Marie Alpha/Beta Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Cattfish]

This thread is to keep tech, questions, bugs, feedback, and miscellaneous discussion about Marie's ongoing gameplay development in one accessible location for HVS.

>>>>> This is NOT a thread to discuss balance changes or feedback for characters other than Marie. <<<<<​

Marie's Alpha release was announced for October 18th, 2023.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714421431763615882

You may find (and contribute!) fun, silly, and informative footage of Marie using #SG_MAR on Twitter. Show us what you've got!

Standard FAQ:​

Q: I want to talk about colours for Marie!
A: This is not the thread to talk palettes ideas at length, sorry.

Q: When will the wiki contain information regarding Marie?
A: The wiki will be updated when Marie is released. Ask in the official Skullgirls discord for gameplay advice about Marie, but keep in mind it will be too early to have definitive advice for a while.


With those out of the way, feel free to bring your excitement into the thread!

 

[Ikkisoad]

Marie doesn't get horn looped as easily as other light weighted characters, having DH whiff after 5LK 2MK is a new kind of drop for me:

 

[PME]

Marie sHP > Early L Hilgard Punch on hit works on all characters standing except for Squigly and Annie

Hilgard just whiffs

I don't mind the characters it whiffs on crouching, but having it whiff in a combo on those 2 feels weird

 

[CaioLugon]

From a "first" impression of her kit, here's what I'd like to see get looked at:

5hp and jhp 2nd hit pull - 5hp L haymaker whiffs on thinner characters and some characters crouching, and less pull on jhp should also make the jhp haymaker setups and routes more consistent and universal.

Changing her inputs - 236p = haymaker, 236k = howl, 214p = twirl, 214k = bunny - A couple people mentioned her specials feeling weird, namely with haymaker being on kicks, this came up as an potential alternative and I think it does feel better than the current ones.

Throw conversions - Its really looking the blandest throw in the game without any form of midscreen follow-up without some super specific bunny setups. I wish you could do M or H twirl to convert, or if anything just giving you sliding kd. Tbh any throw in this game not being able to start a combo or at least give you a strong setup feels very out of place in this game imo.

2hp xx 214hp whiffs - This is just a really cool string but its really inconvenient to make it work since they're usually too high for the hitbox on 214hp to reach when you cancel immediately or you tend to go under them if you delay it. Might have to adjust too much to make it work nicely but figured I might as well mention it.

214hp taking up stagger when it hits airborne opponent - Feels pretty weird. I get that this is supposed to be a 'once per combo' type move and its just the second version not staggering but idk if that's really necessary, especially since it doesn't really do a lot of damage, but I suppose its fine either way. Thankfully the max undizzy command grab is going away so thats already more freedom to route combos with it.

214mp - Really wish it did more damage. +1 on block and linkable is really good tho so idk.

214lp losing fleshstep property - I guess she'd be fine without a command cross-up but I think it fits really nicely into her kit and I'd like it to stay, and besides what would this move even do if it didn't cross-up? If it was faster could be a cool 'run' cancel I guess.

236pp - This super is kinda weird, the max scaling damage is CRAZY, especially being a single hit move, and setting up hilgard or bunnies before the super also leads to some cool scenarios, but it's not a reversal, it's really weird to dhc out of, and what is up with that overhead property? Seems kinda crazy to spend a bar for an overhead that you get nothing from but still dies if it's blocked. I guess it's pretty cool as a little random extra property but I'm not sure what the "point" is, design wise.

236kk - Post flash jumpable grab sadge. I'm a huge fan of how this super looks and feels and acts, but being reactable also puts it in a pretty weird spot. Saw people saying it should be a hitgrab but that would be insane for dhcs and meter dumping. Maybe could work if it only slammed twice.

I've been stuck to 4g for the past few days and couldn't really play proper sets so that's all I have so far.

Marie is a blast to play!

 

[PME]

Changing her inputs - 236p = haymaker, 236k = howl, 214p = twirl, 214k = bunny - A couple people mentioned her specials feeling weird, namely with haymaker being on kicks, this came up as an potential alternative and I think it does feel better than the current ones.

Personally, I'm fine with Marie's actions being on P, and Hilgard's being on K

BUT I do wish one of the 2 sets of directions would be swapped, so that the "why I 'outta" moves (Shoulder tackle and Hilgard Punch) share the same direction, and the "projectiles" (bunnies/laser) would as well share directions in turn.

+1 to the sHP > L Punch working universally, at least on everyone standing

 

[Xyned]

This characters gameplay flows really well even for day 1 of me playing her.
one thing id hope for that im going to repeat is that i hope Her specials get remapped.
Im hoping for Hilgard to get remapped to QCF and QCB Punch and Bunnies and Marie's Twirls being remapped to the kick buttons respectively. This would match up consistently with Bella and Double's side swap inputs, and would make it so Peacock and Marie both share their extremely obnxious sentient projectiles as QCF kk. hilgard has a big ass punch so it confuses me when his input isnt a punch button.

 

[Façade]

Found a bug with Marie's Hilgard Assist
byu/wellthathappened43 inSkullgirls

I find this worth sharing here.

 

[Liam]

Marie sHP > Early L Hilgard Punch on hit works on all characters standing except for Squigly and Annie

Hilgard just whiffs

I don't mind the characters it whiffs on crouching, but having it whiff in a combo on those 2 feels weird

5hp and jhp 2nd hit pull - 5hp L haymaker whiffs on thinner characters and some characters crouching, and less pull on jhp should also make the jhp haymaker setups and routes more consistent and universal.

Planning to fix this soon. Ideally Hilgard stays further backwards when he gets too close to the character.

I find this worth sharing here.

This should be fixed now, thanks for the cross post.

---

WRT inputs, I'm not sure about shaking them up yet. It's one of those things I'd prefer to get a large sample size of feedback on like a poll or something. There's only a few comments about it so it's not much to go on for a change that's going to impact everyone, but I do think if there's a time to change inputs around, it's early on in the release compared to later!

 

[Agent Five]

Signed up for Marie, Ive been waiting for her for a long time.

It would be fun if she had more supers. Only 3 compared to Annies 6ish is a little dry but hey Skelegrab is a level 5 right? So i wont be too bummed

However I think its disappointing that Marie in second encore doesn't have anyway to interact with downed bodies. Its such a cool mechanic that's only in team games Valentine lvl 5, Umbys lvl 3 and even Elizas bite is super cool. (even snaps)

I thought that with Mobile Marie being super connected to bodies, and her playstyle speculation said she would

vacuum up the corpses of the fallen to increase her own power. ​

that the encore one would have something related obviously. Im not saying that that she should be a puppet character or something extreme. However none of her supers even move bodies or get powered up by there being a lot of bodies. I actually just assumed ever since we saw her use the give me all your energy spirit bomb that it would use up bodies for a power up or wake up teammates or something because it was a big bad lvl 3. I hope she gets something shes the big boss titular necromancer Skullgirl after all. I'll settle for anything.

 

[Nuuance]

Signed up for Marie, Ive been waiting for her for a long time.

It would be fun if she had more supers. Only 3 compared to Annies 6ish is a little dry but hey Skelegrab is a level 5 right? So i wont be too bummed

However I think its disappointing that Marie in second encore doesn't have anyway to interact with downed bodies. Its such a cool mechanic that's only in team games Valentine lvl 5, Umbys lvl 3 and even Elizas bite is super cool. (even snaps)

I thought that with Mobile Marie being super connected to bodies, and her playstyle speculation said she would

vacuum up the corpses of the fallen to increase her own power. ​

that the encore one would have something related obviously. Im not saying that that she should be a puppet character or something extreme. However none of her supers even move bodies or get powered up by there being a lot of bodies. I actually just assumed ever since we saw her use the give me all your energy spirit bomb that it would use up bodies for a power up or wake up teammates or something because it was a big bad lvl 3. I hope she gets something shes the big boss titular necromancer Skullgirl after all. I'll settle for anything.

this all day. but only different thing id say is rather than just being a damage increase...feel like thats a bit...old. Would like if maybe her specials or utility moves got more utility or additional slightly EX functions.

 

[Liam]

Interacting with bodies heavily skews her towards needing to be played on a team and de incentivizes solo play in a pretty heavy handed way, so we erred away from it as a pivotal gameplay mechanic in 2nd Encore. I still would like to try and give her the corpse explosion super from SGM at some point if we can squeeze it in there in time. I do like corpses getting sucked up by Lv3 but it might be really tricky to implement.

At the moment we're pausing some Marie stuff while people get used to her and focusing on balance changes, now that most of the bugs that I'm aware of for Marie are taken care of.

In other news - quick read of the room: How is Hilgard's Haymaker feeling post changes?

 

[ReyMercury YT]

Interacting with bodies heavily skews her towards needing to be played on a team and de incentivizes solo play in a pretty heavy handed way, so we erred away from it as a pivotal gameplay mechanic in 2nd Encore. I still would like to try and give her the corpse explosion super from SGM at some point if we can squeeze it in there in time. I do like corpses getting sucked up by Lv3 but it might be really tricky to implement.

At the moment we're pausing some Marie stuff while people get used to her and focusing on balance changes, now that most of the bugs that I'm aware of for Marie are taken care of.

In other news - quick read of the room: How is Hilgard's Haymaker feeling post changes?

RE Hildgard:
It feels SO much better!
Before it was weird and inconsistent to the point i straight up gave up trying to lab the character.
After the first Hildgard patch i was able to lab MCHs and OTGless routes with jM Hildgard and lowkey doing jM Hildgard loops is one of the most fun things this character has (combowise). He feels really good now!

 

[CaioLugon]

first impression

Following up on this now that we've had some time with marie.

So my general view of this character right now is that she feels REALLY strong, like top 5 strong. I know a lot of people disagree, but the way I see it right now, she has very good neutral (a lot of good buttons and summons can just give you a turn for free, on top of some of the best air mobility in the game), very good pre-hit mix (good lows, good OH, command grab and L twirl), very good post-hit mix (H haymaker can give her unmashable 50-50s with insanely high reward), high damage, high meterbuild and a lot of good assists, she excels at pretty much everything with her only downsides being awkward dhcs in and out and subpar defense, both of which get mitigated by lv3 being really good and options like summon xx super dhcs, H twirl + assist and 2mp. The nerfs she got so far all felt like the right direction, and I still think H haymaker might need some starter scaling to avoid it becoming item drop vortex 2.

But with that being said, here's my notes on individual things:

Changing specials - As much as I'm used to her inputs by now, some specials definitely still feel weird, I'd still be very open to try changes. More importantly though, I'd really appreciate if Haymaker could take priority over bunnies when doing special+assist (twirl still having priority over laser).

Throw - Normal throw feels even worse now with the command grab nerf. Throw xx H twirl should definitely just work imo. Also, is it a bug that her air throw is stage 1? I think everyone else's is stage 2, but I'm not complaining.

2LP - jhp H haymaker jmp 2lpx6 drops on double and val (I think i've had it happen to other characters in some ranges too). Hurtbox issue and not really a problem but would be nice if this could get looked at.

jHP - The second hit whiffs a lot after the first one connects. Situations like the jhp H haymaker string can feel like a toss-up whether or not I should neutral jump sometimes since it becomes very range dependant.

214P - Would be nice if the M version was a bit faster to improve consistency on the otg 2hk M twirl string and to help differentiate it from the H version, both are 22f now so it feels a bit weird. Also would like for some of marie's damage to be shifted into both versions of this move, it looks and feels really heavy but the damage is kinda low. I'm very biased towards these tetsuzanko kinda moves so I just want it to feel more rewarding to route into and use in general lmao. Still definitely think H should be better at hitting people airborne like after 2hp or during double snaps.

236K - The changes to haymaker were great! Setups and combos all feel more consistent now, but one issue I found was that bigband still drops out from 2hp L haymaker during happy birthdays. Also as I mentioned above I feel like H haymaker setups might need to force some scaling as a starter. You can already get incredibly hard to block unmashable setups and max UD vortex for free, having a 1200 dmg unscaled stage 1 starter from it feels like a bit much.

236LPLK - 100% agree with grab triggering burst. Don't love feeling like I don't have a throw option at max UD but it's definitely fine.

236PP - The damage nerf felt right, especially considering how easy it is to loop it. Still feels pretty weird with the instant hkd, OH property and being really awkward to dhc from but I guess it's fine.

236KK - Still don't like that you can react to it but I think it would be too big of a buff now. Hitgrab could maybe be an option?


Like I said before, marie feels very strong right now, but it's mostly in a good way and I'm really enjoying playing her. Really looking forward to her coming to retail.

 

[Calexe]

English is not my main language

Most of my feedback is the same from Lugon but I want to add some other things.

Spoiler: Feedback?

cHK > 214MP could use some adjustment to make the link more consistent.
IMO right now this link is pretty awkward to do with specific range and characters

Niche one but would be cool if we could cHP > 214MK/LK > 236PP in midscreen, at least once.
Nothing to say about this one, just creating another possibilty to her to dump meter without 3 bars or stagger needed.

Throw > 214HK may be a cool option to convert, just like how Air Throw > j.214HK makes the beam come out faster.
This option will give Marie a way to convert off throw but not for free, using otg or maybe assists?

Another one kinda niche but would be helpful, adding some weak hit sound-effect to her 236KK super.
Since 236KK has reduced damage when you slam in the same direction, it could be reflected in-game just like her jMK

I think I'm very satisfied with last Marie changes, she seems definlty in a strong place.
She may need a QoL here and there, but I feel like she's very solid right now.

 

[Agent Five]

Interacting with bodies heavily skews her towards needing to be played on a team and de incentivizes solo play in a pretty heavy handed way, so we erred away from it as a pivotal gameplay mechanic in 2nd Encore. I still would like to try and give her the corpse explosion super from SGM at some point if we can squeeze it in there in time. I do like corpses getting sucked up by Lv3 but it might be really tricky to implement.

At the moment we're pausing some Marie stuff while people get used to her and focusing on balance changes, now that most of the bugs that I'm aware of for Marie are taken care of.

In other news - quick read of the room: How is Hilgard's Haymaker feeling post changes?

I really hope you are able to add her SGM super, it is very cool.

I agree with Lugon pretty much all the way. ( jhp, hilgaurd scaling, throw, changing specials.)

 

[Liam]

Marie is nearing her Early Access release and we've got clean frames for every move, hurray! We'll probably do a few more changes but I think for the most part Marie is settling down since it seems like most people are enjoying her as is.

We'll see if there's any other feedback after the holiday break as we prepare for console submissions in the new year.

Also just to note, her command grab going to Stage 3 instead of Stage 2 last update was a bug. If it's not listed in the update notes, it's probably an oversight! Not my intention to ever stealth nerf things.

(Except that one time I removed midscreen Dynamo conversions which existed for a tournament patch and I never told anyone about it because I didn't want anyone to find it... mwahaha...)

 

[the_rpg_king]

Marie is nearing her Early Access phase already? Wow, time sure flies. I hope the next update brings more of her palettes too. I am looking for her targeted Orie palette.

 

[Liam]

Marie is nearing her Early Access phase already? Wow, time sure flies. I hope the next update brings more of her palettes too. I am looking for her targeted Orie palette.

The EA update should include all of her remaining palettes!

 

[the_rpg_king]

The EA update should include all of her remaining palettes!

Holy crap! That's awesome! As soon as this drops, I'm gonna be looking through all of Marie's new palettes in search for her Orie palette. But sadly, I won't be going full blast on the Early Access build on the laptop I am using because after looking at the specs, I have learned they are not good enough for Skullgirls and other Steam games to run smoothly, so the best bet is to get a high-end laptop that has better specs. I might or might not be able to get it before Marie is fully released. I just wish console versions get Beta branches, but it's not possible.

 

[Will]

Been playing Marie since day 1 since the Alpha dropped and its safe to say she's turning into one of my favorite characters to play. I've really enjoying her and can't wait to officially add her to my team when she's fully released. That being said, there are some things I'd like to give feedback on from my time playing her. I know I'm late to the party and I'm no top level player or anything so take what I say with a grain of salt but I figured I'd drop my two cents anyways and see where things go from there. I've never been one to complain much since I always try to work with what I have with a character even if certain aspects of that character feel bad to use but there were a few things that I noticed about Marie that I feel like needs changing or should be looked at:

* 236PP (Carpel Pummel) - This super is pretty good. The only problem that I generally have with it is that it causes a hard KD on hit, if not immediately DHCd out of into a super that you can continue to combo with. I normally wouldn't have too much of an issue with this but as some people have already mentioned, Marie feels very awkward to DHC into. There are some work arounds I've found like DHCing into 236KK (Repetitive Skeleton Impact) as long as I have enough time to continue the combo afterwards but seeing that this super is categorized as a command grab and not a hit-grab, I shouldn't have to explain why this is not good. There are also things like Sniper super (Parasoul) > 236KK (Repetitive Skeleton Impact) which if timed right, can allow Marie to continue the combo since the crumple will hit before 236PP hard KD canceling it out but this feels too hard to pull off consistently in real games and not everyone plays Parasoul so they won't have access that potential option anyways. With all that being said, I propose that we change the hit effect to either a ground bounce, crumple or whatever other hit effect that would allow enough time to pick-up from the initial hit. In my opinion, I feel like this would solve the issue of her being awkward to DHC into since now she'll be able to actually combo from other characters instead of doing awkward work arounds. Is this a good idea? Not entirely sure since the only other thing that I can think of would be to change 236KK (Repetitive Skeleton Impact) into a hit-grab and I'm not entirely sure if that would be a good idea or not. All I'm saying here is that I find it kinda silly that Marie literally has no ways to combo DHC and that just doesn't feel good.



* Throw - This move feels terrible to use mid-screen and it doesn't help that Maries command grab is 7 frames slower than her normal throw. Her command grab is still pretty solid but like I said, it's kinda slow and much easier to react to. While you are able to set-up a free Hilgard + Dust bunny summons with her normal throw on hit, the fact that she has no way meterless way to convert from it is kinda strange to me. There are work arounds like setting up dust bunnies during a combo then going into a throw reset immediately after or you can do something like: Throw > 236PP (Carpel Pummel) > DHC which should help to convert into a combo from mid-screen but there in lies to problem. I shouldn't have to set anything up just so my basic tools are able to function and I shouldn't have to spend 2-3 bars of meter just to convert off a basic throw which is also heavily scaled mind you. As far as I know, outside of characters like Fukua, most of the cast can convert from their throw meterlessly from anywhere on the screen, so why is Marie the exception? With all that being said, I believe there's a way to alleviate this issue that make sense to me. As someone has already mentioned, it might be a good idea to give her summons like [L] Hilgrad faster startup and shorter recovery, similar to her airthrow. This should give Marie enough time to convert with 5hp or any other move, given she has enough time to dash up. The only other way I see Marie being able to convert from her throw mid-screen would be to change the hit effect of her 236PP into a crumple, ground bounce etc. but I generally don't like this idea too much since I feel like it'll just turn into Fukua 2.0 and having to depend on resources to convert which I don't like the idea of. Again, not entirely sure if this is a good idea or not but its the only thing that I can think of that makes sense to me



These are the main two things that stood out to the most and anything else I could add someone probably has already mentioned. Didn't mean for this post to be super long or turn out to be a wall of text so I do apologize for that but I also wanted to go into as much detail as possible so whoever sees this understands where I'm coming from. But yeah that's all I got for now. Like I said before, take what I say with a grain of salt and any criticism are always welcome

 

[the_rpg_king]

It has come to my attention that I heard Marie is entering Early Access tomorrow and the post on X shows what palettes Marie will get, but still no sign of her Orie palette.

 

[DEMACLIO]

Been fiddling around with Marie for a little bit now and the only pain point I feel is jMK > jHP on most light characters. This drops consistently as the character will fall behind Marie without very specific spacings and delays, which feels like it hurts a lot of her combos and setups that work on other characters. I have some alternate setups and combos to make up for this, but even those drop from jHP sometimes and I have to use different strings before the setups which feels like they're more telegraphed. This could entirely be a skill issue or intentional interaction for balance reasons since I haven't seen anyone else talk about it, but I thought I'd send it through anyway after fighting a solo Annie and feeling like most of my combo/mix options just weren't working :P

 

[the_rpg_king]

I receieved word that Marie is gonna simultaneously release in all platforms March 26, which is four days from now, and this is the ultimate release we've been waiting for. And that's where I come in to look through her last several palettes that won't make it into the Beta in search for her Orie palette as first priority. If I don't see it, it will stay on my palette pack idea.