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Marvel vs Capcom 2

Ok.....so i want to make a team around spiderman....cause i like spidey. Which assist would benefit him?

I have many theories on a game i havent played yet and thought i should ask
 
Hmmmm...this thread huh? I remember wasting too many years into this game for nothing. But if somehow I do end up flying to NEC and I see Mahvel setup, I guess see my Akuma/Dictator/Random (I forgot who I rocked in last but most likely Counter-Pick).
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Ok.....so i want to make a team around spiderman....cause i like spidey. Which assist would benefit him?

I have many theories on a game i havent played yet and thought i should ask

Spidey has okay jump ins and cross ups so maybe Dr. Doom chipping people while he dances on their heads?

That being said, I only recommend playing low tiers against other low tiers or in a mixed tier ratio kind of ruleset. It can be fun to explore the worse side of the tier list, and the game has such great fundamentals that's still a fantastic time, but don't expect to go low tier hero in this game against people who know how to play.
 
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Squire Grooktook said:
Spidey has okay jump ins and cross ups so maybe Dr. Doom chipping people while he dances on their heads?

That being said, I only recommend playing low tiers against other low tiers or in a mixed tier ratio kind of ruleset. It can be fun to explore the worse side of the tier list, and the game has such great fundamentals that's still a fantastic time, but don't expect to go low tier hero in this game against people who know how to play.
I dunno, I believe there may still be some undiscovered tech or strategy. Theree's just so manny different combinations/possibilities that it's hard to imagine there aren't.
 
Covenant said:
I dunno, I believe there may still be some undiscovered tech or strategy. Theree's just so manny different combinations/possibilities that it's hard to imagine there aren't.
There's 15 years of research put into it, though. We even know that Kobun-G is almost a viable character with Doom rocks.

At this point it's pretty set that low tiers are garbage either because of too-low health, not good enough mobility, a lack of being able to open people up, or poor damage, with mobility being at the top of the list. The way you win with low tiers is by having gimmicks other players don't know.

Spidey has all of those problems.
 
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rip my childhood not knowing Spidey was such crap... Maybe that's why those teens at the local movie theater were able to smash me in. that and maybe it was because I had RockMan and either Ryu or some other random character on my team.
 
I say play the character you wanna play so long as you have fun with it.
I like Ruby Heart on my teams, and from what I've heard, she has terrible assists as far as I know, and I don't care.
you wanna play Spidey, just play Spidey.
 
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i played spidey cause I was only 10 and i was dumb and he was like one of the few guys I saw and was like "I love Spider Man, his comics, his cartoon show, his Spider Butt... what?"
 
Mike_Z said:
There's 15 years of research put into it, though. We even know that Kobun-G is almost a viable character with Doom rocks.

At this point it's pretty set that low tiers are garbage either because of too-low health, not good enough mobility, a lack of being able to open people up, or poor damage, with mobility being at the top of the list. The way you win with low tiers is by having gimmicks other players don't know.

Spidey has all of those problems.
I was speaking in general. The guy made it sound like all possible tech was found. I just don't think 15 years of decreasing research with a subset of characters is enough to find all of it. Most of it, sure. Perhaps even a vast majority of the useful tech, but just not all of it. I think there could be a few more viable teams. Tis all.

That's said, I don't think having a gimmick is enough to win consistently; I also don't think gimmick is the right term, but that's a discussion for a different thread. I think it's more about the long term viability of said gimmick. Whether it is reliable, can be done consistently, and is difficult to counter is all that matters imo.

I didn't know kobun with any assist was considered viable.
Then again, I got into the game pretty late (ps3 release) and apparently a lot differs between it and other versions
 
Covenant said:
I was speaking in general. The guy made it sound like all possible tech was found. I just don't think 15 years of decreasing research with a subset of characters is enough to find all of it. Most of it, sure. Perhaps even a vast majority of the useful tech, but just not all of it. I think there could be a few more viable teams. Tis all.
It's more that all USEFUL tech is found. It's certainly not true that only the top tiers have been explored.
Sure, if some glitch exists in a new version that makes Dan able to kill you in one touch from anywhere then that's a thing, but outside that type of esoteric junk it's all done.
There is certainly tech that's under-used, like with Doom vs flying Sentinel if you do air super and he attempts to fly above it you can DHC to your next character and the camera will drag Sentinel down into the beams during the superflash without him being able to block, but in most cases, like I said, lack of options compared to the god-tier is what keeps most characters from mattering. All of the god-tier characters except Cable can do overhead/low/left/right mixups, all of them can do 100% damage, and they either have mobility options that let them run circles around everyone else or in Cable's case anti-mobility options that mean a lot of characters just can't do anything.

I mean, you can hope for whatever you want, but as someone who has played the game since release, the character imbalance is gigantic.
That isn't to say you can't WIN with non god-tier teams, but you have to significantly outplay your opponent in order to do so. In which case, if you played a better team, you'd do even better.
 
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Not everything has been found, but we're I to wager a guess I'd say that, based on the current meta/where the game is at, around 98% has been found at least. And that's across literally millions of hours and tons of combo videos and tournament play across 15 years. People were going very hard on mvc2 because it was the only new thing out for a long time.

But those aren't really the things to think of... What you REALLY want to think about is do you really have a chance to find something that makes a low tier not a low tier when so many other people have tried for so long? Say there are a few teams and/ or assist strategies that haven't been found that are say high mid or lower high tier... Do you REALLY think you have any chance in hell of finding them? There's minions of combinations out there and every one that lends itself to any kind of theory fighter approach has already been tried extensively. The only thing left to be discovered is completely oddball out of left field stuff.. And even most of THAT has been discovered.

Now, its completely possible to make a mid tier team that can beat high tier teams if you have good gimmicks, are a great player and play against sub par players... But other than that... Your chances of winning the lotto are probably higher than making some secret unknown top tier marvel 2 team.

The only further way to make progress with regards to unknown teams is to change the meta of the game. At that point, were it to happen, things would be reevaluated and new things found when applied to the new meta.

But first you have to beat the current meta... Not an easy task at all and would basically require you to find something so strong as to stand the top tier on their heads or bring about a new top tier... That's what you are basically trying to do by trying to find new top tier stuff.

Good luck..
YOULL NEED IT! (Smash TV reference, haha)
 
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Mike_Z said:
It's more that all USEFUL tech is found. It's certainly not true that only the top tiers have been explored.
Sure, if some glitch exists in a new version that makes Dan able to kill you in one touch from anywhere then that's a thing, but outside that type of esoteric junk it's all done.
There is certainly tech that's under-used, like with Doom vs flying Sentinel if you do air super and he attempts to fly above it you can DHC to your next character and the camera will drag Sentinel down into the beams during the superflash without him being able to block, but in most cases, like I said, lack of options compared to the god-tier is what keeps most characters from mattering. All of the god-tier characters except Cable can do overhead/low/left/right mixups, all of them can do 100% damage, and they either have mobility options that let them run circles around everyone else or in Cable's case anti-mobility options that mean a lot of characters just can't do anything.

I mean, you can hope for whatever you want, but as someone who has played the game since release, the character imbalance is gigantic.
That isn't to say you can't WIN with non god-tier teams, but you have to significantly outplay your opponent in order to do so. In which case, if you played a better team, you'd do even better.
Fair enough, though by no mean did mean to imply that only the top tiers were explored. I do believe that as they were found to be top tier that other characters were explored considerably less.
And it could very well be that I'm more hopeful than I should be. I suppose I just prefer to stick it out with characters I actually like and try to learn more about them. I mean there's a point when you have to ask yourself (or rather that I have to ask myself) "how much do I really like this game when I have to choose characters I don't like to stand a chance?" I just choose to at least try instead of assume that there's no other way. There's not much to lose really.

Dime_x said:
Not everything has been found, but we're I to wager a guess I'd say that, based on the current meta/where the game is at, around 98% has been found at least. And that's across literally millions of hours and tons of combo videos and tournament play across 15 years. People were going very hard on mvc2 because it was the only new thing out for a long time.

But those aren't really the things to think of... What you REALLY want to think about is do you really have a chance to find something that makes a low tier not a low tier when so many other people have tried for so long? Say there are a few teams and/ or assist strategies that haven't been found that are say high mid or lower high tier... Do you REALLY think you have any chance in hell of finding them? There's minions of combinations out there and every one that lends itself to any kind of theory fighter approach has already been tried extensively. The only thing left to be discovered is completely oddball out of left field stuff.. And even most of THAT has been discovered.

Now, its completely possible to make a mid tier team that can beat high tier teams if you have good gimmicks, are a great player and play against sub par players... But other than that... Your chances of winning the lotto are probably higher than making some secret unknown top tier marvel 2 team.

The only further way to make progress with regards to unknown teams is to change the meta of the game. At that point, were it to happen, things would be reevaluated and new things found when applied to the new meta.

But first you have to beat the current meta... Not an easy task at all and would basically require you to find something so strong as to stand the top tier on their heads or bring about a new top tier... That's what you are basically trying to do by trying to find new top tier stuff.

Good luck..
YOULL NEED IT! (Smash TV reference, haha)
That's fair enough. And to answer you question, yes. I do think I have a chance, not a big one, but it's there and I'm choosing to take it. I enjoy the game and the characters enough to try. I appreciate your well wishes :)

Just for clarification, I'm not against high tiers. I'm just against playing as characters I dont like. I have no issue with using either Sent or Psy as an assist since I like their characters but suck playing them point. And I actually like storm as a point character. Even then, that's, at most, one god-tier point and one universally good assist. I literally have no choice but to explore the game more if I want complete enjoyment from it. Even if I never find new tech, I'm sure I'll get better at the game and have a pretty good gameplan.
 
Covenant said:
"how much do I really like this game when I have to choose characters I don't like to stand a chance?"
Keep in mind that if you aren't playing one of like...300-400 people worldwide at this point, you can pretty much pick whoever you want.
 
Mike_Z said:
Keep in mind that if you aren't playing one of like...300-400 people worldwide at this point, you can pretty much pick whoever you want.
.....point taken. Though I suppose it doesn't help that most of the people I've played with (like three people lol) I've played in person and in my first matches I was essentially traumatized by blackheart shananigans...
Online is a probably a different story, but I've only done so maybe twice.
 
As I said before, low tier only matches or mixed tier ratios (ie both players agree to pick 1 top tier and 2 lower tiers) are a thing, and very fun. Marvel Vs Capcom 2 is an amazing game at high tier, high level play, but it's also a really great game with low tiers too.

High tier mvc2 > Low tier Mvc2 > every other fighting game

Also beware of the "I don't like the top tier cast" mentality. The 8+ viable characters have enough variety and playstyles that no matter what kind of playstyle you like, you should be able to find something that corresponds to your style. The top tiers are also very deep and have lots of options, and combined with teams, you have a vast number of options on how you play any one character.

Tl:Dr: Marvel 2's creation was guided by the hand of God.
 
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Squire Grooktook said:
As I said before, low tier only matches or mixed tier ratios (ie both players agree to pick 1 top tier and 2 lower tiers) are a thing, and very fun. Marvel Vs Capcom 2 is an amazing game at high tier, high level play, but it's also a really great game with low tiers too.

High tier mvc2 > Low tier Mvc2 > every other fighting game

Also beware of the "I don't like the top tier cast" mentality. The 8+ viable characters have enough variety and playstyles that no matter what kind of playstyle you like, you should be able to find something that corresponds to your style. The top tiers are also very deep and have lots of options, and combined with teams, you have a vast number of options on how you play any one character.

Tl:Dr: Marvel 2's creation was guided by the hand of God.
I mean...I have the game and played it. I enjoy it. But it's not just the playstyle, it's the variatioin of that style as well as character themselves. I don;t avoid top tier for the sake of avoiding them, I legit happen to just not like playing as them. Even if it's generally a playstyle I would like, the variations within most of the top characters aren't to my taste and just dont feel right. Out of the top characters/assist I only like Storm as a point and Psy or Sent as an assist. But two characters doesnt make a team in mvc2, so I always end up with a mixed/low tier team.
 
considering an entire mid-tier team won Mahvel3's evo this year, you can probably say that while tiers are important, you can still play characters you want to play.
going by EventHubs' tier list.
 
I got my hands on an old PS2 copy of MvC2 awhile ago and have been playing it a ton. Only thing I can really say: The character imbalance in it is truly legendary. Despite your quite fair opinion @Squire Grooktook, I can't agree that having such imbalance creates good gameplay. You essentially have chunks of the cast that aren't viable at all and ones that work too well, but the cut off between which ones are good and which ones aren't isn't exactly equal, so you get situations of a bunch of Top Tiers I honestly don't really like all that much and a bunch low tiers I love but can't play effectively because they don't string togethor well. Yes it creates little leagues and challenge for building competent teams, but I feel it should be a case of like SG, where EVERY char can be good, so long as you use an effective assist and know how to play. Character imbalance like this shouldn't be praised. The game's mechanics and all the neat things you can do, however, I can totally get behind praising, becaue its still hella fun.
 
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SanoBaron said:
considering an entire mid-tier team won Mahvel3's evo this year, you can probably say that while tiers are important, you can still play characters you want to play.
going by EventHubs' tier list.
The games are so unrelated that this comment is meaningless, though...if you can land one hit 3x in MvC3 you can win. As evidenced by the entirety of the finals.
 
I know characters can get blown up easily if you're good enough but c'mon now.
it's not Virtua Fighter. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
I tried to make mid-low tier teams possible... but to win with one, it's just not possible. Not saying you can't take a game or two off a top player, but you're not going to win an entire tournament.

And I played spider-man
 
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North888 said:
Character imbalance like this shouldn't be praised.
This is such a scrubby mentality. MVC2 has what is known as balance of playstyles, not balance of characters, where different playstyles are balanced and you have characters that can all play different styles, where you have heavy rushdown with Magneto, heavy zoning with Cable and so on and so forth. Yes the top tier negate just a bunch of characters and that's kinda wack, but if you're looking to play competitively then you have to realise that some characters are better than others, and if you're playing to win you have to take those differences into account.

Then again the skill floor of the game is pretty high and playing it casually against an amazingly high number of people, your character choices will not affect the results of your matches. That's how it goes for all fighting games.
 
North888 said:
Character imbalance like this shouldn't be praised.

I never praised the imbalance at all. In a perfect world, everyone would be viable in mvc2. But Mvc2 is still a game that transcends the mortal realm in its divine beauty, balanced roster or not.

Also, "high tier" mvc2 basically consists of 10 characters.

Skullgirls has 14 characters now, and had 8 when it started. Blazblue had 10 when it started as well.

That's not too shabby a roster size, especially considering that team combinations effect your playstyle A LOT.
 
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Eh. I more look at it like this: MvC2 has enough characters total that the fact that it's suuuuuuuuuper imbalanced means there end up being a handful of viable characters instead of just 1 or 2.

I certainly wouldn't praise the overall design from a balance perspective. I praise it for a lot of other reasons - fun, playstyle variety, seminal implementation of the assist mechanic, 3v3, snapbacks, DHCs, and changing dizzy damage directly into undizzy was brilliant - but it still has a smaller percentage of viable characters out of the entire cast than many other games do, even ignoring Kobun and Roll.
They made a huge number of intelligent decisions, and a huge number of lucky mistakes, that ended up helping the game survive. It's a great game, but tell it like it is...there are more than a few design mistakes also, like Sentinel having the highest defense in the game. There are also several things that would make the game better if they were fixed like anywhere doublesnaps, unblockable laser, and DHC unblockables.

Don't get me wrong, I think the balance of the god tier characters is something every game designer aims for, but that's the end result rather than the intent of the designers. Always remember that a huge amount of the resulting balance is luck.
 
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No denying Mvc2 is a happy accident.

That being said, I think one of the reasons it turned out so well is that beneath all the lucky mistakes, there are some really good fighting game fundamentals on display with the characters. If you play it low tier vs low tier, the matches still have great pace, feel smart, have a lot of depth, great spacing, etc. etc. even without all the broken stuff.

I think Mvc2 is great because its a combination of the great oldschool Capcom design fundamentals that made all their old fighters great, and some really amazing accidents that created a very innovative and over the top game.
 
Oh yeah, I fully admit the game is a total joy to play. I just feel that the balancing issues outweigh some of the other positives. Maybe its cause I'm so used to SG, which did a number of things with a far more refined and improved style, but I just don't see it being considered as highly as it is.

Either way its a ton of fun and one of the only games my other friends will play with me cause I play mostly low-ish tiers and they're always using the high tiers, so constantly getting that feeling of stomping out giants in terms of balance is fun.
 
North888 said:
but I just don't see it being considered as highly as it is.

It's often stated, that to see the true Mvc2, you should start learning the high tier characters. They are deeper than the deepest ocean.

Low tier mvc2 is fun too. Playing that for a while with friends, I really appreciated that even Mvc2-lite is an amazingly deep and good feeling game.
 
I can already say I don't have the attention span to learn the high-tier chars. I'm trying to improve in a number of other games, and MvC2 mostly serves as my friends game with which to beat me in for wanting to play who I like over who's actually good D:
 
Heheh. I might have to. It's a case where I can't get them to play fighters with me cause I always win XD

Either way, I do love the game and the deepness of bundling the game's assist and such is impressive. I'm glad too see many of things that games like SG improved upon.
 
Yeah. I find it tied with SG though. Mvc2 still has its own unique feel and some strengths which no other game replicates IMO.
 
Oh yeah I can totally feel it. It's great. Given my own personal disposition, I would have to relegate it to the side, but if I had more time or other games I was a bit more interested in, I'd definately want to spend some serious time learning the game. Its more or less a casual fighter for me atm though. Still a ton of great fun :D
 
Anyone know how I can get MvC2 for PS3? I had it for the original XBOX, and miss it so much.
 
loonieboy9697 said:
Anyone know how I can get MvC2 for PS3? I had it for the original XBOX, and miss it so much.
The PS3 version? Or just one that you can play on your PS3? Because if it's the former, they don't sell that anymore. You'll have to either gameshare with someone, or buy a code off of ebay (an unopened box for MVC2 PS3 is $100+). If you have a backwards compatible PS3, you can play the PS2 version, which is only $25-35, or you could CFW your PS3 and play either of them for free.
 
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So my team might be Spiral/Cyclops/Sentinel. Spiral builds a fuckton of meter for Cyclops to chip with and I can easily DHC into the bot when I need to. Does this sound like an effective team or no?
 
Kankato said:
So my team might be Spiral/Cyclops/Sentinel. Spiral builds a fuckton of meter for Cyclops to chip with and I can easily DHC into the bot when I need to. Does this sound like an effective team or no?
What assists are you using?
 
I mean, it's essentially team duc do with gene splice instead of whateverthefuck cable's dp is called. Just get good at sword traps and the team's fine. You lose out on tk viper beams, but whatevs
 
MVC2 is the game that most clearly shows that playstyle/strategy balance matters much more than character balance. The top 10-12 characters have so many unique strategies available to them (that can't be replicated at all by the low tier characters) that they end up just feeling like they're apart of a different game from the rest of the cast. Low tier marvel is fun but top tier marvel is so far beyond it, that no one really cares that low tier MVC2 exists.
 
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alexpi said:
I mean, it's essentially team duc do with gene splice instead of whateverthefuck cable's dp is called. Just get good at sword traps and the team's fine. You lose out on tk viper beams, but whatevs
Well the thing is I like playing Spiral and Sentinel but I don't enjoy Cable and most Spiral teams are built around making Cable amazing. The big question is should I run Cyclops 2nd and DHC into Sentinel or run Cyclops 3rd and find ways to set up HSF loops?
 
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