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Killer Instinct - Series in General

Aganos looks helluva cool but GODDAMN HELLUVA hard to play.

I'll admit I love how crazy diverse characters in this game are (Skeleton, alien, demon, werewolf, golem, robot and a dinosaur in one game? Sounds more like "[...] walk into a bar" joke) and therfore I'm starting to see the initial appeal of the old games which I really never liked (never played them but the art style was a big "no" to me).
 
Watched the stream, still trying to wrap my brain around Aganos. The wall creation skill is very unique, it will be interesting to see this in action.
 
Holy crap ive been sleeping in this game hard..its got some of the best design ive ever seen in a fighting game as far as overarching system mechanics that work in turn with each other. Lots of design decisions that i completely agree with, and only a few that i dont.

Ki.infil.net

Is one of the best fighting game resource websites ive ever seen and congrats to infil on his hardwork to make it.
 
its got some of the best design ive ever seen in a fighting game as far as overarching system mechanics that work in turn with each other.
::feels justified in ignoring you::
<3

Ki.infil.net

Is one of the best fighting game resource websites ive ever seen and congrats to infil on his hardwork to make it.
This, though, I will totally agree with.
 
Yep im losing sleep over being ignored by you...lol.

Also, im ignoring lots of people on this website and have never felt the need to rub there face in the fact that im ignoring them, besides the first time i let them know.

But for someone that is being ignored, you sure seem to quote alot of my posts...

Not that i care either way, but, yeah.

Also, its rather "mature" of you to see something someone says that goes against your own thinking and use that as a justification for ignoring them.

Just makes you seem immature tbh. And i dont mind being ignored by immature people.

But since you decided to quote me and open this conversation, let me say this:


Perhaps you should stop clicking on that "show unignored content" button.
You wobt be affecting me in the least bit and may save yourself some headaches of having to hear about my "stupid" opinions.


Good day sir.
 
wobt
I'm legitimately curious what the design decisions are that you like.
Perhaps my view is distorted by the fact that I like a lot of things about the old KIs and the new one basically turned out like SF4 with autodoubles, but there are some things like counter breakers and potential damage carrying over that are good.
So if you wouldn't mind...?

[edit]I don't show unignored content much, but the front page little box still lists ignored people as having made recent posts.
 
Maaan, it was a typo... My fingers are to big and end up hitting the wrong key on the ipads keyboard alot.


I will try to keep this concise and to the point.


I didnt like the oldschool killer instinct 1 for a number of reasons, many of which i dont even know if it was just my lack of knowledge making the game bad or if it was just a bad game. In retrospect i should have given the game more of a chance than the 3 months or so of on and off play i gave it at the arcades... But quarters were expensive then and the alphas were out... The primary design decisions i hated about ki 1 were... No throws iirc, so the only way to break guard was overheads... I still wasnt used to being able to setup overheads seeing as to how i was a superscrub (like most other people at the time) but even whenwe could setup overheads... They just got reactively blocked 90% of the time, and then since they were like unsafe on block, you got punished for attempting them. This resulted in people just sitting there staring at each other mostly and trying to eek out chip life leads and random poke leads. Boring stuff.

The second thing i disliked immensely was the breaker system. I guess the big reason was that i didnt understand it at the time... And it would seem no one else did either. But suffice it to say that i thought that starting a combo and doing less than 10% damage for starter into autodouble, only to get hit by a 15% damage or more combo breaker.... Really just pissed me off and turned me off to the game as a whole, especially when it was super hard to open the opponent to a combo in the first place.

Ok sorry for that long windedness. But thats the attitude ive taken toward killer instinct for the past 20 years or so and sets up the next points to be made about why i like the game... At least from a theoretical aspect:


What i actually like about new ki:


A throw game that acts almost the exact way i would design one were i designing it myself. Throws are setup attacks that do a low amount of damage but put your character in a very advantageous position. I like this. Moving on, the throw game and what is accomplishable via throws varies greatly amongst the cast. Spinal for instance gets a free left right mixup off of throw, whereas glacius knocks the opponent away from himself and into glacius best range'... This is expected of good newschool games and most offer it decently, but it is an amount of forward thinking i wasnt expecting from killer instinct.

Further moving on, even though i like throws (i LOVE them actually) i dont believe in safe on wiff (unless you perfectly anticipate them) throws... At all. In new ki, throw wiffs are highly punishable via backdash or neutral jump. This is perfect to me and rewards via a kind of option select, to punish throws, since throws themselves are kind of an option select in themselves (they beat high AND low block) and finally i love the fact that crouchtech results in a standing throw attempt so no sf4 crouchtech os going on here. Id probably prefer the tech situation to be more like in sg... But that imho results in a slightly to strong low/throw game imho. But, i mean, we are talking degrees here.

Combo system:


Lockout and counterbreakers and manuals add much needed depth (in my eyes) to the combo breaker system. Then you add in special types of enders and shadow moves and the combo game feels very robust... To me. I never liked the idea of only using autodoubles for combos... In the old ki that got real old real quick. Whereas this new thing has so much 2 player depth... Even in combo. The only thing i would "dart board beta change" would be to give a certain (small) period of non combo breakable time at the beginning of a combo. That way the combo person has a chance to guarantee a followup and a mediocre amount of damage. But can opt to do a longer breakable combo should they want to risk the breaker. Probably wouldnt work in that exact form, but id try to find a way to make it possible via some highly inelegant bs if i thought it was worth it. I prize functionality over elegance where elegant solutions dont readily present themselves. So, perhaps something like a shadow starter gets a one unbreakable L autodouble. Balanced by meter and allows something guaranteed like shadow starter > autodouble > ender of choice... It might break something, it might not.

Characters:

I like shadow moves (ex moves) in general as i think they add alot of depth to the games they are in. Of course they are less ex moves than supers in ki... But they feel like ex moves to me.

I like the overall design of lots of the characters movesets. Lots of "tricky" complicated stuff... Like GG... Lol things such as combo having lots of fakes and different moves he can do from his dash punch, or things like spinal being able to hold projectiles and get buffed like that. Kan ra using a sand mechanic... Theres just so much depth to the game in the character movesets alone.


Dash buffer special:

Yeah i just like this. Especially since dashx2 is so ugly on these sf4 style fighters.

Instinct:

Im crazy in that comeback mechanics dont usually piss me off unless they are super over the top, or im so good at the game that i am almost perfecting people all the time which means i rarely get to use my own comeback (never going to be a problem for me :(

I find instinct to be super interesting to me as a comeback mechanic and a decently balanced one to boot. It gives the game more depth and allows for more cheap shit, albeit at a very low health point to balance it out, and it is different for everyone.


Mixups:

Like your own design, every character seems to have really good mixup options such as overhead/low or left/right which keeps the game moving and doesnt bog it down with staring contests, save for perhaps glacius since hes keepaway.



Overall:


Yes i totally agree that its kind of an sf4 clone. But it changes most of the shit i hated about sf4 and puts something better in its place so it actually becomes a kind of sf4.... That i actually like. There are still some design decisions that not everyone will agree with like invincible backdashes... But i digress, invincible backdashes only ever slightly made me salty. Backdashx2 with invincibility by the likes of chun and rose was much more soiling for me personally because they could so easily reset to neutral via that. So one thing i personally would do (another dartboard inelegant solution) would be to disable backdashx2 for a certain duration after a backdash completes... Say 15-30 frames or so or whatever feels right, i just dont like the disconnect with action that non attacking runaway seems to bring to fighting games.

I dont expect everyone to share my opinion though, we are all different and value different things.

I value speed, neutral and unreactable (1 off) mixups along with all the things that one would expect from a premium fighter such as balance and depth and good controls... Etc etc.


Im sorry if this is the stupidest thing youve heard today. But thats my opinion in general. There are more things i like, but they are smaller. And of course there are still lots of things i dont perfectly agree with.



Tl;dr:

There seems to be alot of forward thinking to the games design and the devs dont seem to be scared of making an inelegant design decision or 2 if it a functional problem solver (like heavy linkers requiring a hold input so as to not get out an ender... Etc etc)
 
DAT STAGE THEME, HNNNNNG

....too much of a bitch about jump scares to look at the screen for the ghost girl preview tho D=
 
DAT STAGE THEME, HNNNNNG

....too much of a bitch about jump scares to look at the screen for the ghost girl preview tho D=

It's actually not that bad at all. And this is coming from a guy who can't watch 2 minutes of FNAF or something without exiting out.

Ghost Girl herself looks alright. Maybe a little out of place.
 
Hmm, looking it over again, the way her walking seems soooo slow, with her dragging the katanaginata, gives me a bigger impression of her being a zombie than an actual ghost. In fact, the afterimage effects are the only think to make me think of a ghost at all.

Speaking of the walking, she does seem super slow. Maybe she'll be a slower-hitting character like TJ or Aganos. Maybe the screaming thing is part of the instinct, possibly like a scare-them-for-extra-hitstun thing, like Band's Sound Stun.
 
Honestly we shoudlnt judge her yet, since we only got a small tease. Though it would make sense for her walk to be slow, her dash may be another story haha.

Honestly i am excited for her,I love ju-on and the ring so that makes me love her. Plus dat ghost ass.
 
I think she looks great. When you think about all the different character archetypes in the game (some overused, but done in a new light in KI, and some that are daringly original), a Ju-on style ghost seems weirdly appropriate. I hope she's fast and scary.
 
The person with a Ragyo Kiryuin avatar appreciating ghost ass.
I am scarred for life.
Ass is ass.

Anyway, Aganos looks way better when you actually see him in play. I honestly thought he was meh at first, but i really grew to love the big lug
 
I particularly love the "story" the trailer seemed to follow, it was like an entire character story arc in one trailer and it was pretty hype! Makes me want to see some good Aganos vs Kan-Ra matches.
 
Speaking of the walking, she does seem super slow. Maybe she'll be a slower-hitting character like TJ or Aganos.
I keep thinking she'll be like a Slayer or Johnny type with lower than average base movement options but some tricks to get around quickly and then hits really hard when she gets the chance.
 
Dat flick doh brah.

Ghost Girl looks slow, but I can see her being punishing. Like a scream that puts you in hitstun with no damage, lots of painful grabs, some sort of quick dash. I dunno, there are a lot of options for evil ghost zombies.
 
Ghost Chick is officially Hisako
B_hK4YZU8AAvunq.jpg


Hisako's a "counter grappler" AKA amazingly slow, but can chain from her counters <high counter and low counter> and has to rely on counters and counterhits
She also has a teleport, and a command grab that uses a vaccum effect.

AKA a character type that hasn't really ever been done before, but is one i've wanted for a LONG time
 
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I might have just found my new favorite character.
 
We go from the biggest character to the shortest.
 
I love the character variety in the game but I hate the game.

If it was a normal game that wasn't hell bent on combos I'd be all over it.
 
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I love the character variety in the game but I hate the game.

If it was a normal game that wasn't hell bent on combos I'd be all over it.
Yep, same.
Plus there's just too much mind-games, I could never ever figure out what buttons are being pressed, so I doubt I'd be able to combo break, I don't have the stern stuff for it.
 
Yeah this character looks rad. Since I play DoA regularly as well the transition wasn't so bad when I first tried this game.
 
I could never ever figure out what buttons are being pressed, so I doubt I'd be able to combo break

Okay, so from what people have told me, you're not actually supposed to look at your opponent to see whether they're doing light, medium or heavy auto-doubles.

The real trick is to memorize how YOUR CHARACTER reels in response to lights, mediums and heavies and use that to judge which combo breaker to do.

Edit:
I might have just found my new favorite character.
And you just sported my new favorite Avatar
 
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Here's a better quality vid that goes in-depth on Hisako's moveset

We're all super tough guys, but just as a precaution, her pre-fight intro is a jump scare, so-uhh, warning
 
spooky ghost girl with a character specific meter AND shark teeth? i may have to get an xb1.

also i played KI for the first time at pax east at iron galaxy's booth. seems fun. :)
 
also i played KI for the first time at pax east at iron galaxy's booth. seems fun. :)

Same. It was my first time using a fight stick, so I had kind of a hard time, but it was still really fun. Hope it comes to PC eventually so I can pick it up.
 
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Dear KI, please come to PC since Hisako seems super boss, but there is no way in hell I'm buying an XBone.
 
pls Microsoft, i'd buy 2 PC version copies if it meant i could play as Aganos

ok, I wouldn't, but still
 
For we poor PC users, there is this tiny, tiny glimmer of hope (link):

An official poll gauging interest.
 
It will probably come to PC eventually just like Dead Rising 3, but probably not until they are done adding new content. They want to use this for the XBO benefit as much as possible since exclusives push units.
 
It will probably come to PC eventually just like Dead Rising 3

Actually they have no obligation to do this. Dead Rising 3 was a third party property, and therefore could not be kept indefinitely exclusive. KI, however, is a first party Microsoft property.