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How do you read frame data?

Rynozilla

Rynozilla

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Eliza Squigly Filia
1. I know, I know. I've been making a lot of useless threads lately....
2. I couldn't find any threads that specifically focus on this, so my apologies if there is one.
3. I feel this is a VERY important of not just Skullgirls, but fighting games in general. Not many casuals, and ESPECIALLY not beginners, fully understand how frame data works. So it would be great to have a thread that fully goes about defining what it is, and why it's important. Like why safe moves are safe, formulas for calculating safe moves. What "startup", "active", and "recovery" means. I would greatly appreciate the help, and I'm sure other will as well.
(P.S. I hope this is in the right section...)
 
Adapted from EventHubs.com

Frames Per Second
Skullgirls runs at 60 frames of animation per second. The frame data for the characters shows how many frames of animation their moves take.

For example, Filia's Standing Hard Punch has a total of 36 frames of animation, which means it takes 36 of the 60 frames per second to execute the entire move.

This information is valuable because you can compare all of a character's moves to see which does the most damage, has the quickest recovery, etc.

How to read frame data
Move: The name of the attack you're using.

Startup: The number here represents how many frames of animation take place before this move is capable of hitting your opponent.

Active: Short for Active Frames. The number here shows how many frames of animation a move is capable of hitting for. For example, Filia's Standing Hard Punch has 3 active frames.

Recover: Short for Recovery Frames. This number shows how long it takes you to finish off the animation for a move before you can input another command.

Total: Total number of frames before the move's animation is complete and you can do another action.

Frame Adv. Block: Short for Frame Advantage on Block. A number with a + before it means how many frames faster than your opponent you will recover if they block your attack. Negative numbers mean how much faster your opponent will recover than you after blocking it.

Frame Adv. Hit: Short for Frame Advantage on Hit. A number with a + before it means how many frames faster than your opponent you will recover after successfully hitting them with this attack. Negative numbers mean how much faster your opponent will recover than you after being hit.

Block stun: If your attack is blocked, this number shows how many frames of animation your opponent will be stunned for.

Hit stun: If your attack lands, this number shows how many frames of animation your opponent will be stunned for.

Damage: How much damage an attack does.

Meter Gain: The Super meter you gain for having an attack connect (on hit and/or on block).
 
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http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Frame_Data_Ref

Damage = How much Damage your Attack Deals
Meter = What % of bar your Attack builds
Guard = How the Opponent has to Block your Attack*
StartUp = How many frames after your button press does the attack not have an active frame yet (can't actually hit with it)
Active = For how long the attack is active once you are able to hit with it
Recovery = For how long you can't block/jump/crouch after the last active frame
Hit Stop = For .. get about this, you won't need it**
Hit Stun = For how long the opponent can't do anything after your attack has hit him
On Hit = How much sooner/later than your opponent you can block/jump/crouch, after the attack has connected (Hitstun-Recovery)
Block Stun = For how long the opponent can't do anything (aside from Pushblock/AlphaCounter) after your attack got blocked
On Block = How much sooner/later than your opponent you can block/jump/crouch, after the attack got blocked (Blockstun-Recovery)

*Guards:
High = Standblock (Back)
Low = Crouchblock (Downback)
Mid = Can be blocked both Standing and Crouching
Throw = Can't be blocked, but whiffs against Air
Airthrow = Can't be Airblocked, but whiffs against Ground

**Blabla okay:
For how long you and your opponent are frozen in place after an attack connects. Largely irrelevant; mostly important for assist hits.

In real world terms:
Startup - Windup of an attack, eg pulling back your fist before taking a full swing
Active - All the time that your fist is capable of dealing damage, ie the full swing
Recovery - The time it takes you to get back from your Fully-Extended-Arm Position into one where you are able to block and not out of balance
Hit Stop - The Slowmo Effect that a movie director plays after a Fist punches the opponent's face, to give more oomph to the attack
Hit Stun - I'm too lazy for more, really

The rest of this is just reading and thinking a bit.
For example, if your attack is "On Block = -15", that means the opponent can act 15 frames earlier than you, so an attack with 14 frames of startup ("Frames where the attack doesn't hit after one pressed the button") or less will be able to hit you during Recovery.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
For example, if your attack is "On Block = -15", that means the opponent can act 15 frames earlier than you, so an attack with 14 frames of startup ("Frames where the attack doesn't hit after one pressed the button") or less will be able to hit you during Recovery.

Your move is safe if it's not more negative on block than the opponent's fastest (lowest startup) attack.
Everything that's + or 0 on block is safe by definition (there can't be an attack with negative startup).
"Formula": IF FrameAdvantageOnBlock+StartupOfOpponentsMove >= 0 THEN ItsSafe

If you go through the Frame Data table, you will see that the fastest normal attack is a 5f s.LP of some characters, so anything that's -5 or better can't get punished *by normals*.
The fastest attack in the game is Bigband's SuperSonicJazz-Super, which has 2f startup and therefore can punish things that are -3 or worse (obviously this also means that everything -2 or better is safe against "everything").

Note that some things are safe despite not appearing as such (eg if your attack pushes the opponent far away or just has long range, it might be negative but still safe - for example Peacock's M.Bang attack is -9 on block, but will largely go unpunished since the opponent won't be in range to hit her), and 'everything' is possibly unsafe (despite looking safe) due to the presence of assists and PBGC (for example Parasoul's Bike super when she is in the corner is safe framewise, but since the opponent has time to PBGC, it is an easy punish).
 
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Rynozilla said:
So how do you determine if a move is safe or unsafe? Any kind of formula at all?
Basically, if you use a move that has longer recovery than it has blcokstun/hitstun, then the move is minus. If the opponent has a move that starts up in less frames than you are minus, you are punishable.
 
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The fastest jab in the game has 5 startup frames (Fukua's, iirc). So anything that is until -4 on block can be considered safe and can only be punished by BB's parry > s.lp.
 
Colossi said:
The fastest jab in the game has 5 startup frames (Fukua's, iirc). So anything that is until -4 on block can be considered safe and can only be punished by BB's parry > s.lp.
Actually, this game has moves that are active the frame after the startup. So, 5f jabs hit on the 6th frame. So you need to be -5 to be safe from those jabs (I know Filia and Fortune have 5f jabs, don't remember who else). And there are still super moves that startup faster than that, like Big Band's super which is 2f startup iirc.
 
Zidiane said:
Basically, if you use a move that has longer recovery than it has blcokstun/hitstun, then the move is minus. If the opponent has a move that starts up in less frames than you are minus, you are punishable.
So as an example. A move -6 on block, can only be punished by moves with an amount of startup frames in between 0 through 5 (like say Filia's s.LP, which has 5f startup)? But if you get hit by a move that's -6 on block, and you use a move with 6f startup, the opponent can block it? I think I get it now, hopefully I'm not wrong :x
 
Rynozilla said:
So as an example. A move -6 on block, can only be punished by moves with an amount of startup frames in between 0 through 5 (like say Filia's s.LP, which has 5f startup)? But if you get hit by a move that's -6 on block, and you use a move with 6f startup, the opponent can block it?
Correct.

(Aside from of course "if you get hit by..", which should be "if you blocked..")

And remember that the opponent can generally cancel their recovery into other normals / specials / supers, which might change the picture.
Eg Parasoul's s.LP is -6 on Block - but that doesn't matter much, since she can chain it into s.MK (which is 0)
 
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Rynozilla said:
Yay. Gonna have to check up on the frame data for everyone now... >.>
A good thing for now would be to just know that as long as you're at least -2 on block, you're safe from pretty much everything, though if you try and jump and they do a low, you could potentially get stuck and get low'd out of your jump (maybe, I think). I personally never bothered to check any more than that.
 
Zidiane said:
A good thing for now would be to just know that as long as you're at least -2 on block, you're safe from pretty much everything. I personally never bothered to check any more than that.
Ah, alright. Quick question. How do you manually check the frames in a move, in game?
 
Rynozilla said:
Ah, alright. Quick question. How do you manually check the frames in a move, in game?
In training mode, turn Attack Data to advanced, and when you do moves you'll see numbers at the bottom. The left number is startup, the right number is how +/- you are on hit/block/whiff.

Remember that when you do an instant jumping attack, you have to add 4f (I think it's 4) to the attack startup, cause that's what jump startup is. Also, Air Dashes add more frames, and different characters have different speed air dashes. And I think Isa said something about an extra frame when you air dash for something or other, I don't know what that other frame is for but it's probably there. So if your IAD j.hp says it's so many frames, it's actually those frames +jump startup +IAD startup +the extra Air Dash frame.
 
Just do what I do. Use your worst move on block, get punished for it, and then yell "That's not the button I pressed! Uggggghhhhh" even though it totally was.
 
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Zidiane said:
In training mode, turn Attack Data to advanced, and when you do moves you'll see numbers at the bottom. The left number is startup, the right number is how +/- you are on hit/block/whiff.
THAT'S what that is!? It's all coming together...

Thanks, Zid, Isa, Caio, and Colossi! All of my questions have been answered for now :3
 
Zidiane said:
I don't know what that other frame is for
You can't cancel the "0th" frame of the AirDash, only the 1st. So you need to count +1f of the Airdash.

AirDash Data, taken from the Wiki:
- IAD lockouts (longest to shortest): Headless Ms. Fortune (10f) > Peacock (8f) = Valentine = Eliza > Head On Ms. Fortune (6f) > Filia (5f)

Jump Startup is indeed 4 frames.

So eg a Filia IAD jLK is

4f JumpStart
+ 5f Filia Minimum AirDash Height
+ 1f AirDash startup
+ 7f jLK startup
= 17f total startup
 
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