Let's Make Painwheel Not Bottom Tier

[antiglow]

Ok title is a bit pointed, (I know). But she definitely needs to be looked at again in my opinion.

I know there are some posts on this topic in other more general threads but I could not find a focused thread on the topic. So I would like to make this a focused source of suggestions on changes players want to see to Painwheel.

I love this character, how she plays, and I learned how to play Skullgirls with her. But she is unnecessarily hard to play in my opinion and struggles in many areas of the game. She is constantly put near the bottom of everyone's tier list for good reason and is talked about by cloud, dakillsage, and other steamers as needing a few changes to make her "up to date" with the rest of the cast.

From what I have found,

Cloud has recommended:

• changing her install to be a level 1
• change her light buttons to have more hit-stun and be a few frames faster
• general quality of life changes for all of the weird situations she gets into often
• Buer to be less negative
• giving her a "drone assist" (he did not go into much detail on this)

as among the few changes he would implement if able
(source: twitch cloudking211. August 3rd 2022 ~1:37:00)

If anyone can remember the video/stream where dakillsage talked about this please post a source + date + timestamp. I know it was talked about in the past on one of his steams.

I agree with a lot of Cloud's recommendations and think the drone assist idea is an interesting one and would love if he could expand on it here if he is still posting. (I don't know how active this form is anymore)

Other change Ideas

• in an attempt to make her combos and hit confirms easier, KK for flight. This should make combos and confirms with flight cancels in them easier to do consistently. This would make it so a harder flight cancel like 214P, 9MK would become KK 9MK-- much easier to do.
• 2HP (charged) to deal a ground break AOE. This would allow it to hit behind her and be a possible good counter to some of the faster characters.
• jHK to have a little more stun to allow cross-ups with the move to not drop as often in odd situations
• change the way the stingers work to L,M,H instead of hold time
• jHP make it so it does not drop low to the ground.
• all buers to go a little further so they do not drop in combos at mid range as easy
• bring back pinion dash to make things interesting or replace it with a different new interesting move
• allow charged moves as assist options

I am definitely not the best player and don't play in tournaments but those are some changes that I have thought about when playing her.

I would like this thread to be an open discussion on changes to Painwheel others would like to see in future updates.​

TLDR: How can we change painwheel to make her not bottom tier?

steam version of the topic here

 

[Ikkisoad]

First, she is not bottom tier.

changing her install to be a level 1

HI is really strong as a lvl 2, I can't see how this is necessary.

Buer to be less negative

It being less safe than some DPs is sad, it being -18 is not really detrimental cause you never want to use it on block but I agree that it could be made less punishable.

2HP (charged) to deal a ground break AOE. This would allow it to hit behind her and be a possible good counter to some of the faster characters.

2MP is pretty good to deal with airdashers.

change the way the stingers work to L,M,H instead of hold time

Can you elaborate?

allow charged moves as assist options

Yes please.

Some ideas thrown out on beta-discussion were around making her have a unarmored light, I'm down on having a 8F light that doesn't have armor so it is easier to throw out a fast button on punishes or scrambles.

Buer hitbox buffs would be interesting, although it wouldn't be only a consistency buff, but a damage buff. But considering 2HP > Buer is range dependent that buff might not be too crazy?

I'm down for discussing new ideas but for me she is pretty good and doesn't need many changes.

 

[antiglow]

2MP is pretty good to deal with airdashers.

I'm not talking about using the 2HP (charged) as an AA or as a replacement for 2MP but more as an armored counter where you expect to take a hit. For how long the charge is, it being a simple armored very close range overhead seems weak especially when the opponent can quickly move behind you (intentionally or not). Also, I think her having a ground break visual would pretty cool.

Can you elaborate?

Currently it is tricky timing to get mid stingers and they are almost never used because of it. Changing the arc stingers to 214(L or M or H)P for 1, 3, and 5 stingers (keeping the same time requirement) seems useful. However thinking about it more that would leave one of the variants with an odd motion like 22(L or M or H)P for straight stringers which would feel pretty weird to input for a projectile. This was pretty low on my bucket list tbh.

(also added a point on flight to the original post which I think would be the best QOL improvement she could get -- KK for flight, making motions much easier in many of her combos and confirms)

 

[Ikkisoad]

an armored counter where you expect to take a hit

It can and is already used like that, if you want more range you can use 5HP or 2HK. But again if you expect them to jump over you, cMP is pretty good.

 

[antiglow]

It can and is already used like that, if you want more range you can use 5HP or 2HK. But again if you expect them to jump over you, cMP is pretty good.

yeah, I am talking about improving it. Also, cMP doesn't autocorrect so it suffers from the same issue.

 

[CaioLugon]

increase death crawl hitbox
make the hitstop on thresher last until after the bigger hitbox becomes active
overall metergain increase
give L buer a real hitbox (maybe decrease damage on 2hp and 6hk to compensate)
bring back point pinion
allow charged moves as assists
make 2lp 7f and remove the armor on it, and make 5lp have armor start in 3f