I am frustrated...I need good, hard advice.

[blueberrymilk]

Hey all,

Been playing SG since it came out - I would play for months and months and be at a relatively respectable level then real life kicks in, I stop playing for a long while and I am back at beginner level save for a few match saving muscle memory moments.

However, I was never ever ever EVER good at teching throws. Throws are my absolute weakness - I can never guess the timing right even with the CPU. When I am online I grab the other dude before they get a chance to grab me a good bit, which I kinda hate since I feel like a spammer at times.

I just need some advice on how to get better. How did you guys learn to expect or "feel" when an opponent will throw you? This is pretty frustrating for me cause there are many many matches I lost because of my stupidly horrible sucky reflexes and I know I can do much better than that.

 

[Age]

I rarely attempt to tech throws. Usually I am trying to avoid or beat a throw attempt either by jumping or doing something invincible. If I don't have those options, I might tech a throw if I have a good sense of when it's coming based on experience.

Then again, I eat a lot of throws.

 

[Banazama]

Throw teching can't be done on reaction. No amount of reflex is going to save you from it. You have to anticipate when the throw is coming.
The best method of avoiding throws is to not get caught in a situation where you opponent can throw you. If you really want to tech, my advice is to look for patterns in the opponents game, and look out for set-ups or situations where a throw is likely.

 

[ClarenceMage]

which I kinda hate since I feel like a spammer at times.

This shit, stop thinking this way.

You are using a technique in a competitive game that your opponent has difficulty defending against - the goal of the game is to defeat your opponent. Why should you feel bad about doing something that helps you win?

http://shoryuken.com/2003/07/21/domination-101-on-cheapness/

 

[.42.]

If people notice that you always jump instead of tech you will eat a low into combo.

With experience you can predict when certain characters and players will go for throws.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

The two most common times a player will throw outisde a reset are right after they hit you with a light punch or a light kick, also known as a tick throw, the other being right as you tech off the ground, always be on the look out for the throws then.

As for throw resets, on the ground during an opponent's combo just hold up to avoid the grab if you think a throw is coming, and if you think an air throw reset is coming you can throw out a normal to stuff it or super.

 

[IknowReal]

what you should try to do is look for setups that lead to throws it will help.

 

[Zidiane]

I read "I feel frustrated... I need good, hard" and for a split second I thought... Nevermind, it's time to help.

You have to A) not be afraid to abuse a tactic that your opponent can't deal with, and B) get better at recognizing situations in which the opponent wants to throw.

A common throw setup is a crouching light punch or light kick and then grab. Another one is when they do a launcher, then delay a second before jumping. That's almost always a grab. Another is if they launch, jump after you, then don't attack immediately. That's very often a grab too. If you pushblock in the air, many characters will jump at and then grab you. Watch out for that one. Against Double, when she's doing Catheads, almost every player will wait until it's over for their grab attempt. Get familiar with that timing. Another grab attempt is calling an assist like hornet bomber or hairball or cerecopter, running up while you'r in blockstun, then grabbing. There are more situations, but hopefully those help.

Edit: a couple other ones. When someone is doing a juggle combo, they looks something like Parasoul's c.hp, j.lp, j.lk, j.mp, they leave you up in the air and they've landed, those are often grab setups. They could of course attack instead, but look for those. If players notice you jump back often, they could also pull that jump after you and grab. If that eats you up try to jump back with grab, there's little that they can do about it (unless you do it too predictably, like everything in this game).

 

[blueberrymilk]

This shit, stop thinking this way.

You are using a technique in a competitive game that your opponent has difficulty defending against - the goal of the game is to defeat your opponent. Why should you feel bad about doing something that helps you win?

http://shoryuken.com/2003/07/21/domination-101-on-cheapness/

I dunno, lol I get the feel like it's playing dirty in a sense; I had a guy message me after a fight and say, "you only won cause you kept grabbing etc" and it made me feel scrubby. :T
But you're right, I guess if you keep falling for the same trick you deserve to get beat.

 

[blueberrymilk]

I read "I feel frustrated... I need good, hard" and for a split second I thought... Nevermind, it's time to help.

You have to A) not be afraid to abuse a tactic that your opponent can't deal with, and B) get better at recognizing situations in which the opponent wants to throw.

A common throw setup is a crouching light punch or light kick and then grab. Another one is when they do a launcher, then delay a second before jumping. That's almost always a grab. Another is if they launch, jump after you, then don't attack immediately. That's very often a grab too. If you pushblock in the air, many characters will jump at and then grab you. Watch out for that one. Against Double, when she's doing Catheads, almost every player will wait until it's over for their grab attempt. Get familiar with that timing. Another grab attempt is calling an assist like hornet bomber or hairball or cerecopter, running up while you'r in blockstun, then grabbing. There are more situations, but hopefully those help.

Edit: a couple other ones. When someone is doing a juggle combo, they looks something like Parasoul's c.hp, j.lp, j.lk, j.mp, they leave you up in the air and they've landed, those are often grab setups. They could of course attack instead, but look for those. If players notice you jump back often, they could also pull that jump after you and grab. If that eats you up try to jump back with grab, there's little that they can do about it (unless you do it too predictably, like everything in this game).

Lol, you. naughtynaughty

Very familiar with the catheads and especially the hornet bomber and cerecopter, those are the most frustrating because they are painfully obvious yet I still get thrown 50% of the time. I am familiar with Parasoul's juggle combo because I do that myself lol. Probably too much, even.
As for the stuff I am unfamiliar with, thank you very much. I will try to stay alert and tryyyy not to get grabbbbed so much - pisses me off.

Thanks to all who posted! Hopefully if I play against any of you online you'll have completely forgotten my weakness. :v

 

[WrestlerGuile]

I was never ever ever EVER good at teching throws. Throws are my absolute weakness - I can never guess the timing right even with the CPU. When I am online I grab the other dude before they get a chance to grab me a good bit, which I kinda hate since I feel like a spammer at times.

Dude, its totally fine. I get my ass kicked on occasion and I suck at teching throws too(Solobella), but that's how the Z-man built the game. The point is: GRAB, COMBO, RESET, GRAB, RESET, 40-HIT COMBO, RESET, RESET, GRAB, 20-HIT COMBO, RESET, GRAB, RESET, GRAB, RESET, 50-HIT COMBO. The way the game was first built was simply: TOUCH...OF...DEATH!

 

[Dime]

Hey all,

Been playing SG since it came out - I would play for months and months and be at a relatively respectable level then real life kicks in, I stop playing for a long while and I am back at beginner level save for a few match saving muscle memory moments.

However, I was never ever ever EVER good at teching throws. Throws are my absolute weakness - I can never guess the timing right even with the CPU. When I am online I grab the other dude before they get a chance to grab me a good bit, which I kinda hate since I feel like a spammer at times.

I just need some advice on how to get better. How did you guys learn to expect or "feel" when an opponent will throw you? This is pretty frustrating for me cause there are many many matches I lost because of my stupidly horrible sucky reflexes and I know I can do much better than that.

You have to be able to remember the last 3-5 seconds of a match. After you get grabbed you replay the last 5 seconds or so in your head and look at the setup that they used to throw you. You remember the setup and the next time you see it you are on the lookout for that grab. NO ONE techs throws on reaction, its all educated guesses. If you see a player teching a lot of throws, one of two things is happening:


He is reading his opponent very well.
Or

His opponent is playing very predictably.


I rarely tech throws, mostly i just reversal through them or i jump them or i avoid situations that i can be thrown in.

And last... I just get thrown. Getting thrown isnt the worst thing in the world in even ratios. And i also allow myself to be thrown at high undizzy, a lot more, because the combination of high undizzy plus throw scaling means that the throw us literally the lowest damage hitconfirm they can do. In order to turn it into good damage they have to reset again... Becoming more predictable and also still riding that high undizzy, or they have to expend mass meter.

It isnt to say that getting thrown isnt bad, its just to show that throws, especially those used as resets shouldnt scare you as much as other options. Also, throws in general give way more meter to the opposing team... So remember and use that to your advantage with a fatty lvl3 combo or dhc..., or whatever.


But yeah man its all about remembering what your opponent does and countering it. Its called getting a "read"

 

[juju_for_president]

I dunno, lol I get the feel like it's playing dirty in a sense; I had a guy message me after a fight and say, "you only won cause you kept grabbing etc" and it made me feel scrubby. :T
But you're right, I guess if you keep falling for the same trick you deserve to get beat.

I totally get the feel that that kind of message brings, as I have gotten those kinds of messages too, but it is important to know that messages like that are like McDonalds French Fry: saltier than a salty sailor salting in a salt mine.

It is hard to take any form of criticism or negativity from fellow players, regardless of how valid it is. It makes you question your playstyle and just plain hurts. Despite this, it really is best to take a comment like that for the grain mountain of salt it is, and continue to play the way that gets you wins and/or is the most fun.

 

[Dagwood]

If people notice that you always jump instead of tech you will eat a low into combo.

With experience you can predict when certain characters and players will go for throws.

This.
if people are jumping all your throws, you just low them. But if you play someone who is really good at teching throws it's a lot harder to open them up. So teching is very valuable, I wish I didn't suck at it.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

However, a low won't hit someone who pressing up and not up back.

 

[wiredgod]

I will sometimes mash throw while I'm being hit by a combo. This sometimes will work to avoid resets, but its very punishable if your opponent knows you're doing it.

 

[dMags]

However, a low won't hit someone who pressing up and not up back.

Noob question, can someone explain why holding jump/back will avoid getting thrown but will get hit by a low attack? I always assumed a throw would come out faster than a low? Or is it simply that, when airborne you can still get hit by the low attack since it'll come out faster than you can jump away, but the grab won't catch anybody airborne? And furthermore, it doesn't make sense to me that a low would hit somebody holding back, but if they only hold up it will not hit them?

Lastly....how many frames until your character is airborne when jumping?

 

[Cynical]

A low will hit up-back because the pre-jump frames will get cancelled into a high block.

 

[dMags]

Why would it not hit somebody just hitting up then? Do the pre-jump frames not get cancelled into high block? so he just gets away clean instead

 

[Cynical]

The prejump frames won't get cancelled into a block if you're not holding a "back" direction.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but if you're at enough frame advantage that someone can't get off the ground before your low hits (they're still in block stun or prejump, or even very early in the jump so they're not above the hitbox of your low), they'll still get hit by the low.

 

[dMags]

Makes sense...

Ok last questions about this then I'll call it quits:

1. So then the reason the throw does not connect ( regardless if they hold up, or up+back ) is because the throw does not come out fast enough to catch the pre-jump frames? From what I've seen all throws are 7 frame startup, so the jump must come out quicker than that.

2. How many pre-jump frames are there? I'm sure it's listed one here somewhere just haven't stumbled across it yet

 

[Cynical]

1. Prejump frames are throw invincible.
2. Prejump is 4 frames.

 

[dMags]

1. Prejump frames are throw invincible.
2. Prejump is 4 frames.

Great, thanks for the help!