Mashing Supers

[Jason]

It favors fortune way more than it does Filia.
Imo anyways

Yeah, she doesn't even need to spend meter, which Filia does if she wants to get a big combo off of a reversal.

 

[Pali]

Prime example even when you think you're safe a mashed super can somehow beat everything. 11:04, a big thanks to the person who showed this video as a example after watching this "high level play" it was probably like 20+ mashed supers that were risky and made no sense to do but just thrown out for yolo.

Pretty much i'm going to have to change my play style to cater to scrubby play.

 

[Krackatoa]

It's not like he thinks there should be no such thing as mashing reversals in the game lol.

It's the fact that it favors filia over others
i.e: Bella mashing-> only leads to combo in corner, can't be done in the air
is there any team in the game that wouldn't be better with Filia on it?

New Gregor isn't that good. Loses to a lot now.

Prime example even when you think you're safe a mashed super can somehow beat everything. 11:04, a big thanks to the person who showed this video as a example after watching this "high level play" it was probably like 20+ mashed supers that were risky and made no sense to do but just thrown out for yolo.

Pretty much i'm going to have to change my play style to cater to scrubby play.

Eh, a lot of instances there were simply guaranteed punishes. Remember, these supers ARE frame 0, so they're easier to hit stuff on reaction with.

It's an issue that's been around for a while, and we've all kind of dealt with it.

Don't want to get mashed on mid-combo? Don't drop your combo.

Don't want them to mash during your airthrow/frametrap? Burst bait. Good bait setups can't be reacted to. Parasoul has a bunch of these.

Don't want them to DHC? Reset them where they have no options. Air-resets are a big deal where appropriate.

Cover with assist.

OS with Painwheel Armor (PW+Low Assist) is pretty gdlk, catches supers, and leads to a high-low mixup.

Also, keep an eye on PBGCs. Seemingly safe strings are vulnerable to more than supers. Honestly, supers are generally the least of your worries during pressure, because a light attack leads to far more damage than any super can.

 

[Dime]

Mashy offenders imho:

Filia gregor (buttons and motion are the same... Literally the least amount of thought in the game cause she doesnt even have to switch supers when in the air or on the ground)
Painwheel (airsuper is crazy good mash, deathcrawl as pbgc is crazy good mash, both kinda braindead, one goes to full combo, one dhcs to full combo or safe on block)
Fortune (just like painwheel except her supers have bigger hitboxes and her level 3 is comparable in braindeadness to filias gregor mash... But at least fortunes blows 3 levels for guessing wrong)
Bella (bellas diamond dynamo is by far the most braindead/good ground super mash in the game... Makes gregor and ferserker look tame by comparison, especially when followed up by a safe dhc)

And after that there's less mashy shit probably the most mashy after those high end offenders is like val with bypass super or double with car super.

Imho

 

[dekillsage]

Person airdashes and does an attack that misses.
Gets super'd for fucking up.


Ooooooh look at that mash!!!

okay lol

 

[Pali]

I respect peacock players the most tbh cause they have to play with thought, when it comes to the higher top tier they are the easiest to get the W with and don't require as much thinking. Even when i play my main team i can tell its easy mode and other lower level chars can't do anything about it.

 

[Pali]

Person airdashes and does an attack that misses.
Gets super'd for fucking up.


Ooooooh look at that mash!!!

okay lol

You're a offender yourself so of course you would agree with it.

 

[Jason]

I respect peacock players the most tbh cause they have to play with thought, when it comes to the higher top tier they are the easiest to get the W with and don't require as much thinking. Even when i play my main team i can tell its easy mode and other lower level chars can't do anything about it.

You know Peacock has like.. the safest reversal in the game right now, right? MP Bang is so damn good. Its not perfect (its not throw invincible and only hits in front of her) but its really hard to punish and puts your opponent at full screen when it hits to start her zoning all over again, she can pretty much throw it out whenever she wants.

 

[Dime]

You know Peacock has like.. the safest reversal in the game right now, right? MP Bang is so damn good. Its not perfect (its not throw invincible and only hits in front of her) but its really hard to punish and puts your opponent at full screen when it hits to start her zoning all over again, she can pretty much throw it out whenever she wants.

Completely true. And mp bang just might be the best damn pbgc in the game. No skill required, no meter required, safe on block for 2 meters... But no one needs those 2 meters when pbgcing through hitconfirm blockstrings.

Fucking sword. Gah.

 

[dekillsage]

You're a offender yourself so of course you would agree with it.

Of course. I got tired of being scalped -> tod'd for trying to spend a bar to get someone off me.

 

[Pali]

You know Peacock has like.. the safest reversal in the game right now, right? MP Bang is so damn good. Its not perfect (its not throw invincible and only hits in front of her) but its really hard to punish and puts your opponent at full screen when it hits to start her zoning all over again, she can pretty much throw it out whenever she wants.

Having one good reversal does not make her any sort of top tier... that's the least they could give her. When you actually catch her shes practically a training dummy and in this game with a good a assist you can get in on anyone.

 

[Pali]

Yeah cause you're a mashing super scrub and i don't respect your playstyle. Maybe it's because i come from fighting games that don't permit that sort of random behavior, i grew up on proper games Cvs2, Mvc2, Soul Calibur etc there was no mash super get a BNB.

This is just how new FGs are, baby mode/pick a char thats good watch a youtube video learn a quick easy setup.

 

[StripeyBoosh]

It's not like he thinks there should be no such thing as mashing reversals in the game lol.

It's the fact that it favors filia over others
i.e: Bella mashing-> only leads to combo in corner, can't be done in the air
is there any team in the game that wouldn't be better with Filia on it?

But realistically speaking Filia's supers are relatively easy to read most of the time,
and there are huge consequences for her if she screws it up.
I get what you're saying.
Yes, it sets up for a combo,
but knowing the danger should only make you more aware that the special is coming.
You have to actually adjust your game each match. In a nutshell this is crying over spilled milk.

 

[NCV]

You just named all scrubby games, play me in mvc2 or umvc3. You can't mash on those buddy, SF4 also.

LOL sf4 the game with dp fadc into ultra and where you can't (traditional) safe jump on 3f dp's and 1f links that everyone mashes through. I'm glad you're back bc this is awesome.

 

[Pali]

LOL sf4 the game with dp fadc into ultra and where you can't (traditional) safe jump on 3f dp's and 1f links that everyone mashes through. I'm glad you're back bc this is awesome.

Dps can be baited easier than a super in SG, a random super in skullgirls can be done at any point in time and since the start up is so fast if you hit any sort of button "even if you aren't next to them" you get hit into a combo. I'm sorry but one is dumber than the other. If someone has 2 meters you're pretty already aware they can dp to ultra so its easy to bait.

 

[blufang]

Hmm as solo squigly, there is really no super to mash. Better be good at blocking.

 

[WarpedEcho]

Dps can be baited easier than a super in SG, a random super in skullgirls can be done at any point in time and since the start up is so fast if you hit any sort of button "even if you aren't next to them" you get hit into a combo. I'm sorry but one is dumber than the other. If someone has 2 meters you're pretty already aware they can dp to ultra so its easy to bait.

Supers can be baited easier than a DP in sf, a random dp in street fighter can be done at any point in time especially when you mess up your 1-2 frame links. And since the start up is so fast (3 frame) if you hit any sort of button "even if you aren't next to them" (have you seen sf hitboxes?) you get hit into fadc ultra combo. I'm sorry but one is dumber than the other. If someone has 2 meters you're pretty already aware they can super dhc to combo or safe pressure so its easy to bait.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Hmm as solo squigly, there is really no super to mash. Better be good at blocking.

Mostly agree but there are sometimes situations where you can Daisy Pusher. Whiffed grabs can't be cancelled into anything so if you're really sure they're gonna reset with a grab you can Daisy Pusher that. Against characters without an air dash or air super, if you see them jump at you with buttons you can Daisy Pusher that as well. But for the most part yeah holy shit Squigly's reversals suck

 

[Number 13]

Well this thread needs a major cleanup. Not to mention thread derailed hard. Kind of saw this coming.

*grabs the mop*

take the hint and don't make me grab the mop

 

[KhaosMuffins]

I mashed a girl and I liked it.

 

[KhaosMuffins]

I try to mash out of PBGC and I can confirm that it does not work
Hate everyone who can easily PBGC like it's nothing. ;-;

 

[Jason]

fuck man i missed pali.

the hype is back.

Why would you miss having this troll around?

Seriously there's a real problem with this community when this sort of thing generates "hype".

 

[Spencer]

Mashy offenders imho:
Painwheel (airsuper is crazy good mash, deathcrawl as pbgc is crazy good mash, both kinda braindead, one goes to full combo, one dhcs to full combo or safe on block)

I can combo off of both.

It is possible, at least in training mode, to lk.buer after deathcrawl, but the timing on it is super tight. Enough so that I can't stick in a regular match though I admittedly haven't practiced it much.

 

[RemiKz]

My opinion on the subject and not addressing the beef going on:

I find it rather disappointing that mashing supers is a completely viable option at high level play on top of being so rewarding if it hits and can be safe given the fact that a lot of people are carrying safe DHC's now. Heck, the metagame seems to have steered into a direction of building your team around a way to mash a super and transition into a DHC to either stay safe or confirm off the super actually connecting.

With that being said, there are definitely ways around it. Burst baits are deadly and will almost always result in a dead character because of the counter-hit damage on top of getting the extra stun for a longer combo.

Just really sucks that the game "feels scrubby" with everyone throwing out supers like derps and getting away with it. IMO

 

[Jason]

Just really sucks that the game "feels scrubby" with everyone throwing out supers like derps and getting away with it. IMO

Daigo hits a reversal DP FADC Ultra and wins a match and everybody says he's the best FG player to ever exist.

Solobella hits a reversal Level 3 and wins the match and everybody says this game 'feels scrubby'.

A read is a read. If it works, you've got no reason to apologize, if it gets blocked and punished and you lose well you paid the price.

 

[Dagwood]

Daigo hits a reversal DP FADC Ultra and wins a match and everybody says he's the best FG player to ever exist.

Solobella hits a reversal Level 3 and wins the match and everybody says this game 'feels scrubby'.

A read is a read. If it works, you've got no reason to apologize, if it gets blocked and punished and you lose well you paid the price.

Theres a difference..

-Blocking in SF4 isnt a death sentence.
-SF4 isnt based around resets

 

[GirlyStyle]

Just really sucks that the game "feels scrubby" with everyone throwing out supers like derps and getting away with it. IMO

I think what would help with it is if people began to adopt a less immediate heavy pressure oki after winning initial neutral;

part of the problem is people go full balls immediately after winning the neutral instead of just chilling and seeing how people respond/react on wakeup. very few players actual condition/learn how their opponent acts.

you've already proved you can win the neutral and there is a whole big chunk of the game left to save your reset shit so if people just start convincing people to chill on their wakeup then you can open them up later. but right now people always go for set up immediately

 

[RemiKz]

The difference being the SRK FADC has to be done at like point blank range while most supers you tend to mash in SG have a pretty wide reach or travel a good distance.

You will rarely ever see someone mash out something like a super or an ultra in SF4. Although that mostly has to do with SRK FADC being a lot safer, much like how people are throwing out supers into safe DHC's right now.

A read is only a read if its actually a read. In the case of something like Cerebella's lvl 3, more often than not its just the other guy throwing a hail mary and hoping it lands, while still being safe on block.

 

[Pali]

Daigo hits a reversal DP FADC Ultra and wins a match and everybody says he's the best FG player to ever exist.

Solobella hits a reversal Level 3 and wins the match and everybody says this game 'feels scrubby'.

A read is a read. If it works, you've got no reason to apologize, if it gets blocked and punished and you lose well you paid the price.

I dont think daigo is good at all in fact hes a scrub too, those reads cost him EVO trying to be random with dps that crap doesn't fly. Playing solid is way more important than being a random scrub.

 

[Pfantzypantz]

I dont think daigo is good at all in fact hes a scrub too, those reads cost him EVO trying to be random with dps that crap doesn't fly. Playing solid is way more important than being a random scrub.

I was liking the sass and the salt, but aint nobody gunna insult my boy Umehara.

 

[wiredgod]

If you're so predictable that an opponent can mash instant super on you with the risk of losing a meter plus taking a full punish, why shouldn't the opponent be allowed to hand your ass to you? Not to sound like a dick, but this is called making a read.

Thats pretty cool tech, unfortunately when you're actually in a match most good players are not easy to read. If you did those set ups and he didn't mash super you would be open for free punishment. Mashing super is its own 50/50 especially if you can DHC out to something safe.

This part bothers me more. Someone found a counter to mashing super, but you poured cold water on it b/c you get screwed if they don't mash super. I mean, do we want a 50/50 situation or a 100/0 one? People usually have a stronger point when they are forced with situations that have no options.

Bottom line, make better reads and hold the salt

 

[Spencer]

If you're so predictable that an opponent can mash instant super on you with the risk of losing a meter plus taking a full punish, why shouldn't the opponent be allowed to hand your ass to you? Not to sound like a dick, but this is called making a read.



This part bothers me more. Someone found a counter to mashing super, but you poured cold water on it b/c you get screwed if they don't mash super. I mean, do we want a 50/50 situation or a 100/0 one? People usually have a stronger point when they are forced with situations that have no options.

Bottom line, make better reads and hold the salt

I could be wrong, but I think you are equivocating on 50/50.

50/50 means that they generally have a 50% chance of guarding it.

Not that you have a 50% chance of getting fucked up royally if your opponent reads your reset.

Not to mention that half of super mashing is that they don't necessarily read your reset. They are just mashing the super in the hopes of you resetting.

 

[wiredgod]

I could be wrong, but I think you are equivocating on 50/50.

50/50 means that they generally have a 50% chance of guarding it.

Not that you have a 50% chance of getting fucked up royally if your opponent reads your reset.

Not to mention that half of super mashing is that they don't necessarily read your reset. They are just mashing the super in the hopes of you resetting.

So bait the mashed super and punish. You can either block or use some of the other techniques people showed on youtube. I don't see what needs to change here.

 

[Dagwood]

Just really sucks that the game "feels scrubby" with everyone throwing out supers like derps and getting away with it. IMO

I don't think theres an inherent issue with having mashed reversals, and having to bait them.
Or safe DHC's
As long as they have weaknesses to make up for it.

Its Filia that pisses me off. She has the most braindead reversal, most braindead offense, and top-tier assists.
Like just add it together, with filia, you mash super: leads to full combo, into retarded mixups that no one on the planet can block, into incoming mixup where you can do like 7 high/lows in a row. And then you win. Outplayed.

 

[SonicFox]

I don't think theres an inherent issue with having mashed reversals, and having to bait them.
Or safe DHC's
As long as they have weaknesses to make up for it.

Its Filia that pisses me off. She has the most braindead reversal, most braindead offense, and top-tier assists.
Like just add it together, with filia, you mash super: leads to full combo, into retarded mixups that no one on the planet can block, into incoming mixup where you can do like 7 high/lows in a row. And then you win. Outplayed.

I thought ms fortune and double were the most braindead chars out of the entire game imo. And then Filia is 3rd.
-incoming blowup-

 

[Woofly]

I thought ms fortune and double were the most braindead chars out of the entire game imo. And then Filia is 3rd.
-incoming blowup-

No no no! Fortune was recently nerfed so we need a new character to blame for everything! Silly Fox.

 

[Spencer]

No no no! Fortune was recently nerfed so we need a new character to blame for everything! Silly Fox.

Don't be unfair. A lot of us have been hating on Filia for a long time for these very reasons.

 

[Number 13]

Yeah...clearly the hint wasn't taken. If people want to have their little grudge match discussion thing going on that is fine, but what isn't fine is having that stuff here for a thread that was supposed to be about how valid "mashing" supers are in this game. Some people did try to keep the thread on topic despite this, but there is no sign of slowing down the derailment so topic is locked.

 

[Sydoh]

I'm going to give this thread another chance. I liked the discussion pre-sonicfox vs pali.

If you guys want to showcase your beef, please make a new thread about it, or use PMs, and keep this thread on track with discussion of mashing supers.

Thank you.

 

[Negus Eyoel]

well now that worldjem has revived the thread i can say stuff, so shoutouts to that.

hate mashed supers, hate hitstop. yeah i know this must be hilarious coming from me but in all honesty i never minded being counter supered for mashing super. and vice versa. but i know why it needs to stay in the game. without it offense would be so strong that it would basically turn into a 1 player game. so i choose to tolerate it and abuse it instead. still i am a huge fan of the potential hitstop changes in beta lol