• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Me bitching and moaning mostly

If you still want to try the pw/squigs/para team, comsider putting squigly first.


Also, squigly with pw cr.mp is actually good stuff. Its a bit situational, but the pattern of squigly divekick while calling pw lockdown assist is quite good. If the divekick hits then the cr.mp assist will combo and confirm, but of its blocked, then squigly can take the time to go for a high/low mixup. Not the easiest pattern to go for, but a VERY solid pattern to go for when you also have a decent neutral game assist like pillar to keep people honest.

As far as pw/squigs as a duo...it will be hard. All of squigs assist options can come in handy.., but all are situational and leave much to be desired outside of those individual situations. Her cr.hp is probably the best overall since it performs 2 functions.... A lockdown assist, and a low hitting assist. It is functionally the same as pw cr.mp assist except it hits low. This is actually a not to bad in theory thing:

Getting used to using pw cr.mp assist for squigly should give you some ability to use squigly cr.hp assist for pw. Kinda like using pillar assist teaches you to use updo assist and vice versa.


Anywho if it was me heres how i would run the teams as 3:


Pw cr.mp/squigly cr.hp/para hk pillar

Or

Squigly cr.hp/pw cr.mp/para hk pillar.




You also hit the nail on the head as far as pw meter gain goes. Painwheel uses 2 specials a lot in her combos... Buer, which mike gimped terribly cause of its combo friendliness in the corner, and flight which gets all of 0 meter for doing. Combine the 2 and its pretty obvious why pw meter gain is bad.


There are things you can do try and offset this a bit though:

Use other characters high meter gain specials in your combos (hello cerecopter/bomber) use pws fully charged nails in a combo where all the nails hit (pw gets maaaaaad meter for hitting with all 5 stingers)
 
/Complainwheel on
If this reason is its comboability builds too much meter in the corner, shouldn't it be re-compensated since the number of buer's per combo has been limited? It is seriously abysmal sometimes as bad as 3 meters to 5 (solo).
/Complainwheel off

In any case, do you think that Squigs benefits from a lockdown like c.mp? What about m/h.nails (I've not had a lot of luck with either)? Maybe pinion (lk is almost impossible to confirm from since it's hitstun seems pretty low. hk sends them too far though it is possible to confirm though I imagine unlikely. Not had any luck with mk version either.? How does hk.buer work as an assist. I was trying throw a la Elda, but I couldn't get it to work. Nothing really seems to synergize super well with Squigly.
 
yes, squigs benefits off c.mp because she's soo easy to pushblock out, and c.mp helps immensely for that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spencer
I don't play either character but wouldn't opera really help painwheel?
 
Opera in my experience is hit or miss. In many cases, PW is very spacing specific and doesn't want to be point blank (she wants to be just at the edge of j.mp range in most cases). Opera has the potential to pull something like a Para j.hp right into your face. That said, I do want to experiment with it a bit vs Fukua (could potentially be a disaster *shudder at clones*) and Peacock (I think it has the potential to be really good).

Right now though, the low lockdown + PWs air approach seems to be pretty amazing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: agent13
The only character I run Center Stage with is Fukua. PW can hit a j.MP from full screen with it... but 2HP is much more useful in general for her.
 
I meant for the peacock/ fukua mu because it can get rough for painwheel
but I think at that point bb would work better
 
Yes, center stage is a pretty bad counter pick to peacock, because the one time when you really need it (when blocking full screen stuff) you absolutely CANNOT call it. It just wont work.

HP Brass is the true counter assist to peacock. pw doesn't really like HP brass, but in that matchup it is always the best assist to have.
 
The lock down vs peacock would still be pretty strong I imagine, though I've not gone vs too many Peacock's since picking up a second.

Part of the problem is catching her with her tele bullshit and a good call could potentially keep her grounded.

It doesn't solve the problem of getting in, but it does solve the problem of her getting out when you finally do manage to get on top of her.
 
Tomo009 said:
The only character I run Center Stage with is Fukua. PW can hit a j.MP from full screen with it... but 2HP is much more useful in general for her.
PW can hit a fullscreen (s.HP xx) M.Buer with it and get full combos out of that hit due to the midscreen corner.
I don't think 2HP does enough in neutral to be a good assist but what do I know~ But yeah, I'd run DnB I suppose.

Tomo009 said:
HP Brass is the true counter assist to peacock.
You mean H.LnL or something? Brass against Pea/Bella is just suicide.

E: I don't see how Squigly is easy to pushblock out at all, but I probably suck again??
 
Squigly 2 hp is overall better for pw. It isnt good for neutral, but it is good for covering resets via lockdown after a blocked confirm or its good for being the actual reset itself.


Squigly sing is ok, best as a counter assist call, or after a backdash to get full screen. But basically its very hard to find places to call sing safely. If you call it while the opponent is coming in, then you set yourself up for easy lockouts against sing or at worst a happy birthday. If you only use it in combos it is only combo fodder... A win more strat at best. Calling it fullscreen versus peacock is hard. If sing gets touched by anything it doesnt work at all. it CAN be good, but it takes a hell of a lot of work. And you will make bad calls while doing it and get blown up hard.

If you have a team that has a dedicated assist anchor, then sing can be very useful for a point pw with squigly second.

Probably the best overall team for pw plus sing would be:

Pw/squigly/fukua h drill.

Fukua is the only GOOD user of sing that i know of (backdash at near full screen, call sing and throw out mk shadow is pretty damn stupid)

And pw should be a decent user of hk drill, seeing that its basically a non knockdown version of l bomber.
 
I'm at the point where I refuse to touch Fukua on principle. She's too damn good for the work you have to put in to learn her and brings something to the table for practically every situation. It reminds of me say DK in WoW. Not necessarily OP, but definitely annoyingly well equipped for every situation. I hate that everyone seems to have a pocket Fukua now... any way. The tl;dr is that I'm not in the least bit surprised that Fukua can make good use of hard to use assists.
 
Painwheel with no vertical assist, or at least a tall assist like BB HP brass sounds like even more suffering, to me.

Also, drop your honour code, it isn't going to get you anywhere in fighting games. If you don't want to play Fukua, sure, but your reasoning is pretty bad, I guess your team makes more sense now though... You seem to want to handicap yourself haha.

I doubt PW could easily convert off HK drill and HK drill is only an ok assist, really. Also it leaves them standing at neutral making it a rather poor assist for Squigly as well.

It seems like that is supposed to be a weird Fukua team but I don't really see it working all that well.

__________

2HP is an ok neutral assist, it isn't as good as Cerecopter but FAR better than other similar moves like D'n'B. Squigly bows downwards and back, with a very tiny hurtbox and the hitbox of 2HP is very long. You can use it and retreat behind pretty easily. It is also very active so doing things like calling it on a umping opponent and dashing behind them is effective.
 
It isn't that I willingly want to gimp myself. For me, the aesthetics are far more important than gameplay and I'd rather try and make it work than play a team I'm not all that enamored with. My only gripe with Fukua is that she is every where. She blew up faster than Squigly or BB and I think most players are having to at least consider her on a team as she's a solid all-around pick.

That said, I do plan on picking up a third. Playing around with Squigs 2.hp, it solves a few issues that PW has like Bella. It isn't much good in the more jumping based matches like Val or Filia, and so I think Parasoul (Pillar) will round out the team nicely. I just have to get a tad more comfortable with Squigs before I pick her up.
 
Out of curiosity, why not? I need a more defensive assist and Pillar seems to be a nice one. I suppose I could learn MF and I'm still waiting to see how Eliza's DP works out.
 
- Parasoul is the weakest character on incoming by far, having no air mobility options at all (let alone an air reversal)
- Her defence is overall pretty shit, due to her only reversal being one that requires downcharge + lack of mobility options leading to difficulties in escaping the corner
- Her main gameplan is a midrange one that needs a certain amount of time to set up - neither of which (midrange, time) she will get when she's coming in
- On top of that, she will have issues with a bunch of matchups, gets ruined by armored assists, her lvl1s suck, etc whatever
The combination of these factors sounds like a rather clearcut point character that's not very impressive on anchor.

HOWEVER, she can circumvent most of this by coming in with 3+ bars.
Her incoming is still gonna be shit, but the Level 3 saves your life in (or at least helps with) every other aspect;
- The opponent has a hard time calling any assist (reaction lvl3 is a rather nice assist punish + it breaks armor)
- You gain an additional reversal/defence option with the lvl3
- You get out of the corner via lvl3 into dashjump crossup
- You get time to set up your game
- The opponent will in general leave you more space due to being scared of the lv3, etc
This makes Parasoul playable as anchor.

.. but how often are you going to have 3+ Bars on your designated anchor when your first two characters are Painwheel (bad meterbuild, Thresher core part of her gameplan, Install is great) and Squigly (the #1 meterburner even in front of Peacock - without the latters obscene meterbuild)?

This is aside from playing 3 characters with shitty defence in one team (which is *going to* lead to your opponent landing a single hit and you losing your entire team on the spot more than once) and a bunch of other shortcomings which I'm too lazy to type out before going to bed.
Most of those others are not a big deal or whatever, but your thirst for meter and lack of non-assist defence is going to screw you over .. a lot.
 
Last edited:
On the above advice, I did not pick up Parasoul as my third. I was trying out BB, but I hated the way he played, so I'm onto MF.

Pros: Independent (she'll be my third so she won't be getting assists), meter-independent (meter always helps, but not having it won't hurt), and defensive assist (hk.FU).

She's not ready, so I need to start getting some games in with her... same with my Squigs too to be honest, though she's not terrible. I find I buckle under pressure, but at neutral she's probably more consistent than my PW with a fraction of the time spent on her.

Anyone interested in going vs a solo Squigs or MF?
 
I should be home soon. I have a character I wanna try out solo, so this could be fun.

BTW, that crazy optimized combo last night made my jaw hit the floor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spencer
I stole that straight from Caio... no lie. Does a ton of damage.

How are the Squig assist mixups? Hopefully a nightmare to deal with?

I get off in about an hour and a half.
 
Spencer said:
On the above advice, I did not pick up Parasoul as my third. I was trying out BB, but I hated the way he played, so I'm onto MF.

Pros: Independent (she'll be my third so she won't be getting assists), meter-independent (meter always helps, but not having it won't hurt), and defensive assist (hk.FU).

She's not ready, so I need to start getting some games in with her... same with my Squigs too to be honest, though she's not terrible. I find I buckle under pressure, but at neutral she's probably more consistent than my PW with a fraction of the time spent on her.

Anyone interested in going vs a solo Squigs or MF?


The only thing i can really say about both squigs and mf is that they are primarily characters that use a good defense to build a good offense:


Both HAVE TO use good defensive movement in order to get the mindgames to open up there ability to go offensive. If either tries to go offensive from the get go against a new opponent who hasn't been shown the need to respect the defensive movement and options from either character... Then you will have a hard time. The why is because:

Fortune has little priority when compared to the rest of the cast. So, if the opponent is trying to outprioritise you at every turn... It will generally work and force you to rely on dumb stuff like random fiber uppers which will get you killed on incorrect reads. With fortune you want to basically be using rps footsies to go in or not to go in... Get the opponent scared to overextend. And make them hesitant and then go in.


With squigly, they have to respect your j.hp before you can go in, but generally speaking you are going to need to establish your j.lk air to air dominance to slow them down and go in.


So yeah, defense first with theses guys. That doesnt mean give up space, that just means try and get the opponent to overextend... Imho.

Atleast try it out and see how you like it. Most of the mf players that ive seen that are good start out defensively. The only exceptions are a Korean mf and guitalex, from what ive seen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spencer
Spencer said:
Anyone interested in going vs a solo Squigs or MF?

I'm always down for Solo practice. Obv a para player, but I have an in-progress Big Band too if you want that
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spencer
fenster said:
I'm always down for Solo practice. Obv a para player, but I have an in-progress Big Band too if you want that

I'm always down to get Para practice too, so either way. I'll add you on steam.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back