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So there's been talk of making a painwheel compendium thread like a lot of the other character's have, but it seems like nobody is able to fully commit to putting it all together, so I figured it would be a good starting point to at least have a thread dedicated to discussion and collaboration. From here, we can work on individual sections and get the ball rolling.
This is NOT the Compendium, but just a working draft that can be edited and added to before finalizing a thread to be stickied.
Based on what I've been seeing in the other threads, and other compendiums, a solid list of topics to cover would be:
- General info - Dime_X
- Movement - Spencer
- Normals - dMags
- Specials - dMags
- Supers - dMags
- Combos
- Resets
- Burst Baits
- Assist options
- Okizeme
- Characters specific stuff
A name next to the section means someone is already typing up a draft for it. If there is anything else, please feel free to comment below. I'll do my best to keep this first post up-to-date
This is NOT the Compendium, but just a working draft that can be edited and added to before finalizing a thread to be stickied.
Based on what I've been seeing in the other threads, and other compendiums, a solid list of topics to cover would be:
- General info - Dime_X
Overview:
Painwheel is a highly mobile, high corner damage character that hitconfirms exceptionally well and gets great damage by baiting pushblocks with fly attacks. She can reset and do mixups from just about anywhere in her combo strings that she wants and she has high priority long ranged neutral game tools such as her j.mp aerial normal and her projectile stingers that she can use to battle other non zoning characters with from afar. Her st.mk is a very high priority tool to use on the ground as a far anti air or as an attack directly after a dash to get in.
Weaknesses:
Painwheels ability to convert off of regular dp assists such as updo and pillar and mk bomber, is weak when outside the corner. And most first hits, will be outside the corner... So the most powerful assists in the game arent something that pw can use "well" with regard to confirming.
Painwheel has no great midrange air to air, shes all j.mp which is a slow long ranged attack, or shes j.hk/j.lk/j.lp which are all short ranged and kinda slow and bad hitboxes. Her j.mk is the closest attack she has to really be a mid ranged air to air, but it loses to basically everything else that opposing characters would do at the same range, case in point it loses to bellas j.mp because of bellas disjointed hitboxes and it loses to parasouls j.lp because of the speed difference, and loses to most other midrange air to airs because of one of those things.
She has probably the bar none worst reversal in the game, but since its still a reversal it is still good in the right situations, but still, in most situations it is pretty bad... And for meter, no less.
Painwheel is slow in ability to move just about anywhere quickly. Her dash has tremendous startup (though visually it doesnt telegraph itself so there's always that) and her flight also has lots of startup.
Painwheels rote flight overheads are react blockable rather easily, making her mixup game lack fear factor and strong starters without mucho conditioning of the opponent.
Painwheels starters in general suffer horrible scaling, her j.hk hits 6 times, whereas her j.mp hits 4 times, her other prime combo starters are her throws, which scale damage by 50%. So you can crossup with j.hk into a scaled combo, or you can throw into a scaled combo. Her standard unscaled optimal starters are j.mk and cr.lk or cr.mk. But with her flight overheads being react blockable it is unlikely that you will be opening the opponent up with either of these as a form of high/low mixup. Moral of the story being that strong starters are hard to come by, and the scaling can be horrendous, some combos drop 1500-2000 damage just for starting them with j.hk.
Painwheels grounded normals are very short range and stubby in general.
Painwheel has no exceptionally powerful assist because her most powerful moves arent allowed to be assists (armor attacks and nail charges)
Before i go into strengths id like to mention one of painwheels prime strengths when considering her in relation to her peers. Its been observed, for good reason that pw doesnt really standout in any category as being the best in it, and she isnt really an all around character either... Which is how i used to think until i realized that there is a category where she is "more than likely" the best in the game:
Hitconfirming. Its a hard category to acknowledge pw as best in when so many characters in sg excel at it or at the very least cant really be considered "weak" at it. But pw takes things a step further. She can meterlessly confirm all of her throws (front back and air) she has easy j.mp air to air confirms. She has j.lp,j.lk,j.mk air to air confirms. She has j.hp air to air confirms (not easy but doable with practice and spacing/character dependent) and she has easy ground confirms, she has armor confirms off of cr.hp, st.hp, cr.mp and sweep. Painwheel is a hitconfirm beast. If there is anything that can be said that she really excels at... Its hitconfirms.
Oh and the reason for learning that pw has better hitconfirms than most other characters, is to learn how to pick better assists for her. Because with her having such good hitconfirms, there becomes less reason to be able to confirm from dp assists and the like (unless going for stacking synergy which is to stack strengths on top of each other in order to change the strengths from strong to near op, like giving bella a command grab assist, or giving peacock a projectile assist) for painwheel a stacking synergy would be something like beat extend L since it offers a hitconfirm from a place that pw doesnt easily get them, invincible ground moves.
But in pws case i feel like it might be better to go for opposite synergies, aka synergies that seek to diminish faults rather than synergies that seek to pump up strengths.
Here again beat extend L makes its presence known by shoring up painwheels weaker reversal options, so it gives her Both a stacking (attacking in this case) synergy and a defensive synergy... So obviously its super good for pw... HOWEVER:
H brass assist also stacks with certain painwheel strengths and weaknesses, it doesnt stack with her hitconfirm strength though (outside the corner) but it makes up for one of her biggest weaknesses... Ability to get in, and ability to deal with peacock. After that its still good as a damage assist in both highly scaled hitconfirm combos, and combos that start with optimal moves. And its also a great counter assist that does ridiculous damage to the opponents assist when painwheel baits one out on wiff. For this reason i believe brass to be the better overall choice for pw. Though i also believe that beat extend is godlike. Personally my preference is to use brass against any team with peacock on it, and beat extend against teams without it.
So on to the rest of the strengths:
Hitconfirms from basically anything and damn near anywhere.
On the higher end of the damage spectrum with her corner combos.
Can vary her reset points greatly because of flight, she can basically go for a reset just about anywhere.
Her flight movement allows her to evade most ground pressure that other characters have to deal with.
She controls huge amounts of screen with fully charged hp stingers and can easily set up her own offense with them if she finds places to put them in her game.
She can charge her stingers and flight cancel them before they come out, as a fake, allowing her to go offensive against people that try to rush her down before she gets a max charge.
She has a plethora of ways to use unfly to bait disadvantage on block anti air things and to go offensive relatively safely via calling an assist
Buer thresher is one of the best aerial reversals in the game.
Can air armor through obvious one hit reversal attacks such as pillar or updo.
If pw is in armor, she can reversal most supers after they recover from superfreeze because armor doesnt get affected by superfreeze hitstop.
She can very easily bait pushblock with her flight cancels, which can give her opportunities for strong starters as opposed to scaled ones.
She is great at baiting wiffed assists.
Painwheel is a highly mobile, high corner damage character that hitconfirms exceptionally well and gets great damage by baiting pushblocks with fly attacks. She can reset and do mixups from just about anywhere in her combo strings that she wants and she has high priority long ranged neutral game tools such as her j.mp aerial normal and her projectile stingers that she can use to battle other non zoning characters with from afar. Her st.mk is a very high priority tool to use on the ground as a far anti air or as an attack directly after a dash to get in.
Weaknesses:
Painwheels ability to convert off of regular dp assists such as updo and pillar and mk bomber, is weak when outside the corner. And most first hits, will be outside the corner... So the most powerful assists in the game arent something that pw can use "well" with regard to confirming.
Painwheel has no great midrange air to air, shes all j.mp which is a slow long ranged attack, or shes j.hk/j.lk/j.lp which are all short ranged and kinda slow and bad hitboxes. Her j.mk is the closest attack she has to really be a mid ranged air to air, but it loses to basically everything else that opposing characters would do at the same range, case in point it loses to bellas j.mp because of bellas disjointed hitboxes and it loses to parasouls j.lp because of the speed difference, and loses to most other midrange air to airs because of one of those things.
She has probably the bar none worst reversal in the game, but since its still a reversal it is still good in the right situations, but still, in most situations it is pretty bad... And for meter, no less.
Painwheel is slow in ability to move just about anywhere quickly. Her dash has tremendous startup (though visually it doesnt telegraph itself so there's always that) and her flight also has lots of startup.
Painwheels rote flight overheads are react blockable rather easily, making her mixup game lack fear factor and strong starters without mucho conditioning of the opponent.
Painwheels starters in general suffer horrible scaling, her j.hk hits 6 times, whereas her j.mp hits 4 times, her other prime combo starters are her throws, which scale damage by 50%. So you can crossup with j.hk into a scaled combo, or you can throw into a scaled combo. Her standard unscaled optimal starters are j.mk and cr.lk or cr.mk. But with her flight overheads being react blockable it is unlikely that you will be opening the opponent up with either of these as a form of high/low mixup. Moral of the story being that strong starters are hard to come by, and the scaling can be horrendous, some combos drop 1500-2000 damage just for starting them with j.hk.
Painwheels grounded normals are very short range and stubby in general.
Painwheel has no exceptionally powerful assist because her most powerful moves arent allowed to be assists (armor attacks and nail charges)
Before i go into strengths id like to mention one of painwheels prime strengths when considering her in relation to her peers. Its been observed, for good reason that pw doesnt really standout in any category as being the best in it, and she isnt really an all around character either... Which is how i used to think until i realized that there is a category where she is "more than likely" the best in the game:
Hitconfirming. Its a hard category to acknowledge pw as best in when so many characters in sg excel at it or at the very least cant really be considered "weak" at it. But pw takes things a step further. She can meterlessly confirm all of her throws (front back and air) she has easy j.mp air to air confirms. She has j.lp,j.lk,j.mk air to air confirms. She has j.hp air to air confirms (not easy but doable with practice and spacing/character dependent) and she has easy ground confirms, she has armor confirms off of cr.hp, st.hp, cr.mp and sweep. Painwheel is a hitconfirm beast. If there is anything that can be said that she really excels at... Its hitconfirms.
Oh and the reason for learning that pw has better hitconfirms than most other characters, is to learn how to pick better assists for her. Because with her having such good hitconfirms, there becomes less reason to be able to confirm from dp assists and the like (unless going for stacking synergy which is to stack strengths on top of each other in order to change the strengths from strong to near op, like giving bella a command grab assist, or giving peacock a projectile assist) for painwheel a stacking synergy would be something like beat extend L since it offers a hitconfirm from a place that pw doesnt easily get them, invincible ground moves.
But in pws case i feel like it might be better to go for opposite synergies, aka synergies that seek to diminish faults rather than synergies that seek to pump up strengths.
Here again beat extend L makes its presence known by shoring up painwheels weaker reversal options, so it gives her Both a stacking (attacking in this case) synergy and a defensive synergy... So obviously its super good for pw... HOWEVER:
H brass assist also stacks with certain painwheel strengths and weaknesses, it doesnt stack with her hitconfirm strength though (outside the corner) but it makes up for one of her biggest weaknesses... Ability to get in, and ability to deal with peacock. After that its still good as a damage assist in both highly scaled hitconfirm combos, and combos that start with optimal moves. And its also a great counter assist that does ridiculous damage to the opponents assist when painwheel baits one out on wiff. For this reason i believe brass to be the better overall choice for pw. Though i also believe that beat extend is godlike. Personally my preference is to use brass against any team with peacock on it, and beat extend against teams without it.
So on to the rest of the strengths:
Hitconfirms from basically anything and damn near anywhere.
On the higher end of the damage spectrum with her corner combos.
Can vary her reset points greatly because of flight, she can basically go for a reset just about anywhere.
Her flight movement allows her to evade most ground pressure that other characters have to deal with.
She controls huge amounts of screen with fully charged hp stingers and can easily set up her own offense with them if she finds places to put them in her game.
She can charge her stingers and flight cancel them before they come out, as a fake, allowing her to go offensive against people that try to rush her down before she gets a max charge.
She has a plethora of ways to use unfly to bait disadvantage on block anti air things and to go offensive relatively safely via calling an assist
Buer thresher is one of the best aerial reversals in the game.
Can air armor through obvious one hit reversal attacks such as pillar or updo.
If pw is in armor, she can reversal most supers after they recover from superfreeze because armor doesnt get affected by superfreeze hitstop.
She can very easily bait pushblock with her flight cancels, which can give her opportunities for strong starters as opposed to scaled ones.
She is great at baiting wiffed assists.
- Normals - dMags
Painwheel has a wide variety of normals at her disposal, consisting of damaging single-hit attacks, multi-hit attacks, the ability to stagger, crumple, and ground-bounce opponents. Although her normals are not the fastest in the game, they can pack a punch and can be extremely effective when used at the right moment. Painwheel is also the only character in the game to have Armored Normals ( referred to as 'Hatred Guard' ), which will absorb a number of attacks and can be activated by holding down the desired button and "charging" the normal. However, not all of her moves have armor. Some of her normals also gain additional properties when fully "charged".
s.lp
One of the slower jabs in the game, and painwheel's shortest reaching light attack. Can absorb 1 hit when charged.
s.mp
Painwheel does a standing uppercut while large spikes erupt from her forearm, launching her opponent into the air. One of painwheel's two launchers, this attack is very useful and is easier to chain into than her other launcher. This move can absorb 2 hits, and will auto-correct if an absorbed attack was a cross-up. This is very useful when the opponent is attacking from directly above you.
s.hp
Very far reaching heavy attack that does excellent damage. This move can absorb 3 hits, and when fully charged will do additional damage as well as causing Stagger.
s.lk
Painwheel's most damaging light attack, but also tied for the slowest startup. This move does not have any armor.
s.mk
Painwheel flings her legs forward as spikes burst from her legs all the way to her feet. This is an interesting move as it lifts the opponent off of the ground as it hits them, and can also be used to anti-air the opponent during neutral. This move can absorb 2 hits.
s.hk
Painwheel's 2nd, and also multi-hitting, launcher. With the grace of a gymnast, Painwheel will thrust her leg up and towards her body, only to then brutally bend her kneecap backwards revealing yet another spike. This launcher hits 3 times and the opponent is lifted from the ground immediately after the 1st hit, which can be very useful in resets and confusing your opponent. This move does not have any armor.
f+hk
Painwheel utilizes her large metal blade and sends it thrusting into the ground in front of her. On whiff, block, or hit, she can thrust the blade up to 3 more times by pressing HK. The 4th and final hit produces a ground bounce. This move does not have any armor.
cr.lp
SImilar to the standing version, with slightly farther reach. This move can absorb 1 hit.
cr.mp
Painwheel crouches down and spins her fan blade towards the opponent. Despite the appearance, this move does not hit low, but does cover a good area in front of Painwheel as well as a small area above her. This move hits 4 times, and can absorb 2 hits.
cr.hp
With all the pain bottled up inside, Carol simply can't take it and angrily punches the ground in front of her as a spike protrudes from her arm. A very useful normal, as it does produce a ground bounce on hit and does slightly more damage than the standing version. This move can absorb 3 hits and, when fully charged, will do more damage, cause a crumple state, and becomes an overhead. It is also worth noting that this move will cause a higher ground bounce when hitting an airborne opponent, and charging amplifies this effect.
cr.lk
One of the best low's in the game, and Painwheel's furthest reaching light attack by a mile. This will most likely be your go-to combo starter, as it has amazing reach for a character of painwheel's size. This move does not have any armor.
cr.mk
The newest addition to Painwheel's list of normals that hit Low, this single-hitting attack does good damage and is extremely common in Painwheel's BnB's. Not quite as far reaching as her cr.lk, but more powerful and now has more use as a low reset tool. This move does not have any armor.
cr.hk
Crouched and ready to pounce, Painwheel sweeps her fan blade above the ground in front of her. Painwheel's sweep is one of the best in the game, as it has very good reach for her size and will produce a red bounce when fully charged. When used without charge, this move will produce a blue bounce like all other sweeps. In addition to the red bounce, Painwheel also deals more damage when fully charged and will cause a slight vacuum effect pulling the opponent in closer, rather than pushing them away on hit. This move can absorb 2 hits.
j.lp
Painwheel's fastest air normal, although having the shortest reach, a few spikes emerge directly in front of Painwheel. This single hitting attack can have plenty of use in combos, resets, burst baits, and even some air-to-air situations. This move does not have any armor.
j.mp
One of Painwheel's most commonly used air normals, Painwheel will quickly reel back and send her fan blade spinning directly in front of her. For a total of 4 hits, this move is extremely useful in neutral game and approaching your opponent, and can rip through armor moves as well. This move does not have any armor.
j.hp
SImilar to j.mp, Painwheel will also reel herself back and get ready to lunge forward with her spinning blade. This time around, Painwheel's fan blade will be slightly above her as opposed to directly in front, and she's able to charge up the attack. This is Painwheel's only air normal that can be charged. Another unique property to this move is that is changes Painwheel's trajectory in air, basically stopping her in place during startup and then sending her flying forward much quicker than usual. Normally, this move will hit for a total of 4 times, but when fully charged can deal a total of 6 hits for more damage. This move can absorb 1 hit.
j.lk
Similar to j.lp, Painwheel sticks a few spikes out in front of her from her knee caps. This time the spikes are a little bit further below Painwheel and reach a tad further forward. This move does not have any armor.
j.mk
A single hitting attack, Painwheel kicks her leg diagonally down and towards the opponent, revealing a spike from her heal. This move is very useful in combos and provides a ton of hit-stun to work with. This move does not have any armor.
j.hk
Like the beautiful swan that she is, Painwheel flips herself upside down and spins her fan blade furiously against her protruding spikes. The result? A blender-like normal with an exceptionally deceiving hitbox. Although the fan blade spins near the middle of Painwheel, the hitbox on this normal extends well below and in front of her, covering about 50% of the sparks that are produced. This move also stops Painwheel's momentum, affecting her trajectory. This move does not have any armor.
s.lp
One of the slower jabs in the game, and painwheel's shortest reaching light attack. Can absorb 1 hit when charged.
s.mp
Painwheel does a standing uppercut while large spikes erupt from her forearm, launching her opponent into the air. One of painwheel's two launchers, this attack is very useful and is easier to chain into than her other launcher. This move can absorb 2 hits, and will auto-correct if an absorbed attack was a cross-up. This is very useful when the opponent is attacking from directly above you.
s.hp
Very far reaching heavy attack that does excellent damage. This move can absorb 3 hits, and when fully charged will do additional damage as well as causing Stagger.
s.lk
Painwheel's most damaging light attack, but also tied for the slowest startup. This move does not have any armor.
s.mk
Painwheel flings her legs forward as spikes burst from her legs all the way to her feet. This is an interesting move as it lifts the opponent off of the ground as it hits them, and can also be used to anti-air the opponent during neutral. This move can absorb 2 hits.
s.hk
Painwheel's 2nd, and also multi-hitting, launcher. With the grace of a gymnast, Painwheel will thrust her leg up and towards her body, only to then brutally bend her kneecap backwards revealing yet another spike. This launcher hits 3 times and the opponent is lifted from the ground immediately after the 1st hit, which can be very useful in resets and confusing your opponent. This move does not have any armor.
f+hk
Painwheel utilizes her large metal blade and sends it thrusting into the ground in front of her. On whiff, block, or hit, she can thrust the blade up to 3 more times by pressing HK. The 4th and final hit produces a ground bounce. This move does not have any armor.
cr.lp
SImilar to the standing version, with slightly farther reach. This move can absorb 1 hit.
cr.mp
Painwheel crouches down and spins her fan blade towards the opponent. Despite the appearance, this move does not hit low, but does cover a good area in front of Painwheel as well as a small area above her. This move hits 4 times, and can absorb 2 hits.
cr.hp
With all the pain bottled up inside, Carol simply can't take it and angrily punches the ground in front of her as a spike protrudes from her arm. A very useful normal, as it does produce a ground bounce on hit and does slightly more damage than the standing version. This move can absorb 3 hits and, when fully charged, will do more damage, cause a crumple state, and becomes an overhead. It is also worth noting that this move will cause a higher ground bounce when hitting an airborne opponent, and charging amplifies this effect.
cr.lk
One of the best low's in the game, and Painwheel's furthest reaching light attack by a mile. This will most likely be your go-to combo starter, as it has amazing reach for a character of painwheel's size. This move does not have any armor.
cr.mk
The newest addition to Painwheel's list of normals that hit Low, this single-hitting attack does good damage and is extremely common in Painwheel's BnB's. Not quite as far reaching as her cr.lk, but more powerful and now has more use as a low reset tool. This move does not have any armor.
cr.hk
Crouched and ready to pounce, Painwheel sweeps her fan blade above the ground in front of her. Painwheel's sweep is one of the best in the game, as it has very good reach for her size and will produce a red bounce when fully charged. When used without charge, this move will produce a blue bounce like all other sweeps. In addition to the red bounce, Painwheel also deals more damage when fully charged and will cause a slight vacuum effect pulling the opponent in closer, rather than pushing them away on hit. This move can absorb 2 hits.
j.lp
Painwheel's fastest air normal, although having the shortest reach, a few spikes emerge directly in front of Painwheel. This single hitting attack can have plenty of use in combos, resets, burst baits, and even some air-to-air situations. This move does not have any armor.
j.mp
One of Painwheel's most commonly used air normals, Painwheel will quickly reel back and send her fan blade spinning directly in front of her. For a total of 4 hits, this move is extremely useful in neutral game and approaching your opponent, and can rip through armor moves as well. This move does not have any armor.
j.hp
SImilar to j.mp, Painwheel will also reel herself back and get ready to lunge forward with her spinning blade. This time around, Painwheel's fan blade will be slightly above her as opposed to directly in front, and she's able to charge up the attack. This is Painwheel's only air normal that can be charged. Another unique property to this move is that is changes Painwheel's trajectory in air, basically stopping her in place during startup and then sending her flying forward much quicker than usual. Normally, this move will hit for a total of 4 times, but when fully charged can deal a total of 6 hits for more damage. This move can absorb 1 hit.
j.lk
Similar to j.lp, Painwheel sticks a few spikes out in front of her from her knee caps. This time the spikes are a little bit further below Painwheel and reach a tad further forward. This move does not have any armor.
j.mk
A single hitting attack, Painwheel kicks her leg diagonally down and towards the opponent, revealing a spike from her heal. This move is very useful in combos and provides a ton of hit-stun to work with. This move does not have any armor.
j.hk
Like the beautiful swan that she is, Painwheel flips herself upside down and spins her fan blade furiously against her protruding spikes. The result? A blender-like normal with an exceptionally deceiving hitbox. Although the fan blade spins near the middle of Painwheel, the hitbox on this normal extends well below and in front of her, covering about 50% of the sparks that are produced. This move also stops Painwheel's momentum, affecting her trajectory. This move does not have any armor.
- Supers - dMags
- Combos
- Resets
- Burst Baits
- Assist options
- Okizeme
- Characters specific stuff
A name next to the section means someone is already typing up a draft for it. If there is anything else, please feel free to comment below. I'll do my best to keep this first post up-to-date
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