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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

I'm still holding out hope one of the remaining Incarnations will be a perfect fit to be voiced by Soviet Mike Z.
 
missingno said:
I'm still holding out hope one of the remaining Incarnations will be a perfect fit to be voiced by Soviet Mike Z.
are you kidding me? ALL of the incarnations are a perfect fit for Mike Z. We'll make it happen, don't you worry. The game will get funded and then we can send extra cash over the course of the next year to pay for the studio time needed for Mike to say all the lines.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
Go at it.
wow that is awfully troublesome to read to be honest

I think mike knows the basics of russian pronounciation, making it less complicated would be better. Or, you know, use google translate and use that transcript:

S vami Mayk Zi. Dlya tekh, kto so mnoy ne znakom – ya dizayn-direktor Indivizibl!
 
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infected melon said:
wow that is awfully troublesome to read to be honest

I think mike knows the basics of russian pronounciation, making it less complicated would be better. Or, you know, use google translate and use that transcript:

S vami Mayk Zi. Dlya tekh, kto so mnoy ne znakom – ya dizayn-direktor Indivizibl!
Tbh I'm not awfully good at it =/
It's hard to tell what's easy and what's not for non-russian speakers to tackle. And then there's Ы >_>
 
Kitty... sigh... your first sentence of your review doesn't make any sense... "It's just a prototype, but it's more than than." the first sentence shouldn't contradict itself.

Everything else is fine however.

A better example would be: "Despite this game only being a prototype it provides a surprising amount of creative gameplay designs that yields the desire for multiple playthroughs."

Edit: Sorry. HighSchool English classes have drilled this into my head for years. And now when ever i have to write something (other than stupid stuff here) i try to write it like it's a college paper.
 
Ninja said:
Kitty... sigh... your first sentence of your review doesn't make any sense... "It's just a prototype, but it's more than than." the first sentence shouldn't contradict itself.

Everything else is fine however.

A better example would be: "Despite this game only being a prototype it provides a surprising amount of creative gameplay designs that yields the desire for multiple playthroughs."
Could hiring you as a PR guy for L0 be a stretch goal? You're really doing work, man! Assuming you are a man of course.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
Could hiring you as a PR guy for L0 be a stretch goal? You're really doing work, man! Assuming you are a man of course.
yes i is dude. idk. look i would have to ask Mike really really really fucking nicely and hope that the stars are aligned. For right I'll just do work in the background and leave it up to the guys at Lab Zero headquarters. (yeah i know it's an office but headquarters sounds cooler.)
 
Ninja said:
Kitty... sigh... your first sentence of your review doesn't make any sense... "It's just a prototype, but it's more than than." the first sentence shouldn't contradict itself.
I wanted it to do that cause it doesn't feel like a Prototype =p It's a Prototype but feels like a game. Ja know?

edit:
upload_2015-11-25_8-21-10.png

I spy a lurker
 
Kit Ballard said:
I wanted it to do that cause it doesn't feel like a Prototype =p It's a Prototype but feels like a game. Ja know?
i knew what you were trying to go for. It's just that part of my brain just went red alert "Guh! No Poor English! Must. Fix. Now~!"

sigh... i'm sorry i didn't mean to come off as some jerk or uh... english nazi? your grammar wasn't off so i wouldn't be a grammar nazi... tsk.... eh, whatever. I'm going back to my cheese, warm blanket, and drawing pad.
 
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It's cool. I wasn't fully trying to defend it. I know my English skills suck. Never passed a single class. Dyslexia hits me pretty hard and made it hard to learn it proper ^_^''
 
Is it possible that people mistake the -prototype- for a -demo- because its visuals are fully polished? I haven't played many prototypes before but they always had the look of work in progress, with rough sprites and basic graphics
 
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Not-So-Saint said:
Tbh I'm not awfully good at it =/
It's hard to tell what's easy and what's not for non-russian speakers to tackle. And then there's Ы >_>
I think it's pretty clear what you intend by the notation you used. I don't know russian to compare what I think about the transcript to the correct thing but I like the way you did it.

Also: crowdcharts being fully broken at this time is very annoying. I remember somebody having a script or something and collecting data by themselves (I think it was @Vadsamoht ?). Are you still doing it? Can you share this data somehow? I'm really curious to see how much we're getting a day.
 
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chickenwithtie said:
Is it possible that people mistake the -prototype- for a -demo- because its visuals are fully polished? I haven't played many prototypes before but they always had the look of work in progress, with rough sprites and basic graphics
I think it more has something to do with a prototype being what developers give publishers or investors to have a taste of what the game could be, and most consumers not having publisher or investor experience. The only Prototype game I'd heard of before Indivisible was a complete title with a sequel; I have played plenty of demos, though, so a low-level consumer like me would think of the Indiv Prototype as a demo.
 
I believe Chasm had a prototype, but I can't recall if it was to aid in crowdfunding or encourage pre-orders.
 
dual techs might make some party combinations much more useful then others...but i'll trust mike z and the team
 
Lito said:
dual techs might make some party combinations much more useful then others...but i'll trust mike z and the team
Not only dual techs. Any difference at all in what party members can do makes optimized teams much more useful than some team combinations. And that's good for the game. What is the point of team building if every single team will be the same?
What you should be worried about is having some team that's inviable. And that's almost certainly not happening.
 
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chickenwithtie said:
Is it possible that people mistake the -prototype- for a -demo- because its visuals are fully polished? I haven't played many prototypes before but they always had the look of work in progress, with rough sprites and basic graphics
I've had similar thoughts, and it's probably true that some people get thrown off by this. However, I don't think it would have helped much if the prototype had been left in a rougher state either. Most of the people that have trouble understanding the concept of a prototype would have still had issues anyway, and simply shifted their criticisms elsewhere. "I can't back something that looks this unfinished." "I can't see these graphics looking as good as Skullgirls." "Why didn't they add more content?" "These are some lazy devs." etc.

Heck, you already got some people that say they can't back the game without seeing an idle sprite for every revealed character, so it's obvious that some people just have impossible standards that are better off being ignored.
 
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Ryin said:
Not only dual techs. Any difference at all in what party members can do makes optimized teams much more useful than some team combinations. And that's good for the game. What is the point of team building if every single team will be the same?
What you should be worried about is having some team that's inviable. And that's almost certainly not happening.
i don't want them all to be the same of course,i want different characters and teams to shine more in different circumstances. having some combinations being optimal in all occasions would be bad.

but even if it's not inviable,i'd be bummed if say,making a team with my 3 favorite incarnations meant having no dual techs due to those three not learning a singe one between them.
 
Kit Ballard said:
View attachment 12423
I spy a lurker
Oh, @Idiyanale is here!
Sup, man, how you doin?
chickenwithtie said:
Is it possible that people mistake the -prototype- for a -demo- because its visuals are fully polished? I haven't played many prototypes before but they always had the look of work in progress, with rough sprites and basic graphics
There's also this problem that prototype is actually DEMONSTRATING you things. Although it demonstrates proof of concept while demo should demonstrate complete game in its polished state.
Lito said:
dual techs might make some party combinations much more useful then others...but i'll trust mike z and the team
well, yeah. It's not as big of a problem as it would be for a multiplayer game. I won't be surprised if there will be one particular easy mode team that would be able to roflstomp an entire game. Hardcore players will avoid it anyways to have some challenge while less skillful players could use it to not get stuck and move story forward.
As for the fear that your favorite characters could make a clanky non-effective team - yeah, that's an actual possibility. That's why I prefer to not having one. On the other hand it provides you with the gameplay challenge of making this team work which makes it so much more satisfying.
 
Lito said:
i'd be bummed if say,making a team with my 3 favorite incarnations meant having no dual techs due to those three not learning a singe one between them.
This "I'm going to make a team with only my favorites, not consider anything else and just expect it to be good" mentality is not that good to have. I very much understand what it is like to want to play with your favorites, but I think it's much more preferable to make a team with one or two favorites and choose another character that complements said favorites' playstyle than just tack in three random people with no synergy and have your favorites look like crap because they don't have the support they need to shine.

Instead of making a team with your three favorites, make three teams specifically designed to make your favorites shine and do their best! This game is specifically being designed so this kind of experimentation isn't punishing.

Also: dual techs will be cool and all but synergies don't depend just on those. A well chosen buffer, meter gainer, juggler, etc might be even better than a character added just for a dual tech in team.
 
Ryin said:
text
I honestly disagree with that.

I believe that a team based single player game, should give the player the freedom to do as good with a combination of his preference. I'm not against some combinations based on sinergy or anything like that, but making it so much better that isn't worth playing with what you want is not cool.

If i want Ajna, Thorani, Phoebe and Zhara, i'll not be satisfied with Ajna, Thorani, Phoebe and Dhar.
 
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You can pick any three random characters in Skullgirls and form a team that works.
Some teams will work better than others, but any can get the job done if you put your mind to it.
Surely Lab Zero has not given reasons to worry about this in Indivisible.
 
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*below are my speculations on the matter

let's say each incarnation learns 2 dual techs...doesn't sound like much but that would be like 70+ dual techs to create,already a huge amount of work.

i really want Kushi in my team in this next dungeon, so i wanna pick one of the two characters she can tech with,pretend they are Baozhai and Lanshi.
but why just one if i can have two techs? i should choose both,or make another pair (Baozhai and Vasco or Lanshi and Razmi). therefore unless the game provides me any other incentive,i'm heavily discouraged to make any other combination using Kushi besides those 3. pretty limiting for me,and that's assuming a big pool of techs like i said...
 
Muro said:
You can pick any three random characters in Skullgirls and form a team that works.
Some teams will work better than others, but any can get the job done if you put your mind to it.
Surely Lab Zero has not given reasons to worry about this in Indivisible.
I actually thought about that, and i'm not worried, i was just showing my view in general.
 
Sotherius said:
I honestly disagree with that.

I believe that a team based single player game, should give the player the freedom to do as good with a combination of his preference. I'm not against some combinations based on sinergy or anything like that, but making it so much better that isn't worth playing with what you want is not cool.

If i want Ajna, Thorani, Phoebe and Zhara, i'll not be satisfied with Ajna, Thorani, Phoebe and Dhar.
I don't think you got my point and it's probably my fault for not making it clear enough.

I believe any team of three characters can be viable and beat the game without much trouble.

What I'm talking about here is about team optimization.

You can't just pick three random characters and expect any team like that to have a dual tech or some awesome synergy or ultra cool combos. You might hit the jackpot and have three favorites that work very well with each other. You might have two dual techs in your team of favorites. But you just can't count on a team made with no planning to have all the good stuff. The only way for that to happen is if every single character in the game had a dual tech/synergy/something for every possible team combination.

Muro said:
You can pick any three random characters in Skullgirls and form a team that works.
Some teams will work better than others, but any can get the job done if you put your mind to it.
Muro gets it.
 
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Ryin said:
This "I'm going to make a team with only my favorites, not consider anything else and just expect it to be good" mentality is not that good to have.
I strongly disagree. Picking your favorites and making them work and excel at it is the best thing ever, as opposed to picking what is generally considered "good and viable".

Kit Ballard said:
Dismember!
but I thought this was Indivisible...
 
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infected melon said:
I strongly disagree. Picking your favorites and making them work and excel at it is the best thing ever, as opposed to picking what is generally considered "good and viable".
Did you read the rest of the post? I said that I think it's preferable to build around fewer favorites and make them the star of the show. Rather than a character that's just there.

Indivisible is a game in which most of the customization will come in the form of party management.

Let me give you an example: I have two absolute favorite characters I really love. Both of them have their normals with different properties for juggling and stuff but they have one trait in common: they're both bad meter builders and their Iddhi attacks are exceptionally good.

I have two options:
- I put both of them together in the same team with a meter building slave being overworked to death and still not providing them with meter to have them to be excellent.
- Or I make two teams and switch between them periodically. Each of them taking advantage of each characters' particularities and have each of my favorites shine their brightest!

And this is completely disregarding overall "viability". They may be the characters that are considered the worst in the game. But I want them at their best because I like them.
 
Lito said:
let's say each incarnation learns 2 dual techs...doesn't sound like much but that would be like 70+ dual techs to create,already a huge amount of work.
[emphasis mine]

This is why I explicitly said "think Team Supers in MvC2 / 3", which I think a lot of people are ignoring? The way those work is:
For each character, which super they will do when you activate a Team Super is decided by assist choice. (Search for "variable combination" in here. I miss you, Kao.)
When you press Team Super, everyone jumps out and does their chosen super at the same time. There are basically no custom-made supers just for Team Supers, it's all up to the player's choice of available regular supers. (There are indeed a few custom ones for characters who do not have any supers that would work during a Team Super, like Rogue. But for characters that only have one super, like Juggernaut, you just get that super no matter what.)

A good analogue from Chrono Trigger would be Antipode, all the different levels are just combinations of spells Marle and Lucca already have.

So for Indiv, I see it as, each character might have a few different things they can do as part of a dual tech, and they choose from those depending on who they're doing it with. So if you do say Zebei/Tunger you get Zebei-A and Tungar-C, and if you do Zebei/Razmi you get Zebei-B and Razmi-A.

Depending on time there MIGHT be some custom-created combinations, but those would be a lot more work, and thus very limited.
 
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Not-So-Saint said:
I don't think that it's designer's responsibility to make EVERY possible combination work. I'd say if player Is bent on using particular team, it's on h(im/er) to make it work. Just KaneBlueRiver it lol.
it wasn't Lab Zero's responsibility to make skullgirl's balanced between picking 1,2 or 3 fighters in a battle. they could leave for people bent on soloing a character to try making it work against 3x their numbers. but because they made it it's equally fun for everyone.

that's my criticism ,custom-created limited dual techs it's a mechanic that makes some teams more fun than others,wich works against the strength of the huge cast.
 
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