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My Desire to Improve My Decision Making and my Upcoming Skullgirls YouTube series

@drewski do you have time to show me Big Band oki doki sometime before Friday?
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
@drewski do you have time to show me Big Band oki doki sometime before Friday?
Sure, I'll just make a vid when I get home from work tonight. It'll mostly be with-assist concepts but I'll have some solo stuff too.
 
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drewski said:
Sure, I'll just make a vid when I get home from work tonight. It'll mostly be with-assist concepts but I'll have some solo stuff too.

If you don't mind, myself and others are really interested in solo concepts. Many players play Big Band anchor meaning we won't have him with assists.

I'm mainly interested in:

Does he have any meaty setups beyond L Giant Step?
Does he have any crossup j.MK setups on anyone besides Peacock?
Is there some sort of high/low mixup that will beat slower meterless reversals if timed properly (probably not)?

Also, this may seem like a dumb question, but after a sliding knockdown with big band, if I want to start dashing RIGHT AWAY, is it better to hold forward or two buttons?
 
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FuLLBLeeD said:
Is there some sort of high/low mixup that will beat slower meterless reversals if timed properly (probably not)?
Oh I know this one. You can dash in then either do j.MK or empty jump c.LK c.MK. c.MK doesn't come out if they reversal, so if they reversal you recover in time to block. Bad news is the only reversals slow enough to lose to this are raw tags and BFF.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
Also, this may seem like a dumb question, but after a sliding knockdown with big band, if I want to start dashing RIGHT AWAY, is it better to hold forward or two buttons?

Doubletap forward lets you buffer the dash input, so use that.

Meaty c.HK can be a thing, it's not -too- amazing but it has a disjointed hitbox which can make reversals whiff, it hits low, it's negative but so is LK Giant Step, but on the plus side you can cancel c.HK into an L Brass or whatever, and if they don't tech the c.HK you can SSJ for some extra damage or something. This is a probably a silly suggestion but it's something.
 
I definitely feel his oki is way stronger with assists but here is some solo midscreen stuff. The key is to hit the opponent as high as possible with H brass so you can get enough time to do stuff. Further clarification is in the video description but it's pretty self-explanatory.
FuLLBLeeD said:
Is there some sort of high/low mixup that will beat slower meterless reversals if timed properly (probably not)?
The sweep -> giant step (if you time the sweep to actually hit) would do this for slow reversals, but it's not really a high/low mixup then.
FuLLBLeeD said:
Does he have any crossup j.MK setups on anyone besides Peacock?
Not really sure what you mean :o Are you still talking about oki?
 
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drewski said:
I definitely feel his oki is way stronger with assists but here is some solo midscreen stuff. The key is to hit the opponent as high as possible with H brass so you can get enough time to do stuff. Further clarification is in the video description but it's pretty self-explanatory.

The sweep -> giant step (if you time the sweep to actually hit) would do this for slow reversals, but it's not really a high/low mixup then.

Not really sure what you mean :o Are you still talking about oki?

Thank you very much Drewski, this helps a lot!

The remaining questions I have would be:

1. Do you always want to use HP Brass to set up oki? Is it better for setting up oki then A Train?
2. When you do want to set up oki with A Train, are these setups still applicable? You can easily end combos with H Brass instead of A Train, but if you catch somebody with A Train as an anti air or a command grab, do these setups still work, or are there different setups you want to use?
3. Can you use these setups in the corner with different timing, or are there corner specific setups?

Thank you!
 
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For A train oki, you still get enough time to do a sweep or giant step, but if you want a low/overhead then it's gonna be pretty loose. Still doable if you feel like your opponent is conditioned enough to commit to one option. If you think they'll upback you can go for dash-jump air grab.

Yeah you can do all these setups in the corner, just cancel j.HK into timpani and continue the combo from there. I wouldn't really do setups involving giant step in the corner unless you have an assist to keep you from getting back-thrown though. Or if you're feeling confident, try them until your opponent shows they can punish it :p (a whiffed early s.LK into L giant step upclose is cheap)
 
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Yeah I plan on starting to record matches and analyzing them again sometime soon.
 
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Oh hey it's this again!

After talking to a lot of people at NWM I got some advice on what I need to work on this game. (Thanks @dekillsage )

1. Neutral/ground game. I should be poking on the ground more
2. Never lose the same way twice. When I get hit by something, take a mental note of it and make sure i can defend against it again.

Other than that, this is something I realized on my own:

I need to REALLY get my execution/hit confirms down better..there are many situations where I drop combos/confirms because I don't know how to convert in a specific situation or forget the combo midway through. This can't happen anymore if I want to win. I need to know how to convert in every situation. A lot of the time I get IPS in certain situations because I'm not paying attention.

Today I practiced:

Fortune throw combo with beat Extend (LP Rekka + Beat Extend, s.LP, s.LP
Corner Throw Combo (corner throw, MK Fiber Upper, j.HP ADC j.HP)
Universal HK Fiber Combo (j.HP ADC j.HP, j.HK, OTG c.LK, c.HK (2 hits) The one I was using before was garbage and did not work on every character.

I still need to work on counterhit combos and converting off burst baits off a successful burst.

I still need to work on a better Big Band corner combo, and a better throw combo (short dash, c.MK, s.HP or the Ebrake combo).

I still need to work on better headless Fortune resets from the Skippy Mc Yay guide.

I need to work on hit confirm in more situations with headless Fortune. It seems like I am dropping stuff in a lot of situations. Poke with s.LP or c.LK, go into s.MP, wait until you see if the opponent has been hit or not before doing s.MK.

I have recorded some sets but haven't uploaded them to YouTube then. I plan on doing that soon so I can actually do better analysis.

This is mainly just an update of what I have been working on and what I think I need to work on...which at this point is execution and hit confirm stuff. I've been playing too long to have these problems.

In the mean time, if I notice something dropping in quick match/longer sets...I really need to go into training mode and grind it until I don't drop it anymore, or know how to convert in that situation. This has been something I've been very bad about in the past. There are things I know I SHOULD have down that I don't. I gotta get all that stuff in muscle memory.
 
bump: I'd like to revive this sometime soon!
 
Oh hey look I FINALLY did the thing!


This was helpful and is something I'd like to do in the future. It's also easier for me to do match analysis like this than the old method of "watch match, pause, write notes" which is incredibly time consuming. By talking about the match right after it happened directly over the video, it's easier for me to process my thoughts and instantly make changes to my gameplay.

edit: I'm sorry for the crappy audio. I record with a blue snowball microphone, which is the audio equivalent of a tin can.
 
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FuLLBLeeD said:
It's also easier for me to do match analysis like this than the old method of "watch match, pause, write notes" which is incredibly time consuming.
I actually do both. I watch the match a few times and make notes before I start recording. I find if I have to think about what's happening while recording, the video ends up taking way longer and is a lot more tedious to watch (which means fewer people watch it which means I get less advice on how to improve.)

Anyways I don't think I can get away with watching this at work atm but I'll give it a look the next time I get a chance
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Anyways I don't think I can get away with watching this at work atm but I'll give it a look the next time I get a chance

Awesome. Thank you!
 
Note: actually mute vlc instead of just turning off the speakers.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Ok I have watched this here are my notes

For the next one of these you might want to mute the game, that's honestly way more of a problem than the mic you're using. Hard to hear either of you over characters yelling OHHHHHH HORN CRUSH! or whatever. The music is loud too. There's also two songs playing simultaneously? That's weird.

I am pretty sure Beat Extend + L Bomb is only safe if you block Beat Extend on the ground. If Fortune blocks Beat Extend in the air I bet she could do something like a falling j.MK which keeps her in the air for a while while you let the bomb pass underneath you.

I have seen Fortunes do the jumping back j.LK burst bait then land and do c.LK. It doesn't look like you're in range for that option, maybe you need a different burst bait, idk. In general I don't think burst baits are really worth going for unless you can still get pressure if they don't burst. One of the ones I really like that I stole from 159man is Big Band jump back punch xx cymbal clash. Even if they don't burst there you still get the knockdown so you can do something else after. Dhoppler's suggestion of Fortune j.HK is good too.

Always keep one eye on your undizzy when you're doing a combo. If you're in the middle of an air string and you can see you won't have the undizzy for a ground string, just land and go right into super. You can set undizzy in training mode, try setting it to 10% or 20% or something and do your normal combos, figure out where the best place to cut them short is if you need to do that.

Off raw Drop Kick as Big Band you don't normally get to do an OTG c.MP like you would in the bnb. It depends on how low to the ground you do the drop kick, which is sort of hard to notice on the fly, so I would just go for an OTG c.LP or something cause it's consistent.

Any time you rush punch, buffer a quarter circle and be ready to cancel into SSJ if the punch whiffs. This is important in every matchup but it's extremely important against Peacock because it means she can't teleport to make your Brass whiff.

Crossunder Beat Extend is a really risky incoming. c.MK does the same thing but is safer on block. Beat Extend can still be worth going for to beat their invincible air super, but like, you did it to Peacock. She doesn't have that.

You got hit by H Giant Step a lot this set. If Big Band is full screen he doesn't have anything that'll hit you if you upback, so don't be scared to jump.

You mention snapping in Peacock, I could see it as being a good idea but it depends on the situation. Without two bars Dhoppler doesn't have a reliable way to get Peacock in safely. If he has two bars you might consider snapping Peacock just to not have to deal with the possibility of SSJ > Lenny, otherwise I don't think it's worth it.

In the Big Band vs Peacock matchup you should really Brass way more often. Don't kara punch just chicken jump forward, land, then do it. Peacock doesn't have a lot of great options against Brass, she can't punish an H Brass done from far away with anything but Argus. She also can't beat it preemptively with anything but Argus which is a read that costs meter and doesn't lead to a big reward (you got hit with Argus in that scenario a bunch of times, but, well, don't get read.)

If you're at max undizzy and you can kill but you want to keep the corner, do this:
c.LK c.MK s.HK xx M Brass,
OTG c.LP c.LK c.MPx2 s.HK xx H Beat Extend,
Timpani Drive,
j.MK (triggers undizzy)
Oh yes. You can link an air super after Beat Extend. Just jump up and do it, you have a lot of frames. Give it a shot in training mode. I think it's real important to kill characters with Timpani Drive instead of SSJ when you have the chance because your incoming setups after a Timpani are a lot better.

Some stuff for @Dhoppler
-Don't call neutral assists with your back to the corner that's like a big ol "please kill Peacock" sign. Not that Peacock ever actually died for this but it's just a bad idea in general.

That's all I got I guess. You won like every game so I don't have as much to say.
 
Thanks for that, I always fall into that hole. Every reminder not to do that helps.
 
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This footage is from the most recent MAXOUT. I lost to Dhoppler. I have a very hard time beating him these days. We used to go even, but now that he plays a team that's actually good I don't really know how to approach the matchup.

Should I be using Fiber in neutral more to move around? When I first started playing Skullgirls, I was really guilty of using fiber all the time to move around. As a result I got air thrown constantly. Now I feel like I don't use Fiber at all. I should be really using Fiber more with both head on and headless to beat pushblocking and get back in the opponent. One of the issues I have with fighting games is either using tools way too much, not enough, or not using them the proper amount.

In general I'm not really sure what more I can be doing to open up Big Band. The bomb controls the space below me, and if I jump I have to worry about anti air grab and beat extend. Maybe superjumping is the answer?



My only goal against Big Band with Fortune is to try and instant overhead him and get the high damage Band only combo off.

I'll be analyzing this set more later. I might do another audio log thing over it.


There's some other really general questions about Skullgirls I want to ask:

1. Post burst baits (non bursted) mixups. What should I be doing? Let's say I get a hard knockdown with my two hit burst bait from headless fortune and the opponent DOES NOT burst, which if they've seen it before is likely. At this point, the point of the burst bait is to just knock them down right? What kind of mixup should I be going for?

My assist is LP Beat Extend. It's not the best assist in the world for lockdown but it works. I also have my head off for pressure. Should I be doing something like, call beat extend on their wakeup, then headbutt? This will keep them locked down and discourage them from pressing buttons at least.

Another burst bait I like to use while headless is just headbutt, airdash j.LK, ground string, jump back j.LK. I like this one because if they burst I get to hit them, and if they don't I get to do j.LK ADC j.LK, j.MK. From there I can either let the triple overhead rock (j.LK, j.MK xx LK Axe Kick) or fastfall cancel the j.MK and go low or throw. Are burst baits like this worth doing if the burst situation is super obvious and I'm just doing it to discourage button presses and give me a free reset? I also want to test if jumpback j.LK ADC j.HK works. This is stuff I'm going to test when I get home.



Headless fortune j.MP ADC j.MP or j.MP ADC throw is also a great burst bait/throw 50/50.

I'm starting to think I'd have more luck with headless if I started going for more burst baits that lead to safe pressure or are 50/50s rather than going for resets.


Here is my question to other players reading this diary:

When do you go for resets versus burst baits? When you do a burst bait and they DON'T BURST and you get put into a hard knockdown oki situation, what then is your setplay (both with assists and without)?


2. With Big Band, how do I KEEP players in the corner? This is a huge problem I have with both characters, but it's more pronounced with Big Band. I generally don't know how to keep an opponent in the corner with band once I have them there. I'm pretty good with throw/low resets, but when they pushblock or jump away from me I don't know what I should be doing.


3. What does Big Band have as far as anti-pushblock setups go?
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
In general I'm not really sure what more I can be doing to open up Big Band. The bomb controls the space below me, and if I jump I have to worry about anti air grab and beat extend. Maybe superjumping is the answer?
If you can destroy the bomb somehow that could work. Fortune doesn't really have projectiles she can use to snipe the bomb, though. (Buff Fortune.) You could of course just run in and block the bomb to get rid of it.

You're invincible during a grab animation, so if you have a punish opportunity but you're worried about the bomb screwing it up, you could punish with a grab, that should keep you safe.

You can reversal to destroy the bomb and hit Big Band at the same time. Make sure you have a good read though. Players with L Bomb assist do tend to get a little more aggressive when the bomb is on the screen since they feel they have more leeway to make mistakes (speaking from experience), so it may be easier to catch Dhoppler off guard with a reversal when the bomb is out.

If everything else fails you can counter pick with Brass assist and look for the counter call. Brass will both lock out peacock for a long time and destroy the bomb.

FuLLBLeeD said:
1. Post burst baits (non bursted) mixups. What should I be doing? Let's say I get a hard knockdown with my two hit burst bait from headless fortune and the opponent DOES NOT burst, which if they've seen it before is likely. At this point, the point of the burst bait is to just knock them down right? What kind of mixup should I be going for?
Whatever you'd do off a hard knockdown, basically. If you hit them with raw cat scratch fever as Fortune, what would you do? You should probably do the same thing after your burst bait.

FuLLBLeeD said:
My assist is LP Beat Extend. It's not the best assist in the world for lockdown but it works. I also have my head off for pressure. Should I be doing something like, call beat extend on their wakeup, then headbutt? This will keep them locked down and discourage them from pressing buttons at least.
This is an option. You can call the assist first to see if they'll push something then try to pressure them while they're in blockstun. The disadvantages of this method are that absolute guard can take away your ability to do a mixup, and if they PBGC the assist they might be able to hit both characters. (Incidentally this is how you beat Fenster at Frosty Faustings).

Also, keep in mind L Beat Extend pulls in on block so you can get pull them out of the corner with it. Wild stuff.

FuLLBLeeD said:
Are burst baits like this worth doing if the burst situation is super obvious and I'm just doing it to discourage button presses and give me a free reset?
I don't really think so, but on the other hand there are good players who will do this sort of thing as their only setup. I'd say give it a shot to see if it works for you.

FuLLBLeeD said:
2. With Big Band, how do I KEEP players in the corner? This is a huge problem I have with both characters, but it's more pronounced with Big Band. I generally don't know how to keep an opponent in the corner with band once I have them there. I'm pretty good with throw/low resets, but when they pushblock or jump away from me I don't know what I should be doing.
I think Big Band is pretty good at this actually. In the corner they can't back up to get away from Cymbal Clash and if you space it at the tip they are unlikely to beat it outright with any safe options. You don't have a low option from this range to make it a real mixup, but you can discourage them from trying to move or press buttons, and once they're discouraged from that you can try to get a little closer and go for c.LK or grab. If they do something like super jump double jump to try to escape the corner, Beat Extend can catch them out of that.

FuLLBLeeD said:
3. What does Big Band have as far as anti-pushblock setups go?
Main one I use is j.LK (1 hit) j.HP. Players trying to pushblock on the last hit of j.LK will get backdash, and then you grab them.
 
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j.LK, j.HP is great, thanks! I get hit by that so much myself I don't know why I haven't use it myself.


mcpeanuts said:
Whatever you'd do off a hard knockdown, basically. If you hit them with raw cat scratch fever as Fortune, what would you do? You should probably do the same thing after your burst bait.


This is an option. You can call the assist first to see if they'll push something then try to pressure them while they're in blockstun. The disadvantages of this method are that absolute guard can take away your ability to do a mixup, and if they PBGC the assist they might be able to hit both characters. (Incidentally this is how you beat Fenster at Frosty Faustings).

Also, keep in mind L Beat Extend pulls in on block so you can get pull them out of the corner with it. Wild stuff.

The following setup is straight out of the compendium:
Dash up, s.hk on the head, jump, j.hk/empty jump c.lk/empty jump grab - Depends on the position of the head but it's basically a reversal-proof version of the second one.

I honestly should be doing more stuff like this. Headless Fortune is one of the only characters in the game that can do meaties without betting the farm because of headbutt and decap attack. If I do an oki setup off of burst bait, they're still at full tension, but it's still a great situation for me because I either get a burst bait combo or an oki setup. I'd prefer doing that to get hard knockdown pressure than TK HK Axe Kick, which is hard to do and hard to get head positioning after (getting head positioning after that bait is easy because you're doing it out of your standard gato loop combo).

Calling beat extend for pressure off of hard knockdown doesn't seem worth it imo.

mcpeanuts said:
I think Big Band is pretty good at this actually. In the corner they can't back up to get away from Cymbal Clash and if you space it at the tip they are unlikely to beat it outright with any safe options. You don't have a low option from this range to make it a real mixup, but you can discourage them from trying to move or press buttons, and once they're discouraged from that you can try to get a little closer and go for c.LK or grab. If they do something like super jump double jump to try to escape the corner, Beat Extend can catch them out of that.

Are you saying do TK Cymbal clash in the corner to keep them in the corner/from pressing buttons?
 
headless alone can counter big band's wakeup options if he chooses to do things like extend or ssj. You don't necessarily need to potentially throw your assist to the wolves to get a good setup, just combine nom with several other options like clk, sweep, jumping air normal, or block and it gets harder for him to armor out. Consider using sneeze instead if you think they're going to mash something invincible because I'm pretty sure nom might stop if you block or get hit.

I'd consider using m extend as your assist, or at least trying it out for a while if you haven't done that. It's what I use and I think its arguably more useful for fortune than L since it has the suction but also has inv and hits behind it. M extend also has some utility for headless cause you can set up the head as a delayed projectile or if your spacing is right you can send it into the sun in the event you want the head behind them. Personally though I just prefer brass for headless since it lets me hang back and countercall if I want but also makes it difficult for the opponent to do things fullscreen because of both having the head available and having the big punch in your back pocket.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
Are you saying TK Cymbal clash in the corner to keep them in the corner/from pressing buttons?
I don't tiger knee it I just jump up and do it. But otherwise yeah.
 
I use LP Beat extend because I like to play headless but I also like having a good reversal. I think I'm going to start using brass against Peacock exclusively though (I actually used to pay brass if people remember!) and will experiment with MP Extend after Combobreaker.

It's kind of weird that I used brass when my headless was ass, and now that I play headless almost exclusively and am actually good with her I don't really use it anymore...
 
@mcpeanuts When you get a hard knockdown in the corner with Big Band and you don't have an assist, what kinds of setups are you going for? Just safe jumps?

Meaties in this game are VERY risky unless you are using an assist to hit them as they are waking up. The possible exception to this is fortune with hear head, which is why I want to experiment with that. However a lot of the time I feel like if I get a hard knockdown in the corner I can't really do much except sit and wait for the opponent to recover, or I risk getting hit by a reversal and getting put into the blender myself.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
@mcpeanuts When you get a hard knockdown in the corner with Big Band and you don't have an assist, what kinds of setups are you going for? Just safe jumps?

Meaties in this game are VERY risky unless you are using an assist to hit them as they are waking up. The possible exception to this is fortune with hear head, which is why I want to experiment with that. However a lot of the time I feel like if I get a hard knockdown in the corner I can't really do much except sit and wait for the opponent to recover, or I risk getting hit by a reversal and getting put into the blender myself.
You've mentioned this before. I think you're trying to come up with a solution where you don't have to analyze what your opponent is likely to do based on their playstyle and the life and meter and time remaining etc. Sorry but it's not SF4, you can't option select all your problems away. Empty jump and block if you think they're going to reversal, do a mixup if you think they won't. Make a read. If you want to err on the side of caution, empty jump block is the safer of the two options.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
You've mentioned this before. I think you're trying to come up with a solution where you don't have to analyze what your opponent is likely to do based on their playstyle and the life and meter and time remaining etc. Sorry but it's not SF4, you can't option select all your problems away. Empty jump and block if you think they're going to reversal, do a mixup if you think they won't. Make a read. If you want to err on the side of caution, empty jump block is the safer of the two options.

You rite. Considering how much I HATE SF4 because of that, it's funny I still have that mindset.
 
I guess I should say that you can use something like LnL assist to make your mixup after hard knockdown safe against most reversals (stuff like Daisy Pusher will still get you though), and you do have space on your team if you wanted to add an assist like that. In general though you usually have to make a read after you knock them down.
 
I could always just spike the head, empty jump and block as a safe jump too (or some equivalent)
 
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