because of tear) but you now have enough freedom to do something that isn't hold back.

This is another really good point. I’d like to try to turn a blocked string into a punish, as I see a lot of people do that to me when I attempt a blockstring, but getting out of pressure more intelligently would help out immensely. I’ll confess that I typically auto-pilot pushblocks and PBGCs and I really need to work on my timing more with this!

From the characters listed I'm guessing you mean stuff like Beowulf spamming j.hp?
If they're just doing that repeatedly then it's actually in your favour! Since the "big buttons" I find problematic on these characters are all air normals you should get them to be wary of being in the air.
(from my experience)
- Beowulf and Squigly will use their big normals at about midscreen (fullscreen for Squigs?), punish it with M Upperkhat which you should be able to convert off of?
- Parasoul and Double usually throw theirs out up in your face (when I played double I liked to dash jump midscreen then j.hp), not sure about Para but you should be able to jump instant j.lp to hit them out of start-up.
- Painwheel, I think you should be able to hit her out of j.mp but airthrowing the armoured start-up of j.hp is fun too wheeee

My issue is more about the decision making and being to do it fast enough with a good response. I’ll use Beowulf as he’s the most extreme example:

* If I see him spamming j.hps, I’ll second guess myself before trying anything out of fear of Wolf Blitzer. I’ve crashed into Wolf Blitzer and his j.hp a lot and making a quick decision around either is difficult.

* I’m constantly afraid to be aggressive against a Beowulf because of the hard reads required to get in – at a distance, I frequently get sweeped by his arm sweep, get hit by his command grab, and when I do get in, I’m living in terror of his chair throw or him randomly doing Gigantic Arm at the end of a blockstring or just straight up doing Gigantic Arm in neutral! Attempting to throw him out of the chair throw has not worked well and I am convinced his chair toss out spaces a throw for nearly everyone except Big Band. Similar to the Parasoal example, I feel like I can never attack him and spend the entire game blocking.

Just go into training mode, turn on hitboxes, and start hitting buttons and trying approaches. You can set the dummy to block and pushblock for a reason, you know!
If you want to practice blockstrings, set the dummy block to random; now it will sometimes block and sometimes not.

It’s funny, all the time I’ve spent on this game and setting the training dummy to do pushblocks is something I’ve never experimented with. I'll definitely do that, thank you!

Thanks as always.