Motivation For Beginners

[PKStoopKid]

So you've just been hit with a combo greater than the combo number you have ever learnt to execute...well after your Filia has just been ko'd you may be thinking 1 of 4 things (everyone's thought will vary)

1.I WAS BLOCKING!!!
2.Combos in this game last too long
3. How am I suppose to compete with that
4. I'm terrible at this game

You see the last two, those are the two I hope to sway you away from thinking and place your attitude and mindset in the right direction. For starters let me say I am in no way here to teach you how to play the characters nor can I guarantee that after this, you'll become a Skullgirls Master, What I can offer you is a different way in approaching the game, your noviceness and any other competitive game you play from now on( Even if it's Skullgirls or Magic the Gathering). So Skullgirls peaked you interest and you want to play the game. You found your team, you did training/tutorials, you demolished your friends...you went online and learnt the difference between your friends Peacock panic skills and an Advance Zoning Peacock, now you have been discouraged. It happens, even to advance players but here is how you bounce back.

Let me start with a story of mine

I had become the best in my circle of friends and decided to adventure out into the world of online play. It was there I fought against a guy better than me, we played 9 times and I only won once. I sat on my couch wondering if every technique my Cerebella knew was a lie. So I said to myself "never again" and that guy gave me the drive to practice and train harder.

"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth"
-Mike Tyson
Wow! you have a 126 hit Raw Tag DHC combo you brag about... but you only remember how to do the combo if S.LP connects.
And this is lesson 1

Improv
What good is a flashy combo if you memorized it punch for punch and can't do it against a real opponent? you have to learn to change up your style on the go. Do not be afraid to try and use different buttons in favor of winning the match. Some matches you win some matches you lose and if you play each match doing the same tricks your really not learning much. It is not enough to go to training mode and practice cause eventually you'll have to face a moving human target.

Lesson 2
Be Fierce, but Humble
Yes you are still a beginner do not trash talk someone with more experience and not expect them to unleash every move they have on you just to allow you to remember your place. Understand you are still learning and instead seek assitence in bettering yourself at the game. Since it is a fighting game however, you should project a great amount of confidence in yourself and let people know that even though you are a beginner, you came to play and you came to win.

Lesson 3
Adapt
When I was first starting out I was only good at doing combos on the left side of the screen. So if my opponent wanted to beat me, they simply put me on the right. You have to practice doing combos and button inputs on both sides that way your pants are never caught down. Also learn to do combos mid stage (of course some combos require a cornered player).

Lesson 4
Its There for a Reason
This one is simple Mr. Mike Z had put all this time into the tutorials and extra features in training mode so that you could practice various scenarios and situations. Utilize this to the max, set your buttons to a more comfortable setting if you have to.

Lesson 5
Meet new people, Be apart of the community
If this is your first time playing Skullgirls, Let me be the first to welcome you to the community. It is not enough to just play at home or with your friends, go out to Skullgirls events or even if you can not make it to them find people online and learn from them. If you have the chance to go to Salty Cupcakes, you should, they will be glad to teach you the game plus Mike Z is there might,as well learn from the guy who built the engine for it right?

Lesson 6
Positive Attitudes
It's ok to joke that you are the worst player, but do not believe you are the worst player. A person who constantly tells themselves that they are bad at something will only behave as such. Keep a positive approach at getting better. Trust me you might think this will not work because you can not see yourself stepping up to the big dogs, but they had to build from the ground up as well.

Lesson 7
Double yourself but Play like Aeon
Watch other people's combo videos and take bits and pieces from them and try to mold your own combos out of that. A good approach to this would be to watch a video and practice not all the combo but bits and piece until you have it down and remembered.

Well that's all I have for you today Hope this help, if not see you next time when I write the Slightly Different Opinion Edition

 

[Number 13]

Moved to the more appropriate beginner section.

 

[MasterBat]

That was pretty much my sentiment getting into the game and playing online ^0^

I have a distaste for the lengthy combos but I have a short combo memorized which I can repeat and spam into an infinite if I want (usually I don't because it has a huge weakness).

Practicing against the nightmare A.I. makes sure you're always fighting a moving target! In fact, I got better bit by bit by beating the a.i. going from easy to medium to hard to nightmare. With the a.i. you can practice your combos by exploiting a weakness in their defenses and then going all-out with a combo.

 

[PKStoopKid]

I have a distaste for the lengthy combos but I have a short combo memorized which I can repeat and spam into an infinite if I want (usually I don't because it has a huge weakness).

Practicing against the nightmare A.I. makes sure you're always fighting a moving target! In fact, I got better bit by bit by beating the a.i. going from easy to medium to hard to nightmare. With the a.i. you can practice your combos by exploiting a weakness in their defenses and then going all-out with a combo.

I'm on the fence about long combos, I respect the time and effort people put into learning them and If I could I would do them(sometimes) cause I'm a self proclaim man of showmanship I like to put on a flashy show, but I enjoy matches where players keep it simple.

And to be honest, fighting the A.I. taught me a lot, my only problem is that after a while you memorize what they will do and to improve, you'll need that constant change in fighting

Example
Peacock will Zone as she suppose to, however she rarely blocks no matter what difficulty

Double will do Luger shot into Bandwagon(if Luger shot connects)

Ms Fortune is pretty erratic, she isn't constant

Filia blocks 98% of the time, though it should be noted that Filia is actually a good A.I. controlled character to fight, she blocks waiting for her opening and then takes the glory. This causes a change in your strategy

 

[Chuck Draug]

Problem with fighting the AI is that it has some patterns already set, even in the highest difficulty. It's a burden for every game out there, but surely, in fighting games it's more evident.

As for combos, I've always been a simple yet effective man. I respect those who can get a 20-some combo with nearly no effort, but even if I've been playing fighting games since the Street Fighter II days, I'm still a guy who works more for effectiveness in simplicity - though I admit, having fun with Ms Fortune and Valentine trying to get more than 15-hit combos is wonderful.

As for the original post regarding how beginners can get into the game - and any other -, it's pretty interesting and clear. I'm sure many beginners will find it handy... Damn, I'm sure some veterans and pros will learn a thing or two!

 

[MasterBat]

What I meant by practicing A.I. was practicing your combos on them after exploiting their weaknesses. You can examine and analyze their patterns just like in a real fight and find ways to get around it. Not only that, it's a moving target that also attacks and responds to you! Sure, the A.I. does some pretty weird and cheesy crap but what's important is how you approach them. Do you know what to avoid? How to avoid it?

In a lot of online matches a LOT of players use the same combo and openings over and over again. The difference is, you're up against multiple players (if you play more than one match), so the battlefield is always changing but doing the same thing over again isn't a big deal. The A.I. helps you read what a player might be doing or thinking and learning their patterns/strategies is what will win you the battle. Practicing your combos, pokes, and training your muscle memory against A.I. that isn't a dummy helps a lot Online.

I beat A.I. filia 98% of the time and that's because I know what to look for. I can, in a sense, read a player's mind and predict their movements because I've trained myself to analyze patterns in the A.I., a real player has his/her own patterns too. I'm not that great, but I'm pretty decent and I'm not a dedicated player. So I guess all the other players have gone leagues beyond me in skill.

My only problem with long combos is that, yeah, they're great and all... but they leave little options for the defender. Trying to break out of a lengthy combo becomes a stressful guessing game and when it comes to a three party team it becomes harder to predict their movements. The IPS doesn't really do a whole lot for the defenders as there are no real 'infinites' per se.... but just combos that go on forever.

 

[PKStoopKid]

What I meant by practicing A.I. was practicing your combos on them after exploiting their weaknesses. You can examine and analyze their patterns just like in a real fight and find ways to get around it. Not only that, it's a moving target that also attacks and responds to you! Sure, the A.I. does some pretty weird and cheesy crap but what's important is how you approach them. Do you know what to avoid? How to avoid it?

In a lot of online matches a LOT of players use the same combo and openings over and over again. The difference is, you're up against multiple players (if you play more than one match), so the battlefield is always changing but doing the same thing over again isn't a big deal. The A.I. helps you read what a player might be doing or thinking and learning their patterns/strategies is what will win you the battle. Practicing your combos, pokes, and training your muscle memory against A.I. that isn't a dummy helps a lot Online.

I beat A.I. filia 98% of the time and that's because I know what to look for. I can, in a sense, read a player's mind and predict their movements because I've trained myself to analyze patterns in the A.I., a real player has his/her own patterns too. I'm not that great, but I'm pretty decent and I'm not a dedicated player. So I guess all the other players have gone leagues beyond me in skill.

Oh! OK I understand what you mean now, well in that case, yes I also use nightmare A.I. to practice my combos. Everything you said make sense, I just didn't know what you meant at first about fighting A.I., but yes people online play very similar to how the A.I plays, matter of fact the A.I. teaches you the different types of styles people play, thanks for the clarification

 

[BZ Choy]

Do you have any advice for people like me that are stuck in no.2 and find eating long combos pretty discouraging?

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Do you have any advice for people like me that are stuck in no.2 and find eating long combos pretty discouraging?

Keep eating combos and notice the texture of what you are eating. If you found something that you had digested, don't like and know the tell-tale signs of when it is approaching, find a way to remove it from your palette and make the opponent eat your specially made combos.

 

[MasterBat]

Keep eating combos and notice the texture of what you are eating. If you found something that you had digested, don't like and know the tell-tale signs of when it is approaching, find a way to remove it from your palette and make the opponent eat your specially made combos.

Revenge is best served on a dish! XD

 

[PKStoopKid]

Do you have any advice for people like me that are stuck in no.2 and find eating long combos pretty discouraging?

It's just as Brother Rex said...albeit I'll try my best to translate and simplify his words of wisdom.

Study how people set up their combos and how they approach you to get the said combos started. After learning that, Find ways to counter said combos and punish them for their mistake. You'll find that most people use the same set up and moves in their combos so I would say watch a couple of combo videos and watch what they do to get the ball rolling.

Now one thing I can't do is tell you that long combos will stop, only Mike Z can handle that, but I can offer that you try to master blocking for any situations.Another helpful tip would be proper positioning of your team and helpful assist so that you could use the Stunt Double Mechanic( + tag command if memory serves me correctly) and surprise your opponent with a move they didn't see coming (remember, Stunt Double takes 1 meter to use). Also two things you want to know when to use would be Push Blocking and The Burst mechanic.

Long combos can be very discouraging, off putting even, but just like playing an instrument, only through practice and understanding will one truly grasp the concept needed to counter these combos.

Here is a video that would help with using Push Block in a proper way

Spoiler

)

Edit: Forgot to mention, credit for the video goes to worldjem. Remember its important to cite sources.

Let me know if this helped cause I honestly feel like I can help you out more or at least give better advice

 

[MasterBat]

Played a few with some smurf who was doing around 50+ combos. I assume he was attempting to prey the beginner lobby again.

I have tried pushblock but it doesn't really 'push', it just pushes them away for a millimeter and they can just keep hitting me while I'm on the defensive. It was basically a 50/50 match though, and I got in some good victories at least. I also don't know how to deal with grabs since it starts up so fast it's hard to read, so evading or attacking really doesn't help. Valentine spamming supers is also retarded :/ had to deal with it all night.

EDIT: Okay. Watched the video and there are no words that can convey the anger, frustration, and rage I feel about the game.

 

[PKStoopKid]

Played a few with some smurf who was doing around 50+ combos. I assume he was attempting to prey the beginner lobby again.

I have tried pushblock but it doesn't really 'push', it just pushes them away for a millimeter and they can just keep hitting me while I'm on the defensive. It was basically a 50/50 match though, and I got in some good victories at least. I also don't know how to deal with grabs since it starts up so fast it's hard to read, so evading or attacking really doesn't help. Valentine spamming supers is also retarded :/ had to deal with it all night.

EDIT: Okay. Watched the video and there are no words that can convey the anger, frustration, and rage I feel about the game.

Most likely that guy was trying to win a couple easy ones, probably to make himself feel better. I like to prey on those who prey, either way I teach a lesson, or I get an interesting fight(that's assuming they are up to par like they feel they are).

Hmm, I'll look into it later on to see what options you have if push block doesn't push them farther, got any characters you want me to practice the Push Block Guard Cancel with?

Grabs... yes I understand completely its next to impossible to read these things truly one of those things you have to already know when the reset or combo calls for a grab. You would have to study the start up animation for a grab which takes a lot of TLC in its own and even then you have to be ready to know if a combo dragged too long and needs to reset or if your defensive and the opponent needs an opening.

Yeah that's good ol Val for ya, she has some of the most useful Supers in the game. To learn the ins and outs of character specifics, I suggest heading to the Gameplay General Section.

Now for the part I wanted to get to, If I may ask, what is it that is angering/frustrating/inducing rage upon you? I would not like to see someone eager to learn put the game down or be discouraged. I want to help as much as I can

 

[PKStoopKid]

Let me just take the time to say thank you to all you guys for putting the passion back in learning all I can for Skullgirls. I had reached a point where I was just doing Double Barrel combos and my Parasoul combo without any understanding of why I wasn't improving. You guys truly put the passion back in the game for me. I will learn how to deal with many scenarios so that I may share my information with you guys and help those who want help.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

I have tried pushblock but it doesn't really 'push', it just pushes them away for a millimeter and they can just keep hitting me while I'm on the defensive.

Were you pushblocking while they were continuing a chain or using a multi-hit move? If so, the continuation of the combo allows them to keep their momentum and stay in close. For a demonstration, go to training and set the cerebella opponent to do cerecopter. Block it and try pushblocking at multiple times. It should be that if you pushblock the very last hit, she'll be pushed away but any sooner and she'll stay closeby.
Actually, I found a better description of this phenomenon in evilben's Basic Mechanics in Skullgirls thread.

Pushblocking
pushblocking can be done by pressing any two punches while in block stun, it will push your opponent away and give you some breathing room. if you are forced to block another hit while pushblocking it will cancel the pushback! this mostly means you have to wait till the last hit of a move like cerecopter or filia's crouching medium kick to pushblock.
pushblocking is also not always the best idea! if your opponent does something unsafe, like doing a super that you block, keep them close so you can punish them!

 

[evilben]

good thread!
2 cents about dealing with throws. you wont be able to react to them, they are to fast. you will need to learn to predict them and prepare accordingly. (also remember you cannot tech throws if you are crouching)

learning combos is good and all (learn them, doing more damage per hit makes the game a lot more winnable) but the real achievement is learning to land that first hit while not getting hit yourself. this is something that the AI and training mode cannot help you with as much (if it all). its something you need to learn by playing other people.

my advice is to play against people who are good. you will lose, a lot, but you will learn. if you have a way, record your matches and watch them again later. study what your opponent did and how you reacted and see if there is anything better you could have done. don't get disheartened, play to win but set goals to accomplish other than that to mark your progress.

 

[MasterBat]

Now for the part I wanted to get to, If I may ask, what is it that is angering/frustrating/inducing rage upon you? I would not like to see someone eager to learn put the game down or be discouraged. I want to help as much as I can

[About going into neutral state after a successful pushblock.]

Maybe because the ENTIRE FUCKING GAME forgets to tell you about this. Entire game I thought defenders had little to no options, YET I was so wrong and somehow so right...

 

[MasterBat]

good thread!
snip

That last bit in your comment raises an eyebrow, you don't think I play online, do you? smh

Were you pushblocking while they were continuing a chain or using a multi-hit move? If so, the continuation of the combo allows them to keep their momentum and stay in close. For a demonstration, go to training and set the cerebella opponent to do cerecopter. Block it and try pushblocking at multiple times. It should be that if you pushblock the very last hit, she'll be pushed away but any sooner and she'll stay closeby.
Actually, I found a better description of this phenomenon in evilben's Basic Mechanics in Skullgirls thread.

I just don't see the point of adding a pushblock that requires something so precise... But at the same time it's very risky, if I just pushblock too late I'll just open myself for another attack (which is the entire reason I rarely use pushblock).

 

[Broseidon Rex]

I just don't see the point of adding a pushblock that requires something so precise... But at the same time it's very risky, if I just pushblock too late I'll just open myself for another attack (which is the entire reason I rarely use pushblock).

To me, that's partially the point, it can be risky to do. Still important to learn.
As for the opening up after bad pushblocking, yeah, that happens to me all the damn time. Have to remember not to tr and pushblock everything immediately.

 

[evilben]

That last bit in your comment raises an eyebrow, you don't think I play online, do you? smh

ummm.... what?

I just don't see the point of adding a pushblock that requires something so precise... But at the same time it's very risky, if I just pushblock too late I'll just open myself for another attack (which is the entire reason I rarely use pushblock).

learning when and how to pushblock takes time and match up experience. the more you play against the cast the more you will learn which moves you want to pushblock and the timing when you should. the pushblock in skullgirls was taken from marvel vs capcom 2 and is meant to give the attacker a way to stay in on a very defensive player and, like most things in the game, mike did not want to make it an easy braindead option.

and as far as having to be precise; you dont have to be that precise as you can pushblock whenever you are in block stun and the chains in this game go from light to heavy attacks and heavy attacks tend to put you in more blockstun. while it might be hard to pushblock a lone jab, its pretty easy to pushblock during the blockstun on that fierce that ends a block string. some players might try to bait a pushblock but thats all part of the game.

 

[Chuck Draug]

Pushblocking is part of the mindgames. But yes, in Skullgirls you have to be very careful. It's a good tool, like it was in the MvsC games, but like there, you have to learn how and when to use it. It takes experience and maybe a lot of lost health and battles. I still can't master it, but once and then, I pull them properly.

Trying and fighting is the key. I know how frustrating it can be not being able to score a good winning strike, but you learn from defeats as well. Check your mistakes, follow the OP's guide... and I think that at least you are ready to enjoy the game at its finest.

 

[MasterBat]

learning combos is good and all (learn them, doing more damage per hit makes the game a lot more winnable) but the real achievement is learning to land that first hit while not getting hit yourself. this is something that the AI and training mode cannot help you with as much (if it all). its something you need to learn by playing other people.

my advice is to play against people who are good. you will lose, a lot, but you will learn. if you have a way, record your matches and watch them again later. study what your opponent did and how you reacted and see if there is anything better you could have done. don't get disheartened, play to win but set goals to accomplish other than that to mark your progress.

Your 'advice' is something that I've already known and have done ever since I got the game. I played lots of online and people infinitely better than me. I don't need you to spoon-feed me information I already know. That's why I was shaking my head on your comment.

Repetitive information goes back to the better players telling everyone how to block... entirely useless if you already know how. :)

and as far as having to be precise; you dont have to be that precise as you can pushblock whenever you are in block stun and the chains in this game go from light to heavy attacks and heavy attacks tend to put you in more blockstun. while it might be hard to pushblock a lone jab, its pretty easy to pushblock during the blockstun on that fierce that ends a block string. some players might try to bait a pushblock but thats all part of the game.

Well, about that comment I can safely say that in my experience it always ends up with me, instead of pushblocking, throwing a punch or an attack and then getting locked into another combo again.

As for pushblocking being 'a braindead option' I would assume that constantly hitting your opponent without actually breaking their block would be a 'braindead move'. If someone is constantly attacking while you're blocking, I think pushblock should allow you some space.

 

[evilben]

today i learned you spell beginners "masterbat"

if you are getting an attack when you try to pushblock you are doing something wrong. the pushblock command is the same as dash (two punches) so that would be the first thing i'd look into.

this isnt street fighter x tekken or blazblue CT, there are no airtight infinite blockstrings even if you dont, get pushblocked. blockstrings are certainly not braindead as your opponent can DP, super, alpha counter, or sometimes hard tag out of your pressure. if you are playing mostly online the timing for pushblocking is going to be a bit tighter (frame delay and what not) but it is one of those skills that is very good to have. id suggest working on it in training mode (record the dummy doing some block strings you see online) then keep trying to do it online. sure, you might get blown up until you get the timing down, but it will be worth it when you get there.

 

[MasterBat]

Beginner's thread in the Beginner's Forum. Expect beginners to be there. :p

You don't need to tell me what buttons to press to pushblock and what I meant was that once their attack is over if you're blocking and pressing the two punch buttons you'll attack. You won't dash because you are doing this while you are blocking (holding down one of the arrows) and input will interpret it as an attack.

So if you miss the frame, you will attack and it will open you up so hard you'll regret you'll ever tried using the move.

What I meant by 'braindead move' was that if an opponent was just doing the same combo while you are blocking and not once attempting any way of breaking it. It's happened and the reason why I don't really like using tag is because if they're aggressive they'll anticipate the switch and if you're unlucky... get hit and thrown into another combo. As for supers, it really depends on what character you're using, for example: Squigly's super may not connect because it will appear behind your opponent if they are close enough.

I forget what DP and Alpha Counter was so...

As for practicing, it's getting harder to find matches lately.

 

[PKStoopKid]

Well Squigly has been out for some time now on PSN which means time to update.

This is a simple update (http://www.option-select.com/strategy/article/?a=12#optionselect) this is a link to a list of terms one should learn when playing fighing games credit for the site goes to FlashMetriod

Maybe I'll write a little something( If needed), next update will come with Big Band