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Neutral Game Thread

View619

View619

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Painwheel Peacock Cerebella
Based on the level of the SG community as a whole (really bad), I figure every character thread could use something like this. Post up neutral game strategies, tools that you use to approach/control space, basically everything not involved during the combo (too much focus on combos, imo).

I can start off with a simple set of tactics:

Space Control
  • J.mp to control the air-space in front of you, even on whiff.
  • Titan Knuckle xx Diamond Drop or Sweep at mid to poke.
  • S.lk to control the space in front of you, even on whiff.
  • Learn how to space LnL so it's safe on block.
  • Titan Knuckle xx Excellabella to catch back dashes and jumps; a tactic for acting at the start of a round.
  • Try to Reflect where possible vs projectiles, but don't go for a Reflect on every projectile. Chip is better than getting hit.
  • Control air space with c.HP; how easy is this to confirm into Excellabella and can we Run-Stop to keep it safe and still convert into Excellabella?
  • Going for air-to-air without j.mp? Use j.lk, j.hk, so you can OTG and combo off of it; it may be better to do j.lk, j.mp now that the chained j.mp knocks down.

Meter Gain
  • Whiff Diamond Drop for meter; more space = more whiffs = closer to level 3/strong DHC. Make the most of a situation where you don't think dashing in on the opponent head-on is working.

Conversion
  • Learn how to convert LnL into Dynamo or Titan Knuckle/Combo (with assist) so it's actually a threat.
  • Proper conversion for s.lk AA is s.lk, s.mp, s.hp, Run-Stop, OTG. With this, you don't have to worry about missing your follow-up because the opponent is too high.

Approach
  • Mix up ground approaches with short bursts of Run-Stop for the armour. You can try to go all the way and US if you can confirm it based on the situation (character throwing projectile during Run's start-up for example).

Edit: I'll work on updating this every weekend as new information is available in the thread. Maybe bits and pieces during the week (not going to be scheduled due to life priorities), but weekend is definite.
 
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Already good tips. Don't know if round starts count as neutral, but I like Titan Knuckle xx Excellabella to catch back dashes and jumps.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Already good tips. Don't know if round starts count as neutral, but I like Titan Knuckle xx Excellabella to catch back dashes and jumps.

The round begins at a neutral position, so yeah you can count that. I'm thinking a slightly delayed start unless you're playing a Peacock and want to jump right in, since the most popular tactic seems to be call invincible assist at the start of the round and jump back/forward. Maybe a delayed Titan knuckle or M/H LnL backed by a horizontal assist. I haven't made much use of it, but how good is c.HP now? How difficult is it to convert into Excellabella on a stray AA hit? Being able to Dynamo off of it now, I may go back to looking at it.
 
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Good stuff. As a low-level player, I appreciate learning these simple tactics that I can implement, or at least try to. Hopefully, the Neutral Game threads for other characters can follow this model.
My Cerebella is basically a Assistabella so all these little hints are helpful. The only one I used a lot was j.MP which I picked up from fighting rabid Filias and realizing it stuffed most of their approaches.

Stupid question time: what's the deal with LnL?
I read a lot of comments of how good it is and possibly one of the best assist choices for Bella but never quite figured out how to get the best of it.


It's none of my business but how about editing the OP with other tips (like the one Broseidon Rex gave) as they're posted?
Obviously the topic will extend to actual discussion over certain tactics but IMHO it would be helpful for beginners to have a extensive list of tactics to refer to.
 
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Balder said:
Good stuff. As a low-level player, I appreciate learning these simple tactics that I can implement, or at least try to. Hopefully, the Neutral Game threads for other characters can follow this model.
My Cerebella is basically a Assistabella so all these little hints are helpful. The only one I used a lot was j.MP which I picked up from fighting rabid Filias and realizing it stuffed most of their approaches.

Stupid question time: what's the deal with LnL?
I read a lot of comments of how good it is and possibly one of the best assist choices for Bella but never quite figured out how to get the best of it.


It's none of my business but how about editing the OP with other tips (like the one Broseidon Rex gave) as they're posted?
Obviously the topic will extend to actual discussion over certain tactics but IMHO it would be helpful for beginners to have a extensive list of tactics to refer to.

Good idea, I'll get on it. LnL is great for the armour and the fact that it's an assist that is difficult to stuff. So, with H (the most popular) you have two hits of armour on a move with good range that the opponent has to respect. It's also good for absorbing projectiles vs Peacock. If I'm missing anything, somebody chime in since Cerecopter is my preferred assist.

Vs Filia, I really like throwing out s.lk against her IAD shenanigans. It works really well and converts into a combo pretty easily.
 
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View619 said:
Reasons why H.LnL is good
I don't play teams, but from what I've seen, H.LnL also acts as a physical walls opponents have to jump over to get to a retreating character.
 
I never liked the fact that opponents could just jump LnL, but if you play a character with strong air-to-air options (an air grab she can convert off of and a fast air-to-air normal) then it should be fine. It's complete armoured, ground coverage. There are combos and resets you can do with it, but I'm more interested in focusing on the neutral game uses.
 
View619 said:
I never liked the fact that opponents could just jump LnL, but if you play a character with strong air-to-air options (an air grab she can convert off of and a fast air-to-air normal) then it should be fine. It's complete armoured, ground coverage. There are combos and resets you can do with it, but I'm more interested in focusing on the neutral game uses.

It's pants on head amazing for Painwheel. I actually prefer it to MK Hornet Bomber for neutral approaches (especially against projectiles), it's beautiful damage and unintrusive hit properties when used in the middle of combos, and sets up amazing crossups/resets. It can even be a great counter call for people (read: me) who aren't that concise with their calls against AA assists because of the armor.

I've tried a lot of the same applications with Big Band's rush punch, and it's just not the same. The damage is way crazier obviously, but I don't feel it has the same utility.

If I actually knew how to play Bella well enough to justify it, I'd replace Double and run it all day.
 
Yeah, I may have to look at what it does for resets because I'm pretty good with using Cerecopter to punish bad assist calls and Peacock projectiles usually give me whatever approach options I need. With Peacock's new air throw and PW's ability to zone somewhat with Nails, I may try it again though.
 
View619 said:
Yeah, I may have to look at what it does for resets because I'm pretty good with using Cerecopter to punish bad assist calls and Peacock projectiles usually give me whatever approach options I need. With Peacock's new air throw and PW's ability to zone somewhat with Nails, I may try it again though.

I haven't really messed with it in a while, but offhand do you know if the assist lockout will still apply when your assist is hit but their armor soaks the hit, i.e., they never go into actual hitstun?
 
hlvn said:
I haven't really messed with it in a while, but offhand do you know if the assist lockout will still apply when your assist is hit but their armor soaks the hit, i.e., they never go into actual hitstun?

Nah, that's something you would have to check.
 
Stuff about LNL you should take into consideration

because it absorbs a hit thanks to its armor, it doesn't suffer like other moves do thanks to hitstop. So like if I do LNL H and absorb the hit of a move with hitstop, you can just counter super afterwards.
Good vs parasoul pillar, Filia Updo and stuff like that ya kno
 
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How the hell do you deal with a Valentine, Fortune or Painwheel that's playing super evasive and just avoiding you until they can catch you whiffing a j.MP or something?

Cerebella's air-to-air conversions feel really weak. You can do j.MP all day but it doesn't really lead to any damage or pressure on-hit. Meanwhile if your opponent lands something air-to-air you're almost guaranteed to eat a combo into a mixup into another combo etc. The risk/reward is heavily in your opponent's favor. They can afford to run into 4 or 5 j.MP without much worry because when they get the hit, it can easily lead into a dead bella.

I've even tried to patiently walk my opponent into the corner but it doesn't seem to help all that much. Once they double-jump or fly into the air you're forced to chase with j.MP or they just get out, but at least in the corner Excellabella and j.MP xx j.HK work a lot better.
 
J.MP->J.hp to push the closer to the corner
That's it really. Fortune with head off you're not hitting, Val you need to hit her as she's landing somehow, painwheel you can excellebella sometimes.

Someone else can probably give their input I don't really depend on bella to hit those three alone
 
Could you maybe connect with a jMK to jHP, at least to knock them down and give you time to approach?
 
I mean j.mp-> j.hp does the same thing with a better hitbox to work with
But that's the idea yea
 
I'm thinking if the jMK, jHP may bring them back down to the ground while jHP alone would automatically give a knockdown. Not sure, will check tonight.
 
Just messing around in training mode. Seems like j.MP xx j.MK leaves you at frame advantage on block most of the time and works mid screen. I don't think it will lead into a combo or knockdown though.
 
J.Mp, J.Hp for knockdown and push to the corner is good enough. Nothing there to turn into an easy combo that I'm aware of, except maybe j.Lk, j.HK.
 
I've had times where I converted a j.mp to c.mp, but I think they were close to the ground those times.
 
Yeah that happens when they're closer to the ground
trust me though no1 wants to get hit by j.hp and deal with bella close to the corner. :O
 
plenty of times i buffer the j.HP after j.MP and im pretty sure that you can actually combo j.MP anti air >glide>j.HP.

you can kinda use it as a mixup either go for the double overhead or just forget the J.HP and go straight for the low.
 
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