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How do I Skullgirls

Respond to what I'm actually writing instead of what you imagine that I'm writing, thanks.

I'm not talking about top level play where people are actively deciding to do reversals because they know about the situation, and they got a read.

I'm talking about "Well, I'm in a somewhat negative situation, FUCKIN MASH THAT SHIT EVERY TIME". If top players are getting hit by that kind of mash 90% of the time, they are NOT top players.
 
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ClarenceMage said:
Respond to what I'm actually writing instead of what you imagine that I'm writing, thanks.

I'm not talking about top level play where people are actively deciding to do reversals because they know about the situation, and they got a read.

I'm talking about "Well, I'm in a somewhat negative situation, FUCKIN MASH THAT SHIT EVERY TIME". If top players are getting hit by that kind of mash 90% of the time, they are NOT top players.
My bad, man. I just got the impression you were calling my play braindead and I was like "dang what did i do to this guy"
 
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Sorry for the offense dude, I completely forgot that Hilary was talking about a real situation against a real player and I just went off talking about some hypothetical situation. I've been on the receiving end of a LOT of reversal supers, so the salt is deeply buried in the wound.
 
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"I will argue on the Internet no more forever. "

-Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce
 
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Yo I learned a lot after googling the reference.

rip Chief ScarJo
 
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Vancouver things

+ Filia 6431P
+ have your routes decided for each of their characters so you don't drop simple things when you're choking in a tournament setting
+ triple-check your macros before you start
+ plan eating/sleeping/drinking better
+ stop caring so much
+ sev incoming mixup advice
+ sev touches/resets per ratio advice
+ throw more
+ actually do Filia resets
+ always say "it's gonna be gregor" right before you gregor so that it becomes a crossup/unblockable for no reason
 
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Val Fil Dou
Pai For Bel
Pea Fuk Para
Squigly Band

6431P backwards is 4613KK. <3 <3 <3
 
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install for DD conversions maybe?

 
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not sure why undizzy's triggering.

will have to look closer when i get home.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Try calling the assist earlier, so it comes out during the c.MP or something, and see whether it still happens?
Turns out it's a known/unintended/will-not-fix combo tracking thing.
 
Wait, you're leaving? Why are you leaving? We can't afford to lose any PW players!
 
corner
L: cHP jHP adc jMP(2) jHP jLP jMK(2) jHK(2) adc jHP(!)
or
H: cHP jHP adc jMK(1) jHP jLP jMK(2) jHK(2) adc jHP(!)

L: cHP jHP adc jMP(2) jHP (8)jLK~adc jHP(!)
or
H: cHP jHP adc jMK(1) jHP (8)jLK~adc jHP(!)
 
duck
cLK sMK sMK sHK
jLP jHK Tecaup/Barrel
sMKx2 sHK
jMP jHK
djMK jHK Barrel
sLPx2 sMKx2 cHP bomber car

lab:
cLK sMKx2 sHK
TK Fridge
1. dash cMP sHK
2. dash cLK sMKx2 sHK
jLP jMP jHK
djMK jHK Barrel
sLP sMKx2 cHP bomber car
 
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PAMgU7e.png
 
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Jab

also

 
Here's another

cLK cMP cHP Slide dash cLK/sLK cMP cHP HStep sMK2 sHK jMP jHK SJ jMK jHK Barrel sLP1/sLP2 sMK2 cHP Bomber Car 7.6k

Does work on Double, probably, but the dash is tight, and leaving out the dash sLK/cLK would work just as fine on her, but it whiffs on Parasoul IIRC? So it's easier to cLK cHP her, and I decided.. why not both, which makes sMK confirm from step really damn easy because of the supa high bounce. Ok love you hils good luck

edit: also I think DJ works in place of SJ if you'd rather tap up up instead of down up!
 
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Janky as my double combo is, I actually really like it because it's got a ton of utility.

shit's cray. the only thing that sucks about it is that it's about 300 damage less than Duck's, but I can kinda hold that I guess.
 
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Hilary said:
good shit

functionality + options > 300 damage

allll dayyyyyy
 
Things

* Thinking outside of auto-pilot. Block strings and how you'll react to them, player tendencies, and character/team options.

* Pushblocking. Don't pushblock so much, don't miss it when you do..

* Speeding up reaction to absence of lows as incoming high/throw in most scenarios. Still really hesitant to commit to this for fear of being conditioned and reacting/adjusting poorly to tic throws or multiple/delayed lows in some specific strings.

* Bait mashes with block + assist. Be aware of certain setups like "the Domo" that may interfere with it by forcing upbacks into preblock. Maybe neutral jump on their wakeup and either it chicken blocks and you have to 8 jump again? Maybe you airblock and just come down without being threatened by USS?

* Incoming mixups. Application and defense

* Start making mental notes of which chain I reset someone in and make timing the next reset/bait a mixup in itself rather than focusing on the quality of the mixup in a vacuum. I'm still in need of execution practice on a lot of resets given that Val/Filia are still relatively newer to me than Double, but I should be confident and familiar enough with their routes at this point that I'm making more decisive plans in my combos/resets/baits.

* At this point, it's probably best to just be honest about my Filia not being strong enough to actually pull off Duck's strategy of playing Val + Shell 'til death and then using Filia + Meter to swing a large comeback/advantage if necessary. Until Filia's that good, I should probably make more of an effort to save my characters if I have the ability/meter to.

* Filia is okay and gets by on being Filia, but I need to have a horrifyingly unfun and invisible bullshit Filia. Movement practice, knowledge of buttons to challenge people with, and generally less fucks given on offense. My Filia is suffering for a Painwheel player's problems/conditioning when I don't even play the character anymore.

* Teching throws, airthrows, and grab bag.

* Punishing hard read throw attempts by jumping straight up and coming down with a CH air normal

* How does Duck get everyone to eat Updo when they know it's there.

* What do Duck and Sev do to each other when they get into updo/bomber battles and counter call scenarios. Keep in mind updo blockstun changes; older tape might not be as accurate.

* Man, above all else I need to be confident in offense. Even if my defense is improved, I need to take myself out of the frame of mind that it's an altogether rewarding way to play, because it isn't. There's times and games to be patient and smart and willing to dissect someone else's gameplay while you're fighting them and make actions based on what you can discern about them, but man skullgirls is not fucking it. It shouldn't matter who I'm fighting, when the round starts, I need to be forcing my game down someone's throat. When I get the hit, I need to be thinking of how I'm getting the next one. Respect for someone else's game should never equal a willingness to actually play their game; it's just enough to find out how to turn it into your game.

* Something nice for ChooseGoose, Domo, Skarmand, and Sev for always being helpful with everything.
 
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Working:


Theory:

jHP Barrel/Updo
cMP cHP FS
cHP FS
sMK sMK sHK H-Gun
Fridge
OTG cMP sHK
jMP jHK
sjMK jHK Barrel
sLP * sLP H-Gun
cLK sMK sMK cHP H-Bomber Car

jHP Barrel/Updo
cMP cHP FS
cHP FS
sHK H-Gun
Fridge
OTG cMP sHK
jMP jHK
sjMK jHK Barrel
sLP sLP sMK sMK H-Gun
cLK sMK sMK cHP H-Bomber Car

Not sure why the H-Gun in sLPx2 sMKx2 H-Gun will work in my proof of concept but not in the second theory combo. It combos and they're standing/grounded, it just doesn't launch and acts like retail luger there for some reason.

sLP delay sLP H-Gun acts similarly, and I feel like there's a way to get it, but it's an obnoxious ender to a combo that's unlikely to begin with.
 
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PW + Filia Corner 9.3k @ 1.0:

cLK cMK sHP + Updo
TK L-Buer fly jMK L-Buer
OTG L-Buer fly
jLK sMK H-Buer fly
jHK sLK sMK H-Buer fly
jLP jMK
sLP sLK sMK sHP L-Buer DC
 
NWM (and FTDeath with Dekillsage) notes

  • Filia sHP used as a ground to air to catch people committing to air-to-airs (squigly jLK, Fukua jLP, Para jLP, Fortune/Filia/Val in general) is big. segues into....
  • Sage mentioned DHCing early in combos. If you know you're going to DHC at the end but you have the meter up front, you might as well for damage/scaling early. For now, considering sHP > Fenrir > Monster and finishing the combo with Double on point which may work better for meter build in neutral post-combo when I have no meter left.
  • Teacup, why are you the greatest gimmick
  • Don't commit to mediums. Opposite of VSav in this respect; if the first hits don't connect or aren't confirmed cleanly, there's little point in going into a medium. I feel like this is very much an autopilot response that aims to clean up a bad assist call's mess, but only puts me further in the hole. Most characters (and especially Filia) have really advantageous light buttons that can extend pressure better. On offense, calling your assist after your lights sets up anxious mashes or PBGCs that can be punished but doesn't actually take any risks with the point. If they don't reversal and respect it, then you get to go back in.
  • While watching how non-committal Sage gets to be with LnL or Fukua Drill behind him, I'd really thought about sacrificing Double/M-Bomber as an assist and using Eliza/Butcher's or Fukua/Drill, but the more I play with L-Bomber, the more I feel like I can either use this for most of the same things or work my way back up to M-Bomber with time. I really like the shape of that play; call Drill and either Beo hopdash light or empty hopdash low/throw and use the very last parts of the assist's blockstun to go into another round of lights to either safety off the assist character or pose the question: will you reversal if I go for another hit/throw. I feel like more experience with L-Bomber will offer some of the same opportunities, especially with Filia's IAD/Low options being so good. "If I play this right, you will never hit me with a mash or PBGC" really struck a chord with me and what I want on offense. Also really debating how well I'll get to use Updo while Double's on point or if there are other options like creating a bit of space during updo blockstun then protecting Filia with sMP/cHP > Luger or using monster if I have surplus meter. Maybe even replacing Updo altogether with something like French Twist or Hairball.
  • I went into NWM feeling like my Filia was terrible and my Double spacing/neutral was going to carry me, and the inverse sort of happened. Filia did most of the work, Double was just kinda there. In retrospect, a lot of the things Sage showed me about a) appreciating Double's cLK both as a hit and on block at range b) throwing a hell of a lot more will actually fit really nicely into my Double's game and help her be less passive.
  • Double jHP spam has to go. I need to be so much more cognizant of air to air spacing or ground approaches while I'm upbacking with Double. jLP, jLK, jMP, and jHK are probably my most underutilized buttons. When I think about my ground-to-air tendencies, I'm of the opinion that they are what they are because I'm so bad at air-to-air or air-to-ground planning and response. Outside of corner pressure, jHP fastfall is a dead and exhausted tactic and responses to jHP are too numerous and effective to keep it up. I also really want to be smart with jMK as a means of hovering and preserving a double jump that would otherwise be used for hang-time, changing momentum from upbacks and going back in, etc.
  • The work I put into consciously adapting Double blockstrings did pay off, but it's not a huge game-changing thing. Still, getting sliding knockdowns or lugers that make them wanna tech back and give me 3/4 of the screen is nice. I feel like with more time/experience, I can start doing more informed things that factor screen positionings and defensive options if I get that sliding knockdown. Using this as a segue into an oki game (that I don't really have yet) would be a huge boon to my play. Speaking of which...
  • Meaty Avery from jHK is huge. There is very little risk if they're the nutty type or a great opportunity if they respect it.
  • My Filia's wavedashing is getting crisper every time I play the game. I think with time and applications from what I learned about non-committal light approaches, it will be very annoying to deal with. Going into the tournament, I'd really thought "I need to jHP more and think less" but the IAD jLP jLK things I'd learned from Sev really worked out, and will work out even better with more practice.
  • Have fun, don't be a robot. It doesn't work in a game this fast/loose, and it makes the entire experience so much better. Games are enjoyable, and the foundation for learning is much more stable. The game is made to be "crazy" and encourages "crazy" play which segues into...
  • Trust your resets, trust your reads. There are monsters in this community that have incredible reactions and can do wild things, but I am not one of them, and I doubt they're the majority. I cannot react to everything I want to, or even a third of the time on defense, and I need to believe things will work when I am on offense. Planning, reading, and keeping myself in good positions is more valuable than trying to play "perfectly" in some false notion of what it means to be a good player.
  • My monster incoming is actually pretty neat. I always felt it was just a dressed up gimmick I'd appropriated from Duck's Val + Bomber incomings and applied to my team, but I guess it works better than I'd thought. Sage saying "man what the fuck that was so tricky!" (and Kolby having some trouble with it in our lobby play) is probably more proof than I need for the base concept. It would be good to explore other options for it, and using it as a base of setplay if it's blocked. Which leads to...
  • YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE CRAZY SETUPS. I watched Skarmand, Domo, and Yaya's really strong preconstructed things work well, but still not be as complete/assured as they needed them to be when it mattered. I always have this feeling that a very fast/closed neutral game or committed resets are necessary slime in order to succeed in this game, when in reality very conservative resets and hedging my bets with safer options in neutral are more than strong enough. For all the jokes about setplay and oppressing someone as hard as you can, I think there's still a lot of room for optimism in neutral if movement and decisions are good. Resets themselves don't /have/ to be more complicated than low/throw when low/throw will work, and leaves more room for the really nasty triple crossunders or baits to work without wearing them out.
  • QBee is 100% complete and unadulterated bullshit. I love this character.
 
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Problem: I feel like I'm resetting with different options on reads, but almost always at the same point within combos because I'll go for the reset points I like the most or feel are the safest and most consistent. The resets themselves are great in a vacuum but becoming predictable based on timing/pacing is giving people that anticipate the next a big red warning.

If any of you have recommendations for better ways to practice multiple resets or plan for them and the decision-making process you use, I would really appreciate it.
 
@Hilary
Good observations!

Question:


You say jhp fastfall is dead because the answers are to numerous to really give counterplay.

I'm wondering what these answers are? When I use jhp fastfall my most consistent pickup is to throw and I tend to mix that up with low or another jhp or cr.lk> throw.


My opponents aren't yours though so I'm wondering if your opponents are using hidden inputs to defend against the tactic, or are simply pushblocking early to get autoguard protection or some such?
 
ugh filia has wavedashing, now i have to learn it.. why even have a run.
 
@Hilary
I think your reset thing is dependent on character.


My painwheel has many many different reset points, and resets and I can't even begin to use all my different resets/mixups/ burst baits in 3 matches, let alone one.

With painwheel though I do have general pattern of resetting:

If it's an air confirm from her jmp I will reset early most of the time.
If it's a throw confirm I will reset early most of the time.

If it's a low confirm from neutral I will take the combo to max undizzy most of the time.
With painwheel specifically I have resets that are tailored for max undizzy and they are usually dhc combos designed to kill.


I tend not to think about my resets to much. One of the things to remember about resets is that there are different kinds. There are "pressure resets" designed primarily to keep your opponent blocking and you in their face.

Burst bait resets...

Hang your assist resets ( call a lockdown assist and do nothing/ wait for them to reversal your assist and then punish them for that.


But that's painwheel, she's pretty easy to mix reset points up with because of flight.

With a character like double it becomes harder and is more about reading the opponents options and how they LIKE to defend.


Take the extremely obvious st.hk, delay jump>throw. Most people don't get hit by this anymore very much. But it's important to mess with your opponents head. You can do things like st.hk, delay, h luger shot.

Lower level players break the throw by seeing double not jump after the st.hk. So if you don't jump, and delay a h Luger shot you can hit them mashing throw tech out of the air.

It's a low level mixup, but one that when you mix in st.hk xx fleshstep to crossup, you can do simple shit like cr.lk as the land and then either tick throw for the low execution option, or call assist as you do the cr.lk, then do a fleshstep.

You can also just do that exact same mixup without fleshstepping first.

Then you have jlp into teacup mixups which can work if your opponent is readying themselves for defending against the st.hk mixups. (The teacup is a gimmick though, try to use jmp as a crossup instead sometimes)

You can also pressure reset here by just doing j.lp and delaying a j.hp to hit just as they land. Now you can call an assist after you land or do jhp fast fall from a weird position ect etc

You can also do the j.lp off of an ips tracked j.lp. The opponent is much less likely to be mashing at that point and the ips going off can blow there concentration completely because they will think you've made a mistake and will be looking to ips break in a moment or so, when all you are about to do is cross them up... Mindgames :)

Then you of course have the post air chain mixups which go into left/right or throw.

So while double is much more predictable with her reset points than say... Painwheel, if you make sure to use all her obvious points and make sure to mixup what you actually do, as well as your intentions (mixup, pressure reset, or burst bait) you should still have more than enough ammo to run a quality vortex with double. She confirms off of basically everything.

Don't know if that helps but yeah...my first reset is usually a low/throw of some kind and then from there I just generally think to not use the same reset point again twice in a row, UNLESS I feel like my opponent has a habit that I can exploit (low level players love to eat delayed h Lugers after st.hk, so I will oblige them till they make the conscious effort not to. Once they do, depending on how I feel I will do the obvious thing and go for the delayed throw to fuck with their head, or I will just do other reset points normally and then come back to the throw/Luger reset and allow them to land into different resets)
 
Hilary said:
Problem: I feel like I'm resetting with different options on reads, but almost always at the same point within combos because I'll go for the reset points I like the most or feel are the safest and most consistent. The resets themselves are great in a vacuum but becoming predictable based on timing/pacing is giving people that anticipate the next a big red warning.

If any of you have recommendations for better ways to practice multiple resets or plan for them and the decision-making process you use, I would really appreciate it.

I believe you're looking for a series of resets similar to this?

Filia:

So say you do,
c.lk cr.mk st.hp
j.lp j.mp j.mk airdash j.mp j.hk restand
IAD J.hk (reset. cross up) cr.lk st.hp
j.lp j.mp j.mk(1hit) j.hp(to fast fall)
dash under cr.lk(reset, cross up low) cr.mk st.hp
jump airdash j.lp jump airthrow (reset. woah where did this grab come from?) hairball airdash j.mp j.hk restand


stuff like this tends to work, because you're doing different resets at different points making it hard to read. Something to remember though. It is okay to do the same exact reset at the same exact point twice in a row. It is also okay after a short series of resets to stop and block, or to jump over the opponent to cross up their inputs and mess up their reversal. Airthrow combined with fast fall low is extremely good, because neither can really be reacted too, and they lead back into each other. Ya feel me
 
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dekillsage said:
I believe you're looking for a series of resets similar to this?

..

stuff like this tends to work, because you're doing different resets at different points making it hard to read.

..

It is also okay after a short series of resets to stop and block, or to jump over the opponent to cross up their inputs and mess up their reversal. Airthrow combined with fast fall low is extremely good, because neither can really be reacted too, and they lead back into each other. Ya feel me

Exactly this.

I think planning a series but recognizing points where it's commit/bait and then making decisions at each one is what I wanna work on, or even just saying "going to do three fast resets then bait, these will be the resets" as soon as I get a hit. It's something most Filias have, but I really lack.

I'm not really sure how to practice it in casuals or in the lab, but I'll figure something out.

Something to remember though. It is okay to do the same exact reset at the same exact point twice in a row.

I do try to do this sometimes, and I feel like this should work more often than it does for me. Probably just the people I play making better decisions. Domo and Skarmand in particular are the reason I want to have much more diverse reset points than a few points with a lot of options, because they usually blow me up with reversals when I do or respond patiently/correctly when I bait. Then I watch you play Domo in the hotel and do cMK Runstop backdash airthrow three times in a row and I'm like "oh now you wanna block airthrows ಠ_ಠ"
 
To get people to stop doing reversals every time you need to give them a reason. If I block a reversal, or avoid it, you will probably lose that character. Makes blocking seem like a much better idea when you do that.
 
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